WITH A MIND TO KILL by Anthony Horowitz (May 2022)

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  • Posts: 1,536
    Since62 wrote: »
    I've not yet read WAMTK, but...is ANYONE going to pick up on the Fleming indication (statement, more like it ?) that Bond has a Japanese daughter ??? I forget, but it might have been - child on the way...

    Apologies, but I sure hope no Spoiler Alerts are needed for YOLT or TMWTGG...publication occurred looooong ago
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2022 Posts: 17,622
    Since62 wrote: »
    I've not yet read WAMTK, but...is ANYONE going to pick up on the Fleming indication (statement, more like it ?) that Bond has a Japanese daughter ??? I forget, but it might have been - child on the way...

    Yes, Raymond Benson already covered what happened to Bond's son with Kissy Suzuki, one James Suzuki, in his first Bond short story 'Blast from the Past' (1996). John Gardner had wanted to use the son during his tenure after many fans wrote to him suggesting it but Glidrose wouldn't allow it at that particular time.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited June 2022 Posts: 2,161
    Since62 wrote: »
    I've not yet read WAMTK, but...is ANYONE going to pick up on the Fleming indication (statement, more like it ?) that Bond has a Japanese daughter ??? I forget, but it might have been - child on the way...

    Benson wrote a short story for PLAYBOY (A BLAST FROM THE PAST) where it picks up with the child being a grown son, and Bond has met him. It was Benson's first Bond story, and the only thing I have ever read of his. It is so poorly written that I am surprised that PLAYBOY published it, or that Gildrose would continue with as steward of the character moving forward. It messes with continuity in several ways that I am not a fan of, but beyond that it just reads as amateur hour, or the weakest fan fiction.
  • Posts: 5,745
    And the child wazs mentioned in John Pearson's biography of Bond as well.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2022 Posts: 17,622
    Gerard wrote: »
    And the child wazs mentioned in John Pearson's biography of Bond as well.

    Yes, that was an additional source for a few things during the Gardner and Benson years including Bond having an Uncle Bruce in Australia who left him a fortune in Gardner's Role of Honour (1984) so that he could leave the British Secret Service. The continuation authors seemed to use Pearson's Authorised Biography of Bond to fill on some of the gaps left in Bond's sometimes sketchy backstory from the Fleming novels, such as the YOLT Times obituary which is the main official source on Bond's life.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    Yes, that obituary and the short story OP, are about it (and the remembrances younger days and of the war scattered throughout).
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,622
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Yes, that obituary and the short story OP, are about it (and the remembrances younger days and of the war scattered throughout).

    Yes, that's true. I think he mentions something about his childhood in FRWL too and of course then there's the opening chapter of OHMSS where he reminisces about his childhood on the beach.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    Yes, that is the oddest one. That is the only time we get a glimpse inside the head of child Bond.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,622
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Yes, that is the oddest one. That is the only time we get a glimpse inside the head of child Bond.

    Yes, and if I remember correctly he considers his childhood memories mawkish. He quickly shuts that long closed filing cabinet door in his mind again to deal with the matter at hand.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,517
    I (accidentally) ordered a signed edition from Waterstones and Goldsboro, and there were a couple unexpected differences, so I thought I'd share them here in case the information is interesting to anyone.

    Waterstones Left, Goldsboro Right. Everything's the same here, but Goldsboro comes with a plastic covering that Waterstones does not.
    289400678_368578832033767_3185847937964765587_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=pay7wWAkJg4AX_5IXpr&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=00_AT-vobYNvTQHQ2AHTNslNqMqtiHqFiTSsBEm0g7Hzc2U-A&oe=62B69EDD

    Waterstones Top, Goldsboro Bottom. 007 pattern on Waterstones, Goldsboro just black.
    289409030_368578825367101_5327694963916550391_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=WyobKkqLya4AX9tzIMS&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=00_AT9R55SlSmgIrdr474ZW6Mdxhy7k3g60camIs3j8TEa6vg&oe=62B6CC00

    Waterstones Title Page: Signature Only.
    289721628_368578842033766_8496696731700081991_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=K-R6PjReEL4AX8JtrIB&tn=ZTmoIFIhE_KzLC4z&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=00_AT_UlcsCpcLH95mDvoUv2Uoo4O2MwILEWzshuWvN7C3aZw&oe=62B69A3F

    Goldsboro Title Page: Signature, edition number out of one thousand, "In association with Goldsboro Books May 2022" at the bottom.
    289524064_368578815367102_1438609253802452485_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=038Ko-8ja-EAX-fUBNC&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=00_AT_hFZkoVBqo8kipYJcPknLYwng7xb2IU4h93XMqumP3yw&oe=62B61295
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,370
    Thanks @NickTwentyTwo.
  • edited July 2022 Posts: 3,209
    Just finished it yesterday. Overall very good story, it filled in a lot of blanks left by Fleming with TMWTGG.

