1980's - The Forgotten Decade

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  • Posts: 11,189
    Yeah Stacey Sutton...played by Tania ("JAAAMES") Roberts :))

    I will say CB was better than TR though.

    Btw: Bond forgets his own advice about revenge 8 years later.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    I agree with you NN. As much as I enjoy the 80s there's something a little tired about them.
    Some people see the films as tired and I see where they are coming from but I just can't agree. They may seem tired coming after the huge humor and big scale sets of the 70's, but that is exactly why I like them. The 80's films are more down to earth and story driven. Plus, every film except LTK has a Cold War twist to it and I love those themes.
  • Posts: 11,189
    It might just have something to do with the look and feel of the films rather than the stories themselves to be fair RT
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 306
    Ok, I could see that. It comes down to whether or not you like John Glen's style, and I love it.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Ok, I could see that. It comes down to whether or not you like John Glen's style, and I love it.

    I don't hate JG like some do here (OP is one of my favourites) but he just doesn't have the punch of Young, Hunt or Campbell.
  • Posts: 1,492
    Ok, I could see that. It comes down to whether or not you like John Glen's style, and I love it.

    yeah, same here. I like the intimacy of the characters combined with slam bang stunts.

  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    edited April 2012 Posts: 987
    Although arguably the 80's produced only two classic Bonds (FYEO and TLD), I still find myself re watching the films of this decade more than any other. Yes, Moore and the regular cast were getting well past their prime (the Ascot scene in AVTAK feels more like a pensioners day trip than a 007 mission), but the underrated John Glen manages to fill each scene with background interest that rewards the repeating viewer. I don't think John Glen is the greatest Bond director by a long chalk (OP, AVTAK and LTK are way down on my list), and his silly over reliance on juvenile humour is a constant problem, but even in his poorer efforts enough of his obvious talent is highly visible on screen with his attention to detail, competent handling of action scenes and an eye for framing beautiful background scenery and creating a sense of place, and I can clearly see why he was asked to return to the directors chair so many times.
    If I could only keep one decade of Bond films, despite their flaws, it would have to be the 80's.
  • Posts: 12,837
    The 80s is a golden age for Bond films (actually, all films). Moore kicked things of with FYEO, his most serious and darkest film, then we had the fun OP and the ok but not great AVTAK.

    Then we get Dalton, the best Bond ever, giving us the best two films in the entire series, TLD and LTK. Meanwhile outside Bond, we have films like Die Hard, Scarface and Terminator. The 80s was a great decade for films.

    The 90s were ok too. GE was great, TND was a fun film but got let down by a crap villian, and TWINE was good.
  • Posts: 2,189
    The 80s is a golden age for Bond films (actually, all films). Moore kicked things of with FYEO, his most serious and darkest film, then we had the fun OP and the ok but not great AVTAK.

    Then we get Dalton, the best Bond ever, giving us the best two films in the entire series, TLD and LTK. Meanwhile outside Bond, we have films like Die Hard, Scarface and Terminator. The 80s was a great decade for films.

    The 90s were ok too. GE was great, TND was a fun film but got let down by a crap villian, and TWINE was good.

    I'm sorry but the 60's were quite obviously the golden age of Bond, Dalton was one of the worst Bonds of them all, and yes, the 80's were a great decade for films in general, but not for Bond films. They all got overshadowed by the other action movies of the day because by comparison the Bond movies were dull and lacking the essential Bond sparkle you find in the 60’s, 70’s, and the 90’s.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    The 80s is a golden age for Bond films (actually, all films). Moore kicked things of with FYEO, his most serious and darkest film, then we had the fun OP and the ok but not great AVTAK.

    Then we get Dalton, the best Bond ever, giving us the best two films in the entire series, TLD and LTK. Meanwhile outside Bond, we have films like Die Hard, Scarface and Terminator. The 80s was a great decade for films.

    The 90s were ok too. GE was great, TND was a fun film but got let down by a crap villian, and TWINE was good.

    I'm sorry but the 60's were quite obviously the golden age of Bond, Dalton was one of the worst Bonds of them all

    Dangerous words round here mate ;) Better buy an unbrella to protect yourself from the eggs people are going to throw at you.
  • Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The 80s is a golden age for Bond films (actually, all films). Moore kicked things of with FYEO, his most serious and darkest film, then we had the fun OP and the ok but not great AVTAK.

