Die Another Day vs Quantum of Solace

Qantum of Solace vs Die Another Day...

both have bad gunbarrells
both have bad title theme music- Madonna/Jack White
both have poor editing
both are perhaps the worst films of the franchise

but i would defend Die Another Day for a couple of reasons- it has a strong first half, its more accurate to the moonraker book than moonraker, Brosnan is excellent and does well with what he is given (which isnt much), Rosmund Pike was the better bond girl but unfourtunately is killed instead of annoying catwoman Halle Berry..

the only good moments of QOS is the ending with M and Bond and the stationary scene are the only decent parts in that film the rest is utter crap...

BAIN123

Is the question which is better or which is worse?

Both are in my bottom 5 and for a while I'd have said DAD BUT Quantum now triumps as the better film. At least that doesn't have the worst moment of the entire franchise and follows up (a bit) on some of the ideas it set up.

Both also suffer from trying too hard to contemporise Bond and make him more "hip".

doubleoego

DAD isn't even a film, it's a mess of a parody.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Is this even a serious question? DAD is an absolute crock of a film on any level, with horrible music, completely wrecked second half, the worst Bond girl of the franchise(she did JINX us, and WE owe her a soda), full of missed opportunities, Graves talks like a motivation speaker more than a villain, and the ending is uggggh....(coughs on blood)....uggghhhhhh....

QoS actually has depth, and shows Bond in a very vulnerable emotional state. The editing may not be to everyone's liking, but I have gotten used to it and see it as just another facet of what QoS brings new to the franchise. The film is also very arty, with beautiful cinematography abounding. The action was great and exciting, and a Bond girl that Bond didn't sex up. Felix is present, and very good as he deals with the ignorance of Beam. They are so many great moments across this franchise, and QoS has two in the list. Bond meeting Greene and his boys coming down the stairs at the Bregenz Opera House, and the meeting between Bond and Yusef. QoS may not be CR, but that doesn't make it any less of a film and IS still are very good film. DAD, on the other hand, is not a good film on any standard, and the one I would choose to erase from the franchise if given the chance. I would rather watch a Roger Moore Bond marathon than see DAD another damn time. My mind cannot bear it... It is my belief that QoS will become more popular in the coming years. I used to despise it too, but after I took my bias for CR out of the equation, and stopped comparing the two, QoS itself stands as a good Bond film.

DarthDimi

My gut instinct tells me QoS is the better film. It has many flaws but DAD has many more. I suppose I'm no big fan of either film but there are moments when I can have some fun with them nevertheless. And as they are both Bond films, I still enjoy them infinitely better than most other movies.

Getafix

QoS is an infinitely superior film. Comparisons between the two are not easy to make since the quality is so utterly different. DUD is an unremittingly awful film from start to finish. The whole concept of Bond being kept prisoner by a pathetic Communist monarchy and not being able to escape for over a year (IMO) undermines everything that we know and love about Bond. Doubtless there is some precedent in the novels for this story line, but I found it completely destroys Bond's mistique and sense of invincibility. How pathetic has Bond become if he can't slip by a couple of North Korean guards and bosh Kim Il Jung en route to bedding the local totty at some hotel in Pyongyang?!

I've said it before, but the storylines and scripts, acting and production values during the Brozza era lost all concept of what the character is about. Not one of those 4 films stands comparison with the preceding films or, thank God, with what we've had from Craig.

QoS is not a classic, but it's not bad either. I am convinced its reputation will only improve over the years. The opera sequence, for instance, stands comparison with many a classic Bond film, with a genuinely Bondian mix of cool, tension, high-culture and cold-blooded action. I challenge any one to identify a single Brozza scene that comes remotely close.

Qantum of Solace is terrible and has nothing whatsoever to do with the iconic character of James Bond.

The main plot was the worst of any Bond movie. Instead of saving the world, Bond is saving the people of a 3rd world country a few pennies on their water bill. Instead of fighting for the good of the free world, Bond is on a heartless revenge killing spree, and the free world is portrayed as almost universally corrupt. But the worst offense is the contrived "explosive hotel" in the middle of nowhere, in the desert. I'll bet they get a lot of tourism there! At least its made of some kind of material that burns without a single trace of smoke... -groan-!

Craig is terrible as bond, he has no charisma whatsoever. He broods for the entire film, never smiling, never delivering that cheeky charm that Bond should (he got a few good lines in Casino). The main Bond girl is a bundle of laughs... no wait, strike that, she's a depressing lump. The CIA girl is actually OK but only sticks around for about 2 minutes before being killed. Felix, instead of being a smart, useful, and funny friend, is a waste of screen time and contributes nothing at all to the story. The villain does not even seem evil, just like a corrupt businessman (FAR from the world-domination-seeking villains of past). The deposed dictator is unbelievable and the implied rape scene at the end should NOT be in a bond film. .

