Would you rather "Surrender" OR "Nothing Good about Goodbye" be the theme song?

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Comments

  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited July 16 Posts: 690
    007HallY wrote: »
    Maybe this is a controversial opinion on my part - I think both are, in my honest opinion, forgettable and generically 'Bondian' sounding songs that don't do it for me. They could play over a Bond parody or knock off and I'd believe they were made for that purpose. I genuinely think it's for the best neither of those songs were the main title tracks. I rate both TND and AWTD above either of those songs. Honestly, I can't for the life of me see (or rather hear) how they're an improvement.

    I guess if I had to pick, Surrender is more fitting of TND, but it's not an improvement over Crow's song.

    I agree... that is controvercial!

    I love Sheryl Crow's music, but her contribution is ponderous, clunky and utterly forgettable (IMO). The only good thing I can say about it, is that it's better than Madonna's putrid attempt in DAD.

    On the other hand AWTD is more catchy than NGAG to my ears and full of tawdry drama, so I can understand why it could be chosen over the more restrained Bassey number (restrained by Bassey standards anyway)

    As with "Octopussy" no-one was brave enough to face up to the challenge of working the phrase "Quantum of Solace" into the lyrics...

  • edited July 16 Posts: 5,601
    Seve wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Maybe this is a controversial opinion on my part - I think both are, in my honest opinion, forgettable and generically 'Bondian' sounding songs that don't do it for me. They could play over a Bond parody or knock off and I'd believe they were made for that purpose. I genuinely think it's for the best neither of those songs were the main title tracks. I rate both TND and AWTD above either of those songs. Honestly, I can't for the life of me see (or rather hear) how they're an improvement.

    I guess if I had to pick, Surrender is more fitting of TND, but it's not an improvement over Crow's song.

    I agree... that is controvercial!

    I love Sheryl Crow's music, but her contribution is ponderous, clunky and utterly forgettable (IMO). The only good thing I can say about it, is that it's better than Madonna's putrid attempt in DAD.

    On the other hand AWTD is more catchy than NGAG to my ears and full of tawdry drama, so I can understand why it could be chosen over the more restrained Bassey number (restrained by Bassey standards anyway)

    As with "Octopussy" no-one was brave enough to face up to the challenge of working the phrase "Quantum of Solace" into the lyrics...


    I can definitely understand why both main songs were picked over these ones. I think ultimately both feel 'bigger' and more appropriate for the opening of a movie. I really don't think either Surrender or Nothing Good About Goodbye are ultimately very good songs though.

    I'll also say this - Crow's Tomorrow Never Dies isn't that far off of Adele's Skyfall in my opinion. It's a very atmospheric and lyrically interesting song (and honestly, musically, more creative than Surrender). And for all its flaws AWTD gives QOS that Bondian rock song they wanted. NGAG would have been all wrong.

    Has anyone ever seen George Lazenby's contribution to the Hitchcock Half Hour reboot in the 80s? Where he played a sort of version of James Bond and even got a knock off Shirley Bassey esque theme song?



    Honestly, that theme song at 0:35 is basically half a step away from both Surrender and Nothing Good About Goodbye for me. I genuinely can't unhear it - the strange cliched wordiness and underwhelming chorus (and generic Bondian chords that seem like they've been copy pasted from other themes).
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,331
    I never heard about No Good About Goodbye, and more importantly never heard the song. I find the following statement right on mi6-hq.com: https://mi6-hq.com/news/index.php?itemid=8079. So it was apparently never actually considered as a theme, and I can't even comment on it. That being said, it would probably have been better than ATTD (though I don't consider that the total nadir of the franchise, either). Anyway, on the other hand, I think that Surrender, originally titled Tomorrow Never Dies, is one of the best songs in the entire franchise (right up there with John Barry's GF and YOLT), and while I don't "hate" Sheryl Crow's dirge (it's probably in the middle third of the themes), k.d. lang's song should have been kept as the movie theme.
  • Posts: 6,941
    I adore Surrender. That being said, I do like the three songs mentioned. But Surrender just sends shivers down my spine. Driving to it is bliss.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 16 Posts: 18,552
    007HallY wrote: »
    Maybe this is a controversial opinion on my part - I think both are, in my honest opinion, forgettable and generically 'Bondian' sounding songs that don't do it for me. They could play over a Bond parody or knock off and I'd believe they were made for that purpose. I genuinely think it's for the best neither of those songs were the main title tracks. I rate both TND and AWTD above either of those songs. Honestly, I can't for the life of me see (or rather hear) how they're an improvement.

    I guess if I had to pick, Surrender is more fitting of TND, but it's not an improvement over Crow's song.

    I agree, Surrender especially is just too much of a pastiche. I enjoy it, but I think the film might actually have been taken less seriously if it had been the main theme, it would have seemed like the Bond series eating itself to some extent. It's like putting the Life of Brian song on the opening of a Bond film! :)
    Crow's song is a more original number.

    I do like the verse melody to Surrender being used in the score of the film though, it works very well there. I think the verse is more successful than the chorus.

    If I had to pick one to be the main theme, I'd probably go for No Good About Goodbye. It's a more interesting song and has grown on me a lot recently. I still prefer AWTD though.

    The one I would absolutely take over the chosen one in a heartbeat is Radiohead's Spectre. I keep meaning to find a fanedit which adds it in actually.

    Seve wrote: »
    On the other hand AWTD is more catchy than NGAG to my ears and full of tawdry drama, so I can understand why it could be chosen over the more restrained Bassey number (restrained by Bassey standards anyway)

    It wasn't chosen over NGAG, NGAG wasn't written until after the movie.
  • Surrender is alright and enjoyable (and I like the idea of writing from the villain's perspective), but the Crow effort isn't shabby. Probably my only complaint with it would be Crow's voice at times, but the rest is fine.

