Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 1,768
    Great question @MI6HQ
    I don't mind the subtle callbacks (50 year old Macallan, a favourite of yours) but I hate the overt ones (Fields covered in oil)

    At times it felt like in the later Daniel films, they were trying too hard to make his Bond feel more traditional and the era lost a bit of its edge in return.

    It's part of the reason I hope whoever they cast as Bond #7 is a somewhat conventional choice, then they won't need to retread old ground, almost to convince us this man is James Bond.

    As for the Vesper/Tracy thing, I'd rather we see Bond #7 fall in love with Gala Brand instead. They could finally adapt a version of that character in the film series
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 3,036
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Great question @MI6HQ
    I don't mind the subtle callbacks (50 year old Macallan, a favourite of yours) but I hate the overt ones (Fields covered in oil)

    At times it felt like in the later Daniel films, they were trying too hard to make his Bond feel more traditional and the era lost a bit of its edge in return.

    It's part of the reason I hope whoever they cast as Bond #7 is a somewhat conventional choice, then they won't need to retread old ground, almost to convince us this man is James Bond.

    As for the Vesper/Tracy thing, I'd rather we see Bond #7 fall in love with Gala Brand instead. They could finally adapt a version of that character in the film series

    A unique idea. I’d go with Sixtine instead, as she shapes him in FAAD, in more ways than one.
  • Posts: 724
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    A unique idea. I’d go with Sixtine instead, as she shapes him in FAAD, in more ways than one.
    Sixtine is definitely an option I'm very fond of. While I don't think B26 should be an adaptation of FAAD, nor should Sixtine be onscreen, to have her mentioned and be a part of this continuity is a great idea.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,239
    Off of that recommendation, I'd love to see more of the untapped Fleming material utilized in some form or fashion. There are still quite a few great characters, setpieces and ideas that would make for a really stellar transition to the screen.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,573
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Off of that recommendation, I'd love to see more of the untapped Fleming material utilized in some form or fashion. There are still quite a few great characters, setpieces and ideas that would make for a really stellar transition to the screen.

    The novel isn't Fleming's best, but I'd love to see the final act of The Man With The Golden Gun make an appearance in a film. Maybe set it in a place known for its alligators for an extra slice of jeopardy.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 12,067
    It kind of did make it to the screen, albeit heavily adapted, in the finale of LTK.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 488
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Off of that recommendation, I'd love to see more of the untapped Fleming material utilized in some form or fashion. There are still quite a few great characters, setpieces and ideas that would make for a really stellar transition to the screen.

    The novel isn't Fleming's best, but I'd love to see the final act of The Man With The Golden Gun make an appearance in a film. Maybe set it in a place known for its alligators for an extra slice of jeopardy.

    So either Australia or Florida.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 12,067
    No gators in Australia.
  • edited December 2022 Posts: 1,268
    Broadly true. I think Australia does have (or at least has had) certain species in zoos technically (at least I remember there being some last time I visited) but they're not natural to the environment. Was going to write Jamaica in response to that myself, but only just realised they have crocodiles, not alligators. Think it's really only certain states in America and China they're found in? Possibly a part of Mexico too apparently.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,573
    Either crocodiles or gators will do!
  • Posts: 5,868
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Great question @MI6HQ
    It's part of the reason I hope whoever they cast as Bond #7 is a somewhat conventional choice, then they won't need to retread old ground, almost to convince us this man is James Bond.

    Never thought about it that way, but you are absolutely right!
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Off of that recommendation, I'd love to see more of the untapped Fleming material utilized in some form or fashion. There are still quite a few great characters, setpieces and ideas that would make for a really stellar transition to the screen.

    Oh, absolutely. I can think of a few that would be quite cinematic. I'd love to see Bond swim with barracudas. And prepare himself physically and mentally for a mission. And I wouldn't be against a giant squid. And some other fairly exotic situations.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,205
    I just wrote a long thing on the controversial opinions thread about how the Ms in the Craigverse most likely are only the Heads of the 00 Section rather than Chiefs of the Secret Intelligence Service. While I am of course so vain that I would like my headcanon/fan theory to be fully acknowledged in the canon - even when the Craig timeline is over - and I am interested in the boring background structures and politics of these institutions I don’t really think it would outweigh the confusion that would abound if James Bond no longer worked for MI6. The English Tabloids would go mental - not that their reaction should ever discourage someone making a creative decision.

