Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,362
    slide_99 wrote: »
    In defense of the Brosnan era, it was the first time since the 60s where the Bond series wasn't too obviously aping other franchises. Apart from TND and DAD taking a few visual cues from what was popular in action movies at the time, the Brosnan films seemed content to just be Bond movies. That's also what I liked about Casino Royale.

    After four entries of experimentation with uneven results, the producers would do well to stop trying to impress people with wanna-be prestige films and adopt a back-to-basics approach for Bond 26.

    bravo =D>

    I couldn't agree more, bond should be about pure entertainment and thrills. That being said I want Bond 26 to a strong directorial style, that's why I think a director like Edgar Wright would be perfect. It always amazes me when people say they want a fun bond again and then their first choice as director is denis villenueve or someone that completely doesn't fit that style of film.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,518
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2023 Posts: 16,190
    I love John but I read that yesterday and thought it's a bit rich to ask folks to pay to read the same stuff that Bond forums are full of :D
    It's just a bit of a messy rant demanding all the old stuff back again, I don't really agree with that.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    "Bond never cared about continuity, but then they changed the continuity, so now I'm mad."
    But yeah, it's a pretty funny read if you've spent any time on here. Some of it feels like it's a direct copy and paste out of this thread and some others. Including the drive-by shooting at the merch store ^^

    As for @Benny's comment, I agree that the long shadow of Austin Powers has faded (bar the self-inflicted Brofeld-shaped wound) and they can dare to go a bit more fantastical with the next. I think audiences are ready to see bombastic stuff again and you don't really need to do grounded anymore. The real world is wild and stupid anyway, just go with it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2023 Posts: 8,362
    I agree with everything in post except I think its a little unrealistic to have a new film EVERY 2 years.

    But he's right that the Craig films are dull. Even if you liked Bond 25, you have to admit the film doesn't exactly leave you on a high, same goes for his whole tenure as bond. The only times you get genuinely excited is when he seems to get his mojo back for the last scene (CR/SF/SP) before promptly falling off the horse again for the next film.

    I don't know what the ultimate course of Bond will be, babs has said that she wants Bond to remain human and relatable, and evolve as "men are evolving". I don't exactly understand what she means, but I do know that the audience needs and deserves a palette cleanser Bond film. We deserve AT LEAST one film where he is handed his mission and goes about his business with all the charm and flair of the old films. We deserve a chance to see bond back at the height of his bravado, and win the day and the girl again set to a triumphant rendition of the Bond theme after how Bond 25 ended.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2023 Posts: 16,190
    "Bond never cared about continuity, but then they changed the continuity, so now I'm mad."
    But yeah, it's a pretty funny read if you've spent any time on here. Some of it feels like it's a direct copy and paste out of this thread and some others. Including the drive-by shooting at the merch store ^^

    Yeah even that's a slightly tiresome whinge. Yes, they do sell some really expensive stuff, but they also have some really quite cool T-shirts which I've bought a few of for £25. They have different price levels.
    And as Mendes4Lyfe says, they're never going to make one every two years. As I say, I love John and his podcasts, I'm even a patreon subscriber, but his outlook on films is apparent from them, and that is basically: 'everything made when I was a kid is great, everything now I'm an adult is bad'.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    I don't know what the ultimate course of Bond will be, babs has said that she wants Bond to remain human and relatable, and evolve as "men are evolving". I don't exactly understand what she means, but I do know that the audience needs and deserves a palette cleanser Bond film. We deserve AT LEAST one film where he is handed his mission and goes about his business with all the charm and flair of the old films. We deserve a chance to see bond back at the height of his bravado, and win the day and the girl again set to a triumphant rendition of the Bond theme after how Bond 25 ended.

    While I enjoy a film that goes a bit deeper than just Bond finishing a mission and I wouldn't want them to never do that again I agree that at this point we are due a mission film. And while I think Bond films are exactly where creative people can interogate what it means to be a man today (even if that may mean not changing), men - and any human - don't have deeply psychologically affecting encounters with women that challenge their entire way of seeing the world every day of the week. Just as the most exciting stunt would feel tired if they repeated it every film, they don't need to have big sweeping challenges to the character's understanding of himself everytime. Sometimes a day at the office were you have to disable a super-weapon is just a day at the office...
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,362
    I don't know what the ultimate course of Bond will be, babs has said that she wants Bond to remain human and relatable, and evolve as "men are evolving". I don't exactly understand what she means, but I do know that the audience needs and deserves a palette cleanser Bond film. We deserve AT LEAST one film where he is handed his mission and goes about his business with all the charm and flair of the old films. We deserve a chance to see bond back at the height of his bravado, and win the day and the girl again set to a triumphant rendition of the Bond theme after how Bond 25 ended.