    The good - structure wise and plot wise felt very Fleming. Probably about 80 to 90 percent it felt it could have been written by him.

    The bad - Horowitz still manages to take me out of Fleming world immediately with an occasional turn of phrase that didn't sound very Fleming, or a slightly naïve opinion, or something which didn't really feel like something Fleming would write. It only happens occasionally, but when it does it is a reminder that this isn't Fleming you are reading.

    Another reason it didn't feel very Fleming, there were no uplifting moments, no clear blue sunny skies, nice meals to indulge, Bond slipping into his Sea Island cottons. Throughout the tone is rather downbeat, atmosphere grey and drab, and something Fleming wouldn't focus too much on. He always had London as the cold grey place, until Bond set off to a sunlit remote destination. Fleming books always made you feel like you were on holiday.

    This is not too much of a criticism, because its what made the Fleming books so unique - only he could have written them the way they were. And also the story told was an aftermath to TMWTGG, and setting it in Russia there was no way to have those nice beaches and blue skies. It served its purpose for the story.

    I feel all 3 novels were good, not excellent. Probably the closest to Fleming from any writer after his death, even more than Amis.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,487
    After my first copy arrived damaged, I was sent a replacement, and allowed to keep the damaged copy - the bottom corner of the spin is torn.

    I don't want to throw out what is otherwise a perfectly fine and readable book.

    Does anyone have any idea's on what I could do with the damaged copy?
  • Finished this. Think there could've been more to it, but also like how taut it is. Heckuva an ending.
    Really relies on the internal monologue to work, but would've preferred something more akin to this for NTTD's end.
  • Posts: 3,209
    Finished this. Think there could've been more to it, but also like how taut it is. Heckuva an ending.
    Really relies on the internal monologue to work, but would've preferred something more akin to this for NTTD's end.

    Yes, that's how you do an ending, rather than the diabolic NTTD.
  • Finished this. Think there could've been more to it, but also like how taut it is. Heckuva an ending.
    Really relies on the internal monologue to work, but would've preferred something more akin to this for NTTD's end.

    Yes, that's how you do an ending, rather than the diabolic NTTD.
    It's the perfect summation of the character in three words:
    He kept walking.
  • Posts: 624
    Just finished With A Mind to Kill yesterday. Very fast read. Just a few thoughts, I've never been one to write full reviews.
    It was my least favorite of Horowitz' trilogy. Felt like a remake of FRWL in some ways. Didn't really add anything new to the 69 year old book series. Missing lots of Bond tropes. End felt too curt, a cop out. Why have a cliffhanger if you aren't going to write a 4th book? Would have liked to see Bond get a debriefing from M and see the aftermath of the whole of MI6 thinking Bond's a traitor.
  • edited July 2022 Posts: 985
    I got a FRWL vibe from it as well, especially the ending. But I really liked it, and it was darker than I expected. You really felt a sense of Bond being in danger. I'm not sure how I'd rate it in the Horowitz trilogy, as it's been so long since I read TM.
    I definitely wanted one extra M scene towards the end. And I'm not sure I'd call the ending 'a cliffhanger'. It was unresolved in a way, of course, but it was more than a simple cliffhanger, it was quite symbolic I thought, and very OHMSS (the book). I think Horowitz has completely earned the right to give us a question mark at the end.
    And I'm glad to see someone else here favorably comparing it to the bloody stupid ham-fisted NTTD movie ending, which cynically served it all up on a fast food plate.
    It's not the first time I've thought James Bond works better in books.
  • Posts: 624
    I guess I was happy with the ending that YOLT and TMWTGG gave me. WAMTK didn't really add anything worth while to it.
    I think we didn't get an M debrief scene because Horowitz wanted it unresolved and ambiguous. I don't agree with that approach, but it is what it is. So now instead of the end of Bond's story being riding off into the sunset with Goodnight, we have Schrodinger's Bond... which is if you consider Horowitz canon. (I don't.) Only Fleming is canon.
  • Posts: 985
    The ending of TMWTGG was pretty downbeat I thought. I read somewhere, and it might have been on here, that Fleming added the line/short paragraph about 'the same view would always pall', after he'd summitted the original draft that ended with 'Goodnight, you're an angel'.
    Does that ring a bell with anyone?

