Rank the Barbara Broccolli/Michael Wilson Bond films

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Comments

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    For me at least, each consecutive film with the actor Brosnan or Craig gets worse. I’m not sure if that reflects more of myself or them as producers but perhaps they feel they need to put more effort into the films when they actually launch the actor and gradually lose interest and put the films on auto pilot?

    I agree. A pattern as you say, certainly exists in my eyes within these two eras.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,311
    That was only true for the Brosnan era, as far as I am concerned. After they put so many good ideas into GE and had a great director to make it all work, the next two did not really go anywhere. I believe that the producers also saw the problem and wanted to make the 20th film and the 40th anniversary something like a grand celebration of all the fun things about the James Bond franchise. We know how that ended.

    Craig, I think, is getting better from film to film. SF is up there with CR as one of the best films and from what I have seen, NTTD is looking to rank equally high.
  • Posts: 3,333
    1) Casino Royale (Head and shoulders above the rest here)

    2) Quantum of Solace (Needed more work but overall not as bad as some would say)
    3) SPECTRE (Not great, not terrible either)
    4) Skyfall (Strong first quarter, peters out to a grim fizzle)
    5) Goldeneye (Brozzer's best effort)
    6) Tomorrow Never Dies (Corny as hell)
    7) The World is not Enough (Turgid but has its moments)


    8) Die Another Day (Just dire. Very almost a franchise killer)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    bondsum wrote: »
    1) Casino Royale (Head and shoulders above the rest here)

    2) Quantum of Solace (Needed more work but overall not as bad as some would say)
    3) SPECTRE (Not great, not terrible either)
    4) Skyfall (Strong first quarter, peters out to a grim fizzle)
    5) Goldeneye (Brozzer's best effort)
    6) Tomorrow Never Dies (Corny as hell)
    7) The World is not Enough (Turgid but has its moments)


    8) Die Another Day (Just dire. Very almost a franchise killer)

    The recent QoS watchalong really dropped the film in my rankings. Craig is strong and there are wonderful dramatic moments with Mathis, but the film overall is a hot mess. WTF was Forster thinking?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    echo wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    1) Casino Royale (Head and shoulders above the rest here)

    2) Quantum of Solace (Needed more work but overall not as bad as some would say)
    3) SPECTRE (Not great, not terrible either)
    4) Skyfall (Strong first quarter, peters out to a grim fizzle)
    5) Goldeneye (Brozzer's best effort)
    6) Tomorrow Never Dies (Corny as hell)
    7) The World is not Enough (Turgid but has its moments)


    8) Die Another Day (Just dire. Very almost a franchise killer)

    The recent QoS watchalong really dropped the film in my rankings. Craig is strong and there are wonderful dramatic moments with Mathis, but the film overall is a hot mess. WTF was Forster thinking?

    I don't think any director could have made a good film out of it under the circumstances.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    If Forster didn’t insist on starting from scratch just so he could implement his pointless earth/air/water/fire motif they might have had a better developed script to work with by the time the strike happened.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    1. The World Is Not Enough
    2. Goldeneye
    3. Spectre
    4. Tomorrow Never Dies
    5. Skyfall
    6. Die Another Day
    7. Casino Royale
    8. Quantum Of Solace
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Octopussy wrote: »
    CR
    QOS
    SF
    SP

    GE
    TND
    DAD
    TWINE

    I sense a pattern.

    There's a theory that the first Bond film of each actor is their best and while I don't prescribe to it, I do feel that it has validity when assessing the Brosnan and Craig era. There will never be a better Craig film then Casino Royale because it's the perfect interpretation of the original Fleming narrative, IMO. Everything that came after has progressively worse. Reflecting on my original post, I would probably put Quantum of Solace behind Skyfall and Spectre because of it's total lack of plot and poor editing and the fact that it's such a disappointing follow-up from it's predecessor.

    If we look at Goldeneye it still feels like it's written with Dalton in mind. While Brosnan's performance isn't as self-assured as Die Another Day, overall the package is the most desirable of his four entries, IMO. It feels the most grounded in reality with strong supporting cast. Sean Bean is an awesome Bond villain and I love the relationship between 007 and 006 and the betrayal. Serra's score is better then anything Arnold produced throughout Brosnan's tenure, IMO. Everything that came after Goldeneye became gradually more full of gimmicks and gadgets, Bond by numbers and box ticking the formula.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    For me at least, each consecutive film with the actor Brosnan or Craig gets worse. I’m not sure if that reflects more of myself or them as producers but perhaps they feel they need to put more effort into the films when they actually launch the actor and gradually lose interest and put the films on auto pilot?

