NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    I can only imagine the mosquito bit in the Toyota Rav4 or whatever it was was sort of a foreshadowing bit that even if Bond was in total isolation, even a single mosquito coming into contact with Bond would mean the end of Madeleine and Mathilde.

    Oh, that might be something. It's very, very hidden and around several corners, but that might be the reason for that piece of dialogue by Mathilde that some of us have been looking for.
    Feyador wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    A friend of mine and his girlfriend went to see NTTD on Friday, they're both casual viewers, they've seen most of the Craig's.
    I asked them what they thought and she said "NTTD wasn't interesting and wasn't sexy" and he said, the action felt out of place in this long winded rom com 😅

    While I disagree with most of that, I find it interesting that they mention it not being sexy, because I think it missed that and the glamorous lifestyle of Bond. It did feel almost like any playfulness/flirtation was gone.
    It felt like Paloma was added specifically because that component of the film was sorely lacking, without her I think this film would have been even more dour

    I don't want to say that NTTD is an "old man's film" [being close to one myself, lol], but maybe it is. It definitely has an autumnal feel about it, especially in relation to a James Bond who is actually playing his age for the most part [cf. Moore in the '80s].

    But is NTTD "not sexy," however beautifully shot? Yeah, I guess so, as we're a long way from a truly buff Craig here. And of course the only woman he sleeps with in the film is Madeleine and he even seems befuddled at first in his early encounters with Nomi and later Paloma, an episode that feels distinctly added to the film to "sex it up" at bit.

    It's not hard to imagine a largely if not entirely monogamous Bond in his retirement in Jamaica. [Those books on his table are definitely going to require a lot of free time to get through, though he does seem familiar with the club, haha.] Doesn't M later on refer to Bond as "living off the grid," or something like that? And while not having gone to the extremes of Mr. White in SP, he's not a million miles away from it. And it may even be imaginable that Craig-Bond would have gone to such lengths of isolation had he survived Poison Island, necessarily in order to protect Madeleine & Madeleine from himself. I can just about see a scenario where Craig-Bond remains on the island to live as a hermit, much like White in SP.  But then that surely would have been the greater tragedy.

    You know, I wonder if NTTD has greater appeal to older rather than younger Bond fans? I mean, a thematic concern with mortality, lol, is just not "sexy" ...

    My very first reaction, when walking out of the film (apart from shock) was: This is peak-"Bond as a fantasy for middle-aged dads". That was mainly due to the ending. I always read it as him making a concious decision to sacrifice himself for his family. Eventhough I don't have children myself, I assume for an average family father it is way more relatable to make a sacrifice for their well-being than to leave your loved ones behind or even see them die and just go on like nothing happened (Here, we are again at what I consider one of the major contentious points with NTTD: Do I want to see something I can relate to or do I want pure escapism?).
    There are other aspects to this as well:
    Bond leaves the work role he has had for a long time is replaced by a younger (black, female) colleague. Probably something that some men can relate to and had to deal with.
    He meets an extremely attractive young woman at a work event. The best case scenario is them doing their work well and having a fun, friendly relationship. He doesn't even try to seduce her. Again, quite an adult way to approach that set-up.
    The dual fantasy of just retiring alone to a quiet cabin in the Carribean, but still being needed and wanted in this life. Again, something you probably can relate to more when you are fifty then 25-30.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,895
    Blofeld to Bond, in the ruins of the MI6 building in SP: 'You have a choice - die trying to save her or save yourself and live with the pain.'
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 573
    Huh, yeah, Spectre was on TV last night and it was the first time I watched it in ages. NTTD definitely elevated it for me and I did notice little bits of what you could see as foreshadowing like that quote.
  • Seve wrote: »
    In order to try and make your point rather than accept the reality of where we are you offer two options one that the story that has been told through CT to NTTD could have simply been foisted on the next actor or just ignored either proposition is ludicrous.