    While I enjoy a film that goes a bit deeper than just Bond finishing a mission and I wouldn't want them to never do that again I agree that at this point we are due a mission film. And while I think Bond films are exactly where creative people can interogate what it means to be a man today (even if that may mean not changing), men - and any human - don't have deeply psychologically affecting encounters with women that challenge their entire way of seeing the world every day of the week. Just as the most exciting stunt would feel tired if they repeated it every film, they don't need to have big sweeping challenges to the character's understanding of himself everytime. Sometimes a day at the office were you have to disable a super-weapon is just a day at the office...

    Especially true since he literally died in the previous film. They've reached the ne plus ultra of the hard-hitting, packs an emotional punch type film there's no more territory to explore there, at least for a little while. It would be like trying to outdo die another day with a even bigger diamond space laser and CGI tsunami wave for Bond 21, it just doesn't make sense. EON have shown a great awareness of when it's time to change course in the past, I just hope they can do the same this time.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,190
    I still want drama and tension though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2023 Posts: 8,134
    Man, I don’t understand the merch collecting mentality. When I see this kind of crap I’m just bewildered.

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  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited March 2023 Posts: 5,940
    But a lot of you are talking as if it’s impossible to do both? In my eyes a blend of the classic Bond adventure and the more character focused realism is incredibly possible. While some dislike them for specific things they did, Skyfall and No Time To Die were good examples of that blend, but now they can execute that perfectly because they have a fresh start. The two sides of what Bond can be that I described have lent itself to the most popular eras of the franchise: Connerys and Craig’s. Again a blend of the two is what should be done going forward and I think EON can easily do it. An “emotional dramatic punch” doesn’t limit itself to the death of its main characters nor does it limit itself to realism, and a “classic formulaic adventure” doesn’t limit itself to lightheartedness, humour and cliche. What each of us love about the franchise can all be explored - together.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,362
    Denbigh wrote: »
    But a lot of you are talking as if it’s impossible to do both? In my eyes a blend of the classic Bond adventure and the more character focused realism is incredibly possible. While some dislike them for specific things they did, Skyfall and No Time To Die were good examples of that blend, but now they can execute that perfectly because they have a fresh start. The two sides of what Bond can be that I described have lent itself to the most popular eras of the franchise: Connerys and Craig’s. Again a blend of the two is what should be done going forward and I think EON can easily do it. An “emotional dramatic punch” doesn’t limit itself to the death of its main characters nor does it limit itself to realism, and a “classic formulaic adventure” doesn’t limit itself to lightheartedness, humour and cliche. What each of us love about the franchise can all be explored - together.

    I kinda agree, but I wouldn't sight Skyfall and Bond 25 as great examples. For me the lighthearted elements have never been successfully blended with Craigs bond persona. The Cuba sequence with paloma for instance feels completely at odds with the rest of the movie. The best examples for me are OHMSS and TLD where there's been a slightly more grounded take on the character without abandoning the fantasy escapist elements and still having "fun". The Craig films, by contrast, are TOO concerned with landing that emotional punch that the added humour feels kinda unnatural and forced.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited March 2023 Posts: 5,940
    Denbigh wrote: »
    But a lot of you are talking as if it’s impossible to do both? In my eyes a blend of the classic Bond adventure and the more character focused realism is incredibly possible. While some dislike them for specific things they did, Skyfall and No Time To Die were good examples of that blend, but now they can execute that perfectly because they have a fresh start. The two sides of what Bond can be that I described have lent itself to the most popular eras of the franchise: Connerys and Craig’s. Again a blend of the two is what should be done going forward and I think EON can easily do it. An “emotional dramatic punch” doesn’t limit itself to the death of its main characters nor does it limit itself to realism, and a “classic formulaic adventure” doesn’t limit itself to lightheartedness, humour and cliche. What each of us love about the franchise can all be explored - together.

    I kinda agree, but I wouldn't sight Skyfall and Bond 25 as great examples. For me the lighthearted elements have never been successfully blended with Craigs bond persona. The Cuba sequence with paloma for instance feels completely at odds with the rest of the movie. The best examples for me are OHMSS and TLD where there's been a slightly more grounded take on the character without abandoning the fantasy escapist elements and still having "fun". The Craig films, by contrast, are TOO concerned with landing that emotional punch that the added humour feels kinda unnatural and forced.
    I agree that they're not great examples because as you say the Craig-era was more focused on the more emotional dramatic side, but I think they're good examples because they were on the right track and still came across quite classic to me.

