Happy Saint George's Day !! (23rd April)

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  • Posts: 12,280
    Belated Happy St George's day everybody!!!
  • Posts: 233
    I think patriotism can be a powerful force for good, especially in instilling an idea of collective responsibility, and I find a lot to be proud of myself in Britain's culture and history (although I don't think it makes me "superior" to anyone else). The problem is that many of those who profess to be the most patriotic don't really give a damn about the institutions and ideas that actually give us something to be proud of (i.e. the NHS, the arts, our heritage of political liberalism and social tolerance).

    I don't have a problem with people celebrating St George's Day, but to me it represents patriotism at its most useless and performative - a day to say "isn't it great being English" while doing absolutely nothing for the betterment of the society you're supposed to love so much. In fact, many so-called patriots seem to actively despise a large proportion of their fellow countrymen, as evidenced by a lot of the replies in this thread.

    More than anything, I've come to dread St George's Day for the faux-outrage culture war it generates every year, just like Easter Eggs and Christmas. People aren't happy celebrating quietly, they have to launch into some Partridge-esque tirade about the PC lefties who have apparently banned being English. It's so boring.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,475
    patb wrote: »
    Patriotism/nationalism I am afraid I tend to rank with religion in that it has little basis on fact or rationality. For the vast majority of us, our nationality has nothing to do with us. It's a roll of the dice, pure chance. Just because my parents were in GB when I was born means that I become a massive fan of GB? If my dad had been offered a job on Amsterdam or Paris, then I wave the Dutch or French flag? Makes no sense at all.

    Nationalism and patriotism provide rich pickings for politicians to exploit and (like religion) create synthetic divides within humanity which should not be there.

    I've always sort of felt a little of this. People cling to their roots from other countries because their great great granddad came from there, no matter how obscure, and national pride can seem a little bit 'meh' at times. After all, boundaries are man made and completely invisible. Why should we have to produce a passport to cross an invisible line?

    But, when you are born and bred in a country and support that country's football team or take a certain pride in that country's monarchy, well in the end you back your own horse. And with national pride rife in Scotland and Wales (and rightly so) we English do try and bang our own drum on occasions. When the government will allow us to that is.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Snake on a plane of being
    Posts: 42,437
    Well, I am sure glad I am not Swedish.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Nigel Powers: There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, ........ and the Dutch.
  • Posts: 15,747
    Well, I am sure glad I am not Swedish.

    Haha!
  • Posts: 2,483
    Even Jeremy Corbyn wants to make St George's Day a National Holiday, you absolute cretins.
    Then by all means vote for him Sir.

    Not a fan of Corbyn for myriad reasons, but the idea that celebrating St George's Day is frowned upon as "racist" is fantasist, straw man nonsense of the highest order. And if you're trying to dismiss accusations of racism, I don't think it's a good look to go around quoting a white supremacist and architect of apartheid rule.

    It is impossible to "fantasize" or parody the Left on matters of race. They view white people, tout court, as racists, all the while hating white people with every fiber of their being.
  • Posts: 2,483
    patb wrote: »
    Patriotism/nationalism I am afraid I tend to rank with religion in that it has little basis on fact or rationality. For the vast majority of us, our nationality has nothing to do with us. It's a roll of the dice, pure chance. Just because my parents were in GB when I was born means that I become a massive fan of GB? If my dad had been offered a job on Amsterdam or Paris, then I wave the Dutch or French flag? Makes no sense at all.

    Nationalism and patriotism provide rich pickings for politicians to exploit and (like religion) create synthetic divides within humanity which should not be there.

    It is entirely rational to support people and institutions that are closest to us. Hence, we support our compatriots over those of other countries. Human beings are inherently "groupish." This is how groups have successfully competed against other groups and survived to the present day. And the desire to survive is quite rational.

    As to "creating divides," well, it's the multiculturalists who are to blame for this. They have interjected incompatible peoples into polities and then done everything they can to discourage assimilation to a common culture.
  • Posts: 2,483
    I think patriotism can be a powerful force for good, especially in instilling an idea of collective responsibility, and I find a lot to be proud of myself in Britain's culture and history (although I don't think it makes me "superior" to anyone else). The problem is that many of those who profess to be the most patriotic don't really give a damn about the institutions and ideas that actually give us something to be proud of (i.e. the NHS, the arts, our heritage of political liberalism and social tolerance).

    I don't have a problem with people celebrating St George's Day, but to me it represents patriotism at its most useless and performative - a day to say "isn't it great being English" while doing absolutely nothing for the betterment of the society you're supposed to love so much. In fact, many so-called patriots seem to actively despise a large proportion of their fellow countrymen, as evidenced by a lot of the replies in this thread.

    More than anything, I've come to dread St George's Day for the faux-outrage culture war it generates every year, just like Easter Eggs and Christmas. People aren't happy celebrating quietly, they have to launch into some Partridge-esque tirade about the PC lefties who have apparently banned being English. It's so boring.

