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Simple. I am more a fan of the Fleming books than I am the movies, so by default I would much rather have an actor to play Bond who matched the literary description, than one who doesn't.
Does that make me the R word now in your eyes? Then screw you, and screw your `warning', because in the words of Craig `does it look like I give a damn!' ;)
I think it's pretty much obvious what is happening:
Racial Superiority Complex.
No, I like Univex's approach better though. Your first paragraph was perfect without what followed. Im keeping an open mind to other fan perspectives. Clearly some of us will be split on this, I'm trying to discuss it without baiting too much anger.
Idiot! Grow up!
Fair enough.
I just don't like being accused of being racist when all I want is for an to play Bond who perfectly matches Fleming's description. You have to be very careful here what kind of language you use in a topic like this, and this goes for all sides (including me).
I don’t think there has been a single actor who perfectly resembles Fleming’s description of Bond, but I understand your reasoning.
My theory as to why some fans may have issues with a potential “Black Bond” is perhaps they personally feel that “race swapping” a character who had predominantly been white for all of his existence is straying too far from the creator’s original vision, and perhaps some feel it would be driven by an “agenda”. They’d much rather see original roles created for POC’s, which I think is a solid argument at the very least. With the case of Bond, none of the actors bear any strong resemblance to Fleming’s character visually, nor share any sort of similar background. We’ve had Scottish Bond, Australian Bond, Welsh Bond, Irish Bond, and Two English Bond’s, both of whom have Blond/Sandy Brown hair.
My stance is they should just find the best person possible. If the candidate happens to be a POC, then so be it.
All the actors who played Bond had certain attributes of the description by Fleming, Dalton and Brosnan being the closest, and yes, I am well aware there are small things which don't exactly tally on the other actors - Connery and Lazenby having dark eyes, or Moore and Craig having lighter hair.
I suggest you just leave this topic alone now. This debate has been kicked around many times before, and always ends up with the mods stepping in to shut it down. It's boring, and an old debate.
If you cannot see the difference between a black or white actor playing the character Fleming wrote about, then I'm happy for you.
Exactly!
Besides, no one on the entire world would see this “colourblind casting” as anything other than an agenda. And one no one really wants. Why would Dirisu want that? Why would anyone? All of my black friends laugh at it and say they’d feel as if the white producers and the cinema industry would be making them a favor they didn’t ask for.
And another thing. Some people keep talking about the best possible candidate and they are the first to dismiss Aidan Turner, for example, and to champion for Dirisu. I find this baffling. What on earth makes Dirisu a suitable candidate? I don’t feel he has any charisma, and nothing, really, nothing says Bond to me when I see him on the telly. And then people say Aidan Turner, who looks like Bond, sounds like Bond, moves like Bond,…, and acts the hell out of any given scene, and drove an entire tv series on his own character for more than three seasons, and has been in Agatha Christie’s adaptations, and has theatre experience, is not suitable. Again, this is incredibly confusing to me.
Sanity prevails.
It's obvious there are a minority on here who are pushing an agenda, and are looking to call out the racism card to anyone who disagrees. It's very sad to see.
Okay, so I'll say again I'm happy with any skin color on Bond.
Give me the attributes and traits of the character I've loved since age 15, from novels and films in a well written story. Skin color? No factor at all.
Sanity prevails, indeed.
A few days ago I was actually going to post that when we actually get news of production ramping up that we we will see a significant reset of proposed candidates; many of the names bandied about over the last decade or so have aged out and many never considered are aging in. Over the next year or two I expect to see a significant crop of previously unmentioned actors.
For me, when it comes to Bond's appearance, I don't think any of the actors matched it fully. And that's a good thing. Most illustrations of the literary Bond are a bit 'meh' and look too much like a budget Hoagey Carmichael or Sherlock Holmes. Rarely can I imagine any AI generated image of 'Fleming's Bond' being the same man of the novels. Even Fleming claimed to have little tangible idea of what his character actually looked like. That's because it's not necessarily about his hair or eye colour in itself. Bond is a handsome man who has those specific, and yet at the same time intangible aspects of darkness to his appearance (a 'cruel' mouth whatever the heck that looks like, blue grey eyes that have a kind of watchfulness/coldness to them, again if that's even something that can actually occur). Broadly it's that 'something' that makes him stand out.
I don't think an actor has to have black hair or blue eyes. There's a very good case that the actor doesn't even have to be white. But there has to be that sense of darkness to them, that hard to put your finger on quality. For me, that's far more important and true to Fleming's character.
Thing is, even if they have attributes of Fleming’s Bond, none of them really resemble him either way. So the argument that a Bond actor must resemble Fleming’s vision doesn’t hold much weight at all.
As for the topic itself, I wasn’t the one who brought it up in the thread, just merely stated my response to the question posted earlier, and I’ve used no language to offend anyone. If you don’t want to discuss it anymore then feel free, I’ve already put in my two cents on the matter, and have done so in a respectful way. Didn’t mean to offend you if I have.
Come on now, I haven’t seen any of that yet on this forum. Suggesting names that happen to be POC’s isn’t exactly pushing an agenda so much as it’s fan casting. There’s nothing more to add to that really.
Read a few posts earlier from 2 members, both race baiting. I won't mention names, but they know who they are.
Dalton I can see sort of resembling the literary Bond, but Brosnan? Not so much. Then again I’m basing this off of the ‘Hoagy Charmichael’ description.