    A twist could be if there is a public figurehead „Head of MI6“ and then there’s M who really controls it all and then the plot is around that entanglement. Maybe they could even get the real Richard Moore to cameo! That would be funny. But probably way, way, way too convoluted.
  • LucknFateLucknFate Arkhangelsk
    Posts: 550
    I just wrote a long thing on the controversial opinions thread about how the Ms in the Craigverse most likely are only the Heads of the 00 Section rather than Chiefs of the Secret Intelligence Service. While I am of course so vain that I would like my headcanon/fan theory to be fully acknowledged in the canon - even when the Craig timeline is over - and I am interested in the boring background structures and politics of these institutions I don’t really think it would outweigh the confusion that would abound if James Bond no longer worked for MI6. The English Tabloids would go mental - not that their reaction should ever discourage someone making a creative decision.

    A twist could be if there is a public figurehead „Head of MI6“ and then there’s M who really controls it all and then the plot is around that entanglement. Maybe they could even get the real Richard Moore to cameo! That would be funny. But probably way, way, way too convoluted.

    I always wondered if it'd be feasible to get a lower royal in a PTS, but I'll take Richard Moore.

    The Mission: Impossible movies got Wolf Blitzer, you never know.
  • edited December 2022 Posts: 1,268
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I just wrote a long thing on the controversial opinions thread about how the Ms in the Craigverse most likely are only the Heads of the 00 Section rather than Chiefs of the Secret Intelligence Service. While I am of course so vain that I would like my headcanon/fan theory to be fully acknowledged in the canon - even when the Craig timeline is over - and I am interested in the boring background structures and politics of these institutions I don’t really think it would outweigh the confusion that would abound if James Bond no longer worked for MI6. The English Tabloids would go mental - not that their reaction should ever discourage someone making a creative decision.

    A twist could be if there is a public figurehead „Head of MI6“ and then there’s M who really controls it all and then the plot is around that entanglement. Maybe they could even get the real Richard Moore to cameo! That would be funny. But probably way, way, way too convoluted.

    I always wondered if it'd be feasible to get a lower royal in a PTS, but I'll take Richard Moore.

    The Mission: Impossible movies got Wolf Blitzer, you never know.

    Wasn't Blitzer in SF too or am I making that up? Definitely not confusing him with Huw Edwards/his cameo in that film by the way.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,205
    007HallY wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I just wrote a long thing on the controversial opinions thread about how the Ms in the Craigverse most likely are only the Heads of the 00 Section rather than Chiefs of the Secret Intelligence Service. While I am of course so vain that I would like my headcanon/fan theory to be fully acknowledged in the canon - even when the Craig timeline is over - and I am interested in the boring background structures and politics of these institutions I don’t really think it would outweigh the confusion that would abound if James Bond no longer worked for MI6. The English Tabloids would go mental - not that their reaction should ever discourage someone making a creative decision.

    A twist could be if there is a public figurehead „Head of MI6“ and then there’s M who really controls it all and then the plot is around that entanglement. Maybe they could even get the real Richard Moore to cameo! That would be funny. But probably way, way, way too convoluted.

    I always wondered if it'd be feasible to get a lower royal in a PTS, but I'll take Richard Moore.

    The Mission: Impossible movies got Wolf Blitzer, you never know.

    Wasn't Blitzer in SF too or am I making that up? Definitely not confusing him with Huw Edwards/his cameo in that film by the way.

    Yep, Bond sees Blitzer report on the Vauxhall Cross explosion from the bar in Turkey before coming back.
  • Posts: 1,268
    007HallY wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I just wrote a long thing on the controversial opinions thread about how the Ms in the Craigverse most likely are only the Heads of the 00 Section rather than Chiefs of the Secret Intelligence Service. While I am of course so vain that I would like my headcanon/fan theory to be fully acknowledged in the canon - even when the Craig timeline is over - and I am interested in the boring background structures and politics of these institutions I don’t really think it would outweigh the confusion that would abound if James Bond no longer worked for MI6. The English Tabloids would go mental - not that their reaction should ever discourage someone making a creative decision.

