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Dumping of Mathis's body in QoS

imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
edited June 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 972
I didn't think or felt much abt the scene where Bond dumped Mathis's body in the dumpster after he died.. But after my recent viewing of the movie again, that scene really disturbed me. Dumping a dead friend into a dumpster, it just didn't feel right... I'm sure there could have been a better way rather than dumping him with garbage at a nearby dumpster.. What does everyone here think about that scene?
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Comments

  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,630
    It was to make Mathis's death seem like a robbery... Bond said that he wouldn't care because, Mathis really cared for James.
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    It was to make Mathis's death seem like a robbery... Bond said that he wouldn't care because, Mathis really cared for James.
    Agreed, it was to make it look like a robbery and buy a bit more time, if only a little. When Bond said that Mathis wouldn't care it's because when you sign up for the spy life your first duty is always to the mission. Even in death someone can be useful - as a very wise man once said :-)

  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    Well said. Agreed that the scene isn't in the best of taste and I can understand objections, but it is a definite play on what Mathis said in Casino Royale and you can understand in that context the purpose of Bond rifling his wallet and leaving his body where he did. I think Bond's cold answer to Camille probably figures into people's impressions of the scene.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I've mixed feelings about the scene to be honest. I understand what's it's trying to do in showing how survival and "the job" come first and in fairness it is pretty well acted. However it seemed as If the producers were trying a bit too hard to make Bond look cold and uncaring. When does Bond do anything remotely like that in the Fleming books?

    It just doesn't make Bond or Mathis look very dignified and I can understand why people are critical of the sequence.

    Bond could have at least covered his face up with a blanket or something.

  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    in all honesty.... what were we expecting? Bond to break down and weep??..... lol i am being factious.... but i digress..

    the scene reminds a lot of when 007 is told about, and then shown the dead body of Kerim in "From Russia With Love"..... in both instances, both men were murdered by the enemy - coldly i might add... and both times, James shows a bit of sadness for his fallen friend, but also carries on with the rest of the mission - like he is supposed to......

    it's not that Bond doesn't care - he does.... but what is supposed to do? it's obvious he couldn't call authorities, they were in the pocket of Greene.
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    If was so ( bleep)ed of when they killed him, he was a amazing charictor and Flemming would be proud.

    Actually bring him back, don't care if it's to east endersy

    LAlalalalala not listening logic %-(
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    edited June 2011 Posts: 1,492
    this was one scene where I was well and truly shocked. How could he do this to the warm Mathis.

    Which proves what a good scene it was.

    As for leaving him in the rubbish bin. Robbery bodies turn up in such places all over Latin America, Also in the books I dont remember him breaking down and crying over the death of Quarrel or Darko Kerim. The only ones he gets worked up about are Tracy, Vesper and Felix Leiter.

    A very dark scene but one perfectly in tune with QoS. Like the film, underated.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    No one is expecting Bond to cry or break down over his friend's death. However, having him put Mathis into a rubbish bin just seemed a bit...crass. To be honest that scene is probably the least of Quantum's problems and inconsistancies but still, people who criticise it are justified.

    It's one of those scenes that probably sounded really good on paper but the final result is somewhat controversial. In fact that's the problem with QoS in general, good on paper but on film it doesn't seem to work.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    I am not for or against the scene of Mathis' death, but I feel robbed by his death so early in Craig's era... He was a great character, and I would've liked to see him in more outings with Craig... and in a bigger role. Just like Wright's Leiter. Both Giannini and Wright are great, charismatic actor, they seem wasted in either 2 minutes roles, or deaths coming way too early.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I am not for or against the scene of Mathis' death, but I feel robbed by his death so early in Craig's era... He was a great character, and I would've liked to see him in more outings with Craig... and in a bigger role. Just like Wright's Leiter. Both Giannini and Wright are great, charismatic actor, they seem wasted in either 2 minutes roles, or deaths coming way too early.
    I agree with you DC. It does seem a bit of a shame that Mathis was somewhat underused and killed off so early.

    Also, if QoS was set so soon after CR then how come Mathis had already recovered from his ordeal and was living a life of luxury with his mistress? Presumably he was interrogated at length, maybe even tortured after they took him away in Royale :-?

    Silly film ;)

  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492

    Also, if QoS was set so soon after CR then how come Mathis had already recovered from his ordeal and was living a life of luxury with his mistress? Presumably he was interrogated at length, maybe even tortured after they took him away in Royale :-?

    Silly film ;)

    I'd have thought the best way to recover was to retreat to your pad on Lago di Como with your mistress and wines.

    Also, theres at least a couple of days between Siena and 007 visiting him - after all we have had Port au Prince and Bregenz in the meantime. Time enough to recover for a tough old bird like Mathis.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    It still felt like the time gap was too short. Mathis was suspected of being involved with a major criminal organisation that threatened innocent people. He was possibly a traitor, thinking about it it seems they let him off too quickly.

    It felt like Bond and Mathis were meeting for the first time in a while.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    I'm with @haserot. I saw a little of the FRWL scenario when Bond finds Kerim's body. He meets Kerim's son on the station, tells him his father is dead and immediately follows it up with 'I need your help' and it's all about the mission regardless of the boy's feelings.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    It still felt like the time gap was too short. Mathis was suspected of being involved with a major criminal organisation that threatened innocent people. He was possibly a traitor, thinking about it it seems they let him off too quickly.