    I don't consider Horowitz canon either. They're more a literary tribute, and I think they work really well in that context.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,622
    The ending of TMWTGG was pretty downbeat I thought. I read somewhere, and it might have been on here, that Fleming added the line/short paragraph about 'the same view would always pall', after he'd summitted the original draft that ended with 'Goodnight, you're an angel'.
    Does that ring a bell with anyone?

    I don't consider Horowitz canon either. They're more a literary tribute, and I think they work really well in that context.

    Yes, see the MI6HQ main page article here from 2017:

    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/literary-tmwtgg-authors-corrected-typescript?id=4323
  • Posts: 985
    thanks for that. It's quite a significant edit/addition.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2022 Posts: 17,622
    thanks for that. It's quite a significant edit/addition.

    Yes indeed, and our esteemed Fleming and literary Bond scholar, @Revelator, had a thread on it at the time which has been added to since:

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/18460/the-man-with-the-golden-gun-and-kingsley-amis-case-closed/
  • Posts: 985
    That's a fascinating thread. There's quite a few posts on there that could have been made into their own threads in this literary Bond forum. Amis' review for one.
    I do understand why people don't like to open new threads on here though, given the moderators penchant for closing new threads.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,622
    That's a fascinating thread. There's quite a few posts on there that could have been made into their own threads in this literary Bond forum. Amis' review for one.
    I do understand why people don't like to open new threads on here though, given the moderators penchant for closing new threads.

    Yes, the moderators like to keep threads and the forum more generally tidy. Everyone has threads closed at the start and it's just something you learn early on, not to duplicate existing threads. However, usually I find there is more scope within the Literary 007 sub-forum to create new and unique threads on topics that haven't been discussed before. It does just take some careful checking on Google to make sure that a thread idea hasn't already been covered before starting a new one. It's usually not a problem anyway as the literary Bond threads I create are usually on fairly arcane subjects only really of interest to a select few members here. :)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,181
    That's a fascinating thread. There's quite a few posts on there that could have been made into their own threads in this literary Bond forum. Amis' review for one.
    I do understand why people don't like to open new threads on here though, given the moderators penchant for closing new threads.

    We're totally fine with new threads that are warranted and creative, but why open up a new one for something that already exists?
  • edited July 2022 Posts: 985
    When you close a newcomer's thread simply because they haven't googled properly, you're essentially saying "you shouldn't have started that thread". It's an admonishment, even if it's not meant that way. I've seen threads blocked because there was a similar thread that died six years ago, six years!
    It's something I've only seen happen on this forum, and I think in the effort to keep things 'tidy', the mods risk rubbing people up the wrong way. And is the forum really any 'tidier' with the new threads still on-line, but with 'closed' stamped on them like a red 'must do better' from teacher?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,181
    When you close a newcomer's thread simply because they haven't googled properly, you're essentially saying "you shouldn't have started that thread". It's an admonishment, even if it's not meant that way. I've seen threads blocked because there was a similar thread that died six years ago, six years!
    It's something I've only seen happen on this forum, and I think in the effort to keep things 'tidy', the mods risk rubbing people up the wrong way. And is the forum really any 'tidier' with the new threads still on-line, but with 'closed' stamped on them like a red 'must do better' from teacher?

    They end up disappearing in time since nobody else is posting in them - it's why we suggest Googling in the first place, so that's avoided. I know it's not a flawless system though and duplicates inevitably happen, and sometimes they're so old that we let them go.

    It's extreme to say directing someone to the appropriate spot is "admonishment," especially when we note to please continue the discussion in the existing thread. I think some folks just enjoy opening up threads more than they do facilitating a new topic. Nobody is "warned" in the slightest when that happens and we can't help if folks take it that way, as no mod is threatening or rude when we do so.

    I personally love seeing new threads opened up, especially ones that invite new discussion and debate, so I wouldn't assume we're over here frothing at the mouth any time one is opened. That's unfair.
  • Posts: 985
    The ideal situation I think, would be for mods to merge the new topics with the older threads that are seen as duplicates, instead of closing them. That way, any effort the poster has made into making the thread, isn't automatically 'killed' and stamped with a closed sign.
    I'm sure there's no malice behind closing threads, but it can send out negative vibes when someone has bothered to make a new thread they innocently thought might be of interest to other members.
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