SPECTRE - Press reviews and personal reviews (BEWARE! Spoiler reviews allowed)

13132343637103

Comments

  • RC7RC7
    edited October 2015 Posts: 10,422
    patb wrote: »
    tigers99 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    It only works IMHO if you can explain the character's motivation for their behavior and we have yet to identify that. Could M have passed a USB stick to Bond as she died? Something she had just received and needed to pass on
    "Bond, a present for you", that give the writers no end of options later in terms of what was on the stick (CCTV, plans, etc) and two years to work it into the plot.
    Only Kincade would have possibly seen it so Moneypenny's line "You've got a secret " is still OK
    or , (sorry on a roll) M knew she was injured in the church so passed the USB stick to Kincade as she did not know if Bond had survived. At the start of Spectre, Kincade arrives at Bond's flat (hes a great character IMHO) and passes the stick back to Bond.



    I got the impression that she had delivered it in the post? She knew that she was having to 'retire' and wouldn't be Bond's boss anymore. Seems plausible to me.

    No, she says something about "if anything happens to me", the DVD was made as she was worried something would happen to her (I think death is the obvious reference plus Bond says, "in my mail box just after she died", implying death was the motivator for receiving the DVD) not retirement. So there is a guy who needs to be killed and his contacts at the funeral investigated (a serious international threat, not a bit part). Rather than tell someone whilst you are head of dept and alive, you dont tell anyone (including Bond) and arrange a third party to store the DVD and pass it to Bond following her death.

    She only trusted Bond by the end. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp. If this was your overriding problem during the film I would hate to live inside your head, it must be a chore.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited October 2015 Posts: 2,138
    Ok recap from what I have found out so far - Sony held back on $60M of the budget, EON were promised $300M final budget was $240M, this led to the 3rd act being reworked on a few occasions.

    The 12A certificate. The torcher scene was graphic and a deal has been done to restrict violence and sexual scenes in order for the film to be passed through by sensors as a 12A to allow the film to open to a greater audience. What did we lose? the remainder of the scene in Rome of Hinx gouging out the other assassins eyes, a substantially cut down train fight with Hinx. The Sex scene with both (Belucci) Lucia which I believe was borderline erotic soft core. And the love making scene on the train with Madeleine, which although I have not had it confirmed suspect that afterwards there was a scene with her laying on his chest talking which may have made their relationship feel more paced and genuine.

    This is why I want a directors cut with the 20 minutes Mendes lobbed off the movie re-added to the Blueray with a reviewed 15 Cert. I feel we should campaign EON for this.

    Sony should hand their head in shame because a great Bond movie could have been the best ever if Sam did not have to strip back on some of his ideas.
  • Posts: 3,951
    it is, trust me.
    If she trusted Bond, have a chat with him within the secure environment of the Aston as they drove to Scotland. She knew of the threat at that point and must have recorded the DVD which was sitting in some bank vault or similar. This is the type of stuff that the writers had years to consider and I picked up as soon as I saw it.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,422
    patb wrote: »
    it is, trust me.
    If she trusted Bond, have a chat with him within the secure environment of the Aston as they drove to Scotland. She knew of the threat at that point and must have recorded the DVD which was sitting in some bank vault or similar. This is the type of stuff that the writers had years to consider and I picked up as soon as I saw it.

    She didn't know she was going to die, but she presumed she may. The DVD could be seen as back up. Deep down she may have planned to present 007 with the Sciarra info once Silva had been dealt with, the DVD being an insurance policy.
  • Posts: 199
    FourDot wrote: »
    They really need to come up with something more novel along the lines of Moriarty being found not guilty in Sherlock or something. We have seen villains escaping from inescapable prisons way too often. For it to happen 2 films out of 3 would see MI6 closed down surely for gross ineptitude?

    Time for Blowers to use his one phonecall on the other loose end from QoS:

    latest?cb=20150928142016

    Genius Sir.

    Except they are noticeably trying to pretend QOS never happened. Multiple mentions of Le Chiffre, Vesper, Skyfall and Silva but the Quantum organisation only mentioned once and very quickly in passing.