    You are entitled to your opinion, but sweeping statements don't make your argument

    Fair play you straw man your own straw man.

    If you're not familiar with Callan or Book Matt Helm there's no shame in admitting it

    Look "Seve" I have a degree of emotional intelligence and I recognise bait and switch and straw man tactics. The fact that you do not directly deal with my observations but bait and change is I am sure obvious to any reader of this thread. For the record I know Callan and I agree it is proto underlying motivation. But that is not the point the point is that the kind of arc that Daniel pursued is right on trend NOW and all over media and is what people want and get in many other forms of drama. As Michael Wilson says in being bond the problem with blockbuster movies is they are often guilty of being heavy on plot and light on character development. The five movies of Daniel have always tried to balance both and QOS would have succeeded but for the writers strike AND they have been made with the language of Bond Moviedom.

    However the absolute fundamental difference between you and I is that I bought into Daniels journey hook line and sinker and the idea that it can either be dismissed or treated like floating continuity bond does not fly with me in the least. You can bait switch straw man all you like but that fundamental point puts clear blue water between us ....oceans of it.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,895
    I'd say that QOS succeeded despite the writers' strike. And they keep it quiet now, but after the writers' strike was over, Marc Forster brought in another writer (Joshua Zetzumer) to polish the script/dialogue for the parts they still needed to film. The party line of Forster and Craig struggling to make the best of an unfinished script is a bit of a convenient shield against the critical response to QOS, but it's not strictly accurate.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 718
    Venutius wrote: »
    Blofeld to Bond, in the ruins of the MI6 building in SP: 'You have a choice - die trying to save her or save yourself and live with the pain.'
    It's almost as if the last few films have been set up to flesh-out a set of artificial moral concerns.

    At some point in the last fifteen years Broccoli & Wilson decided to turn the films into "prestige" projects. Was that done primarily to retain the interest of Craig? I don't know; but certainly you don't bring in a collection of people like Fiennes, Mendes, Fukunaga, Deakins, Logan, Bardem, and so many others just to make TSWLM over & over again. They couldn't do so, even if they tried. "Artists," all ... rather than "mere" craftsmen, you might say.

    Perhaps EON was already started down that path, half-heartedly, with the hiring of Dalton and then Judi Dench. Indeed, at least two directors in the Brosnan era were or a moderately auteurist persuasion. So this now dominant tendency towards the "prestige" had been in gestation for a long time.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,895
    00Heaven wrote: »
    Huh, yeah, Spectre was on TV last night and it was the first time I watched it in ages. NTTD definitely elevated it for me and I did notice little bits of what you could see as foreshadowing like that quote.
    Yes, exactly - I must've seen SP a couple of dozen times, but watching it on tv last night was the first time I'd seen it since NTTD and, in the light of NTTD, that line certainly had new resonance to it.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 718
    I can only imagine the mosquito bit in the Toyota Rav4 or whatever it was was sort of a foreshadowing bit that even if Bond was in total isolation, even a single mosquito coming into contact with Bond would mean the end of Madeleine and Mathilde.

    Oh, that might be something. It's very, very hidden and around several corners, but that might be the reason for that piece of dialogue by Mathilde that some of us have been looking for.
    Feyador wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    A friend of mine and his girlfriend went to see NTTD on Friday, they're both casual viewers, they've seen most of the Craig's.
    I asked them what they thought and she said "NTTD wasn't interesting and wasn't sexy" and he said, the action felt out of place in this long winded rom com 😅

    While I disagree with most of that, I find it interesting that they mention it not being sexy, because I think it missed that and the glamorous lifestyle of Bond. It did feel almost like any playfulness/flirtation was gone.
    It felt like Paloma was added specifically because that component of the film was sorely lacking, without her I think this film would have been even more dour

    I don't want to say that NTTD is an "old man's film" [being close to one myself, lol], but maybe it is. It definitely has an autumnal feel about it, especially in relation to a James Bond who is actually playing his age for the most part [cf. Moore in the '80s].

