1980's - The Forgotten Decade

124

Comments

  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    HASEROT wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, and The World is not Enough are just about as classic as you can get! I certainly applause the 1990's for bringing these three legends to the Bond series, and largely due in part to the man himself, Pierce Brosnan. I'd say that 3 dimensional characters in the '90s were Alec Trevelyan, General Ourumov, Xenia Onatopp, Elektra King, Renard, Sir Robert King, and Natalya Simonova. Only the characters in TND were less dimensional, but I still think they're iconic legends, except for Paris Carver, who I can't stand no matter what!

    While Brosnan's time was fun - his tenure was anything but classic.... GE is about the only film I would put under the 'classic' category... TND and TWINE weren't that special... in terms of 3 dimensional characters - just because a character has a backstory, doesn't make them 3 dimensional.... when i think of 3 dimensional - they go through a range of emotional growth throughout the film..... Natalya and Elektra are about the only 3 dimensional characters in your list... the one I think I laughed at the most, was Sir Robert King... lol really?.. he has a total of about 40 seconds of screen time and was a sacrificial lamb - and somehow he was a 3 dimensional character??

    Natalaya and possibly Electra are the closest we had to 3D characters in Brosnan's era. Natalya especially was someone who had an ordinary job and had to rely on her own determination to survive when her life was threatened. She showed she had a personality, a vulnerable side and a sense of humour. She gave Bond a run for his money and saved his life at the end. She's just...so gorgeous aswell.

    Electra was something out of a Greek tragedy.

    Trevelyan was pretty good too. He had a backstory which, while a bit awkardly written, at least TRIED to examine how his family were betrayed by the British.

    Onatopp wasn't really three-dimensional but Famkie played her very well. She was a fun OTT character.

    There were other characters in Brosnan's run that had potential (Elliot Carver, Paris, Wai Lin and Miranda Frost) but they ended up falling victim to cheesiness.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    NicNac wrote:
    You can squeeze a mention for Sylvester McCoy into a Bond thread like no one else I know Major ;)

    It's what i'm good at. ;)
  • Posts: 2,341
    I really enjoyed the 80's. After the garbage of MR closed out the seventies, we got FYEO a good down to earth and entertaining film. OP stands out as Moore's Best in my opinion. Sure TSWLM is called his best but I have always had a soft spot for OP. AVTAK wasn't as bad and does not deserve the "hate" it gets. It did give us Zorin, great climatic fight on the Golden Gate Bridge.
    Dalton's two films closed out the decade and I have no complaints about them. LTK ranks in my top three.
  • Posts: 4,762
    BAIN123 wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, and The World is not Enough are just about as classic as you can get! I certainly applause the 1990's for bringing these three legends to the Bond series, and largely due in part to the man himself, Pierce Brosnan. I'd say that 3 dimensional characters in the '90s were Alec Trevelyan, General Ourumov, Xenia Onatopp, Elektra King, Renard, Sir Robert King, and Natalya Simonova. Only the characters in TND were less dimensional, but I still think they're iconic legends, except for Paris Carver, who I can't stand no matter what!

    While Brosnan's time was fun - his tenure was anything but classic.... GE is about the only film I would put under the 'classic' category... TND and TWINE weren't that special... in terms of 3 dimensional characters - just because a character has a backstory, doesn't make them 3 dimensional.... when i think of 3 dimensional - they go through a range of emotional growth throughout the film..... Natalya and Elektra are about the only 3 dimensional characters in your list... the one I think I laughed at the most, was Sir Robert King... lol really?.. he has a total of about 40 seconds of screen time and was a sacrificial lamb - and somehow he was a 3 dimensional character??

    Natalaya and possibly Electra are the closest we had to 3D characters in Brosnan's era. Natalya especially was someone who had an ordinary job and had to rely on her own determination to survive when her life was threatened. She showed she had a personality, a vulnerable side and a sense of humour. She gave Bond a run for his money and saved his life at the end. She's just...so gorgeous aswell.

    Electra was something out of a Greek tragedy.

    Trevelyan was pretty good too. He had a backstory which, while a bit awkardly written, at least TRIED to examine how his family were betrayed by the British.

    Onatopp wasn't really three-dimensional but Famkie played her very well. She was a fun OTT character.

    There were other characters in Brosnan's run that had potential (Elliot Carver, Paris, Wai Lin and Miranda Frost) but they ended up falling victim to cheesiness.