    It felt like Bond and Mathis were meeting for the first time in a while.
    They seem to act as if CR was in 2006 and QOS in 2008 (based on the movies' releases)... but the time felt much shorter indeed.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    But bond doesn't throw Kerim into a bin ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    I much prefer Moore dumping the pilot's body down the helicopter in FYEO, with Blofeld "Really 007 Have you got no respect for the dead ??"... Priceless !! :-))

    No seriously the FRWL scene had much more class than Mathis' death in QOS. I didn't even felt moved by his death, while I was really saddened by Kerim's death.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I'm in partial agreement with DC. I think Mathis's death scene itself was pretty good but the bit with the bin just felt odd. It just seems disrespectful to a fallen ally regardless of the circumstances.

    Kerim's death seemed to be the more dignified and better handled of the two. Bond was upset but carried on. Likewise his son knew the risks the job and knew that death was part of it. Plus, as I said HE DOESN'T THROW KERIM INTO A BIN.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    But bond doesn't throw Kerim into a bin ;)
    You didn't see the director's cut where Bond tosses Kerim's body through the train window? ;-)
    In truth it's the fact that Bond pushes away any personal feelings, as he did in QoS, to concentrate on the mission.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2011 Posts: 15,690
    There is a difference between pushing away personal feelings and throwing someone into a bin.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    edited June 2011 Posts: 7,571
    There is a difference between pushing away personal feelings and throwing someone into a bin.
    I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm saying that the underlying theme in both scenes is that Bond has to push personal feelings away and concentrate on the mission.
    Therefore in FRWL he disregards Kerim's son's grief and demands help from him, so he (Bond) can escape.
    In QOS he makes Mathis's death look like a robbery, hence the body dump and the wallet being emptied. The mission is everything.

    The two films may be over 40 years apart but they do highlight a characteristic of Bond. Allowing sympathy for a dead colleague to cloud his judgement is not a weakness of his (unlike women)
  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    Posts: 2,782
    i love this scene - to me it sums up DC 's modern take of JB. On the surface a bit cold; but the emotion radiating through the screen from DC's performance upon seeing his friend dying is beautifully tragic. Dare I say a touch of PB after he killed Electra but without the ham.

    It's a classic scene for me for the new Bond era.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Why not just leave Mathis in the street or maybe just leave him BESIDE the bin? That wouldn't seem as crass as dumping him IN a bin.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I've mixed feelings about the scene to be honest. I understand what's it's trying to do in showing how survival and "the job" come first and in fairness it is pretty well acted. However it seemed as If the producers were trying a bit too hard to make Bond look cold and uncaring. When does Bond do anything remotely like that in the Fleming books?

    It just doesn't make Bond or Mathis look very dignified and I can understand why people are critical of the sequence.

    Bond could have at least covered his face up with a blanket or something.

    I dont think the intent was to make Bond come off as being cold and uncaring. You need to consider the events that were transpiring around him. Mathis was his only real useful ally out there and the people ho thought he could trust killed him and were on to Bond. Bond had to think on his feet. Being in the wet works business is filthy and with Mathis dead, his corpse was able to serve a purpose. It's uncomfortable but that is the reality of the job at hand. Dignity doesnt even come into it. Mathis was killed like some insignificant slum dog, at least Bond didn't just leave his body lying there in the middle of the street.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Here is the scene:

  • Mach2InfinityMach2Infinity Wales
    Posts: 74
    I love "Quantum of Solace", it's actually the film that 'sealed the deal' for me in regards to Daniel Craig. It then lead me to appreciating the first film and now I love it too. Even though the scene was very well acted and you do strongly get a sense of emotion from Bond -- where he remains composed -- I didn't quite like the dumping of Mathis by Bond. I perfectly understand why he did it, but it just felt undeserving of such a great character. I agree with the person above who said it felt as if the writers were trying too hard to make Bond seem aloof. I also think Mathis should not have been killed as he had great potential. Maybe they could bring in someone similar, but I think if they did so, it would feel too much of a Mathis 'knock-off'.

    Regardless, whoever failed to be moved by that scene, would have to be more dead than a plank of wood or Orlando Bloom; clearly not invested in the prior film.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Welcome @Mach2Infinity. Nice to see new members appreciating Mr Craig and not Orlando Bloom. ;-)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    Coming into this so late, it's hard to add or say anything that hasn't been said already.

    I think the ideas presented in the scene were great, it was an attempt to get back to a more From Russia With Love type scenario. My main problem is I don't think it fits with the film. As for the dumping of the body, I think I'm OK with it, it just doesn't fit in with everything else.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited June 2011 Posts: 7,978
    I don't care too much for the dumping, as I wouldn't mind being dumped, obviously, AFTER I was dead. Stressing the point that I would be very cross if anyone would dump me there whilst I was alive. Still, it has no purpose. Bond wonders why the police want him to open the trunk. Then he finds Mathis. So the police or Greene's men put him there and Bond would be blamed no matter the outcome. So why even try to make it look like a robbery?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2011 Posts: 15,690
    I haven't heard a lot of robberies on the news where the victim gets thrown into a bin...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,978
    Neither have I, but then again I seldom hear about robberies, and from my knowledge as a travelled person things go differently in different countries. But if it wasn't meant to look like a robbery, what purpose was there?
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