    But is NTTD "not sexy," however beautifully shot? Yeah, I guess so, as we're a long way from a truly buff Craig here. And of course the only woman he sleeps with in the film is Madeleine and he even seems befuddled at first in his early encounters with Nomi and later Paloma, an episode that feels distinctly added to the film to "sex it up" at bit.

    It's not hard to imagine a largely if not entirely monogamous Bond in his retirement in Jamaica. [Those books on his table are definitely going to require a lot of free time to get through, though he does seem familiar with the club, haha.] Doesn't M later on refer to Bond as "living off the grid," or something like that? And while not having gone to the extremes of Mr. White in SP, he's not a million miles away from it. And it may even be imaginable that Craig-Bond would have gone to such lengths of isolation had he survived Poison Island, necessarily in order to protect Madeleine & Madeleine from himself. I can just about see a scenario where Craig-Bond remains on the island to live as a hermit, much like White in SP.  But then that surely would have been the greater tragedy.

    You know, I wonder if NTTD has greater appeal to older rather than younger Bond fans? I mean, a thematic concern with mortality, lol, is just not "sexy" ...

    My very first reaction, when walking out of the film (apart from shock) was: This is peak-"Bond as a fantasy for middle-aged dads". That was mainly due to the ending. I always read it as him making a concious decision to sacrifice himself for his family. Eventhough I don't have children myself, I assume for an average family father it is way more relatable to make a sacrifice for their well-being than to leave your loved ones behind or even see them die and just go on like nothing happened (Here, we are again at what I consider one of the major contentious points with NTTD: Do I want to see something I can relate to or do I want pure escapism?).
    There are other aspects to this as well:
    Bond leaves the work role he has had for a long time is replaced by a younger (black, female) colleague. Probably something that some men can relate to and had to deal with.
    He meets an extremely attractive young woman at a work event. The best case scenario is them doing their work well and having a fun, friendly relationship. He doesn't even try to seduce her. Again, quite an adult way to approach that set-up.
    The dual fantasy of just retiring alone to a quiet cabin in the Carribean, but still being needed and wanted in this life. Again, something you probably can relate to more when you are fifty then 25-30.
    Yes, I think you're right about that. But I've rather enjoyed this "adult" Bond, personally.

    I wonder, are the "escapist" and the "relatable" necessarily mutually exclusive concepts? I think they can each inform the other, though, of course, an uneasy tension may remain between the two. And that tension (between morality play & genre fantasy) is certainly present in NTTD.

    Perhaps what comes next will be a tone that is lighter & breezier, younger & sexier - and so long as it is done with a bit of wit & invention, I will welcome that, too.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 66
    Venutius wrote: »
    Blofeld to Bond, in the ruins of the MI6 building in SP: 'You have a choice - die trying to save her or save yourself and live with the pain.'

    Oh, good catch. Love how that now connects to Blofeld giving the ending away halfway through NTTD. “Once her secret finds its way out, it will be the death of you.”
  • Posts: 372
    Clearly he was expecting him to die! LOL
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 3,272
    Interesting article, justifying the ending of NTTD and that its closer to Fleming than I first thought. Hmmm...I may have to reconsider NTTD now. Looks like I'll have to give it another go.

    https://crimereads.com/fatalism-james-bond-series/?fbclid=IwAR2yoV7g175zYSS-rUeBY3N2qWgGIZAuLLsJtyHMBimqk4ZJX7WmGARiIpo
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 718
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Blofeld to Bond, in the ruins of the MI6 building in SP: 'You have a choice - die trying to save her or save yourself and live with the pain.'

