Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,393
    Mallory wrote: »
    It’s about the emotional connection and resonance for me.

    WHATTITW was written specifically for Bond and Tracey, and was so effective at being that, when I hear it, emotionally my mind goes to their relationship and the events of the film.

    Plus, it never reappeared until NTTD, a 50 year gap, by which point I would argue it is safe to argue that it’s use is purely for them.

    Which is why when I hear it applied to Bond and Madeline, my mind goes “hang on, that isn’t right”.

    Perhaps I am explaining my feelings a bit ham fistedly but in essence, it’s the emotional response by me as a viewer to it, that makes it’s use in NTTD very awkward.

    I agree with you.
    It doesn't sit right with me too.
  • I too dislike the blatant callbacks to Majesty’s that are littered throughout NTTD honestly. Everything from the use of ‘We Have All The Time In The World’, to the use of the Majesty’s theme during Bond’s meeting with M. I can understand why those may tick some people’s boxes, but for me it’s the exact same type of annoying fan-service that’s littered throughout Die Another Day, and I find it just as distracting in NTTD, if not more so. Plus, whatever emotions the filmmakers try to evoke by the use of Armstrong’s classic tune is completely lost on me because I feel absolutely zero connection to Bond and Madeline’s relationship, which admittedly is more a fault of the previous film, but still unconvincing to me in NTTD. In the end, all the callbacks in Majesty’s only accomplished one thing for me; making me want to go watch Majesty’s again.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,393
    I too dislike the blatant callbacks to Majesty’s that are littered throughout NTTD honestly. Everything from the use of ‘We Have All The Time In The World’, to the use of the Majesty’s theme during Bond’s meeting with M. I can understand why those may tick some people’s boxes, but for me it’s the exact same type of annoying fan-service that’s littered throughout Die Another Day, and I find it just as distracting in NTTD, if not more so. Plus, whatever emotions the filmmakers try to evoke by the use of Armstrong’s classic tune is completely lost on me because I feel absolutely zero connection to Bond and Madeline’s relationship, which admittedly is more a fault of the previous film, but still unconvincing to me in NTTD. In the end, all the callbacks in Majesty’s only accomplished one thing for me; making me want to go watch Majesty’s again.

    Yes! Exactly!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,082
    It doesn't 'tick my boxes' as such, I just can't get upset or angry about it. It's only a film.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 2,094
    mtm wrote: »
    It doesn't 'tick my boxes' as such, I just can't get upset or angry about it. It's only a film.

    I don’t find myself upset either, it’s just a criticism I have in an otherwise decent movie.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,082
    Sorry yes, I shouldn't have said 'angry', that's unfair. But I can't be annoyed by it either.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Sorry yes, I shouldn't have said 'angry', that's unfair. But I can't be annoyed by it either.

    No apologies needed! I understood perfectly what you meant.
  • Posts: 6,677
    The way to do a new Bond film = The way Alfa Romeo just did the new 33

    ;)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited August 2023 Posts: 13,903
    The new 33 is nice, but I have a soft spot for those boxy Alfas of the 1980's and 1990's, so I prefer the 1989/90 facelift of the 33.
  • Posts: 1,550
    @jetsetwilly
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair even in the context of the books doesn't Bond use the phrase 'we have all the time in the world' more than once/not always specifically in relation to Tracy? One can argue recontextualising it for Madeline in NTTD makes sense.

    Again, it's not my favourite aspect of the film, and I find the reference a bit too on the nose/would have preferred something original, but honestly there are a chunk of people who watched NTTD who have no idea what the relevance of the song is in terms of Bond, and even if they did it worked for some.

    Yes, it used in both CR and LALD.

