Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,867
    Heightened reality, a mixture of tongue in cheek humor, and genuine tension and spectacle are not unique to EON. No shortage of films do this. What EON has going for it is they own the Bond elements: gun barrel sequence, the music, the Bond name and characters that are unique to Bond films and no other.

    That's the reason why NSNA fizzled. It wasn't enough to have Connery back, the film lacked some of the elements that make a Bond film a Bond film.

    I won't argue the success of EON over the decades, but perfection, I can't go there. They haven't had the same writers, directors, and support over those years. Some films have been better than others using what we understand as the Bond formula: a certain style of film replete with elements specific to Bond films.

    Not too many films left before create your own Bond becomes a reality. But it's that lack of elements owned by EON that will always set their films apart.

  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 7 Posts: 1,934
    Zekidk wrote: »
    I think "But my martini is still dry" is one of the best one-liners ever. The underwater sequence were great, the villain much better than many EON villains and the extensive fistfight at the clinic is brilliantly played out. But I too have issues with it of course.

    Yeah. I also think it has an idyllic look to it. Great photography and locations. It not being an official Bond film, of course affects it. No gunbarrel. No Bond theme. But somehow, I like the film. It's just easy viewing. I could prepare noodles and still watch it easy. Plus, there's Barbara Carrera's Fatima Blush... maybe the most sultry bad Bond babe. Lani Hall's song too is good.
  • Posts: 3,890
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Heightened reality, a mixture of tongue in cheek humor, and genuine tension and spectacle are not unique to EON. No shortage of films do this. What EON has going for it is they own the Bond elements: gun barrel sequence, the music, the Bond name and characters that are unique to Bond films and no other.

    That's the reason why NSNA fizzled. It wasn't enough to have Connery back, the film lacked some of the elements that make a Bond film a Bond film.

    I won't argue the success of EON over the decades, but perfection, I can't go there. They haven't had the same writers, directors, and support over those years. Some films have been better than others using what we understand as the Bond formula: a certain style of film replete with elements specific to Bond films.

    Not too many films left before create your own Bond becomes a reality. But it's that lack of elements owned by EON that will always set their films apart.

    Never said they were perfect. Just that they’d perfected the Bond formula.

    I really don’t think it’s just due to the lack of gun barrel and theme either. It’s part of it but not entirely (I think if you were to tack on those things in a re-edit the film would still suck). Something about NSNA just doesn’t hold for me. It has the broad ideas - a chase here, an opening with Bond beating up goons. What it lacks is EON’s sense of creativity, imagination, style. That’s what I mean.
  • Posts: 1,206
    Yeah, the fight, the sharks scene and the motorbike chase are great.
    It makes a good double feature with Goldfinger.
  • Posts: 3,890
    For me, it’s as if it’s a film is trying to do a rather bad Bond impression rather than quite getting the spirit of the films.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 7 Posts: 1,934
    007HallY wrote: »
    For me, it’s as if it’s a film is trying to do a rather bad Bond impression rather than quite getting the spirit of the films.

    Yeah. It's just a breeze through film. It's not a film to watch intensely. I'm not sure it would have even made that much money without Connery as the lead.

  • Mark my words, if Bond 26 won't be released before late 2027, then it will be the final Bond film by EON Productions.

    Quite a sweeping statement. Based on what evidence?

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,362
    Mark my words, if Bond 26 won't be released before late 2027, then it will be the final Bond film by EON Productions.

    Quite a sweeping statement. Based on what evidence?

    Trust him, he just knows.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,934
    Linkin Park recently announced Emily Armstrong as their new vocalist. I couldn't help but think that that's how Barbara would make a Bond 26 announcement out of nowhere. Maybe we should be looking out for a director's announcement more...before Bond 7.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,785
    Linkin Park recently announced Emily Armstrong as their new vocalist. I couldn't help but think that that's how Barbara would make a Bond 26 announcement out of nowhere. Maybe we should be looking out for a director's announcement more...before Bond 7.

    If there's a script already, I would be waiting for an announcement if P&W would still continue or a new one would be on the talks.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,934
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Linkin Park recently announced Emily Armstrong as their new vocalist. I couldn't help but think that that's how Barbara would make a Bond 26 announcement out of nowhere. Maybe we should be looking out for a director's announcement more...before Bond 7.

    If there's a script already, I would be waiting for an announcement if P&W would still continue or a new one would be on the talks.

    Yeah. Something like that.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited September 7 Posts: 534
    I sincerely hope Purvis and Wade have wrote their last Bond script. They frequently recycle the same ideas and if Eon is feeling malaise it would be wise to start with some fresh blood in the writer's room. Somebody like Steven Knight or Jack Thorne would be good.

