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When will the "superhero saturation" kick in?
I've seen "Avengers: Age Of Ultron", and I understand why this movie will 'marvel' once again at the global box office. But in all honesty? I was a bit underwhelmed. The movie felt less fresh then its predecessor "Avengers". On top of that, I think there are Marvel outings that feel more fresh, have more (literally) breathing space for its plot and characters and are as a film more believable. This I find to be the case especially for the 'one character' films. The first "Iron Man" movie (2008), the 2nd "Captain America" ("The Winter Soldier") (2014) added slightly more realistic action. But moreover, the action didn't dizzy my eyes. It was, well....watcheable. Also, these two Marvel outings added some serious secondary plots and themes to the Marvel franchise, that makes you want to discuss them afterwards and compare them with today's geopolitical developments.
Also, the Marvel ensemble film "Guardians Of The Galaxy" felt in my opinion more fresh than "Avengers: Age Of Ultron". It was a joyous piece of sci-fi, that handed over a wunderful space opera-franchise to the Marvel universe. Although I sincerely hope they are not going to mix the characters of this film with more future Marvel films.
Because in all honesty, I have been wondering this:
--> How much more super hero movies can and will the audiences across the globe accept, before they feel dated and 'more of the same'?
--> Compared to the superhero-films that are focused on one character only, are the ensemble-films the only ones that can do wonders at the box office?
--> And when will the 'superhero saturation' kick in, similar to the 'Bond saturation' at the end of the 1960's, early 1970's?
In all honesty, I do think the first signs are there. Whereas the first three "Iron Man" movies clearly showed improvements from one Iron Man-film to the next one, it was only the 3rd film that easily scored a $1.2 Billion box office figure globally. And I consider "Iron Man 3" the only Marvel film that is solely focused on one super hero only; the "one superhero film". All the following films, like the exquisit "Captain America: The Winter Soldier", easily considered to be one of the more serious, darker entries in the Marvel cinematic Universe, could not even go past the $750 Million globally.
And then as of next year DC Comics will flood us with another wave of superhero films. Not "one superhero films", but also "ensemble superhero films". The DC Comics set a standard with "The Dark Knight"-trilogy. The last two scoring easily more than $1 Billion at the global box office. But "Man Of Steel" couldn't repeat that. Even the nice enough "Red"-films were more or less flops.
And I haven't talked about Sony's "Spiderman" and 20th Century Fox' "X-Men" and "Fantastic Four" just yet. So the questions I've asked above are quite valid I think. What do you think?
Also, the Marvel ensemble film "Guardians Of The Galaxy" felt in my opinion more fresh than "Avengers: Age Of Ultron". It was a joyous piece of sci-fi, that handed over a wunderful space opera-franchise to the Marvel universe. Although I sincerely hope they are not going to mix the characters of this film with more future Marvel films.
Because in all honesty, I have been wondering this:
--> How much more super hero movies can and will the audiences across the globe accept, before they feel dated and 'more of the same'?
--> Compared to the superhero-films that are focused on one character only, are the ensemble-films the only ones that can do wonders at the box office?
--> And when will the 'superhero saturation' kick in, similar to the 'Bond saturation' at the end of the 1960's, early 1970's?
In all honesty, I do think the first signs are there. Whereas the first three "Iron Man" movies clearly showed improvements from one Iron Man-film to the next one, it was only the 3rd film that easily scored a $1.2 Billion box office figure globally. And I consider "Iron Man 3" the only Marvel film that is solely focused on one super hero only; the "one superhero film". All the following films, like the exquisit "Captain America: The Winter Soldier", easily considered to be one of the more serious, darker entries in the Marvel cinematic Universe, could not even go past the $750 Million globally.
And then as of next year DC Comics will flood us with another wave of superhero films. Not "one superhero films", but also "ensemble superhero films". The DC Comics set a standard with "The Dark Knight"-trilogy. The last two scoring easily more than $1 Billion at the global box office. But "Man Of Steel" couldn't repeat that. Even the nice enough "Red"-films were more or less flops.
And I haven't talked about Sony's "Spiderman" and 20th Century Fox' "X-Men" and "Fantastic Four" just yet. So the questions I've asked above are quite valid I think. What do you think?
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Comments
As far as Iron man, I really liked the first one, didn't like 2 at all and was very disappointed in 3 since I am a fan of Shane Black.
I guess in the end the superhero novelty will fade but a good movie will always be a good movie no matter the subject.