  • Posts: 1,550
    For me the question about the OHMSS callbacks in NTTD is "what is the purpose?" What did the writers and producers have in mind? If the point was to remind us of another film, that it did. If we were to be reminded of Tracy, she was never part of this Bond's timeline. If we were to believe there was some sort of equivalency between Tracy and Madeleine, there wasn't. While the song doesn't specifically refer to Tracy, it would be like using the Bond theme for Felix. It seemed out of place. Bond's death ends up being completely at odds with the lyrics. "We (don't) have all the time in the world." It's almost as if the intent was to snatch some of Lazenby's thunder. Emotionally, the end of NTTD doesn't resonate like the end of OHMSS. Surely a brilliant songwriter could have come up with a song and love theme for Bond and Madeleine that didn't rip off a previous film.
    Going forward, we don't need callbacks. The Bond theme and the characters who support Bond will be callback enough. The new Bond doesn't need to recall events from someone else's timeline.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,393
    CrabKey wrote: »
    For me the question about the OHMSS callbacks in NTTD is "what is the purpose?" What did the writers and producers have in mind? If the point was to remind us of another film, that it did. If we were to be reminded of Tracy, she was never part of this Bond's timeline. If we were to believe there was some sort of equivalency between Tracy and Madeleine, there wasn't. While the song doesn't specifically refer to Tracy, it would be like using the Bond theme for Felix. It seemed out of place. Bond's death ends up being completely at odds with the lyrics. "We (don't) have all the time in the world." It's almost as if the intent was to snatch some of Lazenby's thunder. Emotionally, the end of NTTD doesn't resonate like the end of OHMSS. Surely a brilliant songwriter could have come up with a song and love theme for Bond and Madeleine that didn't rip off a previous film.
    Going forward, we don't need callbacks. The Bond theme and the characters who support Bond will be callback enough. The new Bond doesn't need to recall events from someone else's timeline.

    Exactly, you nailed it!
    Univex wrote: »
    The way to do a new Bond film = The way Alfa Romeo just did the new 33

    ;)

    I'd liked to see Bond drive an Alfa Romeo (although not the new one, but the most fitting), I've seen the type 33 and it's really great looking!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 15,082
    CrabKey wrote: »
    If we were to believe there was some sort of equivalency between Tracy and Madeleine, there wasn't.

    There is.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Bond's death ends up being completely at odds with the lyrics. "We (don't) have all the time in the world."

    One of his last lines is "You have all the time in the world". The song plays over Madeline and Mathelide together, remembering Bond.
    If you insist on being completely literal, it doesn't apply to Bond and Tracy either. Because she dies at the end too, just like Bond does in NTTD. Is that different in some way?
    I would say that lyrics are supposed to have a bit of lyricism to them and aren't supposed to be taken exactly literally.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    It's almost as if the intent was to snatch some of Lazenby's thunder.

    That's silly. I'm so tired of 'fans' constantly pinning the most treacherous of motives onto the makers of the films I like. Every time I come here it's all about how bad the recent, massively successful and popular films were, and how underhand and awful Broccoli and Wilson are. It's tiring. I like these films. I've had a rubbish day at work and I have to read about how the films are like are somehow trying to spoil the old films I like.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Emotionally, the end of NTTD doesn't resonate like the end of OHMSS.

    To you. To others it does.
    Exceeds it even. There are some for whom the relationship between Bond and Tracy feels unearned, conveyed through nothing but a rather tacky montage, and with two actors who have zero chemistry, one of whom is a walking plank.
    See? It's easy to say everything's rubbish.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,393
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    If we were to believe there was some sort of equivalency between Tracy and Madeleine, there wasn't.
    There is.

    Care to elaborate?
    To be honest, I wished they've just did what have they done in Casino Royale, many people found the Vesper-Bond romance worked despite of them not having some sort of love theme, compared here with Madeleine, where they've put a lot more effort, but the romance was empty and shallow.

    And I can safely say that Tracy could be an equivalent to different Bond actors' eras: like Countess Lisl for Moore, Elektra King for Brosnan for example, both have shades of Tracy in some angles, but they've never used that song, because they're not Tracy.
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Bond's death ends up being completely at odds with the lyrics. "We (don't) have all the time in the world."

    One of his last lines is "You have all the time in the world". The song plays over Madeline and Mathelide together, remembering Bond.
    If you insist on being completely literal, it doesn't apply to Bond and Tracy either. Because she dies at the end too, just like Bond does in NTTD. Is that different in some way?
    I would say that lyrics are supposed to have a bit of lyricism to them and aren't supposed to be taken exactly literally.

    Again, I have no problem with Bond mentioning it, but what makes it more problematic was the fact the song itself was played.
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    It's almost as if the intent was to snatch some of Lazenby's thunder.

    That's silly. I'm so tired of 'fans' constantly pinning the most treacherous of motives onto the makers of the films I like. Every time I come here it's all about how bad the recent, massively successful and popular films were, and how underhand and awful Broccoli and Wilson are. It's tiring. I like these films. I've had a rubbish day at work and I have to read about how the films are like are somehow trying to spoil the old films I like.

