A place for disappointed skyfall viewers

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  • edited November 2012 Posts: 12,837
    actonsteve wrote:
    NicNac wrote:
    But the reason everyone fell in love with the films in the first place was because Bond became this indestructible creature who could run, jump, shoot, ski, surf, drive, fly and parachute better than anyone else. He is a funny, charming womaniser who knows everything about sherry, caviar, exotic fish and butterflies.
    There is nothing Bond can't pilot, sail or drive when need be and that's why we love him, because he is so ridiculously clever and adaptable.

    In other words....you want a cartoon character. Why not just watch a Hana Barbera cartoon.?

    He's right though. Bond isn't a normal man, even in the books and the more realistic films he's a bit of a superman. If you don't like that version of Bond which Bond films do you actually like?
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    Posts: 260
    I'll answer that. FRWL, CR, DR.NO & LTK. As for all the others, meh...
  • Posts: 1,492
    actonsteve wrote:
    NicNac wrote:
    But the reason everyone fell in love with the films in the first place was because Bond became this indestructible creature who could run, jump, shoot, ski, surf, drive, fly and parachute better than anyone else. He is a funny, charming womaniser who knows everything about sherry, caviar, exotic fish and butterflies.
    There is nothing Bond can't pilot, sail or drive when need be and that's why we love him, because he is so ridiculously clever and adaptable.

    In other words....you want a cartoon character. Why not just watch a Hana Barbera cartoon.?

    He's right though. Bond isn't a normal man, even in the books and the more realistic films he's a bit of a superman. If you don't like that version of Bond which Bond films do you actually like?

    He isn't a superman. He's a man with human qualities ie reflection, ennui, arrogance, snobbery, compulsive obcessiveness, jadedness, cynicism and loyalty.

    Some actors and films turned him into a cartoon. I wonder which ones?

  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    Posts: 260
    CR rebooted the series in a serious manner, they got rid of all the nonsense, stupid jokes, unnecessary kiddy gadgets and the usual cliched villain. CR brought Bond back down to Earth and I loved it. We saw Bond bleed, we saw him get tortured, we saw him get his heart broke, we saw him mature and overcome obstacles of mistrust, anger and inexperience in his work. It was a movie with emotion, passion, great a action when necessary and over all a fantastically written script . Daniel in CR was to the point and made Bond a menacing, brute force hitman but at the same time he instilled a sense of warmth within his personality that made him.likeable.

    After seeing CR I finally thought to myself, "Dear God EON finally did it, they made the perfect Bond, a bond movie that could both appease the Bond Fleming Fans and the Bond Cinema fans. Again after seeing CR I assumed the bond franchise was finally heading into a new direction that would be gritty, darker and overall more serious. But after seeing Skyfail all of my expectations of that have completely disappeared. I feel as if skyfail was a script written for Pierce Brosnan, rather than Daniel Craig. I also feel like EON felt rushed and introduced the classic characters like Q, Moneypenny and the new M in too quickly/sloppfully just for the pure reason of the anniversary , rather than taking the time to incorporate them into a well-crafted story that truly could have introduced them in a more original fashion.

    I feel like the reboot era of Craig is slowly turning the clocks back and is entering into a route already taken with Brosnan. It amazes me how so many people on here praise skyfail? seriously how?


  • edited November 2012 Posts: 12,837
    @actonsteve He has human qualities but he's still always a bit of a superman, he always does stuff normal people could almost never do. Even in the more realistic films. EG

    In Licence To Kill he dodges machine gun fire, hijacks an oil tank truck and dodges an RPG by tilting the truck onto two wheels.

    In The Living Daylights he escapes armed police by sliding away on a cello case.

    In Casino Royale despite only having a wall covering half his body, some glass and a human shield (who only gets hit once if I remember), he makes it through a corridor being pelted with machine gun fire.

    In Skyfall he gets shot twice, falls off a train into a river and survives, he also manages to take down an entire army of goons with barely any weapons (and only 2 old people as allies).

    Could a normal guy do all that?
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    edited November 2012 Posts: 260
    @actonsteve said

    "He isn't a superman. He's a man with human
    qualities ie reflection, ennui, arrogance,
    snobbery, compulsive obcessiveness,
    jadedness, cynicism and loyalty.
    Some actors and films turned him into a
    cartoon. I wonder which ones?"

