Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 749
    I liked Reynard in concept, just not the execution.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,098
    I guess that's the problem with this thread in a way though: we can all say 'I want a film as iconic as Goldfinger and as exciting as TSWLM' but that's much easier said than done! :)
  • I think some people are moreso expecting the next film to be as good/successful as Casino Royale was.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 749
    Oh, undoubtedly.

    And whilst it is easy to be clever in hindsight, a lot of ideas that didn’t work probably would have worked with a certain amount of fine-tuning. I think there is often a really great Bond film lurking in some of the franchise’s weaker entries, had things been done a little differently.
  • Posts: 1,560
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess that's the problem with this thread in a way though: we can all say 'I want a film as iconic as Goldfinger and as exciting as TSWLM' but that's much easier said than done! :)

    Why so hard?

    Agree Goldfinger is iconic. But I've never considered TSWLM exciting.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,098
    Oh, undoubtedly.

    And whilst it is easy to be clever in hindsight, a lot of ideas that didn’t work probably would have worked with a certain amount of fine-tuning. I think there is often a really great Bond film lurking in some of the franchise’s weaker entries, had things been done a little differently.

    Yes, it's true. TWINE is a decent example, I think. The story is interesting and fresh and has good and quite exciting ideas: if it were a Bond novel brought out by Benson or Horowitz we'd be demanding a movie adaptation. But for me something just falls apart in the making and I find it all a bit dull and lacking in style. Michael Apted was an odd choice, really.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Not a red herring
    edited September 2023 Posts: 567
    mtm wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Do you think they'll ever return to the classic formula?

    • Car chases
    • One-liners
    • Three "Bond girl" candidates
    • Excentric villain who has a hidden secret lair
    • Superhuman henchman
    • Over-the-top gadgets
    • Exotic locations
    • Action-packed sequences

    *Optional

    You could argue we got all of them with NTTD, aside from the superhuman henchman, although Primo had a bionic eye.

    Yes indeed, although for me something like Skyfall or CR just feels more like a Bond film than NTTD does. So I don't think it's about a checklist.

    Apart from the superhuman henchman, I think CR and SF have all those elements between them. Although you could argue Sébastien Foucan is pretty superhuman.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    edited September 2023 Posts: 749
    Yeah, it bores me rigid and just feels incredibly underwhelming. Good ideas though, it just didn’t work on screen.

    I often look at films that don’t work and feel that if I was a movie exec I might well have green-lit the thing expecting it to be a hit. As they say, it’s an art not a science.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,098
    Yeah, it bores me rigid and just feels incredibly underwhelming. Good ideas though, it just didn’t work on screen.

    I often look at films that don’t work and feel that if I was a movie exec I might well have green-lit the thing expecting it to be a hit. As they say, it’s an art not a science.

    Yeah absolutely. I even think that with Spectre: it's full of good bits and I think the script probably reads like a good Bond film, but it just.. isn't. And I couldn't even really tell you why.
    I prefer it to TWINE though!
  • Posts: 1,719
    I don't think the "checklist" matters much if the next film, in general, is not hitting on all cylinders. I still think the franchise is hampered by "the powers that be" because their storytelling chops are not the best. At this point, the further adventures of 007 will take an extraordinary (or lucky) team of film makers to re-invent Bond for the next generation audience to generate box office gold or a cultural phenomenon like Barbie. Wait.....................Maybe Bond can team up with Barbie in the next film.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Not a red herring
    Posts: 567
    delfloria wrote: »
    I don't think the "checklist" matters much if the next film, in general, is not hitting on all cylinders. I still think the franchise is hampered by "the powers that be" because their storytelling chops are not the best. At this point, the further adventures of 007 will take an extraordinary (or lucky) team of film makers to re-invent Bond for the next generation audience to generate box office gold or a cultural phenomenon like Barbie. Wait.....................Maybe Bond can team up with Barbie in the next film.

    Yes, I think approaching each film with a shopping list of requirements is a bad idea. I guess the challenge is finding new ways to push the boundaries of the formula while still staying true to the core of what a Bond film is.

