Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited August 5 Posts: 9,724
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The only issue/continuity with Vesper is that she's only revealed to be 23 when she died

    That's the least of NTTD's many problems though, it's a part of NTTD's so many problems.

    How can that even be considered a problem? It's a blink-and-you-miss-it detail that is never relevant to the plot whatsoever.

    I was going to say the same. And I’m well aware of the film’s shortcomings, but I wonder if some can even appreciate the talent and effort that went into that script where they solved certain issues from the film before, while simultaneously creating an entirely new story and characters for Craig’s last film.

    In the end, no film comes off unscathed and perfect in execution from first frame to last. Not one. But in the end, each to their own…
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,351
    I was madly in love with Diana Rigg as Emma Peel around 1966/67, to the extent a ten-year old could be madly in love. I also think she was one of the better actors in the Bond series, especially if you only consider the "Bond girls". But then Tracy was never meant to be just another Bond girl, but had a sort of fully-rounded role as a central character, and Diana Rigg played her perfectly. However, my gripe is with that character. I never found the idea of James Bond falling in love with that spoiled-brat, borderline psychopath credible, neither in the novel nor in the movie. Then again, I never thought any woman falling in love with the Lazenby Bond credible, either.
  • Borderline psychopath?! Surely she was just mildly neurotic!
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 5 Posts: 4,068
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I was madly in love with Diana Rigg as Emma Peel around 1966/67, to the extent a ten-year old could be madly in love. I also think she was one of the better actors in the Bond series, especially if you only consider the "Bond girls". But then Tracy was never meant to be just another Bond girl, but had a sort of fully-rounded role as a central character, and Diana Rigg played her perfectly. However, my gripe is with that character. I never found the idea of James Bond falling in love with that spoiled-brat, borderline psychopath credible, neither in the novel nor in the movie. Then again, I never thought any woman falling in love with the Lazenby Bond credible, either.

    Well, Lazenby have a Masculine, boyish charm, he was close to the book in that sense (but again, the film stayed close to the book), given Bond's descriptions in the books, I never thought any woman falling in love with him credible either (I don't find Hoagy Carmichael attractive or even charming in any sense and the literary Bond also came across as unlikable and a bit of a creep either, even for its time, but like Lazenby, I can get the sense that he had this sort of boyish, masculine charm that makes women swoon, I'm female so I can understand this, with me reading him in the books, I can't help but be attracted to him either).

    I do agree with you regarding the Tracy character, but at least in the film, Tracy have been fleshed out for us to know what she could do more: aside from showing her driving skills in Stock Car Race, she can also drive a horse, proved to be witty, resourceful, a great skiier, and a capable fighter against Gunther, no doubt Bond married her, she could be everything, she was even capable of holding a gun.

    And she's not a fully fledged neurotic person like she was in the book which came across also as exaggerated and a bit annoying, Diana Rigg added more class to the character, she's much more realistic and believable as a human being compared to the one dimensional character in the book, hence, she's an improvement over the book.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 5,133
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I was madly in love with Diana Rigg as Emma Peel around 1966/67, to the extent a ten-year old could be madly in love. I also think she was one of the better actors in the Bond series, especially if you only consider the "Bond girls". But then Tracy was never meant to be just another Bond girl, but had a sort of fully-rounded role as a central character, and Diana Rigg played her perfectly. However, my gripe is with that character. I never found the idea of James Bond falling in love with that spoiled-brat, borderline psychopath credible, neither in the novel nor in the movie. Then again, I never thought any woman falling in love with the Lazenby Bond credible, either.

    Well, Lazenby have a Masculine, boyish charm, he was close to the book in that sense (but again, the film stayed close to the book), given Bond's descriptions in the books, I never thought any woman falling in love with him credible either (I don't find Hoagy Carmichael attractive or even charming in any sense and the literary Bond also came across as unlikable and a bit of a creep either, even for its time, but like Lazenby, I can get the sense that he had this sort of boyish, masculine charm that makes women swoon, I'm female so I can understand this, with me reading him in the books, I can't help but be attracted to him either).

    I do agree with you regarding the Tracy character, but at least in the film, Tracy have been fleshed out for us to know what she could do more: aside from showing her driving skills in Stock Car Race, she can also drive a horse, proved to be witty, resourceful, a great skiier, and a capable fighter against Gunther, no doubt Bond married her, she could be everything, she was even capable of holding a gun.