    A twist could be if there is a public figurehead „Head of MI6“ and then there’s M who really controls it all and then the plot is around that entanglement. Maybe they could even get the real Richard Moore to cameo! That would be funny. But probably way, way, way too convoluted.

    I always wondered if it'd be feasible to get a lower royal in a PTS, but I'll take Richard Moore.

    The Mission: Impossible movies got Wolf Blitzer, you never know.

    Wasn't Blitzer in SF too or am I making that up? Definitely not confusing him with Huw Edwards/his cameo in that film by the way.

    Yep, Bond sees Blitzer report on the Vauxhall Cross explosion from the bar in Turkey before coming back.

    That's it. Not American so I'm not really familiar with that reporter. It's cool that they actually got real life news presenters to do actual cameos in that film though.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,239
    Blitzer made the rounds in a few years there, appearing in M:I and something else, I believe, but maybe I'm misremembering.

    Still always ridiculous to me how Bond is jolted back into action because some miscellaneous bar in Turkey gets live CNN reports.
  • edited December 2022 Posts: 1,268
    To be honest, I actually misremembered it for a long time and thought it was Edwards who gave the report in that scene. Obviously he appears a bit later. Still, surely it'd have made more sense for the BBC to be reporting about the MI6 attack, no?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2022 Posts: 12,067
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be honest, I actually misremembered it for a long time and thought it was Edwards who gave the report in that scene. Obviously he appears a bit later. Still, surely it'd have made more sense for the BBC to be reporting about the MI6 attack, no?

    Yeah but I guess more likely the bar would have CNN on than BBC World.

    I still love Martin Lewis turning up in TWINE; and as I remember BBC News had had a refresh of its onscreen presentation by then, but because Bond was watching an archive clip they actually got the correct previous set and look of BBC News for the scene. Nice work.
    I just wrote a long thing on the controversial opinions thread about how the Ms in the Craigverse most likely are only the Heads of the 00 Section rather than Chiefs of the Secret Intelligence Service. While I am of course so vain that I would like my headcanon/fan theory to be fully acknowledged in the canon - even when the Craig timeline is over - and I am interested in the boring background structures and politics of these institutions I don’t really think it would outweigh the confusion that would abound if James Bond no longer worked for MI6. The English Tabloids would go mental - not that their reaction should ever discourage someone making a creative decision.

    Is neither M mentioned to be the boss of MI6 in the Craig films then? Never noticed that.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,205
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be honest, I actually misremembered it for a long time and thought it was Edwards who gave the report in that scene. Obviously he appears a bit later. Still, surely it'd have made more sense for the BBC to be reporting about the MI6 attack, no?

    Yeah but I guess more likely the bar would have CNN on than BBC World.

    I still love Martin Lewis turning up in TWINE; and as I remember BBC News had had a refresh of its onscreen presentation by then, but because Bond was watching an archive clip they actually got the correct previous set and look of BBC News for the scene. Nice work.
    I just wrote a long thing on the controversial opinions thread about how the Ms in the Craigverse most likely are only the Heads of the 00 Section rather than Chiefs of the Secret Intelligence Service. While I am of course so vain that I would like my headcanon/fan theory to be fully acknowledged in the canon - even when the Craig timeline is over - and I am interested in the boring background structures and politics of these institutions I don’t really think it would outweigh the confusion that would abound if James Bond no longer worked for MI6. The English Tabloids would go mental - not that their reaction should ever discourage someone making a creative decision.

    Is neither M mentioned to be the boss of MI6 in the Craig films then? Never noticed that.

    I wouldn’t claim that. I’d have to go back and rewatch it and frankly I think it’s unlikely. My thing is that they all of their actions and circumstances make more sense if they aren’t the Chief of a major government agency with 2.500+ employees, but rather something smaller.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 12,067
    Yes I agree there; and the same for all previous Ms really. It doesn't really make sense that the boss of the whole thing would be personally briefing an assassin to go and help some guy defect or whatever.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2022 Posts: 1,852
    Yeah, there could well be something in this. M explicitly identifies himself as 'Mallory, 00 Section' to the anti-terrorist copper on Westminster Bridge in SP, after all.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,573
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yeah, there could well be something in this. M explicitly identifies himself as 'Mallory, 00 Section' to the anti-terrorist copper on Westminster Bridge in SP, after all.

