Casting a Mr. Moneypenny?

2

Comments

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2012 Posts: 6,006
    DarthDimi wrote:
    echo wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    echo wrote:
    A gay Q makes more sense than a gay Moneypenny.

    People need to consider the purpose of having these beloved characters turned gay before they start making wild suggestions. Q has never been anything besides businesslike and MP's always been fond of Bond. Why change that? It makes no sense. In what way could we possibly benefit from such a thing? What extra values does this add to the series and to our viewing experience? None.

    The purpose of Q to Bond has never been sexual. Q's purpose is to supply Bond with equipment. Moneypenny is another story: her character is all about flirtation with Bond.

    But sexual orientation isn't all about sex. It's about who a person is. And a gay Q could add a potentially interesting detail to a fairly one-note, stock character.

    Did it bother you when they made Felix Leiter black, or M a woman? And if it did, why did it? Did their new race or gender change the underlying purpose of the character? A change in sexual orientation for someone who is not a romantic interest for Bond would be the same thing.


    I disagree. Firstly, skin colour and even gender do not attract specific attention to them. Sexual preferences need to be either spelled out or demonstrated by obvious actions. I wonder in what sense that could help a Bond movie. Secondly, what sort of potentially interesting details could be added to Q if he were made gay? The very purpose of this character is to give Bond his tools. Anything that adds more weight to this character would feel out of place. In Q's case, being one-note is actually a good thing. Thirdly, sex is a far more intimate part of our lives than the colour of our skin or our gender. It's illogical to claim that they play on the exact same level.

    It's sexual orientation, not sexual "preference." Straight people don't "prefer" or "choose" to be straight. They just are.

    Of course skin color and gender draw specific attention. There have been many threads here debating M's gender and Leiter's race. The question is why can't Bond films have a character with a different sexual orientation? And why is it automatically a bad idea that his or her sexual orientation is known to the audience? Could there be a gay 00? Certainly there have been many gay spies in British history.

    There have been rare occasions when we have seen glimpses of M and Leiter's personal lives. M has been in bed with a man; she has also referenced her children. Bond attended Leiter's wedding. Why couldn't Q be developed in a minor way as well, if the story called for it?
  • Posts: 12,506
    Moneypenny is a well established female charactor and it should remain that way. This is similiar to an earliar thread where somebody suggested Bond being a woman! By all means keep it real, modern, up to date, or as a reboot! But do not change everything that has got us all to 50 years and counting.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2012 Posts: 15,694
    echo wrote:
    Why couldn't Q be developed in a minor way as well, if the story called for it?

    Q scenes last about 3/4 minutes........... how are you going to develop a character that only shows up for 5 minutes every 2 years ? and what would you add to the character ? Q has a boyfriend that is getting vetted by the secret service ? how stupid is that ?
  • Posts: 2,189
    echo wrote:
    Why couldn't Q be developed in a minor way as well, if the story called for it?

    Q scenes last about 3/4 minutes........... how are you going to develop a character that only shows up for 5 minutes every 2 years ? and what would you add to the character ? Q has a boyfriend that is getting vetted by the secret service ? how stupid is that ?

    Q had a few prolonged involvements in Octopussy and LTK. It's not like we need to spend a third of the movie exploring his past, just write some depth into the dialogue. Again though, making him gay was not my suggestion, and I wouldn't support that as I agree, I think it changes tthe charector too much.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 1,856
    echo wrote:
    Why couldn't Q be developed in a minor way as well, if the story called for it?

    Q scenes last about 3/4 minutes........... how are you going to develop a character that only shows up for 5 minutes every 2 years ? and what would you add to the character ? Q has a boyfriend that is getting vetted by the secret service ? how stupid is that ?

    Q had a few prolonged involvements in Octopussy and LTK. It's not like we need to spend a third of the movie exploring his past, just write some depth into the dialogue. Again though, making him gay was not my suggestion, and I wouldn't support that as I agree, I think it changes tthe charector too much.

    And If Wishsaw is good I wouldn't mind a Octopussy and LTK style Q appearance. I mean how many M heavy movies have we had in the last 13 years.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,637
    Virage wrote:
    I mean how many M heavy movies have we had in the last 13 years.

    Two too many. ;-)

    Seriously, I usually don't mind Q showing up when he does, but I think that making him a field operative is stretching things.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,905
    Moneypenny as a guy man?

    If that happened, I would stop watching Bond (it's not as if i'm impressed with what EON have done with Bond over the last few years as it is). That would be one change too far. IMO, it's either Miss Moneypenny or no Moneypenny.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,694
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Virage wrote:
    I mean how many M heavy movies have we had in the last 13 years.

    Two too many. ;-)

    Seriously, I usually don't mind Q showing up when he does, but I think that making him a field operative is stretching things.

    what do you want to add to the Q character ? He has a daughter that has a crush on Bond ? His son wants to become a 00-agent ?
  • Posts: 1,856
    ,
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Virage wrote:
    I mean how many M heavy movies have we had in the last 13 years.