    Alas, in this day and age when the very notion of indigenous European identity is under relentless assault, public celebration of days such as St. George's is all the more important. We must come out of the closet and figuratively combat the forces that would subjugate and replace us whenever we can.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    And if you're trying to dismiss accusations of racism, I don't think it's a good look to go around quoting a white supremacist and architect of apartheid rule.
    I know it will come as a shock that not everyone buys into the liberal leftism Pravda that it is compulsory to believe in in our 'democracy' but unlike some I'm not particularly obsessed about reducing everything to being about racism. Rhodes did more for this country than Stephen Lawrence ever did. If that's deemed a racist comment then by all means arrest me.

    Personally I don't 'think it's a good look' for an Englishman to go round calling people cretins, generally we try to come up with some barbs that at least have a bit of class. But each to their own.
    I think patriotism can be a powerful force for good, especially in instilling an idea of collective responsibility, and I find a lot to be proud of myself in Britain's culture and history (although I don't think it makes me "superior" to anyone else). The problem is that many of those who profess to be the most patriotic don't really give a damn about the institutions and ideas that actually give us something to be proud of (i.e. the NHS, the arts, our heritage of political liberalism and social tolerance).
    We're talking about being English here not British. Schoolboy stuff Sir.
    I don't have a problem with people celebrating St George's Day, but to me it represents patriotism at its most useless and performative - a day to say "isn't it great being English" while doing absolutely nothing for the betterment of the society you're supposed to love so much.
    Unlike St Patrick's day of course which everyone is expected to love despite the betterment of society extending no further than increasing Guinness's share price.

    In any event why does someone need to get a VC or write Land of Hope and Glory to be an Englishman? Obeying the law, advocating justice and fairness for all, paying your taxes and not hating everything the country was built on is more than reasonable.
    In fact, many so-called patriots seem to actively despise a large proportion of their fellow countrymen, as evidenced by a lot of the replies in this thread.
    I fail to see the correlation? How does loving Chavs, dole scroungers etc demonstrate one's patriotism?
    More than anything, I've come to dread St George's Day for the faux-outrage culture war it generates every year, just like Easter Eggs and Christmas. People aren't happy celebrating quietly, they have to launch into some Partridge-esque tirade about the PC lefties who have apparently banned being English. It's so boring.
    This I can get on board with, apart from the last bit.

    Personally I don't really need St George's day to be anything massive. For lesser nations I guess they need a day to assert how amazing they are. For the English a sneering superiority is already ingrained anyway so we can just shrug safe in the knowledge that we aren't a Jock, a Taff or a Paddy.

    You seem to suggest that aspiring to Partridgean values is something to be ridiculed? 'This country' is a perfect summary of where we are these days.
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 13,398
    I think it's important to celebrate St George's Day in part because you don't want to leave it and leave English identity to the far right and thue nation's dumbest patriots like Nigel Farrage. It should be a endorsed by the left and the right, by everyone who loves England and English culture.Being an immigrant married to an English woman and the father of an English boy, I want my son to be proud of his roots but not blindly patriotic.
  • Posts: 233
    You seem to suggest that aspiring to Partridgean values is something to be ridiculed? 'This country' is a perfect summary of where we are these days.

    I'm not going to debate any further because I promised myself not to get into politics on a James Bond forum, and it's probably pointless seeing as we obviously have entirely different worldviews.

    However, and I know you're probably pulling my leg, but do you honestly not realise that Alan Partridge is supposed to be an unflattering parody of an idiotic, small minded little Englander? Coogan, Iannucci, et al. are all raging lefties - Coogan even appears in Labour Party political broadcasts.

    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think it's important to celebrate St George's Day in part because you don't want to leave it and leave English identity to the far right and thue nation's dumbest patriots like Nigel Farrage. It should be a endorsed by the left and the right, by everyone who loves England and English culture.Being an immigrant married to an English woman and the father of an English boy, I want my son to be proud of his roots but not

    I agree with this. As a leftie I've always thought we need to reclaim a sense of national pride in our rhetoric, it's something Orwell wrote about a lot.
  • Posts: 13,398
    Orwell spoke the truth. As usual.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Happy St George's day to all our English members !!

    Hoorah !!!!!!

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,475
    Hoorah! =D>
  • BennyBenny Classified Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 12,171
    And a happy St.George's day to you my fellow countrymen. \m/ :-bd
    As a proud nation, willing to celebrate or show support for our country, it always surprises me that St. George's day is not more widely celebrated.
  • Posts: 19,339
    People have been battling for it to be a Bank Holiday for a long time as well.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe JenaMaloneforBond.comModerator
    Posts: 12,202
    Happy St George's Day to you rabble across the border. ;) Now keep the noise down.
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