The action scenes have such short cuts that you can't focus on any of them. The result is utter confusion about who is punching whom. There are obvious and avoidable errors such as cutting between two scenes and the actors have changed positions.

Franchise Loyalty: Rename the main character and you would never be able to guess that this is a Bond film. You would probably guess it's a Bourne film. I don't demand the clichés such as "Bond, James Bond" (though you certainly won't find that here). But I do demand that the main character be a likable British guy showing off cool spy gadgets and attacking problems with intelligence rather than always brute force. There were no gadgets-not a single one!-and Bond was a cold-blooded murderer.

This movie would be a below-average effort for a generic action flick. But putting the name "Bond" on it debases and defiles the Bond franchise. Those responsible for this atrocity such as Babs and Marc should be hunted down and killed for sport for what they've done...

id take Die Another Day anytime

DaltonCraig007

Based on my ranking...
DAD : 8th
QOS : 22nd.

So IMO DAD is a much better film than QOS.

BAIN123

Everyone keeps going on about the Tosca scene. I found it rather average tbh.

One thing I will give "DUD" is the swordfight scene. I know ppl can argue it's contrived and silly but it's well choreographed and supervised by a veteran who knew what he was doing.

I've grown to tolerate Quantum more but there's still something rather off about it. The story, as Dame Judy put it is "pretty thin" and the characters just don't havre that...something about them the boat chase is also one of the poorest chases in a bond film.

That said there are a few good scenes like...the final confrontation between Bond a jusef and some of the stuff with Bond and M. The direction itself is ok but, like DAD, contains some pointless shots (why did they have to point the camera up a potential rape victim's skirt, M was shot oh wait no she wasn't)

Quantum still has some cool beauty shots though and deserves credit for trying to continue the story in CR.

(I'd also take the BondTrevelyan meeting In GE over the Tosca scene anyday. At least the camera stands still.)

Agent007391

QoS is the better film by far, thanks to no space-based super weapons. Bond villain's do NOT need a Death Star, nor an equivalent of a Death Star (and before somebody points it out, yes, I know DAF predates Star Wars by six years, and so Bond villains had a Death Star first, technically).

However, DAD did have the sword fight at Blades, which is probably the best fight scene in the entire Brosnan era.

DaltonCraig007

BAIN123 said:
between Bond a jusef jusef

I beg your pardon ?

Agent007391

DaltonCraig007 said:

BAIN123 said:
between Bond a jusef jusef

I beg your pardon ?

Slang perhaps?

DaltonCraig007

@Agent007391 while the sword fight in DAD was great, my favorite fight scene of the Brosnan era is the Bond/Trevelyan cradle fight.

Agent007391

That fight went on a little too long for me. It was mainly that long, drawn out sequence of Bond slowly following Trevelyn around the cradle down to that work shed that for some reason was at the very bottom, interesting containing a ladder down to a platform that had no purpose.

DaltonCraig007

Isn't the sword fight longer ?

Agent007391

Yes, but there are no slow parts. My main problem with the Bond/Trevelyn fight in GE is that part where Bond is just slowly walking around the cradle, finds his blood, does a little more walking, and then I think he gets kicked (though I just watched the movie two weeks ago, I seem to have forgotten it a little). If they were to take out that little slow part, I think the scene would flow better (the little location jump notwithstanding).

Getafix

002 said:
Qantum of Solace is terrible and has nothing whatsoever to do with the iconic character of James Bond.

The main plot was the worst of any Bond movie. Instead of saving the world, Bond is saving the people of a 3rd world country a few pennies on their water bill. Instead of fighting for the good of the free world, Bond is on a heartless revenge killing spree, and the free world is portrayed as almost universally corrupt. But the worst offense is the contrived "explosive hotel" in the middle of nowhere, in the desert. I'll bet they get a lot of tourism there! At least its made of some kind of material that burns without a single trace of smoke... -groan-!

Craig is terrible as bond, he has no charisma whatsoever. He broods for the entire film, never smiling, never delivering that cheeky charm that Bond should (he got a few good lines in Casino). The main Bond girl is a bundle of laughs... no wait, strike that, she's a depressing lump. The CIA girl is actually OK but only sticks around for about 2 minutes before being killed. Felix, instead of being a smart, useful, and funny friend, is a waste of screen time and contributes nothing at all to the story. The villain does not even seem evil, just like a corrupt businessman (FAR from the world-domination-seeking villains of past). The deposed dictator is unbelievable and the implied rape scene at the end should NOT be in a bond film. .