    Then we get Dalton, the best Bond ever, giving us the best two films in the entire series, TLD and LTK. Meanwhile outside Bond, we have films like Die Hard, Scarface and Terminator. The 80s was a great decade for films.

    The 90s were ok too. GE was great, TND was a fun film but got let down by a crap villian, and TWINE was good.

    I'm sorry but the 60's were quite obviously the golden age of Bond, Dalton was one of the worst Bonds of them all

    Dangerous words round here mate ;) Better buy an unbrella to protect yourself from the eggs people are going to throw at you.

    @BAIN123 Damn right. @sirseanisbond how exactly is Dalton one of the worst??? He was dark, gritty, deadly and serious but still managed to crack one liners and use humour. He was the most badass out of all the Bonds, the only one to go rogue. He had this coolness with him that I don't feel with any of the others (as good as they are). When you watch Dalton, you really feel like he's this dangerous spy who could kill you in a second, capable of anything. To me, Dalton IS Bond. Nobody can top him, not even Brosnan or Connery.

    Rant over.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    When you watch Dalton, you really feel like he's this dangerous spy who could kill you in a second, capable of anything.

    I don't. I just think "oooh look there's Timothy Dalton". ;)

    Dalton didn't even kill all that many people as Bond :p
  • Posts: 2,189
    @thelivingroyale, I respect your opinion and admit that I may have overstated myself. Dalton was not a bad Bond, and I do rather like his films. However, I personally never felt that he ‘IS Bond’ as you say because I feel that that title belongs to Sean. He began the role and he defines the standard from which all proceeding Bond actors would be judged, and I just never saw Timmy matching up. Sean was dangerous and cool and Craig is just flat-out dangerous, but Tim felt like he was putting the danger on like Pierce and Roger did. I still feel that Sean and George and Pierce and Craig are better Bonds than Tim. I do think that he is a better Bond than Roger was, although Rogers 7 movies hold a greater prestige than Daltons 2.
  • Posts: 11,425
    actonsteve wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    Yes, the '80s is definitely under-rated, as is the '90s. The time period of 1981 (FYEO) up until 1999 (TWINE) is my idea of the Golden Bond Era, no doubt about it. FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE, TND, and TWINE are all in my top ten if I remember correctly, so that about sums up my thoughts!

    Please do not lump the nineties trash in with the eighties. The eighties were something special. Cubby was still at the helm and we had some good solid stories with the Cold War in the background giving it spice.

    Characterisation came back in the eighties with three dimensional writing for Melina Havelock, Kara Milovy, Franz Sanchez and James Bond. The nineties went back to seventies cartooon characters. With the eighties you had character motivation all the way through, superb stunts that didnt rely on cgi and the rock solid talents of Cubby Broccoli, Richard Maibaum, Peter Lamont and especially John Barry.

    The last gasp of greatness until 2006 came along.

    Exactamondo. The 90s utterly, epicly sucked. It should have been a vintage decade for Bond with everything that was happening in design, music etc, but they totally missed the opportunities. The Brozza films are the dullest and most poorly scripted of the entire series.
  • Posts: 11,189
    "Tim felt like he was putting the danger on"

    You know what @Sirsean? That's something that's bothered me too in the past. Don't get me wrong Dalton is a good actor but I can kind of understand why some people say he's "too theatrical".
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    When you watch Dalton, you really feel like he's this dangerous spy who could kill you in a second, capable of anything.

    I don't. I just think "oooh look there's Timothy Dalton". ;)

    Dalton didn't even kill all that many people as Bond :p

    So Bond needs massive body count to impress you? Think you're watching the wrong series of movies...
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    When you watch Dalton, you really feel like he's this dangerous spy who could kill you in a second, capable of anything.

    I don't. I just think "oooh look there's Timothy Dalton". ;)

    Dalton didn't even kill all that many people as Bond :p

    So Bond needs massive body count to impress you? Think you're watching the wrong series of movies...

    No but for someone who is considered "so dark and deadly" he doesn't really kill that many people. I think Connery and Moore were just as capable at showing Bond's "darker" side when they wanted to.

    Here's a thesis. Moore's car kick in FYEO was just as effective at showing Bond's dangerous streak as anything Dalton ever did.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    When you watch Dalton, you really feel like he's this dangerous spy who could kill you in a second, capable of anything.

    I don't. I just think "oooh look there's Timothy Dalton". ;)

    Dalton didn't even kill all that many people as Bond :p

    So, you watch him impale a guy with a spear gun, or or stare coldly as a guys head explodes, or kill Sanchez with a lighter, you don't feel that he's dangerous???

