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EoN sells up - Amazon MGM to produce 007 going forwards (Heyman and Pascal confirmed as producers)

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  • bondywondybondywondy Uk
    edited 10:18am Posts: 508
    It's just a pity Cruise did lie about Top Gun Maverick so I no longer believe him when he's interviewed and he says he does all the stunts. This has become tiresome and narcissistic. But if he does some of it for real, that's impressive. But once you see him flat out lie in that Comicon promotion, there's no reason to think the biplane sequence (which looks great!) is all real or even most of it real. It's impossible to know for sure.

    This is why the MI franchise will never truly rival James Bond. All the amazing stunts in the 1970s/80s Bond films were real. No cgi. All modern action films fake the big scenes to some extent. The big bike leap in MI7 was full of cgi and yet Paramount marketed it as the biggest stunt ever.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 10:23am Posts: 18,016
    bondywondy wrote: »
    It's just a pity Cruise did lie about Top Gun Maverick so I no longer believe him when he's interviewed and he says he does all the stunts. This has become tiresome and narcissistic. But if he does some of it for real, that's impressive. But once you see him flat out lie in that Comicon promotion, there's no reason to think the biplane sequence (which looks great!) is all real or even most of it real. It's impossible to know for sure.

    I mean, gosh, you just have to use your eyes. You don't honestly think the biplane stuff is all fake do you? I'm sure there probably will be some closeups with comped backgrounds, and they may well add in some backgrounds, and maybe the plane has a big crash which is all CG, but there's obviously stuff they're really doing in there. Not to mention so much behind the scenes stuff we've seen from it.
    The train stuff in Dead Reckoning where they have comped in the backgrounds and the actors are in studio doesn't quite fit with the real stuff: you can still tell when they're not really on top of a moving train.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited 10:39am Posts: 5,203
    Again, all stunts in film history have used cinematic ‘tricks’ to some degree. Even if it was back projections or some sort of in camera technique, and certainly even if stunt people/actors were actually doing some of these stunts. The nature of film isn’t that they’re doing these things ‘for real’ but how they’ve simulating these sequences. Very often it’ll come down to a mixture of practical stunts, SFX, and nowadays VFX and CGI.

    But I do agree that Cruise diminishing the efforts of the VFX team isn’t right. It also gives a misleading idea of how action films are made.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,695
    Tom Cruise lie? About what exactly? ;)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,627
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don’t think it’ll matter as we’re a bit away from Bond 26 anyway. Bond has always financially outperformed MI too at the box office, and that was with Tom Cruise scaling large buildings and doing crazy stunts. MI also has quite a soft fanbase at the best of times compared to Bond, and it’s a major reason why the latest underperformed to the extent it did in 2023 with specific competition (there was little excitement or incentive to see it in the cinema. Very much an element of ‘I can catch this in a month or two’. Still not seen it myself!)

    I’m sure the next one will do better than the last. I’m not sure how high its ceiling goes though, even if they’re well regarded. I must admit, I have no interest in paying for a ticket to see this one (MI can be very hit or miss for me. Not a Tom Cruise fan either if I’m honest).

    Worrying about action sequences is a bit cart before horse at the moment: first they need an idea for the next movie, characters, a plot, casting...

    Well an obvious action sequence for Bond 26 is Bond fighting a villain in a London Eye pod or on the London Eye ferris wheel itself.

    960px-London-Eye-2009.JPG

    60.jpg

    The actor doesn't have to be suspended from the actual wheel (!)..... a part of the wheel can be made with precise accuracy and raised twenty/thirty feet off the ground with padding on the ground. The new Bond actor can hang off the imitation wheel and composited into wide shots of the real London Eye. A pod can be made to scale on a sound stage and the London skyline added in post production.

    The London Eye is an ideal location for an action sequence. Maybe the precredit scene. 😉
    The London Eye, originally the Millennium Wheel, is a cantilevered observation wheel on the South Bank of the River Thames in London. It is the world's tallest cantilevered observation wheel, and the most popular paid tourist attraction in the United Kingdom with over three million visitors annually.

    By the way, Cruise lied about no cgi in Top Gun Maverick plane sequences. Cgi planes were used and the vast majority of the train sequence in Dead Reckoning including the scenes inside the train carriage as it tilts were cgi. Cgi was also used in the halo jump in Fallout. The promo videos of Cruise skydiving were real. That's not what was used in the final edit.

    Cgi train in Dead Reckoning.



    Never believe everything you see in action films. A huge amount is enhanced in post production.





