Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,897
    Doug Liman made The Bourne Identity because he knew he'd never get the chance to direct a Bond film. Ironic, really.
  • DrinmanDrinman New York
    Posts: 40
    Venutius wrote: »
    Doug Liman made The Bourne Identity because he knew he'd never get the chance to direct a Bond film. Ironic, really.

    It’s amazing how often a director will make a spy movie to scratch their Bond itch and it can turn out better than a lot of actual Bond movies.
  • Seve wrote: »
    Bond 26: A Momentary Lapse of Reason

    Lol, very good

    Sadly the Americans would probably lap that up
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I have little confidence in Eon and absolutely no confidence in Amazon, so I don't care what they do, if anything. I don't think there's anyone in Hollywood that is capable of making a good Bond movie anymore or even understanding the character, which the likes of Mendes, Butterworth, Fukanaga, and Waller-Bridge certainly don't. These clowns shouldn't have been anywhere near this series. They've deconstructed the character so much without building anything that I think I'd prefer if it the Bond series just goes on hiatus.

    Are you on drugs?
  • Posts: 6,682
    Are you on drugs?

    On Drax, perhaps?
  • Posts: 226
    9IW wrote: »
    Perhaps a world leader assassination spree. Bond gets sent out to kill this guy. It develops that he is under the control of an organization. Pick one. Make up a new one. Now theres pressure to capture the guy, not kill him. Bond wants to do it all. Catch him, interrogate him, kill him, then go after the organization. Maybe it develops that the PM is next. Now MI5 thinks its their show and sends out there own guy. But wait, it IS Mi5’s guy thats doing the shooting.

    Interesting idea, structuring the plot around Bond needing to pull off a bunch of assassinations of fictional world leaders could be cool.
  • I'd like to see them finally shed Purvis and Wade and bring in someone new. I'd like to see David Farr (Spooks, Hanna, The Night Manager, McMafia) get a shot at writing a script.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,053
    I'd like to see them finally shed Purvis and Wade and bring in someone new. I'd like to see David Farr (Spooks, Hanna, The Night Manager, McMafia) get a shot at writing a script.

    One can hope that Amazon does personally tell EON it’s time for them both to go. I’d like to see Anthony Horowitz take a try at a script.

    I see a lot of fans talking about bringing Irma Bunt back. I also agree with bringing her back. She’s the one villain ally in general who could be a great main villain in their own right. Two names that I can think of to play her would be Diane Lane and Winona Ryder. Not the biggest names, but they could be effective. Along with Blofeld, she is one of the top 5 villains I would bring back. The other 3 are Goldfinger, Mr. Big and Alec Trevelyan.
  • Posts: 3,275
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I'd like to see them finally shed Purvis and Wade and bring in someone new. I'd like to see David Farr (Spooks, Hanna, The Night Manager, McMafia) get a shot at writing a script.

    One can hope that Amazon does personally tell EON it’s time for them both to go. I’d like to see Anthony Horowitz take a try at a script.

    I see a lot of fans talking about bringing Irma Bunt back. I also agree with bringing her back. She’s the one villain ally in general who could be a great main villain in their own right. Two names that I can think of to play her would be Diane Lane and Winona Ryder. Not the biggest names, but they could be effective. Along with Blofeld, she is one of the top 5 villains I would bring back. The other 3 are Goldfinger, Mr. Big and Alec Trevelyan.

    I hope Amazon tell EON to do one now and take over too. I would love to see Horowitz novels adapted, but I'd also like to see the rest of the untapped Fleming material adapted PROPERLY too first. When I say properly adapted, I don't mean that woeful attempt at YOLT in NTTD.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    CountJohn wrote: »
    9IW wrote: »
    Perhaps a world leader assassination spree. Bond gets sent out to kill this guy. It develops that he is under the control of an organization. Pick one. Make up a new one. Now theres pressure to capture the guy, not kill him. Bond wants to do it all. Catch him, interrogate him, kill him, then go after the organization. Maybe it develops that the PM is next. Now MI5 thinks its their show and sends out there own guy. But wait, it IS Mi5’s guy thats doing the shooting.

    Interesting idea, structuring the plot around Bond needing to pull off a bunch of assassinations of fictional world leaders could be cool.

    It's the sort of thing I wish TMWTGG had been about.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    The only thing I want is Bond's new actor being still older than me. :D
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    matt_u wrote: »
    The only thing I want is Bond's new actor being still older than me. :D