    And she's not a fully fledged neurotic person like she was in the book which came across also as exaggerated and a bit annoying, Diana Rigg added more class to the character, she's much more realistic and believable as a human being compared to the one dimensional character in the book, hence, she's an improvement over the book.

    Raymond Benson commented that it was the mysteriousness of Tracy that Bond is attracted to. The filmmakers needed to show Tracy being a unique character. So that is how it seemed the filmmakers approached this part of the story. Richard Maibaum said that OHMSS was his favorite of the Fleming novels. It shows. It is a great story due to its faithfulness and taking off-beat chances when necessary.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,904
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I think Eva Green is a bit miscast, but I do think she's very sexy.

    Because she's half-French?

    I mean, I think she's perfect in the role, and certainly better than the runner-up, Olivia Wilde.

    Eva Green is pretty. But her multiple moles and freckles can be very distracting. Particularly in the casino scenes in CR.

    That's a very odd argument, if you'll permit me saying so. No offence ofc :)

    What I do find distracting in the casino scenes are the information lines Mathis has to give all the time: "(...) dollars in the pot", "character X has to go all in.".

    Personally I think Eva Green is the best thing about CR, she steals all the scenes she's in and I, for one, think she's a perfect fit. A huge improvement on the literary counterpart, too.

    I agree completely. Green is a very compelling screen presence and Craig matches her step for step. I don't think either's performance would be as good without the other.
  • SIS_HQ wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I was madly in love with Diana Rigg as Emma Peel around 1966/67, to the extent a ten-year old could be madly in love. I also think she was one of the better actors in the Bond series, especially if you only consider the "Bond girls". But then Tracy was never meant to be just another Bond girl, but had a sort of fully-rounded role as a central character, and Diana Rigg played her perfectly. However, my gripe is with that character. I never found the idea of James Bond falling in love with that spoiled-brat, borderline psychopath credible, neither in the novel nor in the movie. Then again, I never thought any woman falling in love with the Lazenby Bond credible, either.

    Well, Lazenby have a Masculine, boyish charm, he was close to the book in that sense (but again, the film stayed close to the book), given Bond's descriptions in the books, I never thought any woman falling in love with him credible either (I don't find Hoagy Carmichael attractive or even charming in any sense and the literary Bond also came across as unlikable and a bit of a creep either, even for its time, but like Lazenby, I can get the sense that he had this sort of boyish, masculine charm that makes women swoon, I'm female so I can understand this, with me reading him in the books, I can't help but be attracted to him either).

    This actually is a very good point that I was thinking about recently. Bond is handsome enough to charm women on looks alone; but the sketch doesn't really have that level of charm. (Hoagy Carmichael is alright looking to me). Obviously, Fleming modelled Bond's looks on him and his brother, but Carmichael bore resemblance to many film stars of the time (Tania remarks the same).

    This long-winded train of though basically brought me to the conclusion that when considering Bond's relative attractiveness, the prettier face of the typical actor (in line with Brosnan or Dalton) is probably a realistic barometer of translation.
  • edited August 6 Posts: 2,298
    "Tracy needs a real man"
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,724
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    George was an empty suit that moved about a set with a clumsy manner, and strange facial expressions and stranger deliveries ("I'll take that if you don't mind"). I see a lot of Lazenby in many of Ben Affleck's performances (in serious scenes, they have no idea why they're being serious, so they knit their brow and stare away)...
  • edited August 7 Posts: 2,640
    peter wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    +Ilse Steppat and Gabrielle Ferzetti. I think those two performances are great as well.

    I have to admit I’ve hardened up on Lazenby lately. I thought he was good in the film (though I can also recognize what others might not like about him - he really struggles in some of the exposition moments) but my issue with him comes down to conduct really. Dude was an asshole on set and from all accounts seemed like he was the hardest of all the Bonds to work with; and it looks like his decision to walk away would cause him a great deal of turmoil later on in life. He really seemed to regret making that decision and if that 90’s feud with Brosnan is any indication - it turned him quite bitter.
  • Posts: 5,711
    peter wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    +Ilse Steppat and Gabrielle Ferzetti. I think those two performances are great as well.

