Would you rather a return to the dénouement OR a return of the romantic ending?

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  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 698
    thedove wrote: »
    Nice thoughts. I do think of the two it would be more likely for Bautista to return as he looks very different and could play a totally different character. I rather like when actors return to the fold and really enjoyed some of the returnees from the legacy or EON films.

    Would you rather a return to the dénouement OR a return of the romantic ending?

    These two types of endings are dotted across the series. Both have their place, during the Craig era neither was really evoked which makes me wonder if we might see a return.

    The denouement endings were featured heavily in Hamilton directed films. GF, DAF, LALD and TMWTGG all featured these little endings. Often the baddie or henchman was lurking and would spring a last attack on our man.

    Think Wint and Kidd on the cruise ship, the train fight between Tee Hee and Bond and even Nick Nack attempting revenge on the junk. They left the audience with a bit of action, some humour and became the bow on the movie.

    OR

    The romantic ending. These started to be a staple of the film really in the Dalton and Brosnan era's. Bond and the main girl alone at last and ending the film in a romantic way. Think OP, TLD, LTK, TWINE, and DAD all feature this type of ending. It ends the film with some romance in the air. Good if the relationship between the characters had been a focal point of the movie.

    Which one would you rather see a return to?

    Romantic its part of Bond too.
  • Posts: 16,146
    Romantic, but please no Bond and the "Bond girl are hiding and making out". It's been done to death. Make it closer to the novels, if possible.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited October 4 Posts: 3,293
    thedove wrote: »

    Would you rather a return to the dénouement OR a return of the romantic ending?

    The denouement endings were featured heavily in Hamilton directed films. GF, DAF, LALD and TMWTGG all featured these little endings. Often the baddie or henchman was lurking and would spring a last attack on our man.

    I think I would add FRWL to that list with Klebb turning up as the chambermaid in Bond and Tatiana's hotel room. A case could also be made that OHMSS had that sort of ending but with as we all know a tragic ending instead of the standard happy one.
    thedove wrote: »
    The romantic ending. These started to be a staple of the film really in the Dalton and Brosnan era's. Bond and the main girl alone at last and ending the film in a romantic way. Think OP, TLD, LTK, TWINE, and DAD all feature this type of ending. It ends the film with some romance in the air. Good if the relationship between the characters had been a focal point of the movie.

    TLD is my personal favorite of that style of ending.
    thedove wrote: »
    Which one would you rather see a return to?

    Dénouement also known as "sting in the tail" ending. We haven't really had one since Guy Hamilton left the series 51 years ago and we've had plenty of the romantic ones since so I think we're overdue for one.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,670
    I want an exhilarating, uplifting, victorious ending with a beautiful woman in Bond’s arms as he gives her a quip and a kiss.
  • Posts: 389
    Denouement
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,396
    talos7 wrote: »
    I want an exhilarating, uplifting, victorious ending with a beautiful woman in Bond’s arms as he gives her a quip and a kiss.
    This.

    There's no reason we can't be treated to both options - have a henchperson pop up following the main villain's death and threaten the girl which Bond has to save afterwards, i.e. TND.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,292
    Eh, I dunno; both options feel a bit played out to me. The Brosnan films all ended on a romantic clinch and, although I liked the films, I don't remember hugely enjoying the endings, they felt a bit perfunctory and like they were there because they had no better ideas. I think all of the Craig films had better endings to be honest.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,670
    What in cinema hasn’t been “ played out “ ? The key is to find originality for an enduring character/ franchise and what fans of that character/ franchise desire.

    Tom Cruise and company nailed it with Top Gun: Maverick
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,292
    talos7 wrote: »
    What in cinema hasn’t been “ played out “ ? The key is to find originality for an enduring character/ franchise and what fans of that character/ franchise desire.

    Yeah and as I say, the Craig films nailed it for this fan. Who doesn’t love the ending of CR?
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 698
    talos7 wrote: »
    What in cinema hasn’t been “ played out “ ? The key is to find originality for an enduring character/ franchise and what fans of that character/ franchise desire.

    Tom Cruise and company nailed it with Top Gun: Maverick

    I think big budget really showed in Maverick i saw it in new cinema.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,150
    mtm wrote: »
    Eh, I dunno; both options feel a bit played out to me. The Brosnan films all ended on a romantic clinch and, although I liked the films, I don't remember hugely enjoying the endings, they felt a bit perfunctory and like they were there because they had no better ideas. I think all of the Craig films had better endings to be honest.

    I think the Brosnan endings were fairly strong. The only one that stands out to me in a bad way is TND as there was never really any sign of chemistry between Bond and Wai Lin and yet they are clinching on a piece of the ship wreck together.

    I actually liked the ending to GE when the marines pop up around Bond and Natalya. The TWINE ending was a groaner but called back a bit to some of the Moore type endings. The Moneypenny VR scene interrupted the flow of the ending with Bond and Jinx.
  • Nothing wrong with an ending where Bond gets the girl - in fact after having 4 of the last 5 Bond films ditch that type of ending it’d feel incredibly welcome.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,401
    thedove wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Eh, I dunno; both options feel a bit played out to me. The Brosnan films all ended on a romantic clinch and, although I liked the films, I don't remember hugely enjoying the endings, they felt a bit perfunctory and like they were there because they had no better ideas. I think all of the Craig films had better endings to be honest.