    It's not the problem, the problem was the using of it for different situation, it's like again, playing 'If There Was A Man' from The Living Daylights in another romance, when that song reminds me of Bond and Kara's relationship.

    It's no different to the usage of We Have All The Time In The World in Bond and Madeleine's romance when that song was originally for Bond and Tracy.

    It's stealing another identity, more like identity theft.

    It's no different to using 'Where Has Everybody Gone?' to Primo or any other henchman, when that song was made for Necros in TLD.

    The thing is, there are some songs that holds a particular significance and therefore couldn't be used because of that.

    It's like playing 'Vesper's theme' from CR in all of Madeleine's scenes, considering that Madeleine reflected some aspects of Vesper (especially the betrayal in NTTD PTS).
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Emotionally, the end of NTTD doesn't resonate like the end of OHMSS.

    To you. To others it does.
    Exceeds it even. There are some for whom the relationship between Bond and Tracy feels unearned, conveyed through nothing but a rather tacky montage, and with two actors who have zero chemistry, one of whom is a walking plank.
    See? It's easy to say everything's rubbish.

    Really? But what @CrabKey was talking here is the ending, and the ending of OHMSS hits hard for most, whereas Bond's death in NTTD is still divisive (some may even hate the film for that ending alone), meanwhile many people liked OHMSS and ending is one of the reasons, and the ending of OHMSS hits harder because it's faithfully shot from the book, meanwhile the ending of NTTD never came from any of the books.
  • Posts: 1,550
    @MTM If you are tired of reading negative opinions about films you like, then perhaps you should check out of this site. I am not changing my comments (opinions) to suit you because you're tired of reading things you disagree with.

    When I say the end of NTTD doesn't resonate like the end of OHMSS, that's my opinion. Nowhere have I suggested that's the opinion of everyone. What is silly is your need to point out not everyone shares that opinion. Really?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 15,082
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    If we were to believe there was some sort of equivalency between Tracy and Madeleine, there wasn't.

    There is.


    Care to elaborate?

    He loves her, as he tells her, he leaves his job for her, they travel around the world, she has his child, they become his family. He even chooses to die for her. He only does one of these for Tracy.

    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    To be honest, I wished they've just did what have they done in Casino Royale, many people found the Vesper-Bond romance worked despite of them not having some sort of love theme, compared here with Madeleine, where they've put a lot more effort, but the romance was empty and shallow.

    As it was in OHMSS, but that's fine. I think it worked perfectly well here.
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Bond's death ends up being completely at odds with the lyrics. "We (don't) have all the time in the world."

    One of his last lines is "You have all the time in the world". The song plays over Madeline and Mathelide together, remembering Bond.
    If you insist on being completely literal, it doesn't apply to Bond and Tracy either. Because she dies at the end too, just like Bond does in NTTD. Is that different in some way?
    I would say that lyrics are supposed to have a bit of lyricism to them and aren't supposed to be taken exactly literally.

    Again, I have no problem with Bond mentioning it, but what makes it more problematic was the fact the song itself was played.
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    It's almost as if the intent was to snatch some of Lazenby's thunder.

    That's silly. I'm so tired of 'fans' constantly pinning the most treacherous of motives onto the makers of the films I like. Every time I come here it's all about how bad the recent, massively successful and popular films were, and how underhand and awful Broccoli and Wilson are. It's tiring. I like these films. I've had a rubbish day at work and I have to read about how the films are like are somehow trying to spoil the old films I like.

    It's not the problem, the problem was the using of it for different situation, it's like again, playing 'If There Was A Man' from The Living Daylights in another romance, when that song reminds me of Bond and Kara's relationship.

    It's no different to the usage of We Have All The Time In The World in Bond and Madeleine's romance when that song was originally for Bond and Tracy.

    It's stealing another identity, more like identity theft.

    It's no different to using 'Where Has Everybody Gone?' to Primo or any other henchman, when that song was made for Necros in TLD.

    Yes, you've said all of that, and I've already replied to it. I find it fine.
    I get where you're coming from, you've explained it, you don't have to repeat it. I've explained why I don't mind it, there it is. Neither of us is *correct*, neither is *wrong*.
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Emotionally, the end of NTTD doesn't resonate like the end of OHMSS.