    Oddly I’d argue it’s some of Bernard Lee and Lois Maxwell’s best performances in Bond too.

    It’s a frustrating thing with OHMSS - it’s lead doesn’t do it justice even if he has his moments. I love it by the way, and can also acknowledge it has flaws on a creative/filmmaker level (Nolan and Soderbergh be dammed - I don’t believe this is the best Bond film by any measure). Great film though.
  • 007HallY wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    +Ilse Steppat and Gabrielle Ferzetti. I think those two performances are great as well.

    Oddly I’d argue it’s some of Bernard Lee and Lois Maxwell’s best performances in Bond too.

    It’s a frustrating thing with OHMSS - it’s lead doesn’t do it justice even if he has his moments. I love it by the way, and can also acknowledge it has flaws on a creative/filmmaker level (Nolan and Soderbergh be dammed - I don’t believe this is the best Bond film by any measure). Great film though.

    Oh yeah - Desmond has a great moment there at the end too.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 7 Posts: 4,068
    peter wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    +Ilse Steppat and Gabrielle Ferzetti. I think those two performances are great as well.

    I have to admit I’ve hardened up on Lazenby lately. I thought he was good in the film (though I can also recognize what others might not like about him - he really struggles in some of the exposition moments) but my issue with him comes down to conduct really. Dude was an asshole on set and from all accounts seemed like he was the hardest of all the Bonds to work with; and it looks like his decision to walk away would cause him a great deal of turmoil later on in life. He really seemed to regret making that decision and if that 90’s feud with Brosnan is any indication - it turned him quite bitter.

    Can't blame him, his agent convinced him that Bond was over by the 70s, and if that agent happened to be Ronan O Rahilly who owned the then successful Radio Station, Radio Caroline, his false predictions are to be taken seriously back then.

    It's like John Lennon being fooled by Alex 'Magic Alex' Mardas and The Beatles being fooled by Allen Klein.

    Ronan O Rahilly was a charlatan.

    Actually Peter Hunt was quite abrasive to him too, Peter Hunt wanted him to be isolated and be alone so he could be a better Bond, away from his co-stars in the set, not a nice advise from a director especially towards a new Bond, Terrence Young could've handled Lazenby better, as he's more hands on, Peter Hunt was one heck of a diva, actually, he was communicating and giving instructions to the cast through Telephone.

    I doubt any new Bond actor could possibly have a good working relationship with Hunt, if that was his approach.

    I believe OHMSS is one of the best Bond films, but most of the film's fault I blame towards Hunt's directions, the cast are just following him, Maibaum and Raven's screenplay was top notch as it followed the book (and I'm not a fan of the book), while improving on it, the director is the heart of every film, next to the scriptwriter.
  • SIS_HQ wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    +Ilse Steppat and Gabrielle Ferzetti. I think those two performances are great as well.

    I have to admit I’ve hardened up on Lazenby lately. I thought he was good in the film (though I can also recognize what others might not like about him - he really struggles in some of the exposition moments) but my issue with him comes down to conduct really. Dude was an asshole on set and from all accounts seemed like he was the hardest of all the Bonds to work with; and it looks like his decision to walk away would cause him a great deal of turmoil later on in life. He really seemed to regret making that decision and if that 90’s feud with Brosnan is any indication - it turned him quite bitter.

    Can't blame him, his agent convinced him that Bond was over by the 70s, and if that agent happened to be Ronan O Rahilly who owned the then successful Radio Station, Radio Caroline, his false predictions are to be taken seriously back then.

    It's like John Lennon being fooled by Alex 'Magic Alex' Mardas and The Beatles being fooled by Allen Klein.

    Ronan O Rahilly was a charlatan.

    Actually Peter Hunt was quite abrasive to him too, Peter Hunt wanted him to be isolated and be alone so he could be a better Bond, away from his co-stars in the set, not a nice advise from a director especially towards a new Bond, Terrence Young could've handled Lazenby better, as he's more hands on, Peter Hunt was one heck of a diva, actually, he was communicating and giving instructions to the cast through Telephone.

    I doubt any new Bond actor could possibly have a good working relationship with Hunt, if that was his approach.

    I believe OHMSS is one of the best Bond films, but most of the film's fault I blame towards Hunt's directions, the cast are just following him, Maibaum and Raven's screenplay was top notch as it followed the book (and I'm not a fan of the book), while improving on it, the director is the heart of every film, next to the scriptwriter.

