SKYFALL: Is this the best Bond film?

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Comments

  • edited 10:09am Posts: 5,125
    To be fair I can definitely understand the criticism TB (and YOLT) drag. I don’t know what it is, but there’s that point around the second act in both those movies where things just start to feel a bit lacklustre. Like all the tension’s gone or not there… TB has noticeable issues with its final act anyway (the sped up fight, that weird character who shows up and rescues Domino for some reason etc). YOLT’s finale is pretty good though.

    I certainly wouldn’t say SP and NTTD are boring. Frustrating perhaps at times, but I find them much more gripping to watch for all their flaws.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 242
    Dr No's ending is not the best, but it certainly builds nicely. It, FRWL and GF seem lifetimes apart but only separated by two years.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,926
    Yeah being long isn't the same as being boring.

    I must admit I don't have that issue with YOLT; not that I watch it much of course as I've seen it(!), but although it's not top tier Bond there's enough in there to keep me interested. Unlike TB it does at least seem to be a sequel to GF in spirit.
  • Recently I’ve actually found Thunderball superior to Goldfinger. The first act is a bit shaky at points, but after that I think the script is sharper and it nicely balances the espionage elements of Connery’s first two entries with the big pop spectacle to come. Young is also just a much better director than Hamilton imo, certainly visually anyway and Thunderball is really gorgeous to look at.
  • edited 10:55am Posts: 1,900
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah being long isn't the same as being boring.

    I must admit I don't have that issue with YOLT; not that I watch it much of course as I've seen it(!), but although it's not top tier Bond there's enough in there to keep me interested. Unlike TB it does at least seem to be a sequel to GF in spirit.

    In this case, yes.

    NTTD is too long for the story it tells. You can make every scene shorter.


    And SPECTRE... well. Why doesn't it end in Blofeld's lair?

    Both movies drag a lot.

  • edited 11:07am Posts: 5,125
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah being long isn't the same as being boring.

    I must admit I don't have that issue with YOLT; not that I watch it much of course as I've seen it(!), but although it's not top tier Bond there's enough in there to keep me interested. Unlike TB it does at least seem to be a sequel to GF in spirit.

    It's the wedding and all the stuff when they're hiking to the volcano that bores me a bit. This might be subjective too but the film as a whole has an odd feel to it where it seems like the script has been written to accommodate set/stunt pieces, as if it's stopping and starting almost (obviously Bond and many other films will do that by their nature, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. But with YOLT there's no tangible reason for, say, Helga to pretend to fall for Bond only to trap him in the plane a scene later. It doesn't feel quite as organic compared to the previous Bond films, and for me it can get a bit tiresome).
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah being long isn't the same as being boring.

    I must admit I don't have that issue with YOLT; not that I watch it much of course as I've seen it(!), but although it's not top tier Bond there's enough in there to keep me interested. Unlike TB it does at least seem to be a sequel to GF in spirit.

    In this case, yes.

    NTTD is too long for the story it tells. You can make every scene shorter.


    And SPECTRE... well. Why doesn't it end in Blofeld's lair?

    Both movies drag a lot.

    We're all different, but I'd personally say being boring isn't a sin of SP or NTTD, even if being long might be (although even that's quite debatable - actually I think NTTD is well paced even if it's overloaded with story).

    I'm not sure if I'd describe any other Bond movies as 'boring' aside from those parts of TB and YOLT.
    Recently I’ve actually found Thunderball superior to Goldfinger. The first act is a bit shaky at points, but after that I think the script is sharper and it nicely balances the espionage elements of Connery’s first two entries with the big pop spectacle to come. Young is also just a much better director than Hamilton imo, certainly visually anyway and Thunderball is really gorgeous to look at.

    Oh yeah, Young was a superior director to Hamilton (though GF is pretty great). I do wonder if he was the right director for TB though. A lot of his flaws really do come to the forefront of that film (Peter Hunt always said he had a bad habit of calling cut way too early and it would force him to edit scenes in certain ways. You really see it during that last fight in TB).
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 242
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah being long isn't the same as being boring.

    I must admit I don't have that issue with YOLT; not that I watch it much of course as I've seen it(!), but although it's not top tier Bond there's enough in there to keep me interested. Unlike TB it does at least seem to be a sequel to GF in spirit.

    In this case, yes.

    NTTD is too long for the story it tells. You can make every scene shorter.


    And SPECTRE... well. Why doesn't it end in Blofeld's lair?

    Both movies drag a lot.

    I agree. NTTD does really drag as it has too many characters.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 11:19am Posts: 17,926
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah being long isn't the same as being boring.

    I must admit I don't have that issue with YOLT; not that I watch it much of course as I've seen it(!), but although it's not top tier Bond there's enough in there to keep me interested. Unlike TB it does at least seem to be a sequel to GF in spirit.