    I agree. A pattern as you say, certainly exists in my eyes within these two eras.

    Nailed it.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    CR
    QOS
    SF
    SP

    GE
    TND
    DAD
    TWINE

    I sense a pattern.

    There's a theory that the first Bond film of each actor is their best and while I don't prescribe to it, I do feel that it has validity when assessing the Brosnan and Craig era. There will never be a better Craig film then Casino Royale because it's the perfect interpretation of the original Fleming narrative, IMO. Everything that came after has progressively worse. Reflecting on my original post, I would probably put Quantum of Solace behind Skyfall and Spectre because of it's total lack of plot and poor editing and the fact that it's such a disappointing follow-up from it's predecessor.

    If we look at Goldeneye it still feels like it's written with Dalton in mind. While Brosnan's performance isn't as self-assured as Die Another Day, overall the package is the most desirable of his four entries, IMO. It feels the most grounded in reality with strong supporting cast. Sean Bean is an awesome Bond villain and I love the relationship between 007 and 006 and the betrayal. Serra's score is better then anything Arnold produced throughout Brosnan's tenure, IMO. Everything that came after Goldeneye became gradually more full of gimmicks and gadgets, Bond by numbers and box ticking the formula.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    For me at least, each consecutive film with the actor Brosnan or Craig gets worse. I’m not sure if that reflects more of myself or them as producers but perhaps they feel they need to put more effort into the films when they actually launch the actor and gradually lose interest and put the films on auto pilot?

    I agree. A pattern as you say, certainly exists in my eyes within these two eras.

    Nailed it.

    Great post. The only point I would contest personally is that I don’t like Serra’s score. Bar that all bang on IMO.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    1 QOS
    2 NTTD
    3 SP
    4 CR
    5 SF
    6 DAD
    7 TND
    8 GE
    9 TWINE
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    CR
    NTTD

    SF
    SP

    QOS

    GE
    TWINE

    TND


    DAD
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited November 2021 Posts: 538
    1. Casino Royale
    2. Goldeneye
    3. Skyfall
    4. No Time to Die
    5. Quantum of Solace
    6. Tomorrow Never Dies
    7. The World Is Not Enough
    8. Spectre
    9. Die Another Day

    S: CR, GE, SF
    A: NTTD
    B: QOS
    C: TND, TWINE
    D: SP, DAD
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited November 2021 Posts: 538
    Octopussy wrote: »
    There's a theory that the first Bond film of each actor is their best

    I think first films tend to be good out of necessity. You can't afford to F them up. If they see a new actor and don't like the film, they won't see the next one.

    Also, first films for actors are where producers rethink the conventions of the franchise. And essentially reboot it. Maybe the kind of films from the previous actor were appropriate for their time, but have gotten weary and its time for a change in direction.

    As a Bond actor does more films, they start to become more derivative. Especially if the film becomes a hit: the producers will have a mindset of "make another film, just like that one except 20% more budget/explosion/gags/boobs". "If the formula's working, don't change it".
  • Posts: 15,785
    1. CR
    2. GE
    3. SF
    4. TWINE
    5. TND
    6. NTTD
    7. SP
    8. QOS
    9. DAD
  • 1. GE
    2. SF
    3. CR
    4. NTTD
    5. TWINE
    6. SP
    7. QOS
    8. TND
    9. DAD
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2021 Posts: 23,449
    Interesting... I had to think really hard about this.
    1. CR
    2. GE
    3. NTTD
    4. SP
    5. QOS
    6. SF
    7. TND
    8. DAD
    9. TWINE
    The Campbells rank highest for me. Both films have played a big part in my life.
    And yes, DAD over TWINE. I won't apologize for that. At least DAD tries to be fun.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 538
    I don't think any director could have made a good film out of QOS under the circumstances.

    I disagree. There is a good film inside of it. It's the choppy editing that prevents the viewer from being immersed in the action and invested in the characters, which was 100% preventable with better direction.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    NTTD, SF, CR
    QOS


    SP
    TND
    GE

    TWINE





    DAD
  • I’ve always quite liked TWINE. It’s rough around the edges and the action is fairly limp, but I think it has one of the best villains of the series and a story that tried some interesting things. But I agree on DAD not being dead last. For me it’d be