    I think the Brosnan endings were fairly strong. The only one that stands out to me in a bad way is TND as there was never really any sign of chemistry between Bond and Wai Lin and yet they are clinching on a piece of the ship wreck together.

    I actually liked the ending to GE when the marines pop up around Bond and Natalya. The TWINE ending was a groaner but called back a bit to some of the Moore type endings. The Moneypenny VR scene interrupted the flow of the ending with Bond and Jinx.

    Oh, come on! The GE ending is nonsense since there is not a sound to be heard until the marines pop up... in Huey helicopters, which are infamous for making a lot of noise. The TWINE ending was indeed a groaner. And the DAD ending with Bond and Jinx in that temple is just...cringe-inducing. I'd say that the TND ending, no matter how much nonsense happened before it, is the only acceptable one in all of the Brosnan films. Give me any of the "final villain/henchman attacks" of the other films any time.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,150
    Interesting how we can view things differently. GE is a popcorn movie, logic is sometimes not strong here. I love the pick up and carry and the giggle from Natalya. It's a cute ending to the film for me. I understand it doesn't make much sense.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,292
    thedove wrote: »
    Interesting how we can view things differently. GE is a popcorn movie, logic is sometimes not strong here. I love the pick up and carry and the giggle from Natalya. It's a cute ending to the film for me. I understand it doesn't make much sense.

    My favourite bit about that is that because the helicopters are hovering above the shot until right at the end, James Bond can't hear them :D
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,401
    I'm sure that Q was right about 007 just not paying attention.
  • Posts: 1,986
    mtm wrote: »
    Eh, I dunno; both options feel a bit played out to me. The Brosnan films all ended on a romantic clinch and, although I liked the films, I don't remember hugely enjoying the endings, they felt a bit perfunctory and like they were there because they had no better ideas. I think all of the Craig films had better endings to be honest.

    This. At least the Craig endings felt more like out of the Fleming novels where Bond wasn't always in the best position and sometimes worn down by what he's experienced. The LTK and the latter two Brosnan endings felt forced complete with the bad dad jokes.
  • edited October 5 Posts: 534
    mtm wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    Interesting how we can view things differently. GE is a popcorn movie, logic is sometimes not strong here. I love the pick up and carry and the giggle from Natalya. It's a cute ending to the film for me. I understand it doesn't make much sense.

    My favourite bit about that is that because the helicopters are hovering above the shot until right at the end, James Bond can't hear them :D

    Perhaps we were too harsh on Stacey?

    While the original "denouement" in Bond (Wint and Kidd vs Bond on the Queen Elizabeth in Fleming's DAF) is one of my favourite passages, it perhaps only works for me because it isn't exactly true to the trope! Since one of the Spangs is alive it makes sense for a henchman to chase after in revenge, whereas in many films it never exactly made sense what they had to gain for going after Bond at their own expense.

    The romantic endings, while perhaps more cliche, fit better for me.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited October 6 Posts: 6,150
    To me the DAF, LALD and TMWTGG endings were a personal nature. Tee Hee was now part of a destroyed network and had no leader so he's going for revenge. Nic Nack has just watched his inheritance go up in flames. I do think Wint and Kidd make the least sense from a film perspective.

    GF and FRWL both have the big bad coming back to tangle one last time. Klebb in desperation to gain the Lektor and Goldfinger to tidy up a loose end and gain revenge on Bond.

    QOS has this type of ending now that I am thinking more about it. The Guy Haines ending would have even had more of this type of ending.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,945
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I'm sure that Q was right about 007 just not paying attention.

    Would you? if you had Isabell- eh, Natalya in your arms?

    I don't really care for the ending as long as it fits the story and isn't an afterthought. I thought TMWTGG was quite nasty, and, as was stated above, TND is the best for Brozzers' Bond. It makes sense and fits the story.

    It all depends on the style they're going for, and as of now, I haven't got a clue where they're going to take him.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,992
    Although somewhat repetitive/mirroring (CR/QoS and SF/SP), the Craig endings are interesting because they all differ from the tropes in some way.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 7 Posts: 19,292
    I guess Spectre is as close as they got to the trad romantic/happy ending, and to be honest I kind of preferred it to most of those.

    What are folks favourite/least favourite endings i.e. final scenes?
    I'd probably go for CR as my favourite as it just leaves you feeling so pumped, although I really like FRWL (even though it doesn't really make sense!); and I'd put MR up there for being just so wonderfully outrageous.
    Least favourite probably TND, because it's like they felt like it had to end on that note even though it didn't ring true to the relationship between the characters at all and just falls a bit flat. The Maxwell gag is good though.

    The TB one is weird: it has that amazing stunt (it's hard to believe that thing is real, they take off at such a speed you'd think their necks would break. Tom Cruise really needs to do that one!) and yet it kind of has no impact and nothing really goes on with the characters, and then the film just suddenly stops. An odd one- sort of both good and bad.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,992
    I think the ending of TLD is kind of perfect.