    It's the wedding and all the stuff when they're hiking to the volcano that bores me a bit. This might be subjective too but the film as a whole has an odd feel to it where it seems like the script has been written to accommodate set/stunt pieces, as if it's stopping and starting almost (obviously Bond and many other films will do that by their nature, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. But with YOLT there's no tangible reason for, say, Helga to pretend to fall for Bond only to trap him in the plane a scene later. It doesn't feel quite as organic compared to the previous Bond films, and for me it can get a bit tiresome).

    Oh yeah, I totally agree that it's very episodic and choppy, it does feel like lots of things just chucked together. I still like it regardless as it's colourful and varied and there's always something different coming up next(!) but it's not one of the best.
    Recently I’ve actually found Thunderball superior to Goldfinger. The first act is a bit shaky at points, but after that I think the script is sharper and it nicely balances the espionage elements of Connery’s first two entries with the big pop spectacle to come. Young is also just a much better director than Hamilton imo, certainly visually anyway and Thunderball is really gorgeous to look at.

    Interesting, I totally agree about the directors at least; I think Hamilton especially shows that into his 70s efforts.
  • edited 11:27am Posts: 5,125
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah being long isn't the same as being boring.

    I must admit I don't have that issue with YOLT; not that I watch it much of course as I've seen it(!), but although it's not top tier Bond there's enough in there to keep me interested. Unlike TB it does at least seem to be a sequel to GF in spirit.

    It's the wedding and all the stuff when they're hiking to the volcano that bores me a bit. This might be subjective too but the film as a whole has an odd feel to it where it seems like the script has been written to accommodate set/stunt pieces, as if it's stopping and starting almost (obviously Bond and many other films will do that by their nature, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. But with YOLT there's no tangible reason for, say, Helga to pretend to fall for Bond only to trap him in the plane a scene later. It doesn't feel quite as organic compared to the previous Bond films, and for me it can get a bit tiresome).

    Oh yeah, I totally agree that it's very episodic and choppy, it does feel like lots of things just chucked together. I still like it regardless as it's colourful and varied and there's always something different coming up next(!) but it's not one of the best.

    I'd agree with that. I think the advantage it has over TB is that it is quite technically accomplished and stylistically has a flair to it. I'd say if we're comparing directors Young was better than Hamilton (the latter's 70s Bond films really have some poor direction and filmmaking that gets into the realm of outright mistake) but Gilbert really stands out. His Bond films might not be for everyone but there was a sense he knew what he was doing.
  • edited 11:41am Posts: 1,900
    I never liked YOLT's "invisible cameras". It looks like something out of a Matt Helm movie.

    Connery wanted Young to direct YOLT. Perhaps the film would have had more edge.
  • edited 11:57am Posts: 5,125
    Do you mean the stuff where Blofeld's watching the space ships with a third person camera? And I guess when Bond's watching the helicopter move the car on the screen... Meh, to each their own but I think that's a pretty typical 'quirk in Bond films you only think about later'.

    I think Young was better with tighter, more small scale Bond thrillers. Gilbert was the director who really brought that flair to the bigger Bond films and set pieces (even GF isn't quite as big or bombastic compared to later Bond films).

    Bringing this back to SF, I find Gilbert similar to Mendes in many ways. Both were accomplished filmmakers who had prior careers with more drama based films (albeit in many different genres), and both directors went on to make Bond movies that really ran with that heightened, unashamedly Bondian flair and humour (SF certainly has plenty of those moments). Both SF and TSWLM even have that clear undercurrent of character drama to them which I find makes them stand out.

    (I'm of course just waiting for the inevitable response to this post about how Mendes was in fact not a good Bond director at all and everything I said is wrong, with the expectation that this will in some way tarnish SF's reputation as a film, haha).
  • edited 12:03pm Posts: 1,900


    Yeah, I hate this... :(
  • edited 12:12pm Posts: 5,125
    Fair enough. I do feel it's one of those moments in the film that feels too episodic and a bit lacking in tension, but I don't mind the third person camera stuff. Looks great though and it's unique.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,926
    It's a terrific memorable idea, I love it.
    007HallY wrote: »
    (I'm of course just waiting for the inevitable response to this post about how Mendes was in fact not a good Bond director at all and everything I said is wrong, with the expectation that this will in some way tarnish SF's reputation as a film, haha).

    Yep, it's getting a bit easy to second guess now, isn't it? :D
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 242
    mtm wrote: »
    It's a terrific memorable idea, I love it.
    007HallY wrote: »
    (I'm of course just waiting for the inevitable response to this post about how Mendes was in fact not a good Bond director at all and everything I said is wrong, with the expectation that this will in some way tarnish SF's reputation as a film, haha).