    Two too many. ;-)

    Seriously, I usually don't mind Q showing up when he does, but I think that making him a field operative is stretching things.

    what do you want to add to the Q character ? He has a daughter that has a crush on Bond ? His son wants to become a 00-agent ?

    It's just the little details across the years we got from Desmond over the years. Like he likes fishing (TWINE) and all.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Virage wrote:
    ,
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Virage wrote:
    I mean how many M heavy movies have we had in the last 13 years.

    Two too many. ;-)

    Seriously, I usually don't mind Q showing up when he does, but I think that making him a field operative is stretching things.

    what do you want to add to the Q character ? He has a daughter that has a crush on Bond ? His son wants to become a 00-agent ?

    It's just the little details across the years we got from Desmond over the years. Like he likes fishing (TWINE) and all.

    Little details like the fishing are fine but I don't want Q's life story. It's bad enough how much they use M. I wouldn't mind if they used him in a LTK style way though, but I don't want it to be that way in every film.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,006
    Virage wrote:
    ,
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Virage wrote:
    I mean how many M heavy movies have we had in the last 13 years.

    Two too many. ;-)

    Seriously, I usually don't mind Q showing up when he does, but I think that making him a field operative is stretching things.

    what do you want to add to the Q character ? He has a daughter that has a crush on Bond ? His son wants to become a 00-agent ?

    It's just the little details across the years we got from Desmond over the years. Like he likes fishing (TWINE) and all.

    Little details like the fishing are fine but I don't want Q's life story. It's bad enough how much they use M. I wouldn't mind if they used him in a LTK style way though, but I don't want it to be that way in every film.

    It occurred to me while listening to the YOLT soundtrack today that, back in the old days, when M and Moneypenny went on location, they were still enacting the same basic office scene that they did in London. It's only been with Dench--who I think is a fantastic actress, for the record--that she's gone into the field so often.
  • I could be wrong, but I think, of all the major cast members, Ben Wishaw is the only one we haven't seen anything of at all, which kind of makes you think he's pretty much tied to Pinewood and presumably Q's lab. (I know they can do some pretty amazing mock ups of outdoor locations at Pinewood, but I think he'd of popped up in a photo somewhere if he was going to venture into the field)
  • Posts: 1,856
    I could be wrong, but I think, of all the major cast members, Ben Wishaw is the only one we haven't seen anything of at all, which kind of makes you think he's pretty much tied to Pinewood and presumably Q's lab. (I know they can do some pretty amazing mock ups of outdoor locations at Pinewood, but I think he'd of popped up in a photo somewhere if he was going to venture into the field)

    Or a second unit shoot, Actually we haven't seen that much of the girls either.
  • Posts: 820
    Well further it was right from the beginning Eve is the new Miss Moneypenny. If you all so the Skyfall in the end She introduce herself full to James Bond.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    @Agent7J this is the third thread in which you reveal a major plot point about Skyfall without using spoiler tags.
    I realise Skyfall is on general release now, but Please consider other members who are yet to see the film.
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    edited November 2012 Posts: 260
    This thread makes me sick, Ian Fleming would punch you in the face. Seriously this is so politically correct. How About we make the next M Chinese ? how about we have the next Bond girl be a bond man thats a gay? how about we have the next Bond be a gay black woman to appease not only the black's and feminists, but the gays as well.

    seriously this thread is a disgrace. If EON ever goes this far I'm done with the series and am going to re-read all of the Fleming books to remind myself what James Bond really is all about, instead of the kiddy politically correct cinema route.
  • Posts: 774
    If EON ever goes this far I'm done with the series and am going to re-read all of the Fleming books to remind myself what James Bond really is all about

    Yet you criticised some of the more Fleming-esque elements in Skyfall?
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    edited November 2012 Posts: 260
    I'm sorry but there were hardly any Fleming type moments in skycrap...please name a few to amuse me though
  • Posts: 774
    I'm sorry but there were hardly any Fleming type moments in skycrap...please name a few to amuse me though

    A disillusioned Bond quitting/wanting to quit, Bond missing a target have a literary precedent, The Living Daylights. Bond being shown as a conflicted character (with regards to death, his duty etc) seen in the opening pages of Goldfinger. Bond's implied painkiller use/abuse, seen in Live and Let Die and Moonraker. The sophistication and brutality of the character, a theme throughout all the books.
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    edited November 2012 Posts: 260
    or maybe just a complete rip off of the dark Knight series ...

    I agree those are minor Fleming tyoe moments, but I dont just want a bond movie with mere moments that reflect Fleming's bond, I want a whole movie that reflects Flemings interpretation of bond both in story and character ..

  • Posts: 774
    Can't imagine how much you suffered through the Roger Moore years if this is how you view Skyfall.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Volante wrote:
    I'm sorry but there were hardly any Fleming type moments in skycrap...please name a few to amuse me though

    A disillusioned Bond quitting/wanting to quit, Bond missing a target have a literary precedent, The Living Daylights. Bond being shown as a conflicted character (with regards to death, his duty etc) seen in the opening pages of Goldfinger. Bond's implied painkiller use/abuse, seen in Live and Let Die and Moonraker. The sophistication and brutality of the character, a theme throughout all the books.