    Oh, good catch. Love how that now connects to Blofeld giving the ending away halfway through NTTD. “Once her secret finds its way it, it will be the death of you.”
    The secret being Mathilde? Yes, I think that works ....
    Interesting article, justifying the ending of NTTD and that its closer to Fleming than I first thought. Hmmm...I may have to reconsider NTTD now. Looks like I'll have to give it another go.

    https://crimereads.com/fatalism-james-bond-series/?fbclid=IwAR2yoV7g175zYSS-rUeBY3N2qWgGIZAuLLsJtyHMBimqk4ZJX7WmGARiIpo
    Thank you, an excellent read ... 👏
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 66
    Feyador wrote: »
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Blofeld to Bond, in the ruins of the MI6 building in SP: 'You have a choice - die trying to save her or save yourself and live with the pain.'

    Oh, good catch. Love how that now connects to Blofeld giving the ending away halfway through NTTD. “Once her secret finds its way it, it will be the death of you.”
    The secret being Mathilde? Yes, I think that works ....
    Interesting article, justifying the ending of NTTD and that its closer to Fleming than I first thought. Hmmm...I may have to reconsider NTTD now. Looks like I'll have to give it another go.

    https://crimereads.com/fatalism-james-bond-series/?fbclid=IwAR2yoV7g175zYSS-rUeBY3N2qWgGIZAuLLsJtyHMBimqk4ZJX7WmGARiIpo
    Thank you, an excellent read ... 👏

    Yes, Mathilde. Blofeld knows about all of Madeleine's secrets which is why he says "she holds the secrets you need, all of them." Bond needed information on Safin but he also needed to know the truth about Madeleine not betraying him, the truth about Mathilde and the promise of a family. But the "death of you" line is specifically referencing Mathilde which is why I think it does foreshadow a choice Bond makes to stay and die. Protecting his family is literally the death of him rather than him bleeding out while trying to escape. I think the SPECTRE quote referenced by Venutius also adds richness to this as well as Bond promising White in SPECTRE that he would protect Madeleine and "keep her alive." He still manages to fulfill this promise and even protect White's granddaughter one film later.

    I know you hold a slightly different take on the ending, but I think we mostly end up at the same place. It's fun to discuss though. Great art tends to bring out different things in different people. Bloody big ship and all that, right?
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2021 Posts: 2,895
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    as well as Bond promising White in SPECTRE that he would protect Madeleine and "keep her alive."
    Hey, that's another good point - nice spot.
  • Posts: 2,887
    Interesting article, justifying the ending of NTTD and that its closer to Fleming than I first thought. Hmmm...I may have to reconsider NTTD now. Looks like I'll have to give it another go.

    By all means! I need to do so too. However, the article only lists three examples from Fleming, and only one actually counts as fatalism. The other two involve being ready to sacrifice himself for his country and a vin triste where he seeks to excuse himself for kiling someone.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited November 2021 Posts: 357
    Look "Seve" I have a degree of emotional intelligence and I recognise bait and switch and straw man tactics.
    You are overthinking things, perhaps you've read too many Le Carre novels?

    I had to look those terms up to see what they meant I'm afraid

    However the absolute fundamental difference between you and I is that I bought into Daniels journey hook line and sinker and the idea that it can either be dismissed or treated like floating continuity bond does not fly with me in the least.
    Obviously, but just because you think a certain way doesn't make it the one truth faith in the Universe.

    I'm allowed to express alternatives if I like, and you don't have to reply if you think they are merely an attempt to bait you.

    It's true I've never been a fan of the idea of "soap opera" Bond, something which began to seep in, in a superficial way, during Brosnan's time in the role.

    I guess a dramatic death was the inevitable consequence of going down that road, given the nature of the characters profession.

    It will be interesting to see where they go from here
  • Posts: 372
    Anyone remember Layer Cake? The film that supposedly helped Craig get the gig.

    What happens at the end?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Stamper wrote: »
    Anyone remember Layer Cake? The film that supposedly helped Craig get the gig.

    What happens at the end?

