Why Craig's Bond isn't as close to Fleming as you think?

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  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 390
    One thing I would like to see in Craig's tenure (besides naval uniform, GB at the start, girl at the end, and a skiing scene) is his fine wine knowledge. Perhaps in a dinner scene with the villain or Bond girl?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    RC7 wrote:
    I said read again because you made a knee-jerk reaction to responses to a fake story.

    Yes, I agree. Sort for time at that instant and what not. Though it deserves even more of a tearing into for being false on top of being quite a dim statement. Anyway, moving on...
    One thing I would like to see in Craig's tenure (besides naval uniform, GB at the start, girl at the end, and a skiing scene) is his fine wine knowledge. Perhaps in a dinner scene with the villain or Bond girl?

    THIS I am all in for.
  • Posts: 194
    I would love to see Craig in a skiing scene, or something of the like (Dalton in TLD for example). I feel like it's a staple of the character and there would be something missing if he didn't have some sort of chase in the snow.
  • Posts: 140
    The old 'He hates Craig' line! No I don't hate the man that would be plain silly. He is a good actor who has played several interesting parts.

    The amount of angry, young men on this website is amazing. You don't have any arguments to support that Craigs Bond is cultured. Your responses are lazy, pseudo-rude (you make snide remarks instead of being brave and upfront).

    You afford Craig's Bond every consideration and defense especially claiming that he is Flemings Bond when there is not one iota of evidence of it on the screen.

    Bain says I am taking the ship remark out of context. Am I? I cannot picture any other screen Bond making a reply like this.

    You make up your mind from what you see but not with Craig's Bond.

    People here say:

    You are taking the martini scene from Casino Royale out of context.

    You are taking the Vesper dressing Bond scene out of context.

    You are taking the Bond tipping Mathis into a bin out of context.

    Do you know of course I am. I forget it is Craigs Bond. He just leaps from the pages of Flemings books.





  • Posts: 1,052
    The books and films are such different beasts, Bond does a lot of soul searching in the books and you get inside his head because he speaks to the reader though his thoughts but the films are action/ thrillers, it really is hard to convey Bonds inner being in film compared to a book.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,352
    For some reason, you just can't seem to like both Dalton & Craig. Well I do. I even like LTK, which has, with Sanchez, one of the best villains in the entire series.

    For me, they are even closer to Fleming's vision than Connery. Besides, Dalton was a sir who waited 5 years to resign. How many actors would do that?
  • The main Problem is(at least in my opinion) that Flemings picture of Bond wasn't a very coherent one. He describes him as a total Professional, the "Perfect machine",whatever, yet he Never acts acordingly (there aren't too many fictional spies that Act so much like a moron than Bond does). Fleming tells us he is kind of cruel looking,yet he wanted Cary Grant or actually someone who looked like a young David Niven (acording to Barbara Broccoli),two Man with a distinctivly different Aura (with Niven it's the wimp Aura if you ask me). Fleming tells us Bond i a misogynist, but this Guy falls in Love with just about any Woman he shaggs. Hell, he even gets engaged with Tiffany in DAF,which is hardly more than a Gangster Slut!
    Regarding the Craig Thing ... Well, Mr Fleming strongly rejected Connery as an too Big Bodybuilder and not being suave enough. What then would he have thought about Craig? I think you get the picture.
    By the Way - Vesper seemed to think,that Bond looked like a Moviestar, so i guess it is fair to say,that Fleming wanted HIS Bond distinctivly handsome!
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited February 2013 Posts: 3,352
    Fleming liked Connery the minute he saw Dr.No, hence the Scottish heritage he gave the character.

    I'm pretty sure he would've liked DC & TD as well.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,175
    I heard he thought Dr No was "dreadful" and didn't change his view until after FRWL.

    I suspect he realised people liked Connery so was prepared to be more flexible with his opinion and accept the man.

    I have noticed though that most of the descriptions Fleming gives of Bond are quite vague.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited February 2013 Posts: 3,352
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I heard he thought Dr No was "dreadful" and didn't change his view until after FRWL.

    I suspect he realised people liked Connery so was prepared to be more flexible with his opinion and accept the man.

    I have noticed though that most of the descriptions Fleming gives of Bond are quite vague.

    I'm pretty sure he changed his opinion after Dr. No.

    Edit - here we are: "Ian Fleming didn't originally like the casting of Sean Connery as James Bond. Bond was English and Connery was Scottish, Bond was upper-class and Connery was working-class, Bond was refined and educated and Connery was too rugged. After seeing the film, Fleming softened and decided that Connery was perfectly cast. In the novel "On Her Majesty's Secret Service," Bond was revealed to have Scottish ancestry and Bond's girlfriend Tracy Vicenzo was described with Ursula Andress' details."
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 1,644
    That quote from Edgar Fleming is interesting. I've never read a quote from any of Fleming's relatives. It's a welcome contrast to Roger Moore's (over-the-top?) praise of Daniel Craig.