    1) GE
    2) NTTD
    3) SP
    4) SF
    5) TWINE
    6) CR
    7) TND
    8) DAD
    9) QoS

    I’m not saying QoS is a worse film than DAD. But I at least get some enjoyment out of DAD in a “so bad it’s funny” sort of way. Quantum is just a mess imo. And I know putting CR so low will be controversial, but it’s just always been a film that I admired more than I actually enjoyed watching. There’s a top five Bond film in there somewhere. But it’s just too flabby and unfocused for me, it wasn’t until SF that I started to become a real fan of the Craig era.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 12,243
    1. Casino Royale
    2. Skyfall
    3. GoldenEye
    4. No Time to Die
    5. Quantum of Solace
    6. Tomorrow Never Dies
    7. The World Is Not Enough
    8. Spectre
    9. Die Another Day

    1-3 are all time favorites, 4-6 are all very good with TND still significantly not quite as good, 7-9 have their moments but are among the series’ weakest.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 372
    The hit pack:
    Casino Royale
    No Time to Die
    Tomorrow Never Dies
    Goldeneye
    Skyfall

    The miss pack:
    Spectre
    Quantum of Solace
    The World Is Not Enough
    Die Another Day

  • 1.Casino Royale
    2. GoldenEye
    3. Skyfall
    4. Quantum of Solace
    5. No Time to Die
    6. The World is Not Enough
    7. Spectre
    8. Tomorrow Never Dies
    9. Die Another Day

    Looking at it laid out like this I don’t think their average is really any lower than it was during the Broccoli/Saltzman era. It’s fairly evenly divided between certified hits, decent/flawed, and misses/lesser efforts.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    1. No Time To Die
    2. Casino Royale
    3. Skyfall
    4. Spectre
    5. GoldenEye
    6. Quantum of Solace
    7. The World Is Not Enough
    8. Tomorrow Never Dies
    9. Die Another Day

    Based upon my personal ranking of all the films, the first three of which are in my top five overall.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    edited November 2021 Posts: 611
    1. CR
    2. SF
    3. GE
    4. NTTD
    5. SP
    6. QOS
    7. TWINE
    8. TND

    9. DAD
    In terms of enjoyment there isn't much at all in between 1 and 4. Numbers 5 - 8 I can rewatch happily. Number 9 could cease to exist for me.
  • 1. CR
    2. SF
    3. NTTD
    ---
    4. GE
    ---
    5. QOS
    6. SP
    7. TND
    8. TWINE
    ---
    9. DAD
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited November 2021 Posts: 2,161
    1. CR

    2. QOS
    3. SF
    4. GE

    5. NTTD

    6. TND
    7. DAD

    8. TWINE

    9. SP
  • Looking at it laid out like this I don’t think their average is really any lower than it was during the Broccoli/Saltzman era. It’s fairly evenly divided between certified hits, decent/flawed, and misses/lesser efforts.

    Yeah completely agree. I don’t think the overall quality has dipped at all since Barbara took over, Bond has always been hit and miss. That’s just how it goes. The greatest strength of the series is its flexibility and ability to reinvent itself. Which is brilliant, obviously, that we can have a double taking pigeon and the CR torture scene under the same brand. But in a series that varied, of course there will be misses. The only actors without any bad films are Lazenby and Dalton, because they didn’t stick around for long enough.

    I also think that BB and MGW have had the misfortune of their run coinciding with the rise of the internet. New blockbusters get picked over a lot more now. And then there’s the childhood nostalgia we all have for the old films, that the new ones will just never recapture. TMWTGG has that long stretch of awful that starts with Bond getting taken out by sumo wrestlers, one of whom he tries to defeat with a wedgie (complete with awful accompanying sound effect of course), followed by probably the most mental “why didn’t he just shoot him?” in the series with death by kung fu school, then Hip turns up with his school girl nieces to save the day, then drives off for no reason, leading us onto the boat chase (because the LALD one wasn’t boring enough apparently). I honestly think that twenty minutes or so is worse than DAD’s tsunami surfing, but I bet it hasn’t generated anywhere near the same level of angry fansite comments over the years. Because DAD is a modern Bond film, while TMWTGG is an old one.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,657
    1. SF
    2. NTTD (subject to review, I've only seen it once so far)
    3. CR
    .
    .
    .
    4. GE
    5. TND
    6. SP
    .
    .
    .
    7. QOS (still hate the editing)
    .
    .
    .
    8.. TWINE
    .
    .
    .
    .
    9. DAD
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    1 Casino Royale
    2 Skyfall
    3 No Time To Die
    4 Quantum of Solace

    ---

    5 Tomorrow Never Dies
    6 GoldenEye

    ---

    7 Spectre
    8 The World Is Not Enough
    9 Die Another Day
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    CR
    NTTD
    SF
    QoS
    SP
    GE
    TND
    TWINE
    DAD
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