    I’m not sure how much that stuff about Hunt is true. Richard Maibaum referred to him as a “monster” of a director in a letter penned to Cubby Broccoli before the hiring of Guy Hamilton for DAF - but that had more to do with the fact that Hunt didn’t bow down to Broccoli and Saltzmen. He actively fought for creative control over the film - even going over their heads to UA to ensure that the runtime would remain as it was. So this idea that Hunt dropped the ball when it came to directing Lazenby doesn’t ring true for me.

    For one thing, Lazenby is a notorious liar - it’s how he got the job to begin with and Charles Helfenstein mentioned coming across an interview with UA’s publicity department before filming began basically referencing his habit of fibbing. Now the only instance where Hunt did isolate Lazenby from everyone was during filming of the final scene because he wanted Lazenby to be agitated and nervous - and fair enough because that’s his best bit of acting in the entire film and a moment that I can’t see any of the other Bond’s pulling off as well as George did.

    But whatever Lazenby thought of Hunt or the others - it doesnt change the fact that he f_ed up that opportunity for himself and pissed a lot of people off with his behavior on set.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,724
    the director is the heart of every film, next to the scriptwriter.

    Yeah, that’s why even with a very weak leading man in the most iconic role of the 60s, OHMSS is still one of the best Bond films. Hunt held that film together despite Lazenby’s many weaknesses.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,821
    peter wrote: »
    the director is the heart of every film, next to the scriptwriter.

    Yeah, that’s why even with a very weak leading man in the most iconic role of the 60s, OHMSS is still one of the best Bond films. Hunt held that film together despite Lazenby’s many weaknesses.

    @peter
    I truly believe it's a missed opportunity that Hunt didn't continue directing more Bond films. Imagine if he had overseen films like DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG in the early '70s. I'm confident we wouldn't have seen some of the comedic elements that, in my humble opinion, didn't quite fit the Bond series.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 7 Posts: 18,750
    He was probably better than Hamilton, but equally I've watched/tried to get through a couple of his later films in the 70s and found them to be real snoozefests.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,821
    mtm wrote: »
    He was probably better than Hamilton, but equally I've watched/tried to get through a couple of his later films in the 70s and found them to be real snoozefests.

    I must admit that I'm overall not a big fan of Bond directors' other films. I have accepted that most of them did their best work within the series.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited 12:33am Posts: 6,904
    peter wrote: »
    the director is the heart of every film, next to the scriptwriter.

    Yeah, that’s why even with a very weak leading man in the most iconic role of the 60s, OHMSS is still one of the best Bond films. Hunt held that film together despite Lazenby’s many weaknesses.

    Agreed. Hunt surrounded Lazenby with the best actors, and arguably the best script. Hunt and Rigg are the reasons why OHMSS is as great as it is. Plus Barry and of course Maibaum and Raven. The gays did a lot to make this film great (Hunt, Raven, Steppat...). :)
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited 1:31am Posts: 4,068
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    +Ilse Steppat and Gabrielle Ferzetti. I think those two performances are great as well.

    I have to admit I’ve hardened up on Lazenby lately. I thought he was good in the film (though I can also recognize what others might not like about him - he really struggles in some of the exposition moments) but my issue with him comes down to conduct really. Dude was an asshole on set and from all accounts seemed like he was the hardest of all the Bonds to work with; and it looks like his decision to walk away would cause him a great deal of turmoil later on in life. He really seemed to regret making that decision and if that 90’s feud with Brosnan is any indication - it turned him quite bitter.

    Can't blame him, his agent convinced him that Bond was over by the 70s, and if that agent happened to be Ronan O Rahilly who owned the then successful Radio Station, Radio Caroline, his false predictions are to be taken seriously back then.

    It's like John Lennon being fooled by Alex 'Magic Alex' Mardas and The Beatles being fooled by Allen Klein.

    Ronan O Rahilly was a charlatan.

    Actually Peter Hunt was quite abrasive to him too, Peter Hunt wanted him to be isolated and be alone so he could be a better Bond, away from his co-stars in the set, not a nice advise from a director especially towards a new Bond, Terrence Young could've handled Lazenby better, as he's more hands on, Peter Hunt was one heck of a diva, actually, he was communicating and giving instructions to the cast through Telephone.

