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Will Mendes & co. repeat SF 'formula' in SPECTRE..?

AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
in SPECTRE Posts: 1,727
Watching MR yesterday it struck me that there are several ‘twinned’ Bond movies that more or less repeated the formula of their predecessor…

TB sort of did this after GF (More elaborate PTS, Aston Martin, showdown with villain in a vehicle, tone much more in line with GF than FRWL, etc.) - TMWTGG is a LALD ‘light’, if you will - MR definitely did this after TSWLM (blatantly so) – QoS repeated the high kinetic Bourne-inspired element of CR.

I am rather thinking that we will get a similar formula to SF for SP, ie. the story will be internally driven by some (past) personal issues of Bond and M, we will get the same tone (lighter than CR and QoS) and lots of references to past 007 icons…

Mendes has patted himself on the back far too often for his ‘masterpiece’ that was SF (not helped by the partly undeserved hype and box-office success of SF…), he thinks he is the second coming of Terence Young or something, so I am pretty sure he will continue along the same road with ‘Spectre’ (B24).

I am hoping I’m wrong - that the promise of ‘getting back to business as usual’ which was laid out for all to see at the end of SF will come to be and that we don’t simply get ‘SkyFall mk. II’, but I’m not so sure to be honest...

Comments

  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    Well reasoned. Never realised that Bond "twin movie" effect before, I have to admit. You very well might have a point there.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    " Same old Skyfall, but even more so !" ;)
    I expect a similar, but slightly more traditional Bond film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,544
    John Glen jumped from AVTAK to TLD to LTK, three rather different films. I don't necessarily expect Mendes to repeat himself. Isn't he one of those 'art' filmmakers? Aren't they easily bored of doing the same thing? ;-) I could be wrong of course.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    AceHole wrote:
    he thinks he is the second coming of Terence Young or something

    Mendes is easily the best director ever to direct a Bond film, there is no reason for him to think he is only as good as Terence Young.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,570
    John Glen was never the sort of director who had a style of his own - a journeyman director ticking boxes.

    The ones in the opening post eg TSWLM - MR, LALD-TMWTGG are a case of same director repeating what worked before as best they can.
    GF - TB? Different directors and I can't see any particular signs of Terence Young trying to carry on Lewis Hamilton's style, although I agree the similar tone is more apparent than it is with earlier Young films. The TB editing however, especially in the fight sequences, reminds me more of FRWL.

    CR - QOS? Can't really see any similar style - just a companion piece for storytelling purposes.

  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    "undeserved box-office success of SF" - undeserved @AceHole? Personally every Bond film deserves to make a billion dollars, regardless of their actual artistic merits. ;-)
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,727
    royale65 wrote: »
    "undeserved box-office success of SF" - undeserved @AceHole? Personally every Bond film deserves to make a billion dollars, regardless of their actual artistic merits. ;-)

    Ouch! Misquoted... the horror, the horror!! :>

    'not helped by the partly undeserved hype and box-office success of SF'
    -> 'undeserved' was only applicable to 'the hype' - not 'the box-office success'.

    I can see how it could be interpreted that way...
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,727
    NicNac wrote: »
    CR - QOS? Can't really see any similar style - just a companion piece for storytelling purposes.

    CR's hard edged, 'realistic' (by 007 standards) style was taken to the extreme in QoS (minus the story). I see some attempt at creating a follow up with the same ingredient that was praised in CR...
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,727
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    AceHole wrote:
    he thinks he is the second coming of Terence Young or something

    Mendes is easily the best director ever to direct a Bond film, there is no reason for him to think he is only as good as Terence Young.

    With respect to Bondfilms, Terence Young is still the standard that has yet to be matched.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    AceHole wrote: »
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    AceHole wrote:
    he thinks he is the second coming of Terence Young or something

    Mendes is easily the best director ever to direct a Bond film, there is no reason for him to think he is only as good as Terence Young.

    With respect to Bondfilms, Terence Young is still the standard that has yet to be matched.

    I agree with this and I dare say that Campbell has done a remarkable job in continuing the legacy that Young started us off with. That being said, best director, best actor, best whatever is indeed crucial but it by no means counts unless we see it with these Bond films. Craig may arguably be the best actor to be cast as Bond but there's no way he trumps Connery and it has nothing to do with Sean being cast first. Look at Campbell outside of Bond I'm not particularly interested in the guy but his 2 movies are excellent. Bloody excellent and his contributions to the series are almost without fault.