The action scenes have such short cuts that you can't focus on any of them. The result is utter confusion about who is punching whom. There are obvious and avoidable errors such as cutting between two scenes and the actors have changed positions.

Franchise Loyalty: Rename the main character and you would never be able to guess that this is a Bond film. You would probably guess it's a Bourne film. I don't demand the clichés such as "Bond, James Bond" (though you certainly won't find that here). But I do demand that the main character be a likable British guy showing off cool spy gadgets and attacking problems with intelligence rather than always brute force. There were no gadgets-not a single one!-and Bond was a cold-blooded murderer.

This movie would be a below-average effort for a generic action flick. But putting the name "Bond" on it debases and defiles the Bond franchise. Those responsible for this atrocity such as Babs and Marc should be hunted down and killed for sport for what they've done...

id take Die Another Day anytime

It's funny. I agree with quite a lot of what you say, but I still see QoS as infinitely better than the Brozza films. Generally though, I concur with your thesis that the recent outings have lost any clear sense of 'who' or 'what' Bond is. The complex moral themes that have crept in don't belong in a Bond movie, as once you start exploring this faux-reality stuff you undermine the entire fantasy world in which our hero exists.

Btw, I don't believe there is a 'CIA girl' in QoS. I believe the female you are referring to is an MI6 field agent...

Zekidk

002 said:
Qantum of Solace vs Die Another Day...

both have poor editing
both are perhaps the worst films of the franchise

I disagree. The editing of DAD is on par with the rest of the Bond-movies, whereas the editing of QoS almost ruined the movie for me.

And the first hour of DAD is the best part of the entire Brosnan-era, IMO. From the hovercraft-chase, to bearded Bond to Cuba to the intense sword-fight back in UK! Great stuff!

Getafix

Zekidk said:

002 said:
Qantum of Solace vs Die Another Day...

both have poor editing
both are perhaps the worst films of the franchise

I disagree. The editing of DAD is on par with the rest of the Bond-movies, whereas the editing of QoS almost ruined the movie for me.

And the first hour of DAD is the best part of the entire Brosnan-era, IMO. From the hovercraft-chase, to bearded Bond to Cuba to the intense sword-fight back in UK! Great stuff!

I'm sorry, but DUD is the worst Bond film ever. Period. It is mainly by comparison with such dross that QoS appears to be actually not too bad.

DarthDimi

Agent007391 said:
That fight went on a little too long for me. It was mainly that long, drawn out sequence of Bond slowly following Trevelyn around the cradle down to that work shed that for some reason was at the very bottom, interesting containing a ladder down to a platform that had no purpose.

That fight is great for all the right reasons.

A) No music while both man are dealing out punches. I love it when the filmmakers can control themselves and allow us to experience the thrills without music forcing us to get the vibe of it all.

B) Good editing. In a film that overall doesn't work from the fast cut / shaky cam manual, a one time only moment of fast cuts and whatnot really pulls the job off well.

C) Both Brosnan and Bean are into this fight 150 %. They mean business, the acting is nearly flawless. Good physical performances too.

D) This is basically the clash of the titans moment in the film. Finally, Bond gets a chance to kick some of his vengeance anger into Trevelyan for the latter's betrayal as a colleague, fellow Brit and friend. Obviously we want this thing to build, not be over in sixteen seconds.

E) They don't excessively intercut to Boris trying to grab hold of the satellite again, which is exactly what George Lucas would have done. I love the fact that they give us this moment from start to finish and turn it into an awesome confrontation.

Zekidk

Getafix said:

Zekidk said:

002 said:
Qantum of Solace vs Die Another Day...

both have poor editing
both are perhaps the worst films of the franchise

I disagree. The editing of DAD is on par with the rest of the Bond-movies, whereas the editing of QoS almost ruined the movie for me.

And the first hour of DAD is the best part of the entire Brosnan-era, IMO. From the hovercraft-chase, to bearded Bond to Cuba to the intense sword-fight back in UK! Great stuff!

I'm sorry, but DUD is the worst Bond film ever. Period.

Please don't tell me what my opinion is! Unlike you - I'm not presenting my opinion as facts! I'm merely saying that I find the first hour of DAD to be the best of the Brosnan-era. Have a problem with that? Fine with me!

Agent007391

DarthDimi said:

Agent007391 said:
That fight went on a little too long for me. It was mainly that long, drawn out sequence of Bond slowly following Trevelyn around the cradle down to that work shed that for some reason was at the very bottom, interesting containing a ladder down to a platform that had no purpose.

That fight is great for all the right reasons.