    Basically every one of them except Dr.No, FRWL, CR and LTK. And even LTK had some corny moment ln it, Bond doing a wheelie in a semi-truck? come on are you kidding me? what idiot thought of that scene. but all in all I will throw LTK into the more realistic list.

    MOST REALISTIC AND SERIOUS BONDS IN ORDER
    1 FRWL
    2 DR NO
    3 CR
    4 LTK

    as for the rest, they all have cartoon bond moments, especially Moore's outings. dear god:/

    and even the ones I listed in the realistic list have they're cartoony moments, except maybe FRWL. I am going to say FRWL is the most realistic bond out of all
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    actonsteve wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    NicNac wrote:
    But the reason everyone fell in love with the films in the first place was because Bond became this indestructible creature who could run, jump, shoot, ski, surf, drive, fly and parachute better than anyone else. He is a funny, charming womaniser who knows everything about sherry, caviar, exotic fish and butterflies.
    There is nothing Bond can't pilot, sail or drive when need be and that's why we love him, because he is so ridiculously clever and adaptable.

    In other words....you want a cartoon character. Why not just watch a Hana Barbera cartoon.?

    He's right though. Bond isn't a normal man, even in the books and the more realistic films he's a bit of a superman. If you don't like that version of Bond which Bond films do you actually like?

    He isn't a superman. He's a man with human qualities ie reflection, ennui, arrogance, snobbery, compulsive obcessiveness, jadedness, cynicism and loyalty.

    Some actors and films turned him into a cartoon. I wonder which ones?

    @actonsteve, everything I listed was from Bond films. It was what the character was all about. He did all those things. Didn't he?

    Or have I been watching cartoons all these years?

    I like the fact the series changes. It has to adapt and adopt, it's the only way things can progress. However Bond has always been something of a superman, a smart Alec, a show off. It isn't a cartoon it's the way Bond has always been, and the way he is now. In SF he handled a bike like a pro, jumped onto a moving tube train, survived a fall from a bridge etc, the same things he has always been doing to differing degrees.
  • Posts: 1,492
    @actonsteve He has human qualities but he's still always a bit of a superman, he always does stuff normal people could almost never do. Even in the more realistic films. EG

    In Licence To Kill he dodges machine gun fire, hijacks an oil tank truck and dodges an RPG by tilting the truck onto two wheels.

    In The Living Daylights he escapes armed police by sliding away on a cello case.

    In Casino Royale despite only having a wall covering half his body, some glass and a human shield (who only gets hit once if I remember), he makes it through a corridor being pelted with machine gun fire.

    In Skyfall he gets shot twice, falls off a train into a river and survives, he also manages to take down an entire army of goons with barely any weapons (and only 2 old people as allies).

    Could a normal guy do all that?

    I~ am talking about the books dear. Thats the DNA of the character. Some Bond actors played the character as themselves and twisted the character to that mould.

  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    edited November 2012 Posts: 260
    I like how you included "dear" in there @actonsteve . I like you're style in language while getting a bit snippy. anyways god bless
  • Posts: 1,492
    NicNac wrote:
    [
    Or have I been watching cartoons all these years?

    KI expect so..
    NicNac wrote:
    [I like the fact the series changes. It has to adapt and adopt, it's the only way things can progress. However Bond has always been something of a superman, a smart Alec, a show off. It isn't a cartoon it's the way Bond has always been, s.

    By your answer, if Bond changes and progresses then he is perfectly entitled to take a more human path and more serious take. The superman Bond always ends up as a cartoon eventually.
  • 50 years on the character is bound to have changed and evolved, bond tends to reflect the era he is in at the time. The films tended to play to what the producers directors and writers thought were the actors strengths at that time.

    I like Craig and find his first two films very good, i like his bond in CR and QoS, they got what Craig was good at brutal and physical a bond who was imposing and not to be messed with.
  • I've read all that's been said, maybe as fans we read too much into what's after all meant to be entertainment. I think that Bond is a behemoth, in other words the character is so much bigger than any actor's or script writer's interpretation, we all have a personal vision of what bond should be.

    I don't hate Craig's efforts or the current story curve, but I don't love it, I've seen SF twice and I liked it better the second time and the ending gave me hope again in the same way that I loved CR from the off and had great hopes, I still think that there is a great deal of potential for his style and portrayal, but IMO it'll take a really good imaginative script to take the series forward, a single stand alone story with no references to what's past, so I say, give John Logan a chance, Barbara & Michael G stay away, let this guy show his talent, let him write an original script and let's see what happens......?
  • actonsteve wrote:
    @actonsteve He has human qualities but he's still always a bit of a superman, he always does stuff normal people could almost never do. Even in the more realistic films. EG

    In Licence To Kill he dodges machine gun fire, hijacks an oil tank truck and dodges an RPG by tilting the truck onto two wheels.