    According to Barbara Broccoli it wasn’t LAYER CAKE that sold her on Craig, it was his supporting role in ELIZABETH.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited November 2021 Posts: 357
    .
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited November 2021 Posts: 357
    Feyador wrote: »
    It's almost as if the last few films have been set up to flesh-out a set of artificial moral concerns.

    At some point in the last fifteen years Broccoli & Wilson decided to turn the films into "prestige" projects. Was that done primarily to retain the interest of Craig? I don't know; but certainly you don't bring in a collection of people like Fiennes, Mendes, Fukunaga, Deakins, Logan, Bardem, and so many others just to make TSWLM over & over again. They couldn't do so, even if they tried. "Artists", all ... rather than "mere" craftsmen, you might say.

    Perhaps EON was already started down that path, half-heartedly, with the hiring of Dalton and then Judi Dench. Indeed, at least two directors in the Brosnan era were or a moderately auteurist persuasion. So this now dominant tendency towards the "prestige" had been in gestation for a long time.
    IMO this is right on the money

    Except I would prefer the term "Entertainers" rather than "mere craftsman"
    Interesting article, justifying the ending of NTTD and that its closer to Fleming than I first thought. Hmmm...I may have to reconsider NTTD now. Looks like I'll have to give it another go.

    https://crimereads.com/fatalism-james-bond-series/?fbclid=IwAR2yoV7g175zYSS-rUeBY3N2qWgGIZAuLLsJtyHMBimqk4ZJX7WmGARiIpo
    Thanks for sharing

    Did you read the replies as well?

    Nicolás Suszczyk •

    I couldn't possibly disagree more. Ian Fleming's James Bond was someone who had its down moments, but he always craved for life and enjoyment. He enjoys the pleasures of life: has his breakfast prepared in a very unique way, has a special recipe for his Martini, dresses in Sea Island cotton shirts and knitted black ties, thinks of sex as a pleasure, and whenever he's about to die, there's an inner voice in him that appeals to his instinct for survival: "Now he was finished. Now it was the end. Now he would fall flat and slowly fry to death. No! He must drive on, screaming, until his flesh was burned to the bone. (...) Scream, scream, scream! It helps the pain. It tells you you're alive. Go on! Go on! It can't be much longer. This isn't where you are supposed to die. Don't give up! You can't!" (Dr No, 1958). Yes, he contemplates sacrifice in Moonraker, but that doesn't means he wanted to die...

    The Bond we saw in NTTD couldn't be possibly more different to Fleming's Bond or to the cinematic Bond. He would have NEVER commit suicide in the way he did when he had a chance to escape. Goodness, Safin could have tricked him into thinking that was the virus and he could have injected him with tomato soup! Bond's ending in the Fleming's novels is far from cursed. This is how Fleming's final novel, The Man With The Golden Gun, ends: "At the same time, he knew, deep down, that love from Mary Goodnight, or from any other woman, was not enough for him. It would be like taking 'a room with a view'. For James Bond, the same view would always pall." Nothing could be less tragic than that.
  • Posts: 372
    Who says Bond is dead? He will return.

    Regarding Layer Cake, you will notice the lack of mention in official featurettes, I think it's because Matthew Vaughn had a strong hand into making Craig happen, but EON had doubts about him directing a Bond film.

    Matthew was trying to get the gig as far back as the Brosnan days. Remember when Michael G. Wilson mentioned he had stupid pitches by directors, like one saying he wanted to film a shoot out in the dark? MGW answer why, "if it's shot in the dark, no one can bloody see anything! That's the stupidest action scene pitch I have ever heard".

    Cut to this:

    https://youtu.be/-SbnqIIkXQc

    And wanna hear something crazy? The scene kicks off with someone saying "Time to Die!"
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 718
    Revelator wrote: »
    Interesting article, justifying the ending of NTTD and that its closer to Fleming than I first thought. Hmmm...I may have to reconsider NTTD now. Looks like I'll have to give it another go.