    To you. To others it does.
    Exceeds it even. There are some for whom the relationship between Bond and Tracy feels unearned, conveyed through nothing but a rather tacky montage, and with two actors who have zero chemistry, one of whom is a walking plank.
    See? It's easy to say everything's rubbish.

    Really? But what @CrabKey was talking here is the ending, and the ending of OHMSS hits hard for most, whereas Bond's death in NTTD is still divisive.

    Yes really. Do you really find that Lazenby has great chemistry with... anyone?
    I don't find the end of NTTD divisive: it's kind of impossible for me to! :)
    And as we can only talk about our own personal reactions when we're talking about finding something of quality or not, I find it resonates just as well as OHMSS. You may not, but you can't tell me it doesn't resonate as well as if it's a fact.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,393
    mtm wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    If we were to believe there was some sort of equivalency between Tracy and Madeleine, there wasn't.

    There is.


    Care to elaborate?

    He loves her, as he tells her, he leaves his job for her, they travel around the world, she has his child, they become his family. He even chooses to die for her. He only does one of these for Tracy.

    He said the same to Vesper, planning to retire with her, they're even travelling the world together (the last time they're in Venice right?), and possibly Bond would be even planning to have a family with her.
    mtm wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    To be honest, I wished they've just did what have they done in Casino Royale, many people found the Vesper-Bond romance worked despite of them not having some sort of love theme, compared here with Madeleine, where they've put a lot more effort, but the romance was empty and shallow.

    As it was in OHMSS, but that's fine. I think it worked perfectly well here.
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Bond's death ends up being completely at odds with the lyrics. "We (don't) have all the time in the world."

    One of his last lines is "You have all the time in the world". The song plays over Madeline and Mathelide together, remembering Bond.
    If you insist on being completely literal, it doesn't apply to Bond and Tracy either. Because she dies at the end too, just like Bond does in NTTD. Is that different in some way?
    I would say that lyrics are supposed to have a bit of lyricism to them and aren't supposed to be taken exactly literally.

    Again, I have no problem with Bond mentioning it, but what makes it more problematic was the fact the song itself was played.
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    It's almost as if the intent was to snatch some of Lazenby's thunder.

    That's silly. I'm so tired of 'fans' constantly pinning the most treacherous of motives onto the makers of the films I like. Every time I come here it's all about how bad the recent, massively successful and popular films were, and how underhand and awful Broccoli and Wilson are. It's tiring. I like these films. I've had a rubbish day at work and I have to read about how the films are like are somehow trying to spoil the old films I like.

    It's not the problem, the problem was the using of it for different situation, it's like again, playing 'If There Was A Man' from The Living Daylights in another romance, when that song reminds me of Bond and Kara's relationship.

    It's no different to the usage of We Have All The Time In The World in Bond and Madeleine's romance when that song was originally for Bond and Tracy.

    It's stealing another identity, more like identity theft.

    It's no different to using 'Where Has Everybody Gone?' to Primo or any other henchman, when that song was made for Necros in TLD.

    Yes, you've said all of that, and I've already replied to it. I find it fine.
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Emotionally, the end of NTTD doesn't resonate like the end of OHMSS.

    To you. To others it does.
    Exceeds it even. There are some for whom the relationship between Bond and Tracy feels unearned, conveyed through nothing but a rather tacky montage, and with two actors who have zero chemistry, one of whom is a walking plank.
    See? It's easy to say everything's rubbish.
    Really? But what @CrabKey was talking here is the ending, and the ending of OHMSS hits hard for most, whereas Bond's death in NTTD is still divisive.
    I don't find it divisive: it's kind of impossible for me to! :) And as we can only talk about our own personal reactions when we're talking about finding something of quality or not, I find it resonates just as well as OHMSS. You may not, but you can't tell it doesn't resonate as well, as if it's a fact.

    So, if all of those songs like those that I've mentioned would be played in future Bond films, would it be fine for you?

    For example, using 'Where Has Everybody Gone' for another henchman in a future Bond film, or playing If There Was A Man or Experience of Love when Bond was caught in a relationship in a future Bond film, would you find it fine too?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 15,082
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    If we were to believe there was some sort of equivalency between Tracy and Madeleine, there wasn't.

    There is.


    Care to elaborate?