    In The Living Daylights he escapes armed police by sliding away on a cello case.

    In Casino Royale despite only having a wall covering half his body, some glass and a human shield (who only gets hit once if I remember), he makes it through a corridor being pelted with machine gun fire.

    In Skyfall he gets shot twice, falls off a train into a river and survives, he also manages to take down an entire army of goons with barely any weapons (and only 2 old people as allies).

    Could a normal guy do all that?

    I~ am talking about the books dear. Thats the DNA of the character. Some Bond actors played the character as themselves and twisted the character to that mould.

    I thought were talking about the films. Fair enough the books are more realistic. But even they have OTT moments in them. I think the books are the DNA of the character but I like how the series changes. My favourite Bond is Dalton, who was really close to the books, but I like all of them and I think if they were all close to the books it'd get boring.

    In the films, he's always a bit of a superman.

    @DRESSED_TO_KILL I don't get why you're a fan of the Bond films at all. Like I said, he's always a bit of a superman. You don't like the comedy, the gadgets, etc. You don't like lots of the stuff that's part of the cinematic Bond so why not just stick to the books (which can also be pretty unrealistic).
  • Posts: 11,189
    There's usually a logic to the stuff Bond did in the books. Even in the most unlikely of situations Fleming would give an explanation behind it.

  • CR rebooted the series in a serious manner, they got rid of all the nonsense, stupid jokes, unnecessary kiddy gadgets and the usual cliched villain. CR brought Bond back down to Earth and I loved it. We saw Bond bleed, we saw him get tortured, we saw him get his heart broke, we saw him mature and overcome obstacles of mistrust, anger and inexperience in his work. It was a movie with emotion, passion, great a action when necessary and over all a fantastically written script . Daniel in CR was to the point and made Bond a menacing, brute force hitman but at the same time he instilled a sense of warmth within his personality that made him.likeable.

    After seeing CR I finally thought to myself, "Dear God EON finally did it, they made the perfect Bond, a bond movie that could both appease the Bond Fleming Fans and the Bond Cinema fans. Again after seeing CR I assumed the bond franchise was finally heading into a new direction that would be gritty, darker and overall more serious. But after seeing Skyfail all of my expectations of that have completely disappeared. I feel as if skyfail was a script written for Pierce Brosnan, rather than Daniel Craig. I also feel like EON felt rushed and introduced the classic characters like Q, Moneypenny and the new M in too quickly/sloppfully just for the pure reason of the anniversary , rather than taking the time to incorporate them into a well-crafted story that truly could have introduced them in a more original fashion.

    I feel like the reboot era of Craig is slowly turning the clocks back and is entering into a route already taken with Brosnan. It amazes me how so many people on here praise skyfail? seriously how?

    I could go on and on but its pointless, anyways I'm going to cook some stew.

    How very true they just can't help it make a great Bond then stick two fingers up to the fans
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    Posts: 260
    I'm glad you agree with me @craigrules

    . It's good to see others who feel the same way around here for once, rather than the usual mainstream slaves who eat everything they're fed by the politically correct mainstream culture.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited November 2012 Posts: 16,331
    I'm glad you agree with me @craigrules

    . It's good to see others who feel the same way around here for once, rather than the usual mainstream slaves who eat everything they're fed by the politically correct mainstream culture.

    That's a stupid way to look at people who don't share your opinion with things.

    OH I HATE SKYFALL THAT MAKES ME AWESOME, EVERYONE WHO LIKES SKYFALL ARE DUMB DOWN MASSES WHO EAT UP THIS SLOP HAR DE HAR HAR!

    Some people like Skyfall get over it pal.
  • @Murdock I'm not even talking to him anymore. Just ignore him and flag his comments, he'll be banned again soon enough.
  • Murdock wrote:
    I'm glad you agree with me @craigrules

    . It's good to see others who feel the same way around here for once, rather than the usual mainstream slaves who eat everything they're fed by the politically correct mainstream culture.

    That's a stupid way to look at people who don't share your opinion with things.