    By all means! I need to do so too. However, the article only lists three examples from Fleming, and only one actually counts as fatalism. The other two involve being ready to sacrifice himself for his country and a vin triste where he seeks to excuse himself for kiling someone.

    I think this is rather wonderful ...

    “You start to die the moment you are born. The whole of life is cutting through the pack with death. So take it easy. Light a cigarette and be grateful you are still alive as you suck the smoke deep into your lungs. Your stars have already let you come quite a long way since you left your mother’s womb and whimpered at the cold air of the world.” [Live and Let Die]

    It doesn't get much more fatalistic than that. And it is this outlook that lies underneath his hedonism.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,518
    I definitely will. I’m. Not saying he will be traumatized, but I don’t think he will like it- that Bond dies. You guys have to realize that some people get really emotionally invested in characters and follow them passionately for a long time. They develop a bond with said character- I’m other words, attachment. I have no idea why it is so hard to grasp that.

    @sworddevil1, we all are very emotionally invested in Bond, and have followed him passionately for a long time. I'd hate for you to think you're *more* invested or a *bigger* fan of Bond in some regard just because you were so offended by the end of NTTD; like the bigger offense a person takes towards the ending is a badge of honour of being a bigger fan of Bond than others.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,999
    Seve wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    It's almost as if the last few films have been set up to flesh-out a set of artificial moral concerns.

    At some point in the last fifteen years Broccoli & Wilson decided to turn the films into "prestige" projects. Was that done primarily to retain the interest of Craig? I don't know; but certainly you don't bring in a collection of people like Fiennes, Mendes, Fukunaga, Deakins, Logan, Bardem, and so many others just to make TSWLM over & over again. They couldn't do so, even if they tried. "Artists", all ... rather than "mere" craftsmen, you might say.

    Perhaps EON was already started down that path, half-heartedly, with the hiring of Dalton and then Judi Dench. Indeed, at least two directors in the Brosnan era were or a moderately auteurist persuasion. So this now dominant tendency towards the "prestige" had been in gestation for a long time.
    IMO this is right on the money

    Except I would prefer the term "Entertainers" rather than "mere craftsman"
    Interesting article, justifying the ending of NTTD and that its closer to Fleming than I first thought. Hmmm...I may have to reconsider NTTD now. Looks like I'll have to give it another go.

    https://crimereads.com/fatalism-james-bond-series/?fbclid=IwAR2yoV7g175zYSS-rUeBY3N2qWgGIZAuLLsJtyHMBimqk4ZJX7WmGARiIpo
    Thanks for sharing

    Did you read the replies as well?

    Nicolás Suszczyk •

    I couldn't possibly disagree more. Ian Fleming's James Bond was someone who had its down moments, but he always craved for life and enjoyment. He enjoys the pleasures of life: has his breakfast prepared in a very unique way, has a special recipe for his Martini, dresses in Sea Island cotton shirts and knitted black ties, thinks of sex as a pleasure, and whenever he's about to die, there's an inner voice in him that appeals to his instinct for survival: "Now he was finished. Now it was the end. Now he would fall flat and slowly fry to death. No! He must drive on, screaming, until his flesh was burned to the bone. (...) Scream, scream, scream! It helps the pain. It tells you you're alive. Go on! Go on! It can't be much longer. This isn't where you are supposed to die. Don't give up! You can't!" (Dr No, 1958). Yes, he contemplates sacrifice in Moonraker, but that doesn't means he wanted to die...

    The Bond we saw in NTTD couldn't be possibly more different to Fleming's Bond or to the cinematic Bond. He would have NEVER commit suicide in the way he did when he had a chance to escape. Goodness, Safin could have tricked him into thinking that was the virus and he could have injected him with tomato soup! Bond's ending in the Fleming's novels is far from cursed. This is how Fleming's final novel, The Man With The Golden Gun, ends: "At the same time, he knew, deep down, that love from Mary Goodnight, or from any other woman, was not enough for him. It would be like taking 'a room with a view'. For James Bond, the same view would always pall." Nothing could be less tragic than that.