I agree. Good movie is a good movie. The thing is......I'm getting really tired of those ensemble films. For me the highlights of a decade full of superhero's and comic book adaptations were:
--> "Batman Begins"
--> "Iron Man 1"
--> "The Dark Knight"
--> "X-Men: First Class" (a rather rare ensemble film that I really liked)
--> "The Dark Knight Rises"
--> "Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier"
--> "Big Hero 6" (only animated Marvel film)
--> "Kingsman: The Secret Service" (Marv/Icon comic book adaptation)
But those are really the only ones as far as I'm concerned.....
For me, the highlights have been:
1. Batman Begins - a masterpiece
2. The Dark Knight - a worthy successor but imho not up to the standards of the first
3. Iron Man 1 - Downey's rebirth & the single handed launch of the Marvel juggernaut
4. Captain America 2 - since it was essentially a spy movie (my favourite genre) wrapped in a superhero movie
5. The Dark Knight Rises - gets a bad rap. I think it's better than TDK actually and a worthy close to the trilogy.
6. Spider Man 2 - the one with Maguire - definitive superhero movie
The trick is to focus on character....on depth of character.....on inner demons....on rebirth or resurrection. That's what all of the above did so well. That's very difficult to do in an ensemble piece imho.
The Nolan Batman films are a fantastic trilogy and Iron Man 1 is good fun. After that I'm out.
I also really liked the original X-Men films as well as the Nolan trilogy and the first Iron Man (#3 was pretty good aswell), but I'm not really interested in all these "Avengers" films or continuing X-Men instalments.
Maybe I feel the same way some of the general public feel about Bond (i.e. the films are all kind of the same).
The biggest issue I have more than the content is the action which is CGI overload that has desensitized me to any sense of spectacle. A bridge collapsing would normally be an awe inspiring event to transpire on the screen, now if it doesn't happen every 5 seconds it's boring. Man of Steel was insane with the overload of CGI, explosions, fast paced, can't tell what's going on nature.
Now I am most impressed with the stunts and set pieces that are 'real', which is why I tend to find the Bond films of the 70's and 80's so special as they are a true spectacle in every sense of the word when they started ramping up the stunts.
I will say the one film I loved recently was Guardians of the Galaxy. The film had a lot of character and a great script.
I'm not burnt on super hero films, and I don't understand why anyone is. Who's putting the gun to your head and forcing you to watch them that causes you to get burnt on them? I don't like found footage movies, but I'm not burnt on them, either, because I don't see every single one that pops into theaters. It's the same with disaster movies, buddy comedies, Tyler Perry movies, etc.
Is just seeing the commercials or trailers too much for you? Is seeing that a super hero show is on TV, but not watching it, too much for you? How do you get burnt on something unless you watch it? Watching it is your choice, so you're pretty much choosing to get burnt on it.
So, somebody, explain it to me.
I don't like musicals and ROM coms, and there are no doubt plenty of those I simply choose not to watch therm.
An over saturation of these films is absolutely impossible for me. These characters have been important figures in my life since childhood, especially Batman and Spider-Man, so to see most of them getting great adaptations on the big screen has been a thrill.
Stand-outs for me in the genre and why I think so:
*Batman Begins-I hated it when I was a kid, around twelve when I saw it in theaters at the time, until I was old enough to really understand the themes going on in the film. It now stands as one of my favorites for its brilliant origin story and creation of a Gotham that lived and breathed, slimy with the avarice of sinful men and women. The Narrows feels right out of the comics, bringing the atmosphere of the film up to eleven, and showcases for me why Bale is the best onscreen Bruce we've had so far. He plays so well in those scenes, acting impressed or faux self-absorbed, underlining perfectly that Bruce is the real mask he wears, and Batman is his true identity.
*The Dark Knight- Rather self-explanatory. Heath Ledger is the star of this film, giving one of the greatest performances that I have ever seen on screen, no matter the genre. I would love to go back in time to the first screening I saw of the film, to watch the movie with a fresh mind and enjoy it all over again. I went in expecting a good film but came out worshipping at the alter of a modern masterpiece. In this film we get a great adaptation of Batman's greatest villain, who stands as an immovable object tearing his city apart from the bottom up. The scariest thing about the Joker is just how right he is about human nature and in his predictions of human response to certain challenges or events. He called Dent falling from grace and orchestrated that downfall, and the events in Rises match his own statements about how people eat each other when "the chips are down," as Bane turns the class system tops-turvy and the citizens are forced to survive any way they can. The themes of sacrifice, identity, chaos and duality run rampant in this film, all leading up to a hell of a finale. It goes beyond being just a superhero movie and makes deep and resounding statements about morality, humanity, identity and duty that stay with you long after you see it.