A) No music while both man are dealing out punches. I love it when the filmmakers can control themselves and allow us to experience the thrills without music forcing us to get the vibe of it all.

B) Good editing. In a film that overall doesn't work from the fast cut / shaky cam manual, a one time only moment of fast cuts and whatnot really pulls the job off well.

C) Both Brosnan and Bean are into this fight 150 %. They mean business, the acting is nearly flawless. Good physical performances too.

D) This is basically the clash of the titans moment in the film. Finally, Bond gets a chance to kick some of his vengeance anger into Trevelyan for the latter's betrayal as a colleague, fellow Brit and friend. Obviously we want this thing to build, not be over in sixteen seconds.

E) They don't excessively intercut to Boris trying to grab hold of the satellite again, which is exactly what George Lucas would have done. I love the fact that they give us this moment from start to finish and turn it into an awesome confrontation.

I don't hate the fight, I just think it was a little too long and a little too slow. Not to mention the oddly nonsensical location design (even for a Bond movie).

SaintMark

DAD is a much better 007 movie even if some of it is silly. QoS in comparison lacks decently edited actionscenes, a decent story and most of all a heart.

DAD any day of the week and in the weekend twice.

haserot

i prefer QOS any day of the week over DAD...... DAD has firmly cemented itself at #22 in my Bond films ranking, and unless Doc Brown and Marty go back in time and change some history... it's going to stay there.

DAD is one of those Bond films, thats fun to watch when you have a drinking game to go along with it... it's almost too shameless to watch at times - simply because it tries way too friggin' hard to pay homage, and yet be "cutting edge and trendy" - almost like a 2 hour MTV music video...it does have a strong 1st half, I will give it that.. but the second half is so outlandishly bad that it kills any momentum the story was trying to build up - like a car slamming into a brick wall.. and the aftermath of said wreck is as unbearable to look at it, as a lot of the film... perhaps, had they done a few things differently - it could've been better... still a shoddy film, but fun and forgivable at times - like Diamonds Are Forever.... but, we got what we got..

I prefer QOS's grounded approach, and it's direct contrast in style and tone to DAD... while the action was hindered by frenetic camera movements, and mashed up editing - I thought the rest of the film holds up well, despite shooting with an unfinished script... it's not a great Bond movie, the plot is "okay" nothing special, but not terrible.... it's not a count down to nuclear annihilation like some would want.. but it's about as average as LTK's plot was.. - but I enjoy this film, a lot.. it's visual flair is something I can always take away from it.. it's distinct, and has it's own style - and that regard, it stands out visually against the Bond films of the past 2 decades (especially the often bland looking Glen films)... but as much props as I give Forster for creating some stunning visuals - he really had no clue how to handle the action, and the direction he chose was wrong... Craig seems more relaxed in this outing, letting his guard down a little, and giving out a few dry quips which had me chuckling through the film.. but by the end, he seemed to really take command of the role, and the scene between him and Yusef is brilliant.

Samuel001

Not worth answering, I mean, come on...

Agent007391

haserot said:
i prefer QOS any day of the week over DAD...... DAD has firmly cemented itself at #22 in my Bond films ranking, and unless Doc Brown and Marty go back in time and change some history... it's going to stay there.

Doc: "Marty! What are you doing in the DeLorean?"
Marty: "Doc, I've got to do this! Die Another Day and Parkinson's have ruined my life, and I've got to stop them both!"

DaltonCraig007

I'll agree with @haserot - QOS had a very good visual style, the best since MR IMO. Glen's cinematography was mindblowingly dull, GE was a bit too cold for my liking, TND was unmemorable, Apted actually made a worse looking film than Glen, DAD had good visual style apart from the CGI, CR I didn't like with it's over-saturated look.

Risico007

Quantum of solace easily. It's my second favorite bond film (though come November it might become my third) I am clearly (and proudly) a Craig/Dalton fan So while some love the jokey tongue in cheek bond I prefer the dark sophisticated and far deadlier bond. Die another day could of been great but it wasn't It's not my least favorite bond film DAF has that honor. From the gripping car chase to the closing moments with Bond and M it's a brilliant film. and I'm hoping Skyfall will stop the QOS bashing as I don't keep posting how bland Diamonds are forever is as I know some here love that film and I don't want to go around annoying people.

top 5 btw

Casino Royale
Quantum of Solace
From Russia With Love
Licence to Kill
The Living Daylights (though sometimes these films get switched)

slyfox

Both rank in the bottom half for me, but DAD lies in a deep and dark hole of the bottom.