  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 7 Posts: 1,934
    I sincerely hope Purvis and Wade have wrote their last Bond script. They frequently recycle the same ideas and if Eon is feeling malaise it would be wise to start with some fresh blood in the writer's room. Somebody like Steven Knight or Jack Thorne would be good.

    But as always, they usually need those two to kickstart a new Bond film. It's very possible Barbara has already told them to come up with ideas for Bond 26.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited September 7 Posts: 534
    They do not need p&w, that's precisely the problem is that thinking. There's plenty of better writers out there if they would give someone else a chance.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 7 Posts: 1,934
    They do not need p&w, that's precisely the problem is that thinking. There's plenty of better writers out there if they would give someone else a chance.

    Yeah, other writers would most likely write Bond 26. But because of P&W's knowledge of Fleming, they always get involved. It's similar to how there are great directors out there...but still, EON don't consider a lot of them suitable for a Bond film.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited September 7 Posts: 534
    Surely there's another decent writer out there who "knows Fleming", they're not the be all and end all. And judging by some of their work, I think that's a flimsy assumption.

    I think the house of Eon has just grown comfortable with them and are reluctant to try someone else.
  • Posts: 1,206
    007HallY wrote: »
    For me, it’s as if it’s a film is trying to do a rather bad Bond impression rather than quite getting the spirit of the films.

    I do think it understands Bond, the massage scene is an example of that.
  • Posts: 1,851
    Regarding NSNA not feeling like an Eon production, I saw it at McClory's house in the Bahamas where he had replaced the score with Barry's Thunderball score and it made a world of difference. Not that it solved all the problems but it sure did help.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 534
    delfloria wrote: »
    Regarding NSNA not feeling like an Eon production, I saw it at McClory's house in the Bahamas where he had replaced the score with Barry's Thunderball score and it made a world of difference. Not that it solved all the problems but it sure did help.

    Wow, that's very cool, you don't mind me asking what was the purpose of him tinkering away with it?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,102
    delfloria wrote: »
    Regarding NSNA not feeling like an Eon production, I saw it at McClory's house in the Bahamas where he had replaced the score with Barry's Thunderball score and it made a world of difference. Not that it solved all the problems but it sure did help.

    I can imagine. Music is a big deal. It can completely alter the "flavours" of a film. But, indeed, I doubt that changing the music alone would do the trick. There are simply too many signature elements of the EON Bonds that NSNA could not use. And yes, those "cosmetics" matter.

    On top of that, the unpolished look of the film, the quality of sound and image, are flaws no EON Bond would ever get away with. If apples and oranges can be compared, I'd say that DN looks better than NSNA. There's an amateurish quality to NSNA that I cannot ignore. It gets close to the EON Bonds, but it never quite gets there.
    Surely there's another decent writer out there who "knows Fleming", they're not the be all and end all. And judging by some of their work, I think that's a flimsy assumption.

    I think the house of Eon has just grown comfortable with them and are reluctant to try someone else.

    P&W are definitely two players I'd replace. I was frankly amazed that anyone would want them back after TWINE. I admit that they have produced solid writing as well, and I will give them credit for that, but the writing department needs new blood, I reckon.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,518
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    Regarding NSNA not feeling like an Eon production, I saw it at McClory's house in the Bahamas where he had replaced the score with Barry's Thunderball score and it made a world of difference. Not that it solved all the problems but it sure did help.

    I can imagine. Music is a big deal. It can completely alter the "flavours" of a film. But, indeed, I doubt that changing the music alone would do the trick. There are simply too many signature elements of the EON Bonds that NSNA could not use. And yes, those "cosmetics" matter.

    On top of that, the unpolished look of the film, the quality of sound and image, are flaws no EON Bond would ever get away with. If apples and oranges can be compared, I'd say that DN looks better than NSNA. There's an amateurish quality to NSNA that I cannot ignore. It gets close to the EON Bonds, but it never quite gets there.
    Surely there's another decent writer out there who "knows Fleming", they're not the be all and end all. And judging by some of their work, I think that's a flimsy assumption.

    I think the house of Eon has just grown comfortable with them and are reluctant to try someone else.

    P&W are definitely two players I'd replace. I was frankly amazed that anyone would want them back after TWINE. I admit that they have produced solid writing as well, and I will give them credit for that, but the writing department needs new blood, I reckon.