    OH I HATE SKYFALL THAT MAKES ME AWESOME, EVERYONE WHO LIKES SKYFALL ARE DUMB DOWN MASSES WHO EAT UP THIS SLOP HAR DE HAR HAR!

    Some people like Skyfall get over it pal.

    Anyone on this forum who does not like it is called a troll or worse they should get over it
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Saw Skyfall and must say the film was a departure from formula but a strong film in it's own right. Not once during it, did I think back to a 60's or 70's Bond. It didn't even remind me of a 90's Bond. The only time was with the DB5 but it was much subtler in how it was played in context to the film's mood.

    Skyfall had a very sombre tone in the first hour and is an excellent psychological thriller.

    I think it is a great James Bond story and very believable, The film was gritty and the audience were transfixed. The audience was quiet apart from a few scenes like the couple at the underground station when Bond jumps on the tube train.

    This is a film that stands on it's own and I cannot with any logic compare it to a previous pre-reboot Bond film.

    This is a film showing James Bond and the reality of his job as well as consequences.

    I went to see it with four people and they all said they think the film was a change in direction and in a positive way too. Gritty and not treating the audience like an idiot is how they described it.

    And the ending was very sad with M and I felt true emotion from Bond like in LTK.

    I thought Daniel did a great job as Bond and did not make anything too obvious or predictable which some previous Bond films are guilty of.

    This is a Bond film which will appeal even to people who do not like Bond based on the past films.

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 7,653
    This thread is a place for people who are dissapointed about the movie SF.

    How is it possible that it is highjacked by the same people that find SF bloody brilliant and love Saint Craig. If you are not dissapointed you bugger of to your threads and leave us dissapointees all to ourselves while you "dears" go to your thread for happy campers go and feel bloody superiour.
  • SaintMark wrote:
    This thread is a place for people who are dissapointed about the movie SF.

    How is it possible that it is highjacked by the same people that find SF bloody brilliant and love Saint Craig. If you are not dissapointed you bugger of to your threads and leave us dissapointees all

    Well I liked it but I was disappointed in some parts and I like talking to people or reading posts that have different opinions to me.
  • Posts: 7,653
    SaintMark wrote:
    This thread is a place for people who are dissapointed about the movie SF.

    How is it possible that it is highjacked by the same people that find SF bloody brilliant and love Saint Craig. If you are not dissapointed you bugger of to your threads and leave us dissapointees all

    Well I liked it but I was disappointed in some parts and I like talking to people or reading posts that have different opinions to me.

    I do not mind that at all but as so often we get the crowd in here that start bashing all previous Bonds in oreder to tell you why SF is better.
    There are some people just dissatisfied with the Craig movies due to their content and they should be able to speak up about it without a Brosnan, Moore or Lazenby bashing which they excel in but leave no space for others to tell why they love it.

  • SaintMark wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    This thread is a place for people who are dissapointed about the movie SF.

    How is it possible that it is highjacked by the same people that find SF bloody brilliant and love Saint Craig. If you are not dissapointed you bugger of to your threads and leave us dissapointees all

    Well I liked it but I was disappointed in some parts and I like talking to people or reading posts that have different opinions to me.

    I do not mind that at all but as so often we get the crowd in here that start bashing all previous Bonds in oreder to tell you why SF is better.
    There are some people just dissatisfied with the Craig movies due to their content and they should be able to speak up about it without a Brosnan, Moore or Lazenby bashing which they excel in but leave no space for others to tell why they love it.

    I do agree with you, sometimes it feels like you can't say anything negative about some Bonds but others (mainly Brosnan) get bashed on here almost every day.
  • I think Craig is a great bond just did not like Skyfall. If connery or lazenby were in skyfall would not have made a difference. It should not be a big deal if some one has a different opinion.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    SaintMark wrote:
    This thread is a place for people who are dissapointed about the movie SF.

    How is it possible that it is highjacked by the same people that find SF bloody brilliant and love Saint Craig. If you are not dissapointed you bugger of to your threads and leave us dissapointees all to ourselves while you "dears" go to your thread for happy campers go and feel bloody superiour.

    Though I enjoyed the film, if you read between the lines of what I wrote, it is a departure which is why I can see why some traditionalist Bond fans will not like.

    This movie is radically different from the Goldfinger or TSWLM.

    Me, though I love old Bond, believe you cannot keep flogging a dead horse.


  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited November 2012 Posts: 16,331
    craigrules wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    I'm glad you agree with me @craigrules

    . It's good to see others who feel the same way around here for once, rather than the usual mainstream slaves who eat everything they're fed by the politically correct mainstream culture.