    But overall, I can't blame EON for what they did with the Craig-era because for one I thoroughly enjoyed it as a whole and each one for different reasons, and because EON were obviously lead by what was successful. Casino proved that a more realistic and "emotional" take on the franchise can work for audiences and Skyfall proved that those audiences also appreciate the more classic adventure as well as those emotional stakes, which in turn gave us Spectre and No TIme To Die, which unfortunately had some issues that couldn't really be avoided.

    Again I think the intention was there which is why I think now that they have a fresh start they have the perfect opportunity to strike that balance because in my eyes the answer is not to completely go in the other direction as you run the risk of creating something quite hollow. It's why I don't want the rights to the franchise to be sold because I worry that another company would create a version of the franchise that's like a cardboard cutout version of what general audiences think James Bond is.
  • What I’m really curious about is how the relationship between Amazon and EON will unfold as the years pass. I’m hoping Amazon won’t prove to be too antagonistic to EON in terms of their relationship.
  • Posts: 2,161
    I hope they are somewhat antagonistic. Someone with a vested interest has to light a fire under EON.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,287
    I just don’t know if Amazon sees that EoN needs a fire under them?

    This is a multi billion IP they’ve brought into the Amazon fold. Their films are wildly successful— no matter what’ one’s personal tastes. The last time Eon had a so-called “stinker” at the Box Office was in 1989!!! I despise DAD, but I can’t argue the box office results. It certainly wasn’t what I like in Bond, but it brought butts to seats.

    So, although I heard Amazon did broach the subject about expanding IP and entering into more TV (outside of the reality show that was already in the works, pre-sale), I just don’t think anyone in the industry is trying to push EoN to do anything that they don’t want to do.

    In the film industry, EoN is an incredibly successful independent enterprise.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,163
    peter wrote: »
    I just don’t know if Amazon sees that EoN needs a fire under them?

    This is a multi billion IP they’ve brought into the Amazon fold. Their films are wildly successful— no matter what’ one’s personal tastes. The last time Eon had a so-called “stinker” at the Box Office was in 1989!!! I despise DAD, but I can’t argue the box office results. It certainly wasn’t what I like in Bond, but it brought butts to seats.

    So, although I heard Amazon did broach the subject about expanding IP and entering into more TV (outside of the reality show that was already in the works, pre-sale), I just don’t think anyone in the industry is trying to push EoN to do anything that they don’t want to do.

    In the film industry, EoN is an incredibly successful independent enterprise.

    If only for a return on it’s investment, I do think that Amazon will want to see movement on EoN’s part. I wonder what is the level of communication between the parties. With nothing to go on , I believe that a rough timeframe for production and release of Bond 26 has been discussed.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,287
    I even think that it was published news, no? Once casting and 26 is on the way, i believe the goal for future films will be on a three-four year schedule.

    But remember that the investment isn’t just for Bond; Amazon bought all of MGM and its library. So Amazon isn’t just sitting on hands waiting for Bond. They have plenty of IP to capitalize on. They’ve got their hands full…
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2023 Posts: 8,362
    The bond films have been immensely successful, but other franchises are really starting to catch up and it's getting worrying. I'd be shocked if MI:7 doesn't at least flirt with to the billion dollar mark this summer given the remarkable goodwill Tom Cruise has accrued with audiences lately. The MI films have been steadily rising since part 4, and that trend only looks to multiple has TOP GUN: MAVERICK seems to be the first universally beloved genre film in years, by every demographic. Also John Wick just keeps raising the bar in terms of its ambition, and it seems like chapter 4 could go on to be considered a series high. This is why I'm kinda worried for Bond and what they have in store in the immediate future. In the wake of Bond 25, which actually managed to turn a profit despite releasing in a tricky situation, and at least has a better reputation than SP generally speaking, I hope they don't waltz into the new era without treating it like their backs are against the walls, because they really are. Bond is quickly becoming subsumed in a very crowded market of competing action blockbusters, and the genre has rarely looked healthier. They can't afford to not put their best foot forward, and really recapture the magic and deliver with this next film. Somehow EON always finds a way of coming back stronger when they've been backed into a corner and the franchise looks like it could be on shakey ground. I would count OHMSS, LALD, TSWLM, TLD, GE and CR among this list, where they really smashed it out of the park and set up the next series of films. That's what they need to pull of in the 2020's, and get the new audience of fans invested, otherwise they'll just get swallowed up by the competition and become an old series for the over 40 crowd who are nostalgic for the old days and don't like any of that gen z stuff. It doesn't matter how prestigious the series is, If bond isn't bold, exciting and engaging for the modern audience then the franchise will simply be left behind.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,287
    It’s inevitable that any series that has been around for 60 plus years (not many of those, are there), will become weaker in any cycle.