    I doubt any new Bond actor could possibly have a good working relationship with Hunt, if that was his approach.

    I believe OHMSS is one of the best Bond films, but most of the film's fault I blame towards Hunt's directions, the cast are just following him, Maibaum and Raven's screenplay was top notch as it followed the book (and I'm not a fan of the book), while improving on it, the director is the heart of every film, next to the scriptwriter.

    I’m not sure how much that stuff about Hunt is true. Richard Maibaum referred to him as a “monster” of a director in a letter penned to Cubby Broccoli before the hiring of Guy Hamilton for DAF - but that had more to do with the fact that Hunt didn’t bow down to Broccoli and Saltzmen. He actively fought for creative control over the film - even going over their heads to UA to ensure that the runtime would remain as it was. So this idea that Hunt dropped the ball when it came to directing Lazenby doesn’t ring true for me.

    For one thing, Lazenby is a notorious liar - it’s how he got the job to begin with and Charles Helfenstein mentioned coming across an interview with UA’s publicity department before filming began basically referencing his habit of fibbing. Now the only instance where Hunt did isolate Lazenby from everyone was during filming of the final scene because he wanted Lazenby to be agitated and nervous - and fair enough because that’s his best bit of acting in the entire film and a moment that I can’t see any of the other Bond’s pulling off as well as George did.

    But whatever Lazenby thought of Hunt or the others - it doesnt change the fact that he f_ed up that opportunity for himself and pissed a lot of people off with his behavior on set.

    It's not that he dropped the ball, but more likely that he didn't know how to handle Lazenby.

    Sure Lazenby lied out of his way for the role, but I think his performance was the result of Hunt misdirecting him, think of it, what if Connery had been handled by a different director in Dr. No instead of Terrence Young?

    Whatever we think of Lazenby, I think his performance could've been fixed with a right treatment from the right director, and Hunt was not at it, the two was not in good terms and it showed, actually Lazenby was quite a naive person than what people think of him: Savalas challenged him in gambling and defeated him in the game, the Producers defended Laz from it (with Cubby telling Savalas of not doing that to "his new Bond"), regarding him and Rigg's feud, it's because Lazenby, as we all know, was a womanizer, Rigg, if my memory serves, wanted to date the man (I think Rigg stated this herself at some point in a written interview), I love Rigg and all, but she had also worked with another more annoying actor than Lazenby - Oliver Reed, but she's fine with it.

    And yes, he became a victim of a bad advice from a fraud that's Ronan O Rahilly, he's no different than Allen Klein, a Con Man, he had even promised Laz of starring in the back then, trending lines of Martial Arts films with Bruce Lee, but after Lazenby dropped the ball from Bond, that Rahilly fraud suddenly disappeared, had Lazenby picked a different agent or perhaps none at all, I think he could've been talked out to continue in the role by the Producers.

    Lazenby was actually a naive man.

    peter wrote: »
    the director is the heart of every film, next to the scriptwriter.

    Yeah, that’s why even with a very weak leading man in the most iconic role of the 60s, OHMSS is still one of the best Bond films. Hunt held that film together despite Lazenby’s many weaknesses.

    Many people are pointing out the weird cuts, the execution of the Blofeld subplot (even though I think Blofeld's plot was an improvement over the book), and some even pointed out the film's slow pacing.

    I love the film as it is though, it's my favorite.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 5,133
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    +Ilse Steppat and Gabrielle Ferzetti. I think those two performances are great as well.

    I have to admit I’ve hardened up on Lazenby lately. I thought he was good in the film (though I can also recognize what others might not like about him - he really struggles in some of the exposition moments) but my issue with him comes down to conduct really. Dude was an asshole on set and from all accounts seemed like he was the hardest of all the Bonds to work with; and it looks like his decision to walk away would cause him a great deal of turmoil later on in life. He really seemed to regret making that decision and if that 90’s feud with Brosnan is any indication - it turned him quite bitter.

    Can't blame him, his agent convinced him that Bond was over by the 70s, and if that agent happened to be Ronan O Rahilly who owned the then successful Radio Station, Radio Caroline, his false predictions are to be taken seriously back then.