    I doubt Ian Fleming would have seen much of James Bond in Craig's performances but times have moved on. I doubt Fleming would have seen much of James Bond in Eon's Moonraker!

    "that Flemings picture of Bond wasn't a very coherent one."

    Yes, I think that's a fair view.

    Fleming wanted Richard Burton to play James Bond, he also wanted Roger Moore. Two actors with very different screen personas. Burton gritty and earnest in approach, Moore a lot smoother and heroic in style.
  • Posts: 11,175
    fanbond123 wrote:
    That quote from Edgar Fleming is interesting. I've never read a quote from any of Fleming's relatives. It's a welcome contrast to Roger Moore's (over-the-top?) praise of Daniel Craig.

    I doubt Ian Fleming would have seen much of James Bond in Craig's performances but times have moved on. I doubt Fleming would have seen much of James Bond in Eon's Moonraker!

    "that Flemings picture of Bond wasn't a very coherent one."

    Yes, I think that's a fair view.

    Fleming wanted Richard Burton to play James Bond, he also wanted Roger Moore. Two actors with very different screen personas. Burton gritty and earnest in approach, Moore a lot smoother and heroic in style.

    I've heard from Rog himself that this story apparently isn't true - or at least Rog never knew of it.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 1,644
    Is the Edgar Fleming quote genuine? I found a link to the quote on a site called: THE SPOOF:

    http://www.thespoof.com/news/entertainment-gossip/45809/daniel-craig-voted-worst-james-bond-of-all-times

    That site seems to be a joke site, not meant to be serious.

    Regarding casting of the role, it's been documented that Fleming wanted Richard Burton to play the role.

    "“At the time he was doing Camelot and enjoying great stardom because of it,” says Burton’s great-nephew Guy Masterson.

    “My uncle told me that Ian Fleming had approached him, asking him to play Bond. But back then, in 1959, Bond was a new concept – nobody had any idea it would be as big as it became.

    “My uncle told me that he thought it was going to be ‘just another movie’.”

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/news/index.php?itemid=5402
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    @fanbond123, if you read the first comments of this thread you'll see that we realized right from the start it was a sham. There is no grandson.
  • AliAli
    Posts: 319
    I've only read three of the novels so far, but I don't find the literary Bond cold hearted, calculating and elitist at all. Most of his confrontations have relied on his wits and improvisation, he spends a lot of time reflecting on his own mortality and he gets genuinely scared for his own and his colleagues' lives. The writing may appear elitist and racist, but I guess it has to be remembered they were a product of the '50s. Attitudes were VERY different back then.

    And I still prefer Brosnan to Craig and Dalton. So nyah.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,351
    Ali wrote:
    And I still prefer Brosnan to Craig and Dalton. So nyah.
    See, I can understand this, being the Brosnan fan that I am.
    I mean, Dalton's better, ;) but we each have our tastes. It's all good.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,352
    Richard Burton as Bond? that just wouldn't have worked.
  • None of the cinematic Bonds are Fleming's Bond. The closest IMO would be Dalton but the cinematic version was always going to be its own beast.
  • Posts: 533

    I don't really like the literary Bond. And I am more than relieved that none of the actors who have portrayed the character bore a close resemblance to the literary Bond.



    Out of all the people who did or could have played Bond over the years, I believe Fleming would have preferred Jason Issacs to all others, him having that Hoagy Carmichael look so often referenced.
    That said, he would have loved Dalton.




    If Fleming had his way, Sean Connery would have never portrayed the character. I say that we should be grateful that he never had his way.
  • Posts: 2,341
    I think it was the DP for OHMSS who during the search for Connery's replacement, said "Bond has the sophistication of Cary Grant and the menace of Jack Palance. Find an actor with these qualities and you have your new Bond." or words to that effect.

    Craig has the menace down to a tee but he may lack the sophistication that the other 5 Bonds before him possessed. Yes, even Brosnan had sophistication and I am not a fan of his.

    That being said, Craig is a beloved James Bond and I am pleased with his portrayal. I like Craig the way he is and who needs sophistication these days? Craig has brought his own take to the character and I for one am pleased with him. He does look good in his tux and perhaps in later films they will soften him up more. But who cares?

  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,352
    Problem with Brosnan was that he was too much the cliché Bond, it seems that the writer sometimes just wanted a blatant copy of Moore, without acknowledging PB is actually not a bad actor at all.


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