    I disagree with that reply. Bond in DN didn’t give up during that tunnel sequence because he still had objectives to finish. By the end of NTTD there were none left aside from seeing to it that Safin’s island was obliterated along with himself.

    And @Seve have you seen NTTD yet?
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2021 Posts: 2,895
    What happened at the end of Layer Cake? Q shot Bond and ran off. No, no, sorry, Wishaw shot Craig and scarpered. No, hang on, it's only a film - Sidney shot XXXX and legged it. There, got it. Oh, hold up, spoilers are allowed in this thread, right?
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 718
    Seve wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    It's almost as if the last few films have been set up to flesh-out a set of artificial moral concerns.

    At some point in the last fifteen years Broccoli & Wilson decided to turn the films into "prestige" projects. Was that done primarily to retain the interest of Craig? I don't know; but certainly you don't bring in a collection of people like Fiennes, Mendes, Fukunaga, Deakins, Logan, Bardem, and so many others just to make TSWLM over & over again. They couldn't do so, even if they tried. "Artists", all ... rather than "mere" craftsmen, you might say.

    Perhaps EON was already started down that path, half-heartedly, with the hiring of Dalton and then Judi Dench. Indeed, at least two directors in the Brosnan era were or a moderately auteurist persuasion. So this now dominant tendency towards the "prestige" had been in gestation for a long time.
    IMO this is right on the money

    Except I would prefer the term "Entertainers" rather than "mere craftsman"
    Interesting article, justifying the ending of NTTD and that its closer to Fleming than I first thought. Hmmm...I may have to reconsider NTTD now. Looks like I'll have to give it another go.

    https://crimereads.com/fatalism-james-bond-series/?fbclid=IwAR2yoV7g175zYSS-rUeBY3N2qWgGIZAuLLsJtyHMBimqk4ZJX7WmGARiIpo
    Thanks for sharing

    Did you read the replies as well?

    Nicolás Suszczyk •

    I couldn't possibly disagree more. Ian Fleming's James Bond was someone who had its down moments, but he always craved for life and enjoyment. He enjoys the pleasures of life: has his breakfast prepared in a very unique way, has a special recipe for his Martini, dresses in Sea Island cotton shirts and knitted black ties, thinks of sex as a pleasure, and whenever he's about to die, there's an inner voice in him that appeals to his instinct for survival: "Now he was finished. Now it was the end. Now he would fall flat and slowly fry to death. No! He must drive on, screaming, until his flesh was burned to the bone. (...) Scream, scream, scream! It helps the pain. It tells you you're alive. Go on! Go on! It can't be much longer. This isn't where you are supposed to die. Don't give up! You can't!" (Dr No, 1958). Yes, he contemplates sacrifice in Moonraker, but that doesn't means he wanted to die...

    The Bond we saw in NTTD couldn't be possibly more different to Fleming's Bond or to the cinematic Bond. He would have NEVER commit suicide in the way he did when he had a chance to escape. Goodness, Safin could have tricked him into thinking that was the virus and he could have injected him with tomato soup! Bond's ending in the Fleming's novels is far from cursed. This is how Fleming's final novel, The Man With The Golden Gun, ends: "At the same time, he knew, deep down, that love from Mary Goodnight, or from any other woman, was not enough for him. It would be like taking 'a room with a view'. For James Bond, the same view would always pall." Nothing could be less tragic than that.

    What nonsense ... he completely misunderstood the ending of the film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Nicolás Suszczyk aka @NS_writings has been extremely vocal about his distaste for NTTD all over social media.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    And @Seve have you seen NTTD yet?
    He is suspiciously avoiding answering that question, isn't he?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,518
    Interesting correlation; those who hate the ending of NTTD have not watched NTTD? ;)
  • Posts: 6,682
    Who hasn't watched No Time to Die?

    I haven't! I haven't!

    Vxm7aD.gif
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