    He loves her, as he tells her, he leaves his job for her, they travel around the world, she has his child, they become his family. He even chooses to die for her. He only does one of these for Tracy.

    He said the same to Vesper, planning to retire with her, they're even travelling the world together (the last time they're in Venice right?), and possibly Bond would be even planning to have a family with her.

    That's very true. She was the other big love, more of a lost one in a way.
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    To be honest, I wished they've just did what have they done in Casino Royale, many people found the Vesper-Bond romance worked despite of them not having some sort of love theme, compared here with Madeleine, where they've put a lot more effort, but the romance was empty and shallow.

    As it was in OHMSS, but that's fine. I think it worked perfectly well here.
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Bond's death ends up being completely at odds with the lyrics. "We (don't) have all the time in the world."

    One of his last lines is "You have all the time in the world". The song plays over Madeline and Mathelide together, remembering Bond.
    If you insist on being completely literal, it doesn't apply to Bond and Tracy either. Because she dies at the end too, just like Bond does in NTTD. Is that different in some way?
    I would say that lyrics are supposed to have a bit of lyricism to them and aren't supposed to be taken exactly literally.

    Again, I have no problem with Bond mentioning it, but what makes it more problematic was the fact the song itself was played.
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    It's almost as if the intent was to snatch some of Lazenby's thunder.

    That's silly. I'm so tired of 'fans' constantly pinning the most treacherous of motives onto the makers of the films I like. Every time I come here it's all about how bad the recent, massively successful and popular films were, and how underhand and awful Broccoli and Wilson are. It's tiring. I like these films. I've had a rubbish day at work and I have to read about how the films are like are somehow trying to spoil the old films I like.

    It's not the problem, the problem was the using of it for different situation, it's like again, playing 'If There Was A Man' from The Living Daylights in another romance, when that song reminds me of Bond and Kara's relationship.

    It's no different to the usage of We Have All The Time In The World in Bond and Madeleine's romance when that song was originally for Bond and Tracy.

    It's stealing another identity, more like identity theft.

    It's no different to using 'Where Has Everybody Gone?' to Primo or any other henchman, when that song was made for Necros in TLD.

    Yes, you've said all of that, and I've already replied to it. I find it fine.
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Emotionally, the end of NTTD doesn't resonate like the end of OHMSS.

    To you. To others it does.
    Exceeds it even. There are some for whom the relationship between Bond and Tracy feels unearned, conveyed through nothing but a rather tacky montage, and with two actors who have zero chemistry, one of whom is a walking plank.
    See? It's easy to say everything's rubbish.
    Really? But what @CrabKey was talking here is the ending, and the ending of OHMSS hits hard for most, whereas Bond's death in NTTD is still divisive.
    I don't find it divisive: it's kind of impossible for me to! :) And as we can only talk about our own personal reactions when we're talking about finding something of quality or not, I find it resonates just as well as OHMSS. You may not, but you can't tell it doesn't resonate as well, as if it's a fact.

    So, if all of those songs like those that I've mentioned would be played in future Bond films, would it be fine for you?

    For example, using 'Where Has Everybody Gone' for another henchman in a future Bond film, or playing If There Was A Man or Experience of Love when Bond was caught in a relationship in a future Bond film, would you find it fine too?

    Well I'd obviously prefer not to hear Experience of Love again(!), but yeah, I'd probably get over it. I'd probably be more curious about what the filmmakers were trying to say by bringing those back than this one. Do you want me to be upset about it?
  • Posts: 1,717
    Who cares where Bond goes after Craig when we have the new reality series that will carry on the legacy?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,601
    Why can’t some people just accept that WHATTITW, and the nods to OHMSS, during NTTD, worked for some of us?

    It’s a film, for crispes sake!

    Bond dying worked for some of us.

    It’s just a film!

    I love NTTD. Unapologetically. Emotionally, I rank it up there with my favourite films (from the first two Godfather films, Apocalypse Now, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, Serpico, Dog Day Afternoon, Jaws….)

    My wife loves NTTD (she enjoys most Bond’s as a passing, fun evening when a new film comes out. That’s pretty much it).

    August 25 was my birthday (yes, I share this date, and my bald head, with Mr. Connery), and we watched NTTD. We had a couple of martinis and loved every second of the film. And by the end, we were both bawling like babies, but also felt the power of what the character sacrificed.