    @haserot: Well, I thought that Sir Robert King had a good back-story as a history with M, and I enjoyed the whole scenario about him and M not paying the ransom money, and Sir Robert taking over Elektra's mother's family oil, which lead to his death at the hands of his vengeful daughter. @BAIN123: All right, maybe not Xenia as much as the others, but she's up there, if not topping the list, in the ranks of Bond Bad Girls like Fiona Volpe and Naomi.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,425
    00Beast wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    Yes, the '80s is definitely under-rated, as is the '90s. The time period of 1981 (FYEO) up until 1999 (TWINE) is my idea of the Golden Bond Era, no doubt about it. FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE, TND, and TWINE are all in my top ten if I remember correctly, so that about sums up my thoughts!

    Please do not lump the nineties trash in with the eighties. The eighties were something special. Cubby was still at the helm and we had some good solid stories with the Cold War in the background giving it spice.

    Characterisation came back in the eighties with three dimensional writing for Melina Havelock, Kara Milovy, Franz Sanchez and James Bond. The nineties went back to seventies cartooon characters. With the eighties you had character motivation all the way through, superb stunts that didnt rely on cgi and the rock solid talents of Cubby Broccoli, Richard Maibaum, Peter Lamont and especially John Barry.

    The last gasp of greatness until 2006 came along.

    GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, and The World is not Enough are just about as classic as you can get! I certainly applause the 1990's for bringing these three legends to the Bond series, and largely due in part to the man himself, Pierce Brosnan. I'd say that 3 dimensional characters in the '90s were Alec Trevelyan, General Ourumov, Xenia Onatopp, Elektra King, Renard, Sir Robert King, and Natalya Simonova. Only the characters in TND were less dimensional, but I still think they're iconic legends, except for Paris Carver, who I can't stand no matter what!

    They're
    00Beast wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, and The World is not Enough are just about as classic as you can get! I certainly applause the 1990's for bringing these three legends to the Bond series, and largely due in part to the man himself, Pierce Brosnan. I'd say that 3 dimensional characters in the '90s were Alec Trevelyan, General Ourumov, Xenia Onatopp, Elektra King, Renard, Sir Robert King, and Natalya Simonova. Only the characters in TND were less dimensional, but I still think they're iconic legends, except for Paris Carver, who I can't stand no matter what!

    While Brosnan's time was fun - his tenure was anything but classic.... GE is about the only film I would put under the 'classic' category... TND and TWINE weren't that special... in terms of 3 dimensional characters - just because a character has a backstory, doesn't make them 3 dimensional.... when i think of 3 dimensional - they go through a range of emotional growth throughout the film..... Natalya and Elektra are about the only 3 dimensional characters in your list... the one I think I laughed at the most, was Sir Robert King... lol really?.. he has a total of about 40 seconds of screen time and was a sacrificial lamb - and somehow he was a 3 dimensional character??

    Natalaya and possibly Electra are the closest we had to 3D characters in Brosnan's era. Natalya especially was someone who had an ordinary job and had to rely on her own determination to survive when her life was threatened. She showed she had a personality, a vulnerable side and a sense of humour. She gave Bond a run for his money and saved his life at the end. She's just...so gorgeous aswell.

    Electra was something out of a Greek tragedy.

    Trevelyan was pretty good too. He had a backstory which, while a bit awkardly written, at least TRIED to examine how his family were betrayed by the British.

    Onatopp wasn't really three-dimensional but Famkie played her very well. She was a fun OTT character.

    There were other characters in Brosnan's run that had potential (Elliot Carver, Paris, Wai Lin and Miranda Frost) but they ended up falling victim to cheesiness.

    @haserot: Well, I thought that Sir Robert King had a good back-story as a history with M, and I enjoyed the whole scenario about him and M not paying the ransom money, and Sir Robert taking over Elektra's mother's family oil, which lead to his death at the hands of his vengeful daughter. @BAIN123: All right, maybe not Xenia as much as the others, but she's up there, if not topping the list, in the ranks of Bond Bad Girls like Fiona Volpe and Naomi.

    Who wants M, or for that matter, any of her aquaintances to have 'back stories'?! Get back to basics, for goodness sakes!

    And actually, Xenia was pathetic - a waste of a decent, good looking actress.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Na...Xenia was a fun character. Certainly one of the best in Brosnan's era.

    Watch Haphazard's analysis of her. I'm with him 100%.

    =; =; =;
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 1,492
    HASEROT wrote:

    While Brosnan's time was fun - his tenure was anything but classic.... GE is about the only film I would put under the 'classic' category... TND and TWINE weren't that special... in terms of 3 dimensional characters - just because a character has a backstory, doesn't make them 3 dimensional.... when i think of 3 dimensional - they go through a range of emotional growth throughout the film..... Natalya and Elektra are about the only 3 dimensional characters in your list... the one I think I laughed at the most, was Sir Robert King... lol really?.. he has a total of about 40 seconds of screen time and was a sacrificial lamb - and somehow he was a 3 dimensional character??