    Mendes, however, did a very good job with SF, if we forget the script for a second, his talents purely as a director in filming, framing and his overall stewardship was for the most highly commendable given the scale of these productions and his inexperience in working with this sort of film. That being said, with the cast, locations and some of the set pieces we do know of for SPECTRE, on paper, SPECTRE could end up being one of the best Bond movies made and if it is a success by way of completely blowing SF out of the water (I'm not talking financially here) but purely as an exciting and gripping piece of art then Mendes for all intents and purposes has every chance and opportunity to take the 2nd place spot of directors who've made a Bond film. On principle a Kong, however, he'd need to make a minimum of 3 movies to tie or beat Young but that's my own personal reasoning on that one.

    To sum things up, although SPECTRE will expand on some if the themes that occurred in SF, SPECTRE will definitely be it's own film, it's already easy to see how different it is from an atmosphere and scale perspective it is from SF. I think we're all going to be surprised with what Mendes brings. If you look at GE and CR, again, purely from the way the movies were directed, they look like they weren't directed by the same man.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,727
    doubleoego wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    AceHole wrote:
    he thinks he is the second coming of Terence Young or something

    Mendes is easily the best director ever to direct a Bond film, there is no reason for him to think he is only as good as Terence Young.

    With respect to Bondfilms, Terence Young is still the standard that has yet to be matched.

    I agree with this and I dare say that Campbell has done a remarkable job in continuing the legacy that Young started us off with. That being said, best director, best actor, best whatever is indeed crucial but it by no means counts unless we see it with these Bond films. Craig may arguably be the best actor to be cast as Bond but there's no way he trumps Connery and it has nothing to do with Sean being cast first. Look at Campbell outside of Bond I'm not particularly interested in the guy but his 2 movies are excellent. Bloody excellent and his contributions to the series are almost without fault.

    Mendes, however, did a very good job with SF, if we forget the script for a second, his talents purely as a director in filming, framing and his overall stewardship was for the most highly commendable given the scale of these productions and his inexperience in working with this sort of film. That being said, with the cast, locations and some of the set pieces we do know of for SPECTRE, on paper, SPECTRE could end up being one of the best Bond movies made and if it is a success by way of completely blowing SF out of the water (I'm not talking financially here) but purely as an exciting and gripping piece of art then Mendes for all intents and purposes has every chance and opportunity to take the 2nd place spot of directors who've made a Bond film. On principle a Kong, however, he'd need to make a minimum of 3 movies to tie or beat Young but that's my own personal reasoning on that one.

    To sum things up, although SPECTRE will expand on some if the themes that occurred in SF, SPECTRE will definitely be it's own film, it's already easy to see how different it is from an atmosphere and scale perspective it is from SF. I think we're all going to be surprised with what Mendes brings. If you look at GE and CR, again, purely from the way the movies were directed, they look like they weren't directed by the same man.

    Interesting points @ doubleoego.

    Regarding Craig and Mendes - I am hopeful that their undoubted potential will come to fruition in SP, as they could become the best Bondactor/director combo in the series' history, IF they get a few more details right and take their craft to the next level, of which they are most definitely capable...
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    They are definitely capable and I really hope we get something exceptionally special because what SPECTRE proposes to be sounds truly magnificent and I just hope they really deliver.
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    While I completely agree about TSWLM/ MR,which is the reason I seconded you spontaneously, I made my mind up about CR/QoS and have to say I have come to the conclusion that is much more of an antithesis to CR. Just about everything in it is done in an opposite way. While the second part of CR kind of drags QoS speeds through from start to finish. CR is ( together with OHMSS, which I think heavily inspired QoS editing) the longest Bond movie, Quantum the shortest. Also CRs Bond is kind of plebeian,that of QoS appears completely refined.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    While I completely agree about TSWLM/ MR,which is the reason I seconded you spontaneously, I made my mind up about CR/QoS and have to say I have come to the conclusion that is much more of an antithesis to CR. Just about everything in it is done in an opposite way. While the second part of CR kind of drags QoS speeds through from start to finish. CR is ( together with OHMSS, which I think heavily inspired QoS editing) the longest Bond movie, Quantum the shortest. Also CRs Bond is kind of plebeian,that of QoS appears completely refined.

    I agree with this completely. I have never seen two Bond films featuring the same actor that came sequentially and are so different in flavour, except maybe MR to FYEO which both featured Moore.