    AWTD is awful, perhaps only Madonna's effort was worse. The London Music Works/Prague Philharmonic editions of both make them sound quite a bit better, but that doesn't change the fact that the vocals of AWTD make it a weird.

    No Good about Goodbye is far better than AWTD, and probably better than at least two of Bassey's Bond efforts. And also, I feel would help Quantum of Solace distinguish itself a bit more from being a "Casino Royale II" with general audiences. Of course, this being in the main titles may impact the decision for Skyfall, which is a much better song in turn...

    Both are used excellently in the films, but I think I'll go for No Good About Goodbye. If "I Will Return" fully existed, I'd probably choose that however.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 690
    mtm wrote: »
    Seve wrote: »
    On the other hand AWTD is more catchy than NGAG to my ears and full of tawdry drama, so I can understand why it could be chosen over the more restrained Bassey number (restrained by Bassey standards anyway)

    It wasn't chosen over NGAG, NGAG wasn't written until after the movie.

    I said "could" not "was"

    In another timeline / continuity / multiverse... (perhaps the same one where Craig-Bond didn't die in NTTD?)

  • mattjoesmattjoes Joe Don baker
    Posts: 7,205
    This is interesting, and can be looked at from multiple perspectives. Among others, thedove already discussed the perspective of the artists' respective popularity. Here are my own thoughts.

    In the case of TND, just hearing what's already there in the film score, and thinking in terms of musical cohesion, since Surrender is extensively quoted and TND the song isn't quoted at all, it would've been better for Surrender to take its place as the title song (though it must still be said that, as it is, the film benefits from having a quieter title song after the balls-to-the-wall pre-title sequence). From a point of view of the feel of each song, both seem to capture different aspects of the film and its story. Surrender is about the villain's plan and its bombastic style reflects the movie's classic vibe (TND coming after GE is to some degree similar to Sp coming after Sf) and sense of larger-than-life spectacle. TND the song is more introspective and appears to deal with the heartbreak and loss of Bond and Paris' relationship. I can see either song working just as well as the title song in its own way. From a point of view of musical preference, I love both songs and only give a slight edge to Surrender.

    In the case of QoS, once again, just hearing what's already there in the film score, and thinking in terms of musical cohesion, both songs could plausibly have been the title song, since both are quoted in the score, though as it is, NGAB is heard more, and in my mind, more distinctively, so it would've been preferrable for it to be the title song (not possible since it didn't exist until later). From a point of view of the feel of each song, I feel NGAB beats AWTD by a large margin. QoS is a high energy film, a speeding bullet wheezing by, but that energy is fundamentally melancholic. AWTD doesn't really capture that. It is a continuation of the style of YKMN, which isn't something to be rejected outright (this is, as I said, an energetic picture), but crucially, I think the song should've had an element of sorrow in it, which I feel it only barely has. NGAB has that quality in spades. From a point of view of musical preference, I much prefer NGAB to AWTD. NGAB is to me a great song. AWTD is good but the vocals, which I find annoying in places, let it down. If it weren't for that, it would still be under NGAB, but much closer.

    I don't really care about changing things in these movies, they are what they are, but if I had to make a change, I'd have NGAB as the title song of QoS.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited 4:50am Posts: 2,775
    I love No Good About Goodbye, but Surrender for me.
  • Posts: 2,227
    I think they all try too hard to sound like a Bond song but I choose No Good About Goodbye.

  • Posts: 6,941
    mattjoes wrote: »
    This is interesting, and can be looked at from multiple perspectives. Among others, thedove already discussed the perspective of the artists' respective popularity. Here are my own thoughts.

    In the case of TND, just hearing what's already there in the film score, and thinking in terms of musical cohesion, since Surrender is extensively quoted and TND the song isn't quoted at all, it would've been better for Surrender to take its place as the title song (though it must still be said that, as it is, the film benefits from having a quieter title song after the balls-to-the-wall pre-title sequence). From a point of view of the feel of each song, both seem to capture different aspects of the film and its story. Surrender is about the villain's plan and its bombastic style reflects the movie's classic vibe (TND coming after GE is to some degree similar to Sp coming after Sf) and sense of larger-than-life spectacle. TND the song is more introspective and appears to deal with the heartbreak and loss of Bond and Paris' relationship. I can see either song working just as well as the title song in its own way. From a point of view of musical preference, I love both songs and only give a slight edge to Surrender.

    In the case of QoS, once again, just hearing what's already there in the film score, and thinking in terms of musical cohesion, both songs could plausibly have been the title song, since both are quoted in the score, though as it is, NGAB is heard more, and in my mind, more distinctively, so it would've been preferrable for it to be the title song (not possible since it didn't exist until later). From a point of view of the feel of each song, I feel NGAB beats AWTD by a large margin. QoS is a high energy film, a speeding bullet wheezing by, but that energy is fundamentally melancholic. AWTD doesn't really capture that. It is a continuation of the style of YKMN, which isn't something to be rejected outright (this is, as I said, an energetic picture), but crucially, I think the song should've had an element of sorrow in it, which I feel it only barely has. NGAB has that quality in spades. From a point of view of musical preference, I much prefer NGAB to AWTD. NGAB is to me a great song. AWTD is good but the vocals, which I find annoying in places, let it down. If it weren't for that, it would still be under NGAB, but much closer.

    I don't really care about changing things in these movies, they are what they are, but if I had to make a change, I'd have NGAB as the title song of QoS.

    Great post!
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