    I could see them channeling The Third Man. Could make for a tense sequence.
  • bondywondybondywondy Uk
    edited 3:19pm Posts: 508
    mtm wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »

    MI 7 used many cgi effect shots (despite the usual Cruise does it all for real shtick) so there is a very high probability MI 8 has used just as many cgi shots and that may or will include the biplane sequence which is marketed as all real. And Tom Cruise unequivocally lied when he said in promotion for Top Gun Maverick that the planes were all real. The film has thousands of cgi effect shots.

    Yes, he did; I brought that up upthread. But that doesn't mean that there aren't real stunts in the films, or 'the vast majority' of it is CG. A lot of it is enhanced with CG backgrounds etc. but that's not the same thing.
    Even in Maverick it's clear there's an awful lot of stuff being done as close to real as possible, and the actors are clearly actually in real planes in a lot of shots. It looks great.
    bondywondy wrote: »
    It's possible the opening stunt in Rogue Nation was fake.

    I mean, it's not. The slight problem with that shot is that it doesn't look massively different to a studio shot, it's true, and does look like a locked-off shot, that is until the plane banks and the sunlight hits him and then that really confirms it.


    Well you can't prove it's completely real. Lighting, colour grading, removal of objects, adding objects all possible in post production. Cruise could be strapped to a real or even fake plane side and a huge fan was blowing on him! Then composite the scene onto the footage of the real plane in the sky.

    I've no evidence to prove it's fake. I'm suggesting a way it can be faked, that's all. The fact is Cruise was found out to be lying about TG 2 because his marketing gimmick is "Cruise does it all for real." If it turns out he doesn't, that damages his reputation.

    And as mentioned by 007HallY, Cruise saying TG 2 was "all real" is disrespectful to the hundreds of cgi animators that spent months or longer working in post to make it look all real.

    Ludovico
    I could see them channeling The Third Man. Could make for a tense sequence.

    Yes, I think it's worth Amazon considering the London Eye for Bond 26 or a future Bond film. Be good publicity for the wheel too. Maybe it could be known as 'The Bond Wheel'.
    ;))
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,016
    bondywondy wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »

    MI 7 used many cgi effect shots (despite the usual Cruise does it all for real shtick) so there is a very high probability MI 8 has used just as many cgi shots and that may or will include the biplane sequence which is marketed as all real. And Tom Cruise unequivocally lied when he said in promotion for Top Gun Maverick that the planes were all real. The film has thousands of cgi effect shots.

    Yes, he did; I brought that up upthread. But that doesn't mean that there aren't real stunts in the films, or 'the vast majority' of it is CG. A lot of it is enhanced with CG backgrounds etc. but that's not the same thing.
    Even in Maverick it's clear there's an awful lot of stuff being done as close to real as possible, and the actors are clearly actually in real planes in a lot of shots. It looks great.
    bondywondy wrote: »
    It's possible the opening stunt in Rogue Nation was fake.

    I mean, it's not. The slight problem with that shot is that it doesn't look massively different to a studio shot, it's true, and does look like a locked-off shot, that is until the plane banks and the sunlight hits him and then that really confirms it.


    Well you can't prove it's completely real. Lighting, colour grading, removal of objects, adding objects all possible in post production. Cruise could be strapped to a real or even fake plane side and a huge fan was blowing on him! Then composite the scene onto the footage of the real plane in the sky.

    I’m sure they are enhancing it, for one thing we know his safety ropes have been brushed out, I don’t think anyone minds that.
    But he is doing it for real, it’s just a fact.
    bondywondy wrote: »

    And as mentioned by 007HallY, Cruise saying TG 2 was "all real" is disrespectful to the hundreds of cgi animators that spent months or longer working in post to make it look all real.

    Yep, again that’s something I said only a few posts back, I’m not disagreeing with that :)
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited 4:47pm Posts: 5,203
    bondywondy wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »

    MI 7 used many cgi effect shots (despite the usual Cruise does it all for real shtick) so there is a very high probability MI 8 has used just as many cgi shots and that may or will include the biplane sequence which is marketed as all real. And Tom Cruise unequivocally lied when he said in promotion for Top Gun Maverick that the planes were all real. The film has thousands of cgi effect shots.

    Yes, he did; I brought that up upthread. But that doesn't mean that there aren't real stunts in the films, or 'the vast majority' of it is CG. A lot of it is enhanced with CG backgrounds etc. but that's not the same thing.
    Even in Maverick it's clear there's an awful lot of stuff being done as close to real as possible, and the actors are clearly actually in real planes in a lot of shots. It looks great.
    bondywondy wrote: »
    It's possible the opening stunt in Rogue Nation was fake.