    What made me laugh is Xenia Onatopp How does she go on an emotional journey? She's a cartoon character with a schoolboy name with a frankly vulgar way of despatching people. When she was having orgasms killing people I was cringing.

  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Natalaya and possibly Electra are the closest we had to 3D characters in Brosnan's era. Natalya especially was someone who had an ordinary job and had to rely on her own determination to survive when her life was threatened. She showed she had a personality, a vulnerable side and a sense of humour. She gave Bond a run for his money and saved his life at the end. She's just...so gorgeous aswell.

    but her characterisation stops when we get to Cuba. She becomes extraneous. In fact, why did she follow him to Cuba her story is finished? Apart from Pierces' body...

  • Posts: 11,189
    She still maintains her ballsy personality though that she displayed earlier in the film and which got her through tough situations ("go ahead...shoot him, he means nothing to me" - echoing what Bond had said to Alec earlier).

    She was also needed because of her satallite and computer expertise so there was a reason for her to go with him.

    What's wrong with wanting to go because of Pierce's body ;) I'm a hetrosexual but even I'd follow him to Cuba :p

    (For the record Isabella is a better actress than Carole Boquet too)
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited April 2012 Posts: 4,399
    00Beast wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, and The World is not Enough are just about as classic as you can get! I certainly applause the 1990's for bringing these three legends to the Bond series, and largely due in part to the man himself, Pierce Brosnan. I'd say that 3 dimensional characters in the '90s were Alec Trevelyan, General Ourumov, Xenia Onatopp, Elektra King, Renard, Sir Robert King, and Natalya Simonova. Only the characters in TND were less dimensional, but I still think they're iconic legends, except for Paris Carver, who I can't stand no matter what!

    While Brosnan's time was fun - his tenure was anything but classic.... GE is about the only film I would put under the 'classic' category... TND and TWINE weren't that special... in terms of 3 dimensional characters - just because a character has a backstory, doesn't make them 3 dimensional.... when i think of 3 dimensional - they go through a range of emotional growth throughout the film..... Natalya and Elektra are about the only 3 dimensional characters in your list... the one I think I laughed at the most, was Sir Robert King... lol really?.. he has a total of about 40 seconds of screen time and was a sacrificial lamb - and somehow he was a 3 dimensional character??

    Natalaya and possibly Electra are the closest we had to 3D characters in Brosnan's era. Natalya especially was someone who had an ordinary job and had to rely on her own determination to survive when her life was threatened. She showed she had a personality, a vulnerable side and a sense of humour. She gave Bond a run for his money and saved his life at the end. She's just...so gorgeous aswell.

    Electra was something out of a Greek tragedy.

    Trevelyan was pretty good too. He had a backstory which, while a bit awkardly written, at least TRIED to examine how his family were betrayed by the British.

    Onatopp wasn't really three-dimensional but Famkie played her very well. She was a fun OTT character.

    There were other characters in Brosnan's run that had potential (Elliot Carver, Paris, Wai Lin and Miranda Frost) but they ended up falling victim to cheesiness.

    @haserot: Well, I thought that Sir Robert King had a good back-story as a history with M, and I enjoyed the whole scenario about him and M not paying the ransom money, and Sir Robert taking over Elektra's mother's family oil, which lead to his death at the hands of his vengeful daughter. @BAIN123: All right, maybe not Xenia as much as the others, but she's up there, if not topping the list, in the ranks of Bond Bad Girls like Fiona Volpe and Naomi.

    again - i stress, backstory does not make a character during his time onscreen 3 dimensional... almost every major character on screen has a backstory to them - that's just basic info, that often times has little to do with what is going on with the character at that moment... it's how said character progresses emotionally during the story that adds dimensions to them - not whether or not their backstory is interesting...

    Sir Robert King's backstory is robust, and interwoven with the plot, because it has to be - he's on and off the screen faster than a television commercial.... just because his backstory is part of plot, doesn't mean he's a 3 dimensional character in the film...... his main purpose was to be the sacrificial lamb, and to be the initial reason 007 goes on his mission... thats essentially it......... 3 dimensional, and 'interesting' characters are not the same.... Elektra was the real 3 dimensional character of that film, no one else...
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    S

    (For the record Isabella is a better actress than Carole Boquet too)

    Oooh dear. Touch a nerve did I?

    Carole Bouquet had a thirty year career in French films. Whats Isabella doing lateley?