    On top of this stupidity, we also had a Montreal artist capture, in painting, Bond’s final moments. This was my birthday gift (and those who have connected with me on IG have seen it).

    This film, like any other film, works for some, not for others.

    And if you actually read what @mtm was saying (instead of lecturing or trying to instigate an argument), you’ll see he’s pretty measured and was being reasonable. In fact, he’s on record as seeing faults with this film, but he also sees the positives.

    Maybe a good question for the NTTD haters to consider is: What’d you think about people who like the film? Are they “stupid” for liking it? Are they your “enemy”? If not, then try and have a conversation with them.

    And if so, well, god help you…
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 15,082
    Thank you @peter , well said.
    I'm glad you had a nice birthday, sounds fun. Apart from the crying of course! :D
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,601
    mtm wrote: »
    Thank you @peter , well said.
    I'm glad you had a nice birthday, sounds fun. Apart from the crying of course! :D

    Thanks, 😂. It was a perfect evening!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,149
    peter wrote: »
    Why can’t some people just accept that WHATTITW, and the nods to OHMSS, during NTTD, worked for some of us?

    It’s a film, for crispes sake!

    Bond dying worked for some of us.

    It’s just a film!

    I love NTTD. Unapologetically. Emotionally, I rank it up there with my favourite films (from the first two Godfather films, Apocalypse Now, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, Serpico, Dog Day Afternoon, Jaws….)

    My wife loves NTTD (she enjoys most Bond’s as a passing, fun evening when a new film comes out. That’s pretty much it).

    August 25 was my birthday (yes, I share this date, and my bald head, with Mr. Connery), and we watched NTTD. We had a couple of martinis and loved every second of the film. And by the end, we were both bawling like babies, but also felt the power of what the character sacrificed.

    On top of this stupidity, we also had a Montreal artist capture, in painting, Bond’s final moments. This was my birthday gift (and those who have connected with me on IG have seen it).

    This film, like any other film, works for some, not for others.

    And if you actually read what @mtm was saying (instead of lecturing or trying to instigate an argument), you’ll see he’s pretty measured and was being reasonable. In fact, he’s on record as seeing faults with this film, but he also sees the positives.

    Maybe a good question for the NTTD haters to consider is: What’d you think about people who like the film? Are they “stupid” for liking it? Are they your “enemy”? If not, then try and have a conversation with them.

    And if so, well, god help you…

    Well said. Unless you're making a film, (and even then to a limit), don't judge people for having opinions on something that is meant to be fun. Us James Bond fans are one of the luckiest fandoms in the world. We have many books, movies, video games, and many other forms of media based on this fictional character. All of those products have more than one success. Not many other fandoms have that. There is such a thing as disagreeing while being respectful of each other. Us Bond fans generally are. Let's remember that.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited August 2023 Posts: 8,601
    Very nice words, @MaxCasino … You’re a really kind fella, my friend.
  • Posts: 1,550
    @Peter Exactly, the film works for some, not for others. But when MTM characterizes another's opinion as silly and then proceeds to go off about an opinion because it is contrary to his and he's had a rubbish day, that does not read as measured and reasonable. I am not looking to instigate an argument, but I will respond when I am told my opinions are silly and wrong.
    peter wrote: »
    Maybe a good question for the NTTD haters to consider is: What’d you think about people who like the film? Are they “stupid” for liking it? Are they your “enemy”? If not, then try and have a conversation with them. And if so, well, god help you…

    Your question is ill-considered and inappropriate. It reads as bait to start an argument. I hope you'll think better of it and delete it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 15,082
    Ah well; you tried, Peter! :)

    MaxCasino wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Why can’t some people just accept that WHATTITW, and the nods to OHMSS, during NTTD, worked for some of us?

    It’s a film, for crispes sake!

    Bond dying worked for some of us.

    It’s just a film!

    I love NTTD. Unapologetically. Emotionally, I rank it up there with my favourite films (from the first two Godfather films, Apocalypse Now, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, Serpico, Dog Day Afternoon, Jaws….)

    My wife loves NTTD (she enjoys most Bond’s as a passing, fun evening when a new film comes out. That’s pretty much it).

    August 25 was my birthday (yes, I share this date, and my bald head, with Mr. Connery), and we watched NTTD. We had a couple of martinis and loved every second of the film. And by the end, we were both bawling like babies, but also felt the power of what the character sacrificed.