    True, true. At the same time I suspect Kevin Feige has been trying to keep The Incredible Hulk kinda out of circulation but they're bringing William Hurt back for the next Captain America flick. It'd probably be too adventurous for EON but for Them Out There it'd just be some government bureaucrat who has a SPECTRE connection (I assume that would still be believable after this new film), and for the feverish fans it'd be an "Ohhh, right" kind of moment.

    That it's referenced at all is a bit surprising since a big part of the motivational drive of the previous film is to deny QoS in every way shape and form.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,422
    QoS isn't dismissed, it's referenced, and given that it is essentially the tail end of CR it can be considered Le Chiffre is part of the wider narrative of that story, as is White, obviously. ESB refs Vesper and M specifically and alludes to Madeleine being the third in the arc. That's why the emphasis is more on CR, SF and SP itself.
  • Posts: 1,068
    Totally agree with this scenario @RC7. M's hands were rather full with preparations for the Parlimentary enquiry and then Silva.

    Of course with Bond AWOL for 6 (?) months after the SF PTS, Mi6 would be a man short (which of course was M's best man likely lined up to examine Sciarra?) so this insurance mail drop could've been set in train by M once it was obvious Bond was fit for purpose once more - maybe Tanner (another trusted member of her inner circle) actioned it as they headed into their jaunt to Scotland with M fearing the outcome?

    Sure, they could've chatted for hours in the journey to Scotland but maybe just M was bushed after the adrenaline abated and slept the whole way planning a big chat the next day? None of this is far fetched at all.
  • Posts: 10,863
    After you've seen it, and start to think about it. There are some BIG plot holes
    In Spectre.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Oh & lets not talk about the last seen, Bond & Swan driving off into the sunset in the yet again!!!!! rebuilt DB5. Why can't they just let that bl**dy car die. It kind of sums up the problems, stop being nostalgic & start being original......

    Why is CR the best o
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Oh & lets not talk about the last seen, Bond & Swan driving off into the sunset in the yet again!!!!! rebuilt DB5. Why can't they just let that bl**dy car die. It kind of sums up the problems, stop being nostalgic & start being original......

    Why is CR the best of the Craig era, 2 reasons it was base on original Flemming material & they did a contrasting & new feeling Bond.

    Very difficult to argue with any of the points above.

    Especially about the cocking DB5. The thing was blown to buggery so can't they just leave it?

    But no once again the film makers don't have the confidence to get to the end without wheeling out this tiresome nostalgia crutch.

    Apart from anything as if it's not ludicrous enough that the British taxpayer funds bespoke Aston Martins which are then loaded with gadgets they also pay for staff to have their personal vintage vehicles repaired from a burnt out shell to pristine working order? George Osborne's austerity measures anyone? Not at MI6.

    As Bernard Lee might have commented 'I'm sure the overburdened British taxpayer would be fascinated to know how the special ordnance department disperses it's funds. In future Commander may I suggest a perfectly adequate vintage car restorer just down the street.'

    Come on Ralph get a grip! Bond's taking the piss on his expenses.
  • Posts: 12,363
    I loved the ending. Better than say having yet another Bond and Bond girl making out in hiding while MI6 is looking for them.
  • Posts: 10,863
    :)) I too had thought we'd seen the last of the db5.
  • I don't understand why they introduced quantum in the first place. Ok so the scriptwriter presumably changed and they wanted spectre but it still seems quite awkward that it's now just a subsidiary of spectre.

    And that 'author of all your pain' is just bull**** and cheapens CR and Skyfall.

    I think the film loses it when Bond and Lea get driven to Blofeld's place.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I don't understand why they introduced quantum in the first place. Ok so the scriptwriter presumably changed and they wanted spectre but it still seems quite awkward that it's now just a subsidiary of spectre.

    And that 'author of all your pain' is just bull**** and cheapens CR and Skyfall.

    I think the film loses it when Bond and Lea get driven to Blofeld's place.

    Because they had not gotten the rights back to SPECTRE.

    Original fans understand the significance of SPECTRE as oppose to such ersatz fill in organizations as Quantum.

    Just depends on your perspective as to whether that is BS or not.

    To each his own.
  • I've read that there's a rumour EON are thinking about going back to the 60's using a new actor & the guy who did 'Mad Men', that might be interesting.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 3,537
    I've read that there's a rumour EON are thinking about going back to the 60's using a new actor & the guy who did 'Mad Men', that might be interesting.