    Not trying to turn this thread into a P & W bashing thread, but it seems more and more people are getting tired of them. Sadly, it seems that them leaving the franchise is one of the few things that the Bond fandom generally agrees on. While I don't blame them for all mistakes in the writing department, it does feel that some of their trademarks have outstayed their welcome. If EON honestly brought them back, it would be the equivalent of bringing Guy Hamilton back on TSWLM. Maybe Amazon will tell EON no to them. No one else has hired them for Bond media in the last 25 years, apart from EON. That should be saying something. It's just simply time for Bond to change, in particular with the writing.
  • Think about this for a moment: if Nolan turns out to be the director of Bond 26, then Bond 26 will be very likely released in the summer of 2026. Which is a lot sooner than most would expect right now.
  • Posts: 1,867
    If Nolan started tomorrow, we could have a film by December 2025. Whatever the reason we're not hearing anything, I don't think it has anything to do with so much is going on.
  • Posts: 16,061
    Yeah, the fight, the sharks scene and the motorbike chase are great.
    It makes a good double feature with Goldfinger.

    Couldn't agree more. NSNA is a lot of fun for me.
    007HallY wrote: »
    For me, it’s as if it’s a film is trying to do a rather bad Bond impression rather than quite getting the spirit of the films.

    I do think it understands Bond, the massage scene is an example of that.

    IMO, NSNA captures the classic Bond spirit more than some of the later Craig films. Though I love them all.
  • edited September 8 Posts: 553
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    Regarding NSNA not feeling like an Eon production, I saw it at McClory's house in the Bahamas where he had replaced the score with Barry's Thunderball score and it made a world of difference. Not that it solved all the problems but it sure did help.

    I can imagine. Music is a big deal. It can completely alter the "flavours" of a film. But, indeed, I doubt that changing the music alone would do the trick. There are simply too many signature elements of the EON Bonds that NSNA could not use. And yes, those "cosmetics" matter.

    On top of that, the unpolished look of the film, the quality of sound and image, are flaws no EON Bond would ever get away with. If apples and oranges can be compared, I'd say that DN looks better than NSNA. There's an amateurish quality to NSNA that I cannot ignore. It gets close to the EON Bonds, but it never quite gets there.
    Surely there's another decent writer out there who "knows Fleming", they're not the be all and end all. And judging by some of their work, I think that's a flimsy assumption.

    I think the house of Eon has just grown comfortable with them and are reluctant to try someone else.

    P&W are definitely two players I'd replace. I was frankly amazed that anyone would want them back after TWINE. I admit that they have produced solid writing as well, and I will give them credit for that, but the writing department needs new blood, I reckon.

    Not trying to turn this thread into a P & W bashing thread, but it seems more and more people are getting tired of them. Sadly, it seems that them leaving the franchise is one of the few things that the Bond fandom generally agrees on. While I don't blame them for all mistakes in the writing department, it does feel that some of their trademarks have outstayed their welcome. If EON honestly brought them back, it would be the equivalent of bringing Guy Hamilton back on TSWLM. Maybe Amazon will tell EON no to them. No one else has hired them for Bond media in the last 25 years, apart from EON. That should be saying something. It's just simply time for Bond to change, in particular with the writing.

    The bolded part is just not true, first and foremost because it misunderstands what it means for a screenwriter to be "hired" means. If a screenwriter is only working if something they wrote was produced and released, then there would be a lot of people who make a living writing screenplays who are apparently not working screenwriters. Were they ever contracted over the past two decades to write something that fell through? Were they ever hired to doctor other scripts? We don't know this — well actually we do, given a screenplay they wrote for Nicolas Winding Refn is, more likely than not, in the works again.

    (Also: they wrote a TV show completely independent of EON that aired in 2017)

    edit: Wait, I re-read this. You're saying no one hired them for other Bond media? What does this mean? They oversee everything except a bunch of continuation novels and comic books that would be well beneath their career! That's not relevant at all. It'd be like saying "Why doesn't Lawrence Kasdan write Star Wars novels?"
  • Posts: 1,867
    Why do we like some talented writers more than we like other talented writers?
    Because we do.
    I don't think P&W are untalented hacks. But I'd like to see others take a crack at Bond.

    As far as knowing Bond, they know their Bond, their version, their interpretation. They don't possess a knowledge others can't acquire. Bond has been out of commission for so long now, one could have read all the original Bonds and the continuation novels by now.

  • Posts: 12,433
    P&W are a mixed bag for me. I think they did a lot of good for the franchise, but they also reused too many themes and incorporated too much melodrama. I’m very ready to see new blood across the board for the next era, starting in the writing department.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,934
    I too would want new writers. But I don't want to dismiss P&W, only for them to pop up and get involved. I can do without them, for sure. But still, if they're involved, it won't be that terrible.
  • Posts: 6,705
    I, for one, don't want P&W back in any capacity. But I wouldn't want someone who is ignorant of Fleming's works. I can't believe there's not a single good writer who likes and has read Fleming and could have a good working relationship with Barbara and Michael. In any case, EON, here I am. Come and get me :)
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 8 Posts: 3,129
    Weren't P&W finished after SF but brought back to bail out SP after Logan hit the wall? I do remember the sinking feeling I got when I heard they were back. Clue there, I guess.
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