Some of my thoughts:

Bond performance
DC wins it for me. I find PB comes across like he is acting the whole time. "So I'm going AAFTA him" etc. I can't get over the variation to PB's Bond performances. He seems like a different character to the one who starred in GE. Craig has less to say but his delivery is great.
Villains
Its creepy but discreet villain (QOS) vs pantomine Bond villain (DAD). I find Toby's performance over the top, cringeworthy even. Whilst Greene will not go down as one of my favourites its a unique new take on a villain.
Bond girls
Jinx is a joke. Over time I've actually gone off Miranda Frost's performance. Fields was under-used. I felt she wasn't around long enough for me to trully judge whether I liked her or not. Camille played her part well as a vulnerable and bruised soul.
Film Length
QOS is too short for me, but DAD is too long! The Korean and plane scenes dragggg.
Use of CGI
I hate the skydiving scene in QOS, especially the last second landing. But nothing can be worse than that awful light beam across the ice followed by surfer dude Bond. The car is ridiculous too.
Locations
QOS suffers from too many locations in my opinion. I like to sit back and enjoy the scenery. I do however enjoy the Palio scenes in Siena and the novelty of a floating opera in Austria. As for DAD, having just returned from Havana, Cadiz did a good job. The ice palace is actually spectacular in itself but sadly its remembered for the shoddy scenes which are associated with this part ofthe movie.
Soundtrack
I would rate QOS a fair few notches above DAD. John Barry would still laugh at both i'm sure.
Theme-song
The two worst in the series by a long way.
Editing styles
Hmmm, well I dislike the slow/fast paced editing of the ice chase sequence in DAD but I also detest the Bourne-like-blink-and-you-will-miss-it style in QOS. The over all visual cinemaography of QOS is very good. I just would have liked to have enjoyed the Italian lake coastline and quarry scenes in the PTS more though.

I'm sure errors made in these two films will bring out the best in Skyfall.

And its Quantum of Solace, 002. Your title and posts here miss out the u! ;)

BAIN123

Getafix said:

002 said:
Qantum of Solace is terrible and has nothing whatsoever to do with the iconic character of James Bond.

The main plot was the worst of any Bond movie. Instead of saving the world, Bond is saving the people of a 3rd world country a few pennies on their water bill. Instead of fighting for the good of the free world, Bond is on a heartless revenge killing spree, and the free world is portrayed as almost universally corrupt. But the worst offense is the contrived "explosive hotel" in the middle of nowhere, in the desert. I'll bet they get a lot of tourism there! At least its made of some kind of material that burns without a single trace of smoke... -groan-!

Craig is terrible as bond, he has no charisma whatsoever. He broods for the entire film, never smiling, never delivering that cheeky charm that Bond should (he got a few good lines in Casino). The main Bond girl is a bundle of laughs... no wait, strike that, she's a depressing lump. The CIA girl is actually OK but only sticks around for about 2 minutes before being killed. Felix, instead of being a smart, useful, and funny friend, is a waste of screen time and contributes nothing at all to the story. The villain does not even seem evil, just like a corrupt businessman (FAR from the world-domination-seeking villains of past). The deposed dictator is unbelievable and the implied rape scene at the end should NOT be in a bond film. .

The action scenes have such short cuts that you can't focus on any of them. The result is utter confusion about who is punching whom. There are obvious and avoidable errors such as cutting between two scenes and the actors have changed positions.

Franchise Loyalty: Rename the main character and you would never be able to guess that this is a Bond film. You would probably guess it's a Bourne film. I don't demand the clichés such as "Bond, James Bond" (though you certainly won't find that here). But I do demand that the main character be a likable British guy showing off cool spy gadgets and attacking problems with intelligence rather than always brute force. There were no gadgets-not a single one!-and Bond was a cold-blooded murderer.

This movie would be a below-average effort for a generic action flick. But putting the name "Bond" on it debases and defiles the Bond franchise. Those responsible for this atrocity such as Babs and Marc should be hunted down and killed for sport for what they've done...

id take Die Another Day anytime

It's funny. I agree with quite a lot of what you say, but I still see QoS as infinitely better than the Brozza films. Generally though, I concur with your thesis that the recent outings have lost any clear sense of 'who' or 'what' Bond is. The complex moral themes that have crept in don't belong in a Bond movie, as once you start exploring this faux-reality stuff you undermine the entire fantasy world in which our hero exists.

Btw, I don't believe there is a 'CIA girl' in QoS. I believe the female you are referring to is an MI6 field agent...

There certainly was a "field agent" in QoS. ;)

PrinceKamalKhan

I pick DAD because the first half to two-thirds at least "feels" somewhat like a Bond film.

Mods, could we get a poll added to this one also, please?

Thanks,

PKK

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