    It relates to what I said earlier about CR and how it's viewed as being the formula-breaking Bond film when it actually has a lot of the same elements we expect, it just twists them in more obvious and (arguably) more creative ways, which, if you ask me, is no bad thing.
  • Posts: 1,719
    delfloria wrote: »
    I don't think the "checklist" matters much if the next film, in general, is not hitting on all cylinders. I still think the franchise is hampered by "the powers that be" because their storytelling chops are not the best. At this point, the further adventures of 007 will take an extraordinary (or lucky) team of film makers to re-invent Bond for the next generation audience to generate box office gold or a cultural phenomenon like Barbie. Wait.....................Maybe Bond can team up with Barbie in the next film.

    Yes, I think approaching each film with a shopping list of requirements is a bad idea. I guess the challenge is finding new ways to push the boundaries of the formula while still staying true to the core of what a Bond film is.

    It relates to what I said earlier about CR and how it's viewed as being the formula-breaking Bond film when it actually has a lot of the same elements we expect, it just twists them in more obvious and (arguably) more creative ways, which, if you ask me, is no bad thing.

    Not a bad thing at all. I mentioned several pages back that even creating a THRILLER in the style of Oppenhiemer under Nolan's guidance would shake things up.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,393
    CrabKey wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess that's the problem with this thread in a way though: we can all say 'I want a film as iconic as Goldfinger and as exciting as TSWLM' but that's much easier said than done! :)

    Why so hard?

    Agree Goldfinger is iconic. But I've never considered TSWLM exciting.

    Indeed, it drags on subsequent rewatches, the wooden acting of some cast (I'm including Moore himself in there) doesn't helped either.

    If anything, Moonraker and Octopussy are far more exciting Bond films for me, compared to TSWLM (if we're talking Moore Bond films).


    Anyway, folks of MI6Community, if you could choose for the next Bond Era, which one you prefer? Play It Safe or Experimental?

    (Sounding a bit like @thedove in here 😅)

    A.) If play it safe, it would be a Bond film full of Bond elements, just a classic, back to basics adventure.

    B.) If experimental, it would be exploring some things that never done before in a Bond film (the Craig Era being an example of this), experimenting unusual things if they're going to fit in a Bond film, it's different.

    Which one do you prefer?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,098
    Experimental for me; I’ve seen all the old films.
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,896
    mtm wrote: »
    Experimental for me; I’ve seen all the old films.

    Yep same. In order to survive, Bond has to adapt and change, whilst staying the same.
    It's a very complicated thing to get right.
  • Posts: 6,677
    There’s a ballance, I think.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 749
    classic

    I'd like to see them do a film without any high-concept crutch to lean on, just focus on doing the basics really well.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,098
    Have they been doing ‘high concept crutches’? Just seems like stories to me.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 749
    mtm wrote: »
    Have they been doing ‘high concept crutches’? Just seems like stories to me.

    Sure they have: we've had Bond before he's Bond, grieving revenge-driven Bond, past-it Bond, Bond meets long lost evil Brother responsible for everything in the last three movies, and finally retired Bond. It's not that they're all bad by any means, but as I've said before, imo you want a steady rhythm that you break occasionally, not 'this time it's different, and nothing will ever be the same again'. I'd like to see them make Bond going on a 'standard' mission work.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited September 2023 Posts: 2,529
    mtm wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Do you think they'll ever return to the classic formula?

    • Car chases
    • One-liners
    • Three "Bond girl" candidates
    • Excentric villain who has a hidden secret lair
    • Superhuman henchman
    • Over-the-top gadgets
    • Exotic locations
    • Action-packed sequences

    *Optional

    You could argue we got all of them with NTTD, aside from the superhuman henchman, although Primo had a bionic eye.

    Yes indeed, although for me something like Skyfall or CR just feels more like a Bond film than NTTD does. So I don't think it's about a checklist.

    Yeah same for me mate.

    Personally I'm glad when some of the checklist doesn't appear in a film to be honest, espicially the humour, over the top gadgets and superhuman henchman.
    Grounded Bond is always my favourite
  • Posts: 6,677
    I think GE had the right balance.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,529
    peter wrote: »
    That's concerning news. Hope it resolves itself quickly for your industry mate.
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 15,851
    After 2 decades of the Craig era in which experimental somewhat became the norm, "playing it safe" might seem experimental now.
    IMO, the problem with attempting to play it safe with the tried and true formula is that most of the talent that made those classic films are long gone. It would be new talent essentially trying to replicate the classic formula and therefore may have an unnatural result.
    Considering the gaps now, I really do believe the next film could be a one and done. So I'd like an even balance of formula, yet bringing something fresh to the table.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,098
    mtm wrote: »
    Have they been doing ‘high concept crutches’? Just seems like stories to me.