    It's like John Lennon being fooled by Alex 'Magic Alex' Mardas and The Beatles being fooled by Allen Klein.

    Ronan O Rahilly was a charlatan.

    Actually Peter Hunt was quite abrasive to him too, Peter Hunt wanted him to be isolated and be alone so he could be a better Bond, away from his co-stars in the set, not a nice advise from a director especially towards a new Bond, Terrence Young could've handled Lazenby better, as he's more hands on, Peter Hunt was one heck of a diva, actually, he was communicating and giving instructions to the cast through Telephone.

    I doubt any new Bond actor could possibly have a good working relationship with Hunt, if that was his approach.

    I believe OHMSS is one of the best Bond films, but most of the film's fault I blame towards Hunt's directions, the cast are just following him, Maibaum and Raven's screenplay was top notch as it followed the book (and I'm not a fan of the book), while improving on it, the director is the heart of every film, next to the scriptwriter.

    I’m not sure how much that stuff about Hunt is true. Richard Maibaum referred to him as a “monster” of a director in a letter penned to Cubby Broccoli before the hiring of Guy Hamilton for DAF - but that had more to do with the fact that Hunt didn’t bow down to Broccoli and Saltzmen. He actively fought for creative control over the film - even going over their heads to UA to ensure that the runtime would remain as it was. So this idea that Hunt dropped the ball when it came to directing Lazenby doesn’t ring true for me.

    For one thing, Lazenby is a notorious liar - it’s how he got the job to begin with and Charles Helfenstein mentioned coming across an interview with UA’s publicity department before filming began basically referencing his habit of fibbing. Now the only instance where Hunt did isolate Lazenby from everyone was during filming of the final scene because he wanted Lazenby to be agitated and nervous - and fair enough because that’s his best bit of acting in the entire film and a moment that I can’t see any of the other Bond’s pulling off as well as George did.

    But whatever Lazenby thought of Hunt or the others - it doesnt change the fact that he f_ed up that opportunity for himself and pissed a lot of people off with his behavior on set.

    The supporting cast of OHMSS is one of the best casts in the series. It's a shame that Peter Hunt didn't direct Maibaum's original screenplay of DAF. I'd be happy to see that cast in a direct sequel. Including Lazenby. It could have been a unique two-parter for Lazenby and the end of SPECTRE. A missed opportunity, but alas, what happened happened. At least the series continued.

    An interesting video on what could have been.


    mtm wrote: »
    He was probably better than Hamilton, but equally I've watched/tried to get through a couple of his later films in the 70s and found them to be real snoozefests.

    Guy Hamilton was WAY too cynical in his last three Bond movies. Probably three of the most cynical and campy films of the series. The real snoozefest was LALD's boatchase. Richard Maibaum may have had an ego as big of a Bond villain with his solo screenplay work, but with what happened in DAF and LALD, I don't blame him. And I actually like those movies for what they are, with or without him. So, it did all work out in the end. I think that the filmmakers then (and hopefully the future ones, now), have learned the lessons that needed to be learned. Denis Villeneuve and Steven Knight are no Guy Hamilton and Tom Mankiewicz. We should have a bit more humor after Craig's era. But don't take influence from those two. Bond can survive, but it can't repeat it's mistakes that it has throughout history.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited 1:44am Posts: 4,068
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    +Ilse Steppat and Gabrielle Ferzetti. I think those two performances are great as well.

    I have to admit I’ve hardened up on Lazenby lately. I thought he was good in the film (though I can also recognize what others might not like about him - he really struggles in some of the exposition moments) but my issue with him comes down to conduct really. Dude was an asshole on set and from all accounts seemed like he was the hardest of all the Bonds to work with; and it looks like his decision to walk away would cause him a great deal of turmoil later on in life. He really seemed to regret making that decision and if that 90’s feud with Brosnan is any indication - it turned him quite bitter.

    Can't blame him, his agent convinced him that Bond was over by the 70s, and if that agent happened to be Ronan O Rahilly who owned the then successful Radio Station, Radio Caroline, his false predictions are to be taken seriously back then.

    It's like John Lennon being fooled by Alex 'Magic Alex' Mardas and The Beatles being fooled by Allen Klein.

    Ronan O Rahilly was a charlatan.