    And none of the actors have killed that many people as Bond. Brosnan has probably killed the most though because his films had more cool machine gun battles than any of the others.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    So, you watch him impale a guy with a spear gun, or stare coldly as a guys head explodes, or kill Sanchez with a lighter, you don't feel that he's dangerous???

    Well not as dangerous as he's being made out to be. In fact even Laz had more of a genuinely nasty side to him - choking a guard to keep him quiet.

    Damn, I'm bashing Dalton. I don't mean to. I just don't think he's as awesome as some people say he is. He's good but quite "actor-ly". Craig IMO has demonstrated a much more "primal" and dare I say it...scarier...ruthlessness about him. When he strangles De Bankole in the stairwell (the first time in a LONG time we have seen Bond kill anyone that way) I think "damn this bloke is hard". It actually feels much more brutal than anything Dalton did (to me anyway).

    I think even Brosnan (at times) could show a "nastier" side. I love the scene between him and Dr Kaulfman in TND.
  • Posts: 2,189
    I agree @BAIN123, Dalton’s thesp shows too much in the movies. He’s a great stage actor, and I can see him more realistically in a Shakespearian play than in a Bond movie.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I agree @BAIN123, Dalton’s thesp shows too much in the movies. He’s a great stage actor, and I can see him more realistically in a Shakespearian play than in a Bond movie.

    Dalton's probably more comfortable either on stage or in a highbrow TV drama. That's why he's never had the film career some say he should have. He's not a film star. Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig are. The audience finds them more engaging.

    In fact that's why I LOVE Dalton in Hot Fuzz. He can play up his theatricality.
  • Posts: 1,310
    Perhaps the reason why the 1980s is being "forgotten" is because the decade didn't have a Goldfinger or Spy Who Loved Me (or a GoldenEye for that matter). There really was no 'resurgence' of Bond seen in 60s, 70s, mid 90s and even 2006.

    The Living Daylights is one of my favorite Bond films, and easily the best of the decade. FYEO, OP and LTK are all solid films also (the less said about AVTAK the better). It's not necessarily fair that the 80s decade is so forgotten, but competition from newer, fresher (and in some cases better) franchises really pushed Bond aside. Sure, FYEO was a good film, but compared to Raiders of the Lost Ark (both released in '81) its child's play.

    And as the Dalton vs. Brosnan debate continues, I'll throw my two cents in and say that I prefer Dalton. Brosnan never had anything very unique about him. He got the look down, but as far as 'making the character his own', he failed. That's perhaps why I like Craig so much; Craig doesn't try to be Sean Connery or whoever. (Brosnan constantly seemed like he was trying to emanate Moore's one liners and Connery's macho-ness...but he came across second rate for both.) But let's give Brosnan some credit - as his films went on, his performances generally got better (TWINE outstanding). The only problem was that as his performances got better, his films got worse.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,901
    The forgotten decade, seeing as there's a thread about it, it can't be that forgotten. :D And I rather like the 1980's.

    - Dalton as Bond.
    - Sylvester McCoy as The 7th Doctor
    - The Friday The 13th films
    - 8 of my favourite actresses were born in the 1980's
    - Alfa Romeo unveiled the 33, the 75, the 164 and the SZ
    - And I was born in the 1980's


    Frankly, I don't know why Dalton not being a film star should make any difference. So the public didn't take to him as much as the other Bonds, what do they know? They lap up so much of the junk on tv, if they don't take to something en masse, that could only be a sign of quality. Brosnan may have brought the money, but he failed to get a proper grasp on Bond and take the films in a new direction.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    "Frankly, I don't know why Dalton not being a film star should make any difference. So the public didn't take to him as much as the other Bonds, what do they know?"

    Well they do ultimately keep the series going. Yes they can be fickle as hell but without them there would be no Bond. Bond was/is and always has been made for the public - not us fans.
  • Posts: 176
    The forgotten decade, seeing as there's a thread about it, it can't be that forgotten. :D And I rather like the 1980's.

    - Dalton as Bond.
    - Sylvester McCoy as The 7th Doctor
    - The Friday The 13th films
    - 8 of my favourite actresses were born in the 1980's
    - Alfa Romeo unveiled the 33, the 75, the 164 and the SZ
    - And I was born in the 1980's


    Frankly, I don't know why Dalton not being a film star should make any difference. So the public didn't take to him as much as the other Bonds, what do they know? They lap up so much of the junk on tv, if they don't take to something en masse, that could only be a sign of quality. Brosnan may have brought the money, but he failed to get a proper grasp on Bond and take the films in a new direction.