    One of numerous things about SP that I get irrationally annoyed about every time I see it. Why does a copper on the street know what a Double-Oh is?
  • Posts: 1,413
    How many security service or police officers would be familiar with the assassination section of MI6. Oh wait, even smugglers in Amsterdam know who Bond is.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,573
    delfloria wrote: »
    How many security service or police officers would be familiar with the assassination section of MI6. Oh wait, even smugglers in Amsterdam know who Bond is.

    One of those examples is from a ridiculously campy film that doesn't take itself seriously, while the copper on the street is from Spectre.
  • MI6HQMI6HQ Living here on Mars with David Bowie
    Posts: 1,882
    delfloria wrote: »
    How many security service or police officers would be familiar with the assassination section of MI6. Oh wait, even smugglers in Amsterdam know who Bond is.

    Everyone knows it, even those undercover drug cops in LTK for example, or even an assassin for hire like Scaramanga knows who Bond is and to the lesser extent knows what MI6 is.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 12,067
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yeah, there could well be something in this. M explicitly identifies himself as 'Mallory, 00 Section' to the anti-terrorist copper on Westminster Bridge in SP, after all.

    Ooh, good point.
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yeah, there could well be something in this. M explicitly identifies himself as 'Mallory, 00 Section' to the anti-terrorist copper on Westminster Bridge in SP, after all.

    One of numerous things about SP that I get irrationally annoyed about every time I see it. Why does a copper on the street know what a Double-Oh is?

    Well Judi M expects the coppers on bridges to recognise her car! :)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,573
    mtm wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yeah, there could well be something in this. M explicitly identifies himself as 'Mallory, 00 Section' to the anti-terrorist copper on Westminster Bridge in SP, after all.

    One of numerous things about SP that I get irrationally annoyed about every time I see it. Why does a copper on the street know what a Double-Oh is?

    Well Judi M expects the coppers on bridges to recognise her car! :)

    True. That's also something I'd change!
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,205
    I couldn't do it last night, but I'll just link my post in controversial opinions here, but you all kind of cited the major points by now anyway (and it seems this isn't a controversial opinion at all).

    I am kind of itching at doing a proper content analysis of the books and films about M's role and any descriptions of MI6's structures and the people working there. I obviously won't do that - that's a full-on media studies thesis - but it feels like there could be some surprising differences between what people think is in there and what actually is.
  • edited December 2022 Posts: 1,268
    I couldn't do it last night, but I'll just link my post in controversial opinions here, but you all kind of cited the major points by now anyway (and it seems this isn't a controversial opinion at all).

    I am kind of itching at doing a proper content analysis of the books and films about M's role and any descriptions of MI6's structures and the people working there. I obviously won't do that - that's a full-on media studies thesis - but it feels like there could be some surprising differences between what people think is in there and what actually is.

    Might be a bit of a tangent, but it makes sense that M functions the way he/she does in the Bond stories. Of course Fleming himself seems to have been inspired by his superiors in the Navel Intelligence Division (John Godfrey is the main one noted specifically). This was during WW2 as well, and Fleming's interactions with these superiors would have been about intelligence units and that sort of stuff. Ok, maybe not as fantastical as something from his Bond novels, but it's still very specific 'nitty gritty' stuff in a relatively covert setting.

    There is certainly bureaucracy in Fleming's MI6, but it's a far cry from something in a John Le Carre novel - a writer who did actually work for MI6 - with offices full of rather unassuming men. M is more a 'man of action' (more larger than life than a character from a Le Carre novel) and certainly one who Bond respects. Often in the novels it's that personal connection, that sense that M sees Bond as 'his best man' that gets the plot rolling (ie. in CR and MR his gambling skills spurs M to put Bond on these jobs, in YOLT, DN and TMWTGG he decides to send Bond on specific missions in order to get Bond 'back on track', in TB he decides to send him to his weird health clinic and even afterwards he shares his personal theory about where the warheads are etc.) So it makes sense from a story and the individual writer's perspective that M plays the role he does. In the films while the dynamics between the various M and Bonds have been slightly different in each version, that 'he's my best man' idea is still central to every M. It wouldn't change if he were only the head of the 00 section and would in fact probably be strengthened.
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