    I mean, it's not. The slight problem with that shot is that it doesn't look massively different to a studio shot, it's true, and does look like a locked-off shot, that is until the plane banks and the sunlight hits him and then that really confirms it.


    Well you can't prove it's completely real. Lighting, colour grading, removal of objects, adding objects all possible in post production. Cruise could be strapped to a real or even fake plane side and a huge fan was blowing on him! Then composite the scene onto the footage of the real plane in the sky.

    I've no evidence to prove it's fake. I'm suggesting a way it can be faked, that's all. The fact is Cruise was found out to be lying about TG 2 because his marketing gimmick is "Cruise does it all for real." If it turns out he doesn't, that damages his reputation.

    And as mentioned by 007HallY, Cruise saying TG 2 was "all real" is disrespectful to the hundreds of cgi animators that spent months or longer working in post to make it look all real.

    Ludovico
    I could see them channeling The Third Man. Could make for a tense sequence.

    Yes, I think it's worth Amazon considering the London Eye for Bond 26 or a future Bond film. Be good publicity for the wheel too. Maybe it could be known as 'The Bond Wheel'.
    ;))

    I would also say that’s it’s also no disrespect to the stunt coordinators, stunt people, ADs etc to acknowledge that VFX was used to create those finished sequences.

    As EON did I hope Amazon acknowledge that VFX side.
  • bondywondybondywondy Uk
    edited 8:15pm Posts: 508
    mtm wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »

    MI 7 used many cgi effect shots (despite the usual Cruise does it all for real shtick) so there is a very high probability MI 8 has used just as many cgi shots and that may or will include the biplane sequence which is marketed as all real. And Tom Cruise unequivocally lied when he said in promotion for Top Gun Maverick that the planes were all real. The film has thousands of cgi effect shots.

    Yes, he did; I brought that up upthread. But that doesn't mean that there aren't real stunts in the films, or 'the vast majority' of it is CG. A lot of it is enhanced with CG backgrounds etc. but that's not the same thing.
    Even in Maverick it's clear there's an awful lot of stuff being done as close to real as possible, and the actors are clearly actually in real planes in a lot of shots. It looks great.
    bondywondy wrote: »
    It's possible the opening stunt in Rogue Nation was fake.

    I mean, it's not. The slight problem with that shot is that it doesn't look massively different to a studio shot, it's true, and does look like a locked-off shot, that is until the plane banks and the sunlight hits him and then that really confirms it.


    Well you can't prove it's completely real. Lighting, colour grading, removal of objects, adding objects all possible in post production. Cruise could be strapped to a real or even fake plane side and a huge fan was blowing on him! Then composite the scene onto the footage of the real plane in the sky.

    I’m sure they are enhancing it, for one thing we know his safety ropes have been brushed out, I don’t think anyone minds that.
    But he is doing it for real, it’s just a fact.
    bondywondy wrote: »

    And as mentioned by 007HallY, Cruise saying TG 2 was "all real" is disrespectful to the hundreds of cgi animators that spent months or longer working in post to make it look all real.

    Yep, again that’s something I said only a few posts back, I’m not disagreeing with that :)
    I think most or all Bond fans would like to see a big action scene with the new Bond actor clearly shown - in Bond 26. Real or cgi, it's important Bond 26 has one big stunt to compete with other action franchises. And Bond 26 is arguably Bond 1 (!) so if we look at it as the start of a new Bond franchise it makes sense to market this new era with a big action scene. Goldeneye had the bungee jump. Casino Royale had the parkour/crane chase. Amazon would be wise to copy that formula. 😉
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited 9:05pm Posts: 8,271
    While I'd certainly agree that it is disrespectful to say that "everything is completely real" and there was "no CGI", that quote from Cruise about the flying being real is not wrong in the slightest. Real planes were flown and real planes did almost all of the manouevres seen in Top Gun: Maverick. They just replaced those planes with their military-level counterparts. Because naturally, flying those incredibly expensive machines for the sake of a film (even if that film is Top Gun) was simply not a thing that would ever happen.

    He's neither lying nor telling the full truth, but effectively playing the marketing game. And I don't think anyone can claim that it didn't work out well for the film.

    If Bond 26 takes a similar approach, I'll be really happy.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,016
    I think he said something like “everything you see is real” which was a bit disingenuous.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,271
    Sorry, I was going off the quote Bondywondy provided which talked about the flying being real. If there's more than that, then fair enough.
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