    But isn't this what matters? I'm not sayng quality isn't important--obviously, it is but if people aren't going to the theatre (and apparently, the box office was lower on TD's second film than his first), then what good is it? The only way EON can contiue doing Bond films is if they bring in the money.

  • edited April 2012 Posts: 12,837
    marymoss wrote:
    The forgotten decade, seeing as there's a thread about it, it can't be that forgotten. :D And I rather like the 1980's.

    - Dalton as Bond.
    - Sylvester McCoy as The 7th Doctor
    - The Friday The 13th films
    - 8 of my favourite actresses were born in the 1980's
    - Alfa Romeo unveiled the 33, the 75, the 164 and the SZ
    - And I was born in the 1980's


    Frankly, I don't know why Dalton not being a film star should make any difference. So the public didn't take to him as much as the other Bonds, what do they know? They lap up so much of the junk on tv, if they don't take to something en masse, that could only be a sign of quality. Brosnan may have brought the money, but he failed to get a proper grasp on Bond and take the films in a new direction.

    But isn't this what matters? I'm not sayng quality isn't important--obviously, it is but if people aren't going to the theatre (and apparently, the box office was lower on TD's second film than his first), then what good is it? The only way EON can contiue doing Bond films is if they bring in the money.

    Dalton could've bought in the money for GE I think. Bond had been away for a while, so people would be excited about a new one, just like what's happening with SF. The box office was lower for LTK because it was released in the same year as films like Batman and Indiana Jones, and had terrible advertising. TLD outgrossed AVTAK and I think OP.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    The thing is Marymoss the intake for LTK wasn't just lower - it was MUCH lower. I think it's actually the least financially successful film of the series.

    The big difference the series is continuing this 'darker' direction with SF when they didn't really with GE was because of one thing - money. Both Craig's films have taken a lot of cash at the box office. People liked Craig in a way that Dalton could only have dreamed of.

    The marketing excuse is an old one. Yes the film was marketed badly and yes a lot of films were out that year but surely the fact it was a Bond should have been enough to sell it.

    Look at TSWLM - a film that came out the same year as Star Wars and did extremely well.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,901
    BAIN123 wrote:
    "Frankly, I don't know why Dalton not being a film star should make any difference. So the public didn't take to him as much as the other Bonds, what do they know?"

    Well they do ultimately keep the series going. Yes they're fickle as hell but without them there would be no Bond.

    I've often wished that the series had ended in 1989, preserving Bond as he was.

    marymoss wrote:
    The forgotten decade, seeing as there's a thread about it, it can't be that forgotten. :D And I rather like the 1980's.

    - Dalton as Bond.
    - Sylvester McCoy as The 7th Doctor
    - The Friday The 13th films
    - 8 of my favourite actresses were born in the 1980's
    - Alfa Romeo unveiled the 33, the 75, the 164 and the SZ
    - And I was born in the 1980's


    Frankly, I don't know why Dalton not being a film star should make any difference. So the public didn't take to him as much as the other Bonds, what do they know? They lap up so much of the junk on tv, if they don't take to something en masse, that could only be a sign of quality. Brosnan may have brought the money, but he failed to get a proper grasp on Bond and take the films in a new direction.

    But isn't this what matters? I'm not sayng quality isn't important--obviously, it is but if people aren't going to the theatre (and apparently, the box office was lower on TD's second film than his first), then what good is it? The only way EON can contiue doing Bond films is if they bring in the money.

    I agree the money is important. But I would put the content of the films above the cash. I think after Dalton, EON were too affraid to take the series fowards.

    I'm possibly in the minority, but i'd rather a Bond with lower BO takings thar delivers a new style, rather than a Bond with greater BO takings but is nothing more than a greatest hits.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    T
    The big difference the series is continuing this 'darker' direction with SF when they didn't really with GE was because of one thing - money. Both Craig's films have taken a lot of cash at the box office. People liked Craig in a way that Dalton could only have dreamed of.

    And he has got the critical and fan reaction that Brosnan could ever dream of.

  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Maybe but then again I BECAME a fan thanks to a "greatest hits" film in 1995.

    @actonsteve. Yes. He did. I never said Brosnan was a better actor than Craig.
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