    As in Matthew Weiner? Or Jon Hamm?
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 330
    Matt Weiner to write, not Jon Hamm, maybe he could be Bond although he's a liitle old to be a new Bond at 44. Read it on Mail online so probably a bit dubious.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I don't understand why they introduced quantum in the first place. Ok so the scriptwriter presumably changed and they wanted spectre but it still seems quite awkward that it's now just a subsidiary of spectre.

    And that 'author of all your pain' is just bull**** and cheapens CR and Skyfall.

    I think the film loses it when Bond and Lea get driven to Blofeld's place.

    Because they had not gotten the rights back to SPECTRE.

    Original fans understand the significance of SPECTRE as oppose to such ersatz fill in organizations as Quantum.

    Just depends on your perspective as to whether that is BS or not.

    To each his own.

    What about retconning QOS to have Quantum as SPECTRE all along? Swap the Q lapel badge for a little octopus with CGI and get an Almaric impersonator to come in and say 'I told you everything about Quantum.'

    The title would still make sense because both Bond and Camille get their quantum of solace for Vesper and her father respectively. And calling the organisation Quantum in the first place was a shit idea just to make the title make more accessible to the moronic public.

    The notion that there was this shadowy organisation that wanted to take over the world but actually this was only a subdivision of an even more powerful shadowy organisation that wanted to take over the world is retarded in the extreme.

    But because in pretty much everyone's eyes - EON, critics, cinema going public - QOS has been conveniently airbrushed out of history.
  • Posts: 11,312
    Matt007 wrote: »
    On reflection does anyone think that this is definitely the first part of an unofficial two parter. Maybe B25 it will pick up with Peter Hunts unrealised start to Diamonds are forever.

    Well that was mentioned several days ago - but dont worry I dont think intellectual property theft applies on internet forums so I wont sue you ;)
    andmcit wrote: »
    Why not a return for ESB, Himx and Madeline?

    Bond can't just drive off in his Aston into the sunset WITH the girl and not have the rug pulled out from under him!

    He's a really unlucky kinda guy where nice stuff doesn't happen. Still x2 years with Madelone before she lets herself go a bit could make up for the wheels falling off the wagon on the next outing.

    Can't see it being anyone but DC

    Are they doing Hunt's original idea for OHMSS with the film ending with the Aston driving off into the sunset and then the PTS for DAF starting with the killing of Tracy?

    PTS of Bond and Madeline still together (married?) interspersed with action scenes of Blofeld escaping culminating in Madeline being assassinated and into the title song.

    Then could have a full on adaptation of Fleming's YOLT. The early scenes of Bond having a mental collapse would appeal to Dan and Mendes sense of character arc and then a finale of Bond killing Blofeld (maybe even have Irma Bunt return?) and then ending up with amnesia would be a fine way for Dan to sign off his bleak, gritty era. Although it is rather too close to the ground they covered in SF.

    To be honest I dont see where else they can go from here. By the rather disappointing ending of not having Blofeld escape (how about if as the chopper is going down Ernst had pressed a button labelled 'Bathosub' and a little capsule had dropped into the Thames and he's away? Too much for the Craig era? Maybe but I think I might have preferred it as Blofeld should be too clever just to have his chopper shot down without a back up plan) they are stuck with yet another Joker/Silva contrived escape from prison arent they?

    They really need to come up with something more novel along the lines of Moriarty being found not guilty in Sherlock or something. We have seen villains escaping from inescapable prisons way too often. For it to happen 2 films out of 3 would see MI6 closed down surely for gross ineptitude?

    But however they contrive to get Blofeld back into the field does it mean Madeline must come back as well? In older Bond films Bond has always ended up with the girl and then dumped her by the next film. But with the soul searching Craig era and the fact that because of the Blofeld thing the next film really has to be a continuation are we not stuck with a return for Madeline too? Arent people going to ask what happened to her?

    Just off the top of my head the PTS would be a rehash of LTK's with Bond (having quit the service to find happiness) along with a tearful MI6 team preparing for Bond and Madeline's wedding when a signal comes through that theres trouble at Blofeld's prison. Cue jumping into choppers and a big action sequence where Blofeld escapes and Bond leaves Madeline standing at the altar (the obvious thing is to kill her in the PTS but thats just too obvious IMO).