*Spider-Man 2- A lot of people likely watch this film and think it's just a great action flick, but it's so much more than that. When I watch Spider-Man 2 I see a film with a brilliant overarching theme of identity. Very subtlety, the filmmakers feature in this film Oscar Wilde's classic play "The Importance of Being Earnest," which Mary Jane is acting in. In the play, we see men who create "Bunburys," people they've made up to get out of certain obligations. These are essentially masks under which they hide, and which lead to complications with the women they love. In this film, Peter's "Bunbury" is Spider-Man, of course, a mask or "other identity" that stops him from being with Mary Jane, often involuntarily. As with the play, we end with characters appreciating the importance of being honest with each other, as Peter is revealed to be Spider-man to citizens of New York on the train, to his best friend Harry and of course, to Mary Jane. Other great themes of obligation/duty, responsibility and choice remain in the fold, alongside a fantastic score, unmatched fight choreography and some brilliant performances that take this film above the rest in the genre. For all its parts, this film is and has always been my favorite superhero film.
*Iron Man- Also known as "the rebirth of Downey," this film jumpstarted the Marvel cinematic universe in spectacular fashion. Robert shows everyone that he's still got it, playing a character that very much fits his own witty, showy personality, always the life of the party. He plays the comedy and tragedy of Tony Stark brilliantly as he is forced to see the dangers and consequences of his work, alongside a great supporting cast. Jeff Bridges is a great friend turned enemy, though their face-off leaves some to be desired. Terence Howard is a great Rhodey, acting so well off of Robert that you really believe their characters are long-time friends. The start of all we now know of the MCU began here, and Marvel is still trying to match this film seven years on.
http://pro.boxoffice.com/latest-news/2015-05-01-north-america-thursday-night-report-avengers-age-of-ultron
Whereas the first "Avengers"-film managed to have an incredible opening weekend of $207.44 Million, "Avengers 2" saw a sharp decline on Saturday, making the opening weekend accumulating to $187.66 Million.
It's still a massive figure though, though not as record-breaking as the first "Avengers". In a way the opening weekend comes closer to the $147.19 Million that "Furious 7" made.
And now it'll be a very interesting battle between "Avengers 2: Age Of Ultron" and "Furious 7". The latter now stands at a global box office total of $1,428,539,000, which comes very close to the 2012 "Avengers"; $1,518,594,910.
That's what I've done with superhero movies. I got sick of them so I don't go to see them anymore. There have been some good ones though. I thought The Dark Knight trilogy was fantastic and the Tim Burton Batman films, Iron Man, Avengers Assemble and Iron Man 3 were all a lot of fun.
Well, with COD, "Run here, shoot him" is tired no matter what, because so many other games do it. With Assassin's Creed, "Run across building" is so tired, I'd rather they just retire the series.
There have been some brilliantly original superhero properties. Kick Ass was a fantastic film that managed to subvert the genre, providing a fresh, funny, violent and clever real world, 18 rated take on superheroes. Misfits was another brilliant, original, funny, 18 rated take on the genre. Chronicle was another great one, a found footage superhero film that also worked as a drama about a damaged teen.
If there was more stuff like this then it wouldn't be a problem. The problem isn't that there are too many superhero films. The problem is they're all too similar.
I really enjoyed the film but I don't think it's fair to include Kingsman in the discussion, it's based on a comic but it's not a superhero film. Garfield was based on a comic but that doesn't belong in this discussion either. Comic book doesn't necessarily mean superhero. There are too many superhero films but there can't really be too many comic book films. It'd be like saying there are too many films based on books.
I played a tiny bit of Black Flag, but even the boat mechanics weren't enough to drive me back to the series. I do agree, that if it isn't broke, don't fix it, but the problem then is that you start veering into broken record territory very quickly. Back in the PS1 days, when Resident Evil 1, 2, 3, Code Veronica, Zero were occasionally given kicks right up the ass for being too similar, despite various changes here and there, and those games were released at uneven times between 1996 and 2002. COD, Assassin's Creed (I cut sports games a bit of slack; how you really gonna change that within the confines of being like the real sport?), Battlefield... these games are released once a year, and broken record territory can set in quickly because of that.
However, this topic is neither here nor there, and we could discuss it on a different thread.
Spider-Man (2002) Tropic Thunder, Iron Man and MIB3 are very good movies and inspecialy first season of Arrow be great.
Singer's 'X-men' started the revival - Nolan's Batman trilogy perfected it - and now Marvel are milking it.
I love the Dark Knight trilogy to bits, and I think a big reason for that is that there is not tons of CGI and I don't feel like I'm watching a video game. The characters feel real and not plastic and superficial. When I get movies where main character(s) have actual superpowers, fight but are not in real danger anyway, destroy buildings or cities and there's plenty of CGI I get bored pretty quick. Clearly that's a matter of taste, though. A hell of a lot of people absolutely love The Avengers, and when I finally saw it recently I kept hoping it would stop being boring, and get better, but it just got worse, and I never figured out why people thought it was fun. I'm guessing people who loved it likely enjoy Avengers 2 as well, so for them it's obviously not too much at all.