    Bain goes scampering off like a little pixie to IMBH with his cut and paste.

  • Posts: 1,492
    HASEROT wrote:
    again - i stress, backstory does not make a character during his time onscreen 3 dimensional... almost every major character on screen has a backstory to them - that's just basic info, that often times has little to do with what is going on with the character at that moment... it's how said character progresses emotionally during the story that adds dimensions to them - not whether or not their backstory is interesting...

    .

    Alec Treveleyan had a backstory while Franz Sanchez had a character journey (a fall brought on by paranoia)

    Theres a difference.

  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    actonsteve wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    S

    (For the record Isabella is a better actress than Carole Boquet too)

    Oooh dear. Touch a nerve did I?

    Carole Bouquet had a thirty year career in French films. Whats Isabella doing lateley?

    Bain goes scampering off like a little pixie to IMBH with his cut and paste.



    Carole obviously got better (and I've seen her in a couple of clips in French films - in one of which she was topless) but in FYEO she was a bit stiff at times (to me anyway).
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    actonsteve wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    again - i stress, backstory does not make a character during his time onscreen 3 dimensional... almost every major character on screen has a backstory to them - that's just basic info, that often times has little to do with what is going on with the character at that moment... it's how said character progresses emotionally during the story that adds dimensions to them - not whether or not their backstory is interesting...

    .

    Alec Treveleyan had a backstory while Franz Sanchez had a character journey (a fall brought on by paranoia)

    Theres a difference.

    exactly my point.... and brilliant example btw
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    FYEO is really one of my favorite Bond movies. I like CB in the role.
  • Posts: 1,052
    I think the 80's represent the last of the old school Bond films, I think after GE all the films had a different feel to them, lacking a bit of the old sparkle but that's not to say they aren't some decent films from the 90's onwards.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2012 Posts: 15,690
    actonsteve wrote:
    Just because you dont like him it doesn mean everyone does.

    Same thing can be applied to you and Brosnan..... just because you don't like Pierce doesn't mean everyone does.... if we look at the general public, the Brosnan haters and the Craig haters are in the minority.... no matter how much you say that Craig is the better Bond or the better actor than Brosnan, you simply cannot deny that both of them are hugely popular in the general audience. I'd say that if you did a world-wide survey on whether the general audience prefers Brosnan or Craig, the results would be huge for both, but also no clear winner. I'd say that Brosnan and Craig have more-or-less the same amount of love and popularity in the minds of the general audience.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 306

    Same thing can be applied to you and Brosnan..... just because you don't like Pierce doesn't mean everyone does.... .

    Exactly. The hypocrisy for some people around here is stunning.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I've seen her in a couple of clips in French films - in one of which she was topless) ..... was a bit stiff at times

    Well quite. (Cue Roger-esque eyebrow raise).

  • Posts: 12,837
    actonsteve wrote:
    Just because you dont like him it doesn mean everyone does.

    Same thing can be applied to you and Brosnan..... just because you don't like Pierce doesn't mean everyone does.... if we look at the general public, the Brosnan haters and the Craig haters are in the minority.... no matter how much you say that Craig is the better Bond or the better actor than Brosnan, you simply cannot deny that both of them are hugely popular in the general audience. I'd say that if you did a world-wide survey on whether the general audience prefers Brosnan or Craig, the results would be huge for both, but also no clear winner. I'd say that Brosnan and Craig have more-or-less the same amount of love and popularity in the minds of the general audience.

    This.
    Same thing can be applied to you and Brosnan..... just because you don't like Pierce doesn't mean everyone does.... .

    Exactly. The hypocrisy for some people around here is stunning.

    It really is. Like afew weeks ago on the Dalton vs Craig thread, somebody accused me of throwing him Dalton peoples faces. But on other threads, you say something like Brosnan is better than Craig and you instantly get people telling you about how great Craig is and how crap Brosnan is. I like Craig but it's irritating how you can't say a bad word about him sometimes.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2012 Posts: 15,690
    IMO the Brosnan bashers here think they are strong because they are in the majority on this website, while in fact they are a very, very small minority. These Brosnan detractors are a very vocal minority on Bond websites.... in the general audience though, Brosnan is still very popular, as popular as Daniel Craig. It's impossible to say who of Craig or Brosnan is the most popular in the general audience, as they both have equal popularity.
  • Posts: 12,837
    IMO the Brosnan bashers here think they are strong because they are in the majority on this website, while in fact they are a very, very small minority.