    Only the way the fights were done were similar to some extent (kinetic and immediate). Everything else was quite different. There is absolutely no breathing room in QoS, intentionally......tons of breathing room in CR (almost old-fashioned in pace).

    I think Mendes will borrow what worked in SF but will mix it up a bit (since he's an arthouse guy). Expect the same humour, less violent fights compared to QoS/CR, but everything a little grander IMO. From the most recent rumours, the same drama/personal element will exist.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    ( together with OHMSS, which I think heavily inspired QoS editing) the longest Bond movie, Quantum the shortest. Also CRs Bond is kind of plebeian,that of QoS appears completely refined.

    In what ways was Bond "more refined" in QoS than CR?

    If your theory is correct OP I just hope they plug the plotholes (I believe Mendes more or less admitted that SF has significant ones when he said they'd had someone go over the SPECTRE script to plug them) and bring back a bit of fun.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    bondjames wrote: »
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    While I completely agree about TSWLM/ MR,which is the reason I seconded you spontaneously, I made my mind up about CR/QoS and have to say I have come to the conclusion that is much more of an antithesis to CR. Just about everything in it is done in an opposite way. While the second part of CR kind of drags QoS speeds through from start to finish. CR is ( together with OHMSS, which I think heavily inspired QoS editing) the longest Bond movie, Quantum the shortest. Also CRs Bond is kind of plebeian,that of QoS appears completely refined.

    I agree with this completely. I have never seen two Bond films featuring the same actor that came sequentially and are so different in flavour, except maybe MR to FYEO which both featured Moore.

    Only the way the fights were done were similar to some extent (kinetic and immediate). Everything else was quite different. There is absolutely no breathing room in QoS, intentionally......tons of breathing room in CR (almost old-fashioned in pace).

    I think Mendes will borrow what worked in SF but will mix it up a bit (since he's an arthouse guy). Expect the same humour, less violent fights compared to QoS/CR, but everything a little grander IMO. From the most recent rumours, the same drama/personal element will exist.

    I really hope not and to be honest I don't see that happening. For starters, with SF Mendes was wet behind the ears with this sort of movie production and as Gary Powell put it, SF was merely Mendes getting his feet wet. Secondly, other movies and tv shows are putting the fights in SF to shame, the winter soldier is a good example of how to improve and step things up with the action for which it got praised for; thirdly SF received some criticism particularly from the Chinese market saying the action really was underwhelming which I agree with; appealing to such a market is crucial financially speaking if we're hunting for that $billion mark; fourthly with Bautista being cast and the role he plays in the film, it's expected for the altercations to be highly visceral, kinetic and ferocious and lastly, SPECTRE has hired Olivier Schneider to choreograph the fights, the guy is absolutely amazing and judging by his work, he doesn't get hired for the rubbish we got in SF; we should be in for a real aggressive and violent treat with the fights for this movie.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ......less violent fights compared to QoS/CR, but everything a little grander IMO. From the most recent rumours, the same drama/personal element will exist.

    I really hope not and to be honest I don't see that happening. For starters, with SF Mendes was wet behind the ears with this sort of movie production and as Gary Powell put it, SF was merely Mendes getting his feet wet. Secondly, other movies and tv shows are putting the fights in SF to shame, the winter soldier is a good example of how to improve and step things up with the action for which it got praised for; thirdly SF received some criticism particularly from the Chinese market saying the action really was underwhelming which I agree with; appealing to such a market is crucial financially speaking if we're hunting for that $billion mark; fourthly with Bautista being cast and the role he plays in the film, it's expected for the altercations to be highly visceral, kinetic and ferocious and lastly, SPECTRE has hired Olivier Schneider to choreograph the fights, the guy is absolutely amazing and judging by his work, he doesn't get hired for the rubbish we got in SF; we should be in for a real aggressive and violent treat with the fights for this movie.

    I hope you're right.

    I'm not advocating for what we got in SF, which was garbage in the fights dept., particularly after the excellence we got in CR & QoS (bad editing in the latter aside).

    I realize the Asian market may want more fisticuffs, but I think Mendes may want to balance that requirement with the need to appeal to some of the older crowd & female crowd Stateside who may (may) want less violence and more emotion.

    We are likely to get better fights than SF (not difficult to do) but I don't think they will be as violent as some us (myself included) would like.
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