    Yep, it's getting a bit easy to second guess now, isn't it? :D

    Not really sure what a 'Bond director' is, really. Mendes did give the series a bit of gravitas, that's for sure. You can imagine the actors responding well to his instruction or he would batter them with a blunt object.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    edited 12:33pm Posts: 242


    Yeah, I hate this... :(

    I could imagine Tiger deploying a second chopper just so he too could watch it. He lives in an underground tram by himself. Needs all the fun he can get.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,926
    mtm wrote: »
    It's a terrific memorable idea, I love it.
    007HallY wrote: »
    (I'm of course just waiting for the inevitable response to this post about how Mendes was in fact not a good Bond director at all and everything I said is wrong, with the expectation that this will in some way tarnish SF's reputation as a film, haha).

    Yep, it's getting a bit easy to second guess now, isn't it? :D

    Not really sure what a 'Bond director' is, really. Mendes did give the series a bit of gravitas, that's for sure. You can imagine the actors responding well to his instruction or he would batter them with a blunt object.

    Nope, not really, no idea what you mean.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 242
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It's a terrific memorable idea, I love it.
    007HallY wrote: »
    (I'm of course just waiting for the inevitable response to this post about how Mendes was in fact not a good Bond director at all and everything I said is wrong, with the expectation that this will in some way tarnish SF's reputation as a film, haha).

    Yep, it's getting a bit easy to second guess now, isn't it? :D

    Not really sure what a 'Bond director' is, really. Mendes did give the series a bit of gravitas, that's for sure. You can imagine the actors responding well to his instruction or he would batter them with a blunt object.

    Nope, not really, no idea what you mean.

    You rarely do, chief!
  • Posts: 5,125
    mtm wrote: »
    It's a terrific memorable idea, I love it.
    007HallY wrote: »
    (I'm of course just waiting for the inevitable response to this post about how Mendes was in fact not a good Bond director at all and everything I said is wrong, with the expectation that this will in some way tarnish SF's reputation as a film, haha).

    Yep, it's getting a bit easy to second guess now, isn't it? :D

    Not really sure what a 'Bond director' is, really. Mendes did give the series a bit of gravitas, that's for sure. You can imagine the actors responding well to his instruction or he would batter them with a blunt object.

    A Bond director is a director... who has directed a James Bond film...
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,852
    A good Bond director balances action with drama. Knows who to listen to, and when to take over. That's about it probably. Otherwise they're just a movie director. For awhile they had to be of the Empire, but that's been extinguished.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 12:48pm Posts: 17,926
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It's a terrific memorable idea, I love it.
    007HallY wrote: »
    (I'm of course just waiting for the inevitable response to this post about how Mendes was in fact not a good Bond director at all and everything I said is wrong, with the expectation that this will in some way tarnish SF's reputation as a film, haha).

    Yep, it's getting a bit easy to second guess now, isn't it? :D

    Not really sure what a 'Bond director' is, really. Mendes did give the series a bit of gravitas, that's for sure. You can imagine the actors responding well to his instruction or he would batter them with a blunt object.

    Nope, not really, no idea what you mean.

    You rarely do, chief!

    Says the guy who doesn't understand what a Bond director is :D Feel free to explain why you think that YouGov survey you posted says what you said it did then rather than ignoring it. Or this weird Mendes thing, are you saying he's known for battering people?
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 242
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It's a terrific memorable idea, I love it.
    007HallY wrote: »
    (I'm of course just waiting for the inevitable response to this post about how Mendes was in fact not a good Bond director at all and everything I said is wrong, with the expectation that this will in some way tarnish SF's reputation as a film, haha).

    Yep, it's getting a bit easy to second guess now, isn't it? :D

    Not really sure what a 'Bond director' is, really. Mendes did give the series a bit of gravitas, that's for sure. You can imagine the actors responding well to his instruction or he would batter them with a blunt object.

    Nope, not really, no idea what you mean.

    You rarely do, chief!

    Says the guy who doesn't understand what a Bond director is :D Feel free to explain why you think that YouGov survey you posted says what you said it did then rather than ignoring it. Or this weird Mendes thing, are you saying he's known for battering people?

    Nope, no idea what you mean.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 242
    LucknFate wrote: »
    A good Bond director balances action with drama.

    Don't forget a bit of fun.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,926
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It's a terrific memorable idea, I love it.
    007HallY wrote: »
    (I'm of course just waiting for the inevitable response to this post about how Mendes was in fact not a good Bond director at all and everything I said is wrong, with the expectation that this will in some way tarnish SF's reputation as a film, haha).

    Yep, it's getting a bit easy to second guess now, isn't it? :D

    Not really sure what a 'Bond director' is, really. Mendes did give the series a bit of gravitas, that's for sure. You can imagine the actors responding well to his instruction or he would batter them with a blunt object.

    Nope, not really, no idea what you mean.

    You rarely do, chief!

    Says the guy who doesn't understand what a Bond director is :D Feel free to explain why you think that YouGov survey you posted says what you said it did then rather than ignoring it. Or this weird Mendes thing, are you saying he's known for battering people?

    Nope, no idea what you mean.

    That's obvious.
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