    Exactly. They like to think that Craig is much more popular when really Brosnan is probably just as liked as Craig is.
  • Posts: 469
    Bring back the 80's !
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2012 Posts: 15,690
    IMO the Brosnan bashers here think they are strong because they are in the majority on this website, while in fact they are a very, very small minority.

    Exactly. They like to think that Craig is much more popular when really Brosnan is probably just as liked as Craig is.

    Yep. Maybe Craig is the better actor, but both have the same immense popularity. A world-wide survey of the 'Brosnan or Craig' thread would give a tie. This website is certainly not a representation of reality. The general population loves Brosnan and Craig equally.
  • Posts: 12,837
    IMO the Brosnan bashers here think they are strong because they are in the majority on this website, while in fact they are a very, very small minority.

    Exactly. They like to think that Craig is much more popular when really Brosnan is probably just as liked as Craig is.

    Yep. Maybe Craig is the better actor, but both have the same immense popularity. A world-wide survey of the 'Brosnan or Craig' thread would give a tie. This website is certainly not a representation of reality. The general population loves Brosnan and Craig equally.

    =D>
  • Posts: 3,333
    I'm not sure whether you can call the 80's the forgotten decade. The movies have just been chronologically pushed back by the Brosnan and Craig years, nothing more.

    Personally, I only really liked TLD out of the 80's. FYEO has some how been elevated to the "classic Moore" Bond when there was so much I recall cringing through when I first saw it, mostly due to Bibi, Thatcher's parrot and the silly PTS with the bald guy in the wheelchair. Bond shouldn't make me cringe, which is the reason why I don't much care for the Moore years. That said, I actually think Octopussy is the best Moore Bond of the 80's.

    For the record, the same applies to Brosnan, who I always saw as a lightweight RM without the comic timing. But if I were to be nostalgic for the sake of it I would take Moore over Brosnan any day. At least his Bond was fun without feeling forced.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    bondsum wrote:
    I'm not sure whether you can call the 80's the forgotten decade. The movies have just been chronologically pushed back by the Brosnan and Craig years, nothing more.

    Personally, I only really liked TLD out of the 80's. FYEO has some how been elevated to the "classic Moore" Bond when there was so much I recall cringing through when I first saw it, mostly due to Bibi, Thatcher's parrot and the silly PTS with the bald guy in the wheelchair. Bond shouldn't make me cringe, which is the reason why I don't much care for the Moore years. That said, I actually think Octopussy is the best Moore Bond of the 80's.

    For the record, the same applies to Brosnan, who I always saw as a lightweight RM without the comic timing. But if I were to be nostalgic for the sake of it I would take Moore over Brosnan any day. At least his Bond was fun without feeling forced.

    Yeah...and the Margret Thatcher stuff wasn't forced or unnatural at all ;)

    I had a lot of fun watching Brosnan when I was younger. In fact just the other day I saw TND. Despite its flaws I still quite enjoyed it (and Brosnan in it). It also suddenly occured to me the other day as I was watching a bit of MR that, as much as I love Rog, I thought of him as Roger Moore first and James Bond second. Maybe its just the way Brosnan looks and moves on camera or maybe its because I grew up with Pierce but sometimes I just think "he's James Bond". With Rog its like "there's the awesome Roger Moore as James Bond".

    For example, the best scene of TND.



    I love the expressions Brosnan gives in this scene (like the little smiles and the calm but concerned stares) - esp when he kills Kaulfman at the end. How can you NOT say he's Bond.

    Was watching FYEO this morning too. Its good, Moore's on good form but it feels a bit...bland... at times. While it does have some classy scenes there's a bit of a meat/potatoes style to it. I prefer OP. AT least it has a bit more of an exotic manner to it.
  • Posts: 1,092
    Love the 80's Bonds. Love the consistancy in the films. Same director all the way through the decade. We will NEVER get that again, good or bad, ever in our lives. Never said never, right? Heh. But it's true. I like that. I like that Rog was still hanging in there and FYEO is my 4th favorite. It's a great film from top to b ottom. And TLD is #6 right now. Solid stuff.

    OP is the first Bond film I ever saw, I grew up in this decade... yeah, lots of good stuff here!
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    Another issue with the films of the 80's onwards. They have no 'classic' characters that the public can remember.
  • IMO the Brosnan bashers here think they are strong because they are in the majority on this website, while in fact they are a very, very small minority.

    Exactly. They like to think that Craig is much more popular when really Brosnan is probably just as liked as Craig is.

    Yep. Maybe Craig is the better actor, but both have the same immense popularity. A world-wide survey of the 'Brosnan or Craig' thread would give a tie. This website is certainly not a representation of reality. The general population loves Brosnan and Craig equally.

    =D>

    Well said sirs!
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