    Then we have Bond putting the wedding on hold while he goes back one last time to hunt down Blofeld and at the end, thinking he's finally dead we get the wedding and Madeline murdered. Perhaps he would actually kill Blofeld before the wedding to keep us guessing but Tilda Swinton's Irma Bunt would come back to kill Madeline and become the main villain in Bond 26.

    It all seems a bit too obvious to me but if EON want to use this then fine but, my previous comment notwithstanding, I will sue if I dont get a credit in the final film!

    I had just been thinking earlier that it really feels like the first of a two parter. I had completely forgotten that Hunt wanted OHMSS to end with the happy couple driving off into the sunset (TBH thank god he didn't get his way).

    Your thesis makes a lot of sense.
  • Posts: 1,068
    Really, hands up those that DONT think we'll be seeing the second and completing part of this in Mendes/DC's final film with a showdown between Bond and a more deranged vengeful ESB. Maybe even with Swann and Hinx
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,312
    My hands not up fyi.

    It's all open isn't it. I suppose it really does suggest a 'sequel' with Mendes directing, but they've done it in such a way that they could also just do a standalone or recast.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    I'm seeing SP for the third time either tomorrow or Saturday and I really love the SP meeting. So creepy and sinister. Even Oberhauser whispering to his aid to move the mic closer to him. Hinx with his sinister entrance and harrowingly dispatching a colleague to Bond's exciting escape. Really need to see this film again.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,422
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I'm seeing SP for the third time either tomorrow or Saturday and I really love the SP meeting. So creepy and sinister. Even Oberhauser whispering to his aid to move the mic closer to him. Hinx with his sinister entrance and harrowingly dispatching a colleague to Bond's exciting escape. Really need to see this film again.

    I love the cue that is used for Hinx's entrance and reprised later.
  • RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Your comment about London being deserted is well made - the world of this film felt very empty. That may be deliberate but I missed passer-by carnage here, if that makes sense!

    I think it is. It's not a coincidence and many have picked up on it in various locales.

    This is a good point. Did they spunk their entire extras budget in Mexico? Because Rome, London and Austria are all deserted. As is that train - why are Bond and Madeline the only people in the restaurant car? Even the waiter disappears when Hinx comes in.

    I'd considered whether it's for artistic reasons. The notion of Spectres (ghosts), death etc and you only ever really see people for whom death may be just around the corner. The only populated scene being that where everyone is 'dead'.

    I like this thought. I think it is a stylistic choice
  • Obvious second thought - they played on the double meaning of the title, hence that (unnecessary) title card
  • why didn't the drill have any effect on Bond?
  • Posts: 1,068
    As much as I found SP totally fabulous and on a par with CR I get the sense that all Mendes' bullets weren't fired and used to maximum effect with some still in reserve to fight another day.

    With the suggestion of a slimmed down budget from Sony in the end, I'd speculate he's gone along with it all on the promise once funding is clearer with a certain future for EON's next one that he (and DC) can go out with a bang that will blow everyone away.

    In the meantime he set the good but less ambitious ending we've got with SP now?

  • Come on It's Bond & Blofield! should have been awsome but wasn't.

    As I said a few pages back, I think this is Blofeld 'origins' story - the showdown is presumably B25 which is what I'm hoping for. A grand full on Bond spectacular now that all the elements are in place. Though I have to say, they're taking their time getting there!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,422
    Obvious second thought - they played on the double meaning of the title, hence that (unnecessary) title card

    I figured the title card was a direct reference to Oberhauser/ESB.
  • Posts: 1,068
    Why else would DC be making a play this is his last outing when the main course is still to come with him and Waltz integral to it all? If he'd gone on about the next one whilst plugging SP the world would rumble SP is just one of a pair and it just being ESB's origins groundwork which would devalue the hype and expectation following SF.

    Maybe the crazy idea he spoke of in interviews about his initial pitch to EON for SP wasn't that Bomd actually get's to keep the girl and ride off into the sunset but there'd be two films now not the one?

    I still love SP whatever the future outcome!
Sign In or Register to comment.