    That's a stupid way to look at people who don't share your opinion with things.

    OH I HATE SKYFALL THAT MAKES ME AWESOME, EVERYONE WHO LIKES SKYFALL ARE DUMB DOWN MASSES WHO EAT UP THIS SLOP HAR DE HAR HAR!

    Some people like Skyfall get over it pal.

    Anyone on this forum who does not like it is called a troll or worse they should get over it

    I don't care if @DRESSED_TO_KILL hates Skyfall, but I don't like being called "the usual mainstream slaves who eat everything they're fed" Because I do like Skyfall.
  • Posts: 173
    acoppola wrote:

    Though I enjoyed the film, if you read between the lines of what I wrote, it is a departure which is why I can see why some traditionalist Bond fans will not like.

    This movie is radically different from the Goldfinger or TSWLM.

    Me, though I love old Bond, believe you cannot keep flogging a dead horse.


    Out of curiosity, how would you rate SF... out of 10, @acoppola?
  • 100 Things We Learned From Skyfall
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1074638/board/thread/206887021?p=1


    Teaser..
    1. Range Rovers on dirt roads are quicker than trains.

    2. M is short for emma

    3. A physical with MI6 doesn't see shrapnel as needing immediate medical attention.

    4. Rats can be conditioned to eat each other.

    5. Bond will *beep* a sex slave.

    6. Bond feels he is more accurate holding a gun with one hand and not two.

    7. M knows how to make pipe bombs.

    8. Bond has gone to bat for the other team.

    15. M was the real Bond Girl of this movie, despite her age.

    20. Silva must steal an island, steal a hard-drive containing a NATO list, hack into MI6 and create an explosion, lure James Bond back into action and leave a trail back to Silva causing him to be caught and held hostage at the MI6 headquarters, plan a complex and unreliable escape through the London underground...

    ... All so Silva can waltz into a courtroom guns blazing in a completely unorganized assault on M where a lot of armed guards are present.

    23. Standard operating procedure to search and clear a house for a particular person you want alive and unharmed. First, send in a dozen men trained to kill. Second, use a helicopter's mounted machine gun on the house until everything is cut to Swiss cheese. Third, throw firebombs in until the place is a raging inferno. Fourth, instruct whoever is left standing that they shouldn't harm a single hair on that one person's head who for all intents and purposes shouldn't be alive inside

    31. While in the long and complex process of being a spy turned international terrorist mercenary who is planning the revenge against everyone one has ever known, one can make time to purchase centuries old dueling pistols and fine scotch.

    32. James Bond just can't stop finding himself.

    33. A Bond movie is now a weird mixture of a reference catalogue, a Nolan Batman film, and a British crime drama.

    34. A proper time to reintroduce Q is a movie without gadgets. (No, the 48 years old Aston Martin does not count and comes from old Q anyway.)

    35. 007 can break an enemy's neck even when he's in mid-air.

    37. Q gives Bond a radio transmitter and a gun and then says "Try to bring back the equipment in one piece". Aha

    36. When your plan to protect your superior consists of nothing but an isolated house without weapons and backup, then your superior will die.

    38. Moneypenny is black.

    39. And an action figure.

    44. The best agent in the world loses his skills within a few weeks.

    49. Unarmed Silva can kill two guards that stand several feet away from him. The Force? Or could he be Professor Xavier?

    51. Bond stays at home.

    55. The Walther PPK can open an iron door.

    56. Silva owns London (men, uniforms, cars, explosives).

    57. Sévérine's bodyguards don't carry guns and therefore have to borrow one from Bond.

    58. When you take a knife in the back, you should get angry and walk in slo-mo towards your attacker instead of just grabbing the gun you had 2 seconds ago and with your dying breath, shoot the woman you swore vengeance on (which is what you were going to do anyways before you got hit with the knife).

    59. If you want to attract a hot woman, have a long conversation about fear and death.

    62. If you're the director, kill the hottest woman halfway through so that your young male-dominated audience will only have a cranky old lady to stare at for the rest of the film.

    65. A house explosion that causes enough shrapnel to take out an armored helicopter will not tear apart an unprotected villain who is standing nearby.


    100 Things We Learned From Skyfall
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1074638/board/thread/206887021?p=1

    Enjoy!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    ^
    I got a good laugh out of some of those.
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