    Sure they have: we've had Bond before he's Bond, grieving revenge-driven Bond, past-it Bond, Bond meets long lost evil Brother responsible for everything in the last three movies, and finally retired Bond. It's not that they're all bad by any means, but as I've said before, imo you want a steady rhythm that you break occasionally, not 'this time it's different, and nothing will ever be the same again'. I'd like to see them make Bond going on a 'standard' mission work.

    I guess.. I mean a lot of those are similar to plotlines in the books.. I don't know if I'd call OHMSS a 'high concept crutch' of a movie; it's just a story about Bond.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 749
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Have they been doing ‘high concept crutches’? Just seems like stories to me.

    Sure they have: we've had Bond before he's Bond, grieving revenge-driven Bond, past-it Bond, Bond meets long lost evil Brother responsible for everything in the last three movies, and finally retired Bond. It's not that they're all bad by any means, but as I've said before, imo you want a steady rhythm that you break occasionally, not 'this time it's different, and nothing will ever be the same again'. I'd like to see them make Bond going on a 'standard' mission work.

    I guess.. I mean a lot of those are similar to plotlines in the books.. I don't know if I'd call OHMSS a 'high concept crutch' of a movie; it's just a story about Bond.

    You seem to be missing my point - OHMSS was a big, personal story breaking the rhythm of standard missions briefly before going back to mission-driven stories; at the moment we've got nothing but these non-standard missions with big personal themes and revelations, and there's a limit to how many times you can make these big reveals before it gets stupid.

    I'd like a good, solid mission-driven story with no big personal revelations before we move on to the next deeply personal epic about Spectre resurrecting Bond's parents as zombie killers in order to assassinate Bond's old nanny/first girlfriend while Bond is saddled with an AI wingman.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    edited September 2023 Posts: 996
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Have they been doing ‘high concept crutches’? Just seems like stories to me.

    Sure they have: we've had Bond before he's Bond, grieving revenge-driven Bond, past-it Bond, Bond meets long lost evil Brother responsible for everything in the last three movies, and finally retired Bond. It's not that they're all bad by any means, but as I've said before, imo you want a steady rhythm that you break occasionally, not 'this time it's different, and nothing will ever be the same again'. I'd like to see them make Bond going on a 'standard' mission work.

    I guess.. I mean a lot of those are similar to plotlines in the books.. I don't know if I'd call OHMSS a 'high concept crutch' of a movie; it's just a story about Bond.

    You seem to be missing my point - OHMSS was a big, personal story breaking the rhythm of standard missions briefly before going back to mission-driven stories; at the moment we've got nothing but these non-standard missions with big personal themes and revelations, and there's a limit to how many times you can make these big reveals before it gets stupid.

    I'd like a good, solid mission-driven story with no big personal revelations before we move on to the next deeply personal epic about Spectre resurrecting Bond's parents as zombie killers in order to assassinate Bond's old nanny/first girlfriend while Bond is saddled with an AI wingman.

    Sounds like one of those unlicensed Canadian Bond novels.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 996
    Besides, some time ago, i heard that Young Bond autor Charlie Higson said that the best Bond movies now ate the Mission Impossible film series, which made me think, should the next Bond films take inspiration from them? Or not?
    (Source: "Best Bond Films Now Are Mission: Impossibles": No Time To Do Die Gets ... https://screenrant.com/no-time-to-die-movie-young-james-bond-author-review-response/)
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,393
    Besides, some time ago, i heard that Young Bond autor Charlie Higson said that the best Bond movies now ate the Mission Impossible film series, which made me think, should the next Bond films take inspiration from them? Or not?
    (Source: "Best Bond Films Now Are Mission: Impossibles": No Time To Do Die Gets ... https://screenrant.com/no-time-to-die-movie-young-james-bond-author-review-response/)

    I don't want to pop the bubble on you, but it's already an old news.
    And not surprising either.

    It's already a same old story about "Mission Impossible now does it better than Bond".
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,616
    I’ve just never bought this: x-film franchise does Bond better than Bond thing the media does every few years.

    Bond is Bond and rises are falls based off the expectations of 60 years of adventures where they’ve been able to recreate, regenerate and resurrect over and over.

    When another film series lasts 60 plus years and remains vital and valuable to the film industry and pop culture, then I’ll take notice.
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