    Although I loved the Bond films from the 80s, their box office shows they were in decline.

    During the hiatus that followed, people and media questioned whether 007 could make a comeback.

    EoN and Bond may be in that downturn phase as we live and breathe. After all, they just celebrated the most successful era since Connery.

    I wouldn’t be surprised at all, if they’re at a crossroads.

    But Bond, and EoN, have a hobby, and they’ll eventually resurrect again, even if there is a season where they’re more autumn than spring.

    Or this pause is their autumn and winter and as they work through the process, 26 will be a strong return.

    In the end, there’s a process and I don’t think Amazon, or anyone else, is holding a gun to their heads.
  • They should've made the Craig films like the Sean Connery films. A little goofy and over the top but still thrilling.
    R.I.P Sir Sean Connery.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,287
    Why try and and do what’s done before @ShakenNotStirred ? Different talent in front of, and behind the cameras.

    Trying to make something like 60s Connery or 70/80s Moore? That’s just death.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2023 Posts: 8,362
    For me post 2012 has been like a long autumn, and I hope 2021 - 2025 is the winter while the backstage shuffling takes place and then they can bounce back with something vibrant and fresh in 2026 that carries the series forward. There's only been 2 films in the past decade, so if the next film is a dudd, I think that would be really bad for the franchise longterm. They have to bring out their A game, because that's what the other franchise are doing and I don't want bond to get overshadowed.

    Christopher Nolan has basically admitted to being a Bond fanboy his whole career, and he's just dying to "reinvent" bond from the ground up. I think its safe to say that he would be interested in pitching EON his idea. If they like what he has, and decide he can do the series justice, then by all means give him 300 million to create his epic. He's not my first choice, but most importantly the series needs a safe pair of hands, and once Nolan has showcased his OPPENHIEMER film, which people are already raving over, then I think he's gonna be interested in flexing his genre cinema muscles once again. It does seem like a good fit after all these years, and it seems like the scheduling is lining up perfectly for Bond to be his next project. I wouldn't say it is an outstanding choice, but there are lots of worse options I could name, and like I said he is clearly a very passionate lifelong fan of Bond, and being considered one of the best big budget filmmakers of his generation, it would seem like a fitting partnership.

  • @Peter I do like the Craig films but you know the next Bond will also be serious and darker it's the modern world. Having more silly plots can open up for more creative writing and a better time. How many movies serious movies have the plot of their is a nuke or a virus vs How many not so serious movies has an Octopussy? But I'm not saying redo the old ones just make them a little more goofy cheesy and fun then their will be more creative writing and all together more fun.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,287
    @ShakenNotStirred … I see what you’re saying. Not sure if I wholly agree that goofy cheese and fun will make for more creative writing, but I do see the point you’re making.
  • It is kinda funny that the Craig films are the only serious ones.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,287
    It is kinda funny that the Craig films are the only serious ones.

    I still found dry humour in them, personally. I know it’s not to everyones tastes— just like the films themselves. It’s all subjective, and not one way or the other is the absolute correct or incorrect way of making a film, or making a Bond picture.

    I’m happy that I truly adore most of the films. Most are like comfort food to me. I watch them and they make me feel relaxed and at ease.

    And then I have my Craig era, which challenged and pushed the character in ways I’ve never seen James Bond go in before.

    I don’t know what I want from the next guy, other than: just find your “way” and go for it…
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I loved that dry wit in the Craig era, for the most part it was perfectly pitched for Bond. It felt appropriate but never forced
    It is kinda funny that the Craig films are the only serious ones.

    I hope they stick with that tone myself, I really enjoyed Bond being taken seriously.
    Hopefully in the next era, the films are written more throughly and perhaps film them a bit closer together, if they plan on more continuity again
  • I will die if Lashana Lynch Is the next Bond
  • Posts: 1,867
    Goofy? Cheesy? Certainly not my idea of Connery first four films. Moore films? Very much so.






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