    TWINE is my least favorite, so crude. And DAD repeats the offense. At least MR adds some panache to its innuendo.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,945
    For me both CR and QoS are very memorable and are perfect endings to the story. I love TB as well, as @mtm said, the stund was epic and it does make some sense. Allthough, obviously, sending a helicopter would've been a lot easier (and safer).
    Come to think of it, though I don't like the movie much, Spectre does have a fitting end. It's just the getting there that I really don't like. Oh, and Dr. No, is nice as well.

    My least favorite is TMWTGG. That one is just evil. Other than that, I think most are ok.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,150
    I find the TND and FYEO rather weird in that both have Bond and the female lead together and doing romantic things when there really hasn't been much of time or care paid to the romance aspect of their relations.

    When you think of Carole's age and her shedding of the bathrobe to a man almost old enough to be her father...cringe.

    Best endings? I will always love the OHMSS and I don't mind the Bond theme swelling after. I actually quite enjoy the DAF ending and it's cute teasing of Case proposing to Bond at the end. The TLD is well done, though not a fan of the comedy "We got held up at the airport".
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 7 Posts: 19,292
    My least favorite is TMWTGG. That one is just evil. Other than that, I think most are ok.

    Yeah, it's got a decent quality filthy gag, but there's something about Bond going to that island to kill Scaramanga and steal his solex gadget, and then ending up nicking his yacht and shagging the girl in Scaramanga's actual bed that all seems a bit lower and grubbier than Bond's usual style. Plus torturing Nick Nack as I think you allude to: it really is the film where James Bond is a proper bastard.
    But then Lulu sings his name and it does make it a bit better.
  • Posts: 1,986
    My favorites are CR and OHMSS and the final shot of LALD, something that breaks the cycle of Bond and the girl. CR just leaves you exiting the cinema on a high note with the line and the Bond theme.

    TWINE and DAD are among the least, although LTK with the uncharacteristic Dalton jumping into a pool and the winking fish being too cutesy for what went before. It cries out for a Craig era ending.

    TND seems to be getting some negatives, but wasn't that and the next two Brosnan endings Eon just following the tropes? It took the Craigs to say Bond doesn't have to end up with a girl and a bad quip to send the audience home on a satisfying note.
  • Posts: 2,238
    For an action ending, Bond kills the villain and absorbs the enormity of what he's done. The ending with the girl -- no quips.
  • I think the Connery endings were probably the worst, as in the fact that they didn't really have much to them; Bond and a girl embrace in private, most of the time over water, and nothing too entertaining is said.

    Lazenby's ending of course is quite poignant and is really well done.

    Moore's endings are probably are the trope definers in that he ended the film with the girl and with a funny line in a comedic scenario. LALD tries it with the disarming line, but I think TMWTGG is the first funny one with "Goodnight sir." It felt like the ending was a sketch to reward the viewer with a laugh for making it through the film.

    Dalton's endings try to go for sweet and romantic, perhaps trying to touch on that side of Fleming's character. While Fleming's endings did have a romantic element to them, they were often in the context of Bond being seriously injured and weakened, adding to the caring dynamic of the relationships. These endings fall flat by comparison.

    Brosnan's endings do kind of replicate Connery's. While some may hate the pun, TWINE is the most inventive of the Brosnan era.

    Craig's era subverted tropes in the meat of the film I suppose, so they tried to end with an upper. I'm not sure about NTTD but the other four end on a Bond theme and a Bond moment: Bond saying the line and catching Mr. White in CR, him regaining M's trust and leaving behind Vesper in QoS, him getting back to work, and then him taking the refurbished DB5 out for a spin in SP. In NTTD that manifests with Madeleine telling his story in the DB5.

    In terms of endings I like Moore's the most: I think his endings are the ones with the most rewatch value and apart from FYEO they pretty all hit the mark comedically (and maybe OP and AVTAK have weak jokes, but I still find them funny). The Craig endings aren't rewarding without the entire film (and if one doesn't buy into the film than the ending loses value) and the others are a bit cookie-cutter
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,150
    Brosnan's were not like Connery endings. Connery never did a quip at the end, that was Moore era. Connery's all ended with the girl but Connery never uttered a cringy line of dialogue. Aside from Kissy it made sense for him and the woman to be romantic.

    "Keeping the British end up sir." curtain drops and it is assumed that Bond and Triple X start to shag with their superiors right there.

    "For your eyes only darling." Cringe. No real romance between 20 year old Melina and 50 year old Moore. Yet they are going for a skinny dip.

    Moore's best ending is OP and I think that is where his era should have ended.

    "Drat I dropped the soap." cringe. This time 57 year old Bond and 20 something lady who never really had any romance in the film are now having sex in a shower. Moore's last utterance is an exaggerated "Ohhhh"


    It is funny how Moore's are extolled on here and Brosnan which matches that tone get ripped. I actually think Pierce consistently takes arrows that are meant for others.

    From the movies I have watched in the cinema I would say Craig's first three are great endings. I remember really being pumped at the end of GE. Dalton's were strong, though some comedy and a somewhat cheery Leiter undo that ending for me.
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