    Well said @Volante =D>
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 158
    I don't really see any problem at all in a male Moneypenny.

    Once you accept that Moneypenny is a codeword for the position, not the person, like Q or M, Moneypenny could easily be a guy.

    As for Moneypenny being overtly gay - why not, as long as it was all in good humor and Bond never compromises his image. This is the 21st century.

    Bond flirting with gay enemy agents would be another thing - very real to life. Bond would flirt with anybody if it meant he could get the information he needs. This is nothing new. Look at the Anthony Blunt case. The cold war was very much a man's game and it seems there were many gay spies, or spies pretending to be gay. Anyway, Bond almost came out in Skyfall, when he raised doubts about his sexuality to Silva!

  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    Posts: 260
    why does the bond franchise have to address the homosexual issue? why? see this is what I mean when I say EON is politically correct.

    Can't anything be pure and maintain its root cause ? does everything in modern culture have to appease every minority and social group? I hate our culture . its sick disgusting and no longer has any morals. To the author of this thread I am disgusted with your thread.
  • Posts: 158
    why does the bond franchise have to address the homosexual issue? why? see this is what I mean when I say EON is politically correct.

    Can't anything be pure and maintain its root cause ? does everything in modern culture have to appease every minority and social group? I hate our culture . its sick disgusting and no longer has any morals. To the author of this thread I am disgusted with your thread.

    It's called the real world. Some people are gay. Get over it. Bond movies should to some degree reflect reality. Get over it. You sound like a homophobic, which doesn't surprise me.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,334
    why does the bond franchise have to address the homosexual issue? why? see this is what I mean when I say EON is politically correct.

    Can't anything be pure and maintain its root cause ? does everything in modern culture have to appease every minority and social group? I hate our culture . its sick disgusting and no longer has any morals. To the author of this thread I am disgusted with your thread.

    Funny, everybody feels the same way about you and your posts. Grow up will you.
  • Posts: 774
    why does the bond franchise have to address the homosexual issue?

    It's not really an issue. Personally I don't think there should be a Mr Moneypenny because it doesn't serve any useful purpose. But 'homosexual issue' implies that there's a problem with people being gay, I don't think that's true at all.
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    edited November 2012 Posts: 260
    BondBug wrote:
    why does the bond franchise have to address the homosexual issue? why? see this is what I mean when I say EON is politically correct.

    Can't anything be pure and maintain its root cause ? does everything in modern culture have to appease every minority and social group? I hate our culture . its sick disgusting and no longer has any morals. To the author of this thread I am disgusted with your thread.

    It's called the real world. Some people are gay. Get over it. Bond movies should to some degree reflect reality. Get over it. You sound like a homophobic, which doesn't surprise me.

    So introducing homosexuality into a bond movie is reflecting reality? umm were talking about a movie franchise about a womanizing blunt instrument secret agent for the British government ...why in the hell would EON introduce any type of homosexuality into a film unless it was being politically correct.

    How about a bond movie that reflects reality with a good realistic story and plot? lets get bond back to Flemings formula and ditch a the stupid action scenes and cheesy humour.

    Dr.No FRWL and Casino Royale are the best 3 bond movies, those 3 should be the template for the next Bond.

    I'm so sick of all these politically correct opinions, Ian Fleming was such a womanizer and had no political correctness inside him at all. If he were alive to see what EON has done witj Bond over the past few decades he would say, "What ? this isnt james bond..what did u do to my character? ".

  • Posts: 158
    BondBug wrote:
    why does the bond franchise have to address the homosexual issue? why? see this is what I mean when I say EON is politically correct.

    Can't anything be pure and maintain its root cause ? does everything in modern culture have to appease every minority and social group? I hate our culture . its sick disgusting and no longer has any morals. To the author of this thread I am disgusted with your thread.

    It's called the real world. Some people are gay. Get over it. Bond movies should to some degree reflect reality. Get over it. You sound like a homophobic, which doesn't surprise me.

    So introducing homosexuality into a bond movie is reflecting reality? umm were talking about a movie franchise about a womanizing blunt instrument secret agent for the British government ...why in the hell would EON introduce any type of homosexuality into a film unless it was being politically correct.

    How about a bond movie that reflects reality with a good realistic story and plot? lets get bond back to Flemings formula and ditch a the stupid action scenes and cheesy humour.

    Dr.No FRWL and Casino Royale are the best 3 bond movies, those 3 should be the template for the next Bond.

    I'm so sick of all these politically correct opinions, Ian Fleming was such a womanizer and had no political correctness inside him at all. If he were alive to see what EON has done witj Bond over the past few decades he would say, "What ? this isnt james bond..what did u do to my character? ".

    How you make me laugh! You basically say Fleming would turn in his grave if he knew gay characters were in a Bond movie. Fleming had gay characters in his books! Ever heard of Wint and Kidd? Fleming put gays in his books! Get over it! Gays are part of the real world and the Bond world! Get over it!
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    Posts: 260
    Im not against Gay characters being in the movie as long as they have their place and are original.
    I do have a problem making established characters like moneypenny a gay man though. that is just unnecessary and a politically correct move.
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