    Actually Peter Hunt was quite abrasive to him too, Peter Hunt wanted him to be isolated and be alone so he could be a better Bond, away from his co-stars in the set, not a nice advise from a director especially towards a new Bond, Terrence Young could've handled Lazenby better, as he's more hands on, Peter Hunt was one heck of a diva, actually, he was communicating and giving instructions to the cast through Telephone.

    I doubt any new Bond actor could possibly have a good working relationship with Hunt, if that was his approach.

    I believe OHMSS is one of the best Bond films, but most of the film's fault I blame towards Hunt's directions, the cast are just following him, Maibaum and Raven's screenplay was top notch as it followed the book (and I'm not a fan of the book), while improving on it, the director is the heart of every film, next to the scriptwriter.

    I’m not sure how much that stuff about Hunt is true. Richard Maibaum referred to him as a “monster” of a director in a letter penned to Cubby Broccoli before the hiring of Guy Hamilton for DAF - but that had more to do with the fact that Hunt didn’t bow down to Broccoli and Saltzmen. He actively fought for creative control over the film - even going over their heads to UA to ensure that the runtime would remain as it was. So this idea that Hunt dropped the ball when it came to directing Lazenby doesn’t ring true for me.

    For one thing, Lazenby is a notorious liar - it’s how he got the job to begin with and Charles Helfenstein mentioned coming across an interview with UA’s publicity department before filming began basically referencing his habit of fibbing. Now the only instance where Hunt did isolate Lazenby from everyone was during filming of the final scene because he wanted Lazenby to be agitated and nervous - and fair enough because that’s his best bit of acting in the entire film and a moment that I can’t see any of the other Bond’s pulling off as well as George did.

    But whatever Lazenby thought of Hunt or the others - it doesnt change the fact that he f_ed up that opportunity for himself and pissed a lot of people off with his behavior on set.

    The supporting cast of OHMSS is one of the best casts in the series. It's a shame that Peter Hunt didn't direct Maibaum's original screenplay of DAF. I'd be happy to see that cast in a direct sequel. Including Lazenby. It could have been a unique two-parter for Lazenby and the end of SPECTRE. A missed opportunity, but alas, what happened happened. At least the series continued.

    An interesting video on what could have been.



    I agree to this, @MaxCasino Lazenby should've really starred in DAF as a revenge sequel, had it not for that fraud Ronan O Rahilly, he's the worst person to be ever connected in the Bond Franchise, I hate that man, when everyone back then was fooling Lazenby (he's really that naive), he's the worst to cut off Lazenby's promising career.

    He should've really starred in this film, a revenge sequel, although I prefer him to be with Terrence Young this time.
  • Posts: 15,967
    007HallY wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot going on behind Lazenby's eyes. Which is fine for a hook-up, but to fall in love with?...

    I say this as someone who loves OHMSS, 😂. The gravitas of the film starts and stops with a terrific novel, script, vision of Hunt, and two actors: Rigg and to a lesser extent, Savalas.

    +Ilse Steppat and Gabrielle Ferzetti. I think those two performances are great as well.

    Oddly I’d argue it’s some of Bernard Lee and Lois Maxwell’s best performances in Bond too.

    It’s a frustrating thing with OHMSS - it’s lead doesn’t do it justice even if he has his moments. I love it by the way, and can also acknowledge it has flaws on a creative/filmmaker level (Nolan and Soderbergh be dammed - I don’t believe this is the best Bond film by any measure). Great film though.

    My controversial opinion about Moneypenny in OHMSS: the movie gave us the greatest Moneypenny moments. In a way, the character never truly recovered from it.
  • Posts: 2,298
    mtm wrote: »
    He was probably better than Hamilton, but equally I've watched/tried to get through a couple of his later films in the 70s and found them to be real snoozefests.

    Wait until dark is a classic.
    I like some Bronson movies like Red Sun or Cold Sweat.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,821
    mtm wrote: »
    He was probably better than Hamilton, but equally I've watched/tried to get through a couple of his later films in the 70s and found them to be real snoozefests.

    Wait until dark is a classic.
    I like some Bronson movies like Red Sun or Cold Sweat.