    On top of this stupidity, we also had a Montreal artist capture, in painting, Bond’s final moments. This was my birthday gift (and those who have connected with me on IG have seen it).

    This film, like any other film, works for some, not for others.

    And if you actually read what @mtm was saying (instead of lecturing or trying to instigate an argument), you’ll see he’s pretty measured and was being reasonable. In fact, he’s on record as seeing faults with this film, but he also sees the positives.

    Maybe a good question for the NTTD haters to consider is: What’d you think about people who like the film? Are they “stupid” for liking it? Are they your “enemy”? If not, then try and have a conversation with them.

    And if so, well, god help you…

    Well said. Unless you're making a film, (and even then to a limit), don't judge people for having opinions on something that is meant to be fun. Us James Bond fans are one of the luckiest fandoms in the world. We have many books, movies, video games, and many other forms of media based on this fictional character. All of those products have more than one success. Not many other fandoms have that. There is such a thing as disagreeing while being respectful of each other. Us Bond fans generally are. Let's remember that.


    Yes indeed, I like all of the films and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Some I prefer to others, and some have issues, and I think it's fun to chat about those, but also to share in a bit of praise of them. Conjuring up stories about how awful the producers must be etc. doesn't appeal to me at all and I don't really have interest in trying to convince folks to like these films less. I'm certainly happy to try and persuade them that the bits they may not enjoy might not be as bad as they thought, though!
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    edited August 2023 Posts: 996
    Bond looks up in the sky as the missiles strike on the island:

    "This never happened to the other fellas..."

    Later:

    "For James..."
    "For James..."
    "For James..."
    "For James..."


    Pierce Brosnan enters the room:

    "The writings truly were on the wall for him, don't you think Paloma?"

    Paloma enters the room:

    "Ay si, que tragedia..."
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited August 2023 Posts: 4,149
    peter wrote: »
    Very nice words, @MaxCasino … You’re a really kind fella, my friend.

    Thank you, @peter same about you. I always try to be kind... but try living with me! ;)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited August 2023 Posts: 8,601
    Thanks @mtm

    @CrabKey , unfortunately I do think you missed @mtm’s points, and;
    my questions were not baiting in any way.

    In fact, I hope one would take them as being rhetorical!

    I do think you did miss my point on this as well- and that’s not baiting either. I’ll leave it at that.

    Edit: @MaxCasino , I hear you… sometimes I actually feel terribly that my wife is STILL living with me, and my poor kids STILL come back to visit. I know i can be the grumpy bear.

    No one is perfect, 😂.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,612
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @Peter Exactly, the film works for some, not for others. But when MTM characterizes another's opinion as silly and then proceeds to go off about an opinion because it is contrary to his and he's had a rubbish day, that does not read as measured and reasonable. I am not looking to instigate an argument, but I will respond when I am told my opinions are silly and wrong.
    peter wrote: »
    Maybe a good question for the NTTD haters to consider is: What’d you think about people who like the film? Are they “stupid” for liking it? Are they your “enemy”? If not, then try and have a conversation with them. And if so, well, god help you…

    Your question is ill-considered and inappropriate. It reads as bait to start an argument. I hope you'll think better of it and delete it.

    @peter 's post does make a lot of sense, though, @CrabKey. Since NTTD's release, the film has been called lots of things, ugly things, that drag its fans into the mudpool with it. I myself was lectured on what constitutes a "true" Bond fan, and how I, as a consequence of my appreciation for NTTD, am not a "true" Bond fan. And then something about "Babs" having to be fired. And then something about people who love NTTD having been brainwashed by Marvel's MCU and whatnot. To me, Peter's post doesn't read as bait at all; in fact, I have been wondering the same thing. Are we, indeed, considered stupid for liking NTTD?

    Another important point is the fact that we are talking about our opinions of films, not about hard, scientific facts. Yet many are willing to die on that rather silly hill. People from both sides, I might add. I think @peter's very level-headed post holds true for us all, regardless of which side we're on. These courtroom dramas about who's right about a bloody film have already forced many of our friends away from certain threads, and even from this forum. Let's not forget that most of us want to engage with fans with varying opinions because the perspective of someone else can be interesting and entertaining. We're not here to allow the biggest mouths their victory in the My Taste Is Better Than Yours game we're not willing to play. This isn't the YouTube comment section...
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