I’m sorry you’ve encountered those types of trolls on here, it does suck when you try to have a more nuanced conversation and someone comes and acts like a troll. The point I was simply making was that I don’t think half the people suggesting someone who’s a POC are intentionally doing it to “racebait”, and at the end of the day, EON will pick who they pick and we have no influence over that decision. I personally just put my trust in EON. Craig’s era wasn’t my favorite, but that doesn’t mean I’m turned off from the series.
Off topic, but I think that's because Fleming had a rather "old way" about writing descriptions, almost 19th century like. Edward Hyde, the creature of Frankenstein, even Dracula were described in ways that were more evocative than precise. Which makes them so difficult to portray on film or stage.
I get what you mean. I'd say Fleming's writing definitely had that streak in there (his prose is also very modern even just in the sense that he tends to name specific clothes brands etc., and is otherwise quite specific about appearances in that economical way. But yes, there are scenes such as when Domino first encounters Bond in TB and she becomes fascinated with that 'darkness' about him which makes him stand out).
I think my problem with Turner is that whenever I watch him in anything it never seems like he's the 'real deal' as a potential Bond. With other potential candidates I like I can watch them even in a particularly non-Bondian role and find things in their performances that could potentially work if they were asked to screen-test for Bond. With Turner on the other hand even in And Then There Were None and the (admittedly few) episodes I've seen of Poldark I just don't quite get that same gravitas. Which is a shame as a) he's a good actor and b) he does look quite Bondian. He's just a bit flat for me as an actor, at least to he'd a film of that kind.
I STILL think Sope is the best candidate. He's alpha, he has great fashion and looks good in most things he wears, he's athletic, has swagger...
I don't care what his skin color is. He exudes all the traits I want to see in Bond, and the other candidates don't have them like this guy does.
And I don't have an agenda. I just don't, lol. I just find this actor very appealing on all fronts-- it's as simple as that.
And I understand why others disagree with me. Doesn't make that person a racist, and it doesn't mean I have an agenda, lol!
It's just an opinion.
I also think casting a man of color has problems when it comes to marketing and distribution in certain countries. I just don't see it happening just yet. At one time I thought it was possible, not anymore.
Sadly.
I think there's still a chance. They changed Dr. Who into a woman without much problem. I agree he's the best candidate at the moment, although I don't think much of him myself. He's just the best of a not very special bunch, in my opinion.
Without much problem? I don't know about that, it caused a bit of noise. Chibnall wanted a female Doctor from the outset, and I suspect cast the first actress he could think of, without stopping to think of whether she could do it. She was badly miscast, but his awful writing certainly didn't help.
Well I don't watch the show so I can't comment on the quality. I know some people weren't keen on it, but enough people seemed to like it or at least thought it was good enough. Did the ratings drop significantly?
:)
I think worldwide distribution is a tricky game (and quite frankly, well above my pay grade); but there are several large markets out there where a black man cast as James Bond could sink the box office.
I don’t know if EoN and partners (Amazon and distributors), have an appetite to face-off against the potential backlash and the loss of tens of millions of dollars (if not a hundred plus million), at the box office.
Well in fairness there was a bit of a hullabaloo about Whittikar's casting, at least within the fandom from I can tell. If anything a black actor being cast recently doesn't seem to have stirred up as much controversy (again, from what I can tell not being a Dr. Who fan, so take with a grain of salt).
I mean, I think it's perfectly possible we'll get a non-white Bond, and I think the producers are open to it. The most likely outcome is we'll have another white actor with a more diverse cast, but I also don't think EON will worry too much about marketing with a hypothetical non-white lead. It's a profitable series that has a long history and name recognition. Short of a terrible film it's unlikely to flop. They know what qualities to look for in a candidate and I have faith they'll get a strong actor who can do the job well, represent the franchise, and be... well, James Bond.
It's also worth noting that I'm sure they'll expect some sort of controversy around such a casting decision. But honestly, I don't think that matters much either in the grand scheme of things. Every new Bond has had some sort of pushback from fans and the press (hell, just look at the nonsense Daniel Craig had written about him before CR even came out - ie. he has blonde hair, a craggy face, he's under 6 foot, shock horror he wore a life jacket on the boat to his press conference etc.) Even if, say, Sope Dirisu isn't cast, in any scenario we'll no doubt get months of fan/tabloid complaints. ATJ's voice is too nasal, Jack O'Connell is too short and working class to be a good Bond, Aidan Turner hasn't ever been the lead in a bigger budget film and there are 'concerns' etc. Most, if not all the time, the film is released and the new Bond proves themselves. It'll be the same this time.
You told /Film in a previous interview that one of your career aspirations is to play a villain in a Bond movie. I was curious if you've ever had the opportunity to actually have any conversations with the folks at Eon about possibly doing that.
It begins right now. So whoever is reading this, take it as a sign. You were meant to be reading this line at this moment as you're thinking about the future of what you guys are doing with the franchise. Trust me when I say that I can bring something to an enemy of 007, whether he or she or they be played in a way that no one has ever seen Bond brought to life before, which is of course the way that you guys always do it. I think there's no one to push Bond to the limits of their capabilities the way that I could, and I would love to do it. So there's my pitch to them. I can't wait for them to read this. And then I will owe you when or if I ever get that role, I guess 10%.