If the question is about box office results, then I don't really care that much. I must say though, that I'm very grateful that the mere 370+ million that Batman Begins made at the box office wasn't considered too little to continue that saga...
Age of Ultron was a great movie whose greatest strength lies in the director Whedon who handles multicasts as if he done nothing else his whole live, and the wicked sense of humour he injects in his movies are very recognizable.
WIth him gone I fear for the next two installments of the Avengers.
I will enjoy the next X man movie, Cap America, Thor, Iron man because they in themselves seem to have found a great voice as well. And like the comics each comes with his own fans, that said Robert Downey Jr does reign surpreme in most of his roles I would not mind a third Holmes movie).
I think that the saturation point has not been reached just like the comics are still going strong. I think the failing lies in the attempts to update and rejuvenate franchises like they did with Spiderman, Superman or even Batman. But it seems that the DC franchises do take themselves to bloody serious while the Marvel universe seems to chose a more wicked course in style and humour, and it clearly works.
My wife is not interested in the whole Comic stuff but she always tags along with dad and daughters and admits that the movies do not fail to entertain and that Thor, Cap and Downey Jr makes pleasurable viewing. And she enjoys her daughters fun with the Black Widow.
As long as Marvel keeps their movies fun and light and exciting they will be able to kick DC movies under the grass. And I do believe that the antidote that the Marvel movies are against all the grittiness in other movies works like a charm.
Also, MCU is betting on different horses already. Thor 2 was a fantasy film with a simple logic, Cap 2 was a serious film with a darker, political subtext. Some gravitate more towards the first, others towards the second, and both will pay at least one ticket every one or two years.
Furthermore, superhero tales never cease to entertain people. Around 2005, the modest BO performance of Batman Begins got me to think that superhero fatigue had kicked in. Then, in 2008, Iron Man and The Dark Knight took the BO by storm. People like this stuff. Even if it's not lifted from the pages of a comic book, many of the most successful movies ever feature superheroes of sorts: Star Wars, Avatar, Pirates, Lord Of The Rings, ... Superhero stories have been told for ages: the Trojan War, Beowulf, ... We are fascinated by the adventures of those who have abilities we all secretly love to have. Especially in these times of constant terrorism threats and whatnot, superhero films give us something to fantasize about.
Marvel and DC needn't worry. The worst that can happen is that they need to take a short break. Then some genius will show up with an Iron Man or Dark Knight, and a new cycle of major successes has begun...
Hits: X-Men, Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, X2, Batman Begins
Near-misses: Daredevil (people look at the Director's Cut favorably), Punisher, Blade II, Hellboy, Fantastic Four, Sin City, 300, Superman Returns (I look at it more favorably after Man of Steel), V for Vendetta
Absolute sh*t: Elektra, Hulk, Blade Trinity, X-Men The Last Stand, Spider-Man 3, Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer, Ghost Rider, Daredevil (theatrical, yes, it gets on this list twice), Catwoman (oh dear lord, Catwoman), Son of the Mask
That's 10 sh*t films, 9 near-misses and 5 hits. 5 of them. That's 5 good films in 8 years, with an average of a little over one movie per year for the sh*t films. That's twice as much sh*t to hits. Why?
Now let's take a look at 2008-2014 (Age of Ultron will not be counted in this)...
Hits: Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man, X-Men First Class, X-Men Days of Future Past, The Wolverine, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America The Winter Soldier, Thor, The Avengers, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises, Thor The Dark World, Captain America The First Avenger, Watchmen
Near-misses: Hellboy 2, The Incredible Hulk, Man of Steel, 300 Rise of an Empire, The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Absolute sh*t: X-Men Origins Wolverine, Green Lantern, The Spirit, Sin City A Dame to Kill For
Hits are now the majority, with 16 films, near-misses have dropped to 5 films, and sh*t to 4 films. Both sh*t and near-misses have decreased, while hits have increased exponentially.
We're not just looking at an increase in viewers, we're looking at an increase in quality. Even the near-misses of this period have a great deal more quality than the near-misses of the previous one. The sh*t is still sh*t (I'm looking at you Green Lantern...), and some of it has gotten worse (I'm looking at you Green Lantern...).
If people start getting tired of super hero films now, they're writing off the best period in the super hero film since Christopher Reeve proved that a man could fly and refused to kneel before Zod. Do we have more super hero movies than ever? Yes. They're still g*ddamned amazing, though.