    Wait Until Dark is a great Terence Young film. Bloodline, also starring Audrey and directed by Young, wasn't.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,720
    I'm a huge Lazenby defender and I think OHMSS couldn't have had a better lead. Sure he lacks the charisma of Connery, but doesn't everyone? What OHMSS needed was a softer less self-condifent Bond and even though I think George did have enough screen presence to pull of Bond, he didn't look as much 'in control' as Connery did and I think OHMSS benefits from that. Also, that last scene is one of the best acted scenes in the series.

    On a further controversial note, I love all of those early 70's Hamilton-directed Bond films. Yes, they are silly and overtly comical, but I also find them witty, quirky and full of eccentric characters. Personally I prefer stuff like "tell 'm he's fired" over Tarzan yells, Jaws' oh-noooo-face and an-antenna-in-the-crotch. Ok, sheriff Pepper can be quite crass, I'd admit that :p
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 8:51am Posts: 18,750
    mtm wrote: »
    He was probably better than Hamilton, but equally I've watched/tried to get through a couple of his later films in the 70s and found them to be real snoozefests.

    Wait until dark is a classic.
    I like some Bronson movies like Red Sun or Cold Sweat.

    I think you've confused Terence Young for Guy Hamilton and/or Peter Hunt.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I'm a huge Lazenby defender and I think OHMSS couldn't have had a better lead. Sure he lacks the charisma of Connery, but doesn't everyone? What OHMSS needed was a softer less self-condifent Bond and even though I think George did have enough screen presence to pull of Bond, he didn't look as much 'in control' as Connery did and I think OHMSS benefits from that. Also, that last scene is one of the best acted scenes in the series.

    I see where you're coming from. I've repeated myself too much on this, but put Roger Moore in it and I think you've got gold. His Bond was more human and vulnerable than Connery's, he would have handled the romance and comedy equally well, and I think if he'd starred in that his reputation as Bond would be a lot stronger.
  • Posts: 2,298
    Ah, yes, I thought you were talking about Young. It would have made sense to bring him back for DAF instead of Hamilton.
  • edited 9:25am Posts: 5,711
    A director can’t make an actor give a good performance that’s beyond their ability. They can play to their strengths or downplay their weaknesses, but no one was going to turn Lazenby into Connery. Hunt most likely got the best performance possible out of him because that’s what Lazenby was capable of.

    As for the revenge driven, Lazenby led DAF we never got, it would have been interesting. But I maintain there’s a very good chance Bond wouldn’t have survived a Lazenby era, or such a film.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited 9:47am Posts: 4,068
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I'm a huge Lazenby defender and I think OHMSS couldn't have had a better lead. Sure he lacks the charisma of Connery, but doesn't everyone? What OHMSS needed was a softer less self-condifent Bond and even though I think George did have enough screen presence to pull of Bond, he didn't look as much 'in control' as Connery did and I think OHMSS benefits from that. Also, that last scene is one of the best acted scenes in the series.

    I agree, no one could do it better than Laz, he fits well in the film.

    And really he looked the part, could handle the essential aspects of the character, and I think he had the Masculine boyish charm like the Bond of the books, and was an actual fighter (he's great in martial arts), as for romance, that's the best I could expect from a Bond film, and Lazenby delivered the romance in the most Bondian way possible.

    The Bond character, probably another controversial opinion of mine, doesn't require much, actually, its not that I have lower standards, heck no, but as far as cinematic Bond goes, and speaking on behalf of the casual audiences, the cinematic Bond is not that much of a demanding role (cinematic Bond is different from the books, hence why I emphasized that word 'Cinematic'), the cinematic Bond doesn't require much, as long as you look the role, can handle the essential aspects of the character, has that masculine charm, believable in fight scenes, and just be Bond, you're in, maybe it's us in fandom (us, fans in general) that we tend to be very nitpicky, this argument could also be applied for the next Bond as well.

    That could be true back then, before the modern films came out, hence, why the people accepted the likes of Barbara Bach, Claudine Auger, Daniela Bianchi, because in their POV, those women carried the roles well.

    But on the other hand, we have misfires from A list actors like Christoph Waltz that couldn't even managed to save that Blofeld character in SPECTRE, Rami Malek (an Oscar winning actor) as Safin in NTTD, or Denise Richards as Dr. Christmas Jones despite that she had acting experience or Halle Berry (another Oscar winner) as Jinx in DAD.

    It's on the character and how a person could carry the role.



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