    Ha! Yes, I wish that would still be true too :D
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I'm 31 so I still have hope lol.
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    edited October 2021 Posts: 73
    I also struggle with the idea of the next Bond being younger than me. And what really boggles my mind is that I am older than Connery was when he did DAF! But hey, still younger than Rog in LALD. :)
    I think Bunt should be played by a Tilda Swinton -style actress - someone who could ooze icy threat but also cultured charisma. Granted, that's not exactly how Fleming described her (literary Bunt was obviously modeled after Ilse Koch), but in my opinion that could work. A bit like Dench's M, but thoroughly evil.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,333
    I've just caught up on all your posts, guys. I do agree with the majority of you that the next Bond actor should be cast with the character already fully fledged. I don't know whether any of you have had the chance to read Mark Edlitz's book The Lost Adventures of James Bond: Timothy Dalton’s Third and Fourth Bond Films, and Other Unmade or Forgotten 007 Projects, but it's well worth a read if you haven't. Edlitz goes into great detail about the unmade Bond XV movie that would eventually become TLD. There were numerous treatments written incorporating his younger years, ranging from 35-page treatments to only 19-pages. Their outlines are preserved in the Special Collections Department of the University of Iowa Libraries with the papers of Richard Maibaum which Edlitz gained access to. He gives a pretty detailed overview of all the treatments and how they start and end. The longest treatment written by both Maibaum and Wilson opens with a pre-title sequence set in Austria in 1972. James Bond, who is in his mid to late twenties, is naked in bed with a beautiful woman named Elsa. Post-coitus, she wonders, “Where have you been all my life? Who are you?” Bond responds with his signature, “The name is Bond, James Bond.” During their conversation, we are informed that Bond is a Lieutenant in the Royal Navy and he’s currently serving as the Assistant Military attaché to the British Embassy in Vienna. Unbeknownst to Bond, Elsa is the fiancée of Austrian diplomat Von Rahm.

    Later, Von Rahm invites Bond to go hang gliding with him and when they are airborne, the outraged Von Rahm tries to kill Bond. There is a mid-air “dogfight” in which Von Rahm knocks Bond off his glider, sending him plummeting into Krimml Falls.

    After the main titles, we find Bond in the British Embassy in Vienna. The Ambassador scolds Bond for knocking “the living daylights” out of Von Rahm and tells Bond that not only has he been recalled but that he will also be court-martialed. In the next scene, Bond “returns to his ancestral home in the highland.” There we meet Bond’s “spinster aunt” Charmaine and his “ailing” grandfather with whom he “shoots clay pigeons on the moor.” Yes, there's definitely some shades of Skyfall in this.

    I won't give you the full transcript, but suffice to say Bond gets involved with a MI6 agent called Bart Trevor and is employed as a pilot to fly a DC3 to Singapore. He lands in the airfield of Universal Exports, which is the cover name of MI6. There he meets Felix Leiter of the CIA and Q, MI6’s weapons expert. The rest of the story is your usual action oriented caper, which finally ends on Bond being appointed to the Double-O section back in London and M turning to Bond and saying that “your next assignment will be to investigate a man in Jamaica, Dr. No.” So ends the treatment.

    What I want to show is that the previous "early Bond Years" treatments didn't involve Bond as a Royal Navy commando or any of his connections to the navy in the slightest, which I was kinda surprised by. It was only ever mentioned in passing. Their treatment mostly revolved around Bond being more of recognised pilot than an able-bodied seafarer.

    Anyway, for good reason Cubby Broccoli decided against this concept, stating fans wanted to see the agent at the “height of his powers,” not a novice. Times might have changed but I still believe Cubby was right in his assessment. Of course, there'll always be some fans that would like to see this happen, but will their enthusiasm alone be enough to make this concept a guaranteed worldwide hit? No, I don't believe it would.

    Which brings me back to Bond 26. I still believe the producers will not want to be hamstrung by casting an older actor in the role, and will go for someone much younger this time round. They could do another Lazenby, whereby they cast a mature-looking 29-year-old actor but have him already at the “height of his powers" with no need for a backstory. Personally, this is the way I'd go.
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    Posts: 73
    If they cast some 29-year old, he should look really mature! :D Someone born during the time when TLD or LTK was in cinemas would be ideal in my opinion. Connery was 31 when Dr. No was shooting, but it seems men looked older back then. Hell, my late dad in his army picture (he did his service in 1968) looks around 30 although he was 20.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Just came across this young and ambitios actor.

    media.media.de6db31b-c4c1-48d4-8410-081ceaa76a6d.original1024.jpg
  • Posts: 6,665
    Nah, looks too much like Rhys Ifans. Are you kidding me? For Bond?

    ;)

    BTW, thank you for your post @bondsum. Would love to hear more about that treatment. And I fully agree with you on the way to move forward... as if you didn't already know ;)
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,333
    Univex wrote: »
    BTW, thank you for your post @bondsum. Would love to hear more about that treatment. And I fully agree with you on the way to move forward... as if you didn't already know ;)
    We do indeed @Univex. ;)

    Just for you, I'll add a little more about the Bond XV treatment. This is what was said about the outline: Richard Maibaum and Michael Wilson came up with a clever conceit for Bond’s first mission—MI6 needs his skills as a pilot and not necessarily as a secret agent. While Bond has flown many aircraft in the previous movies, his piloting abilities have been ancillary to his main assignment. But, in Bond XV, Bond’s aviator skills are the reason that he’s been assigned to this mission. With regards to the Bond Women, there is essentially only one Bond Woman (Betje Bedwell) in the outline. The brief exceptions are his brief dalliance with Elsa in the pre-credit sequence and presumably his flirtations with the woman at his party. The treatment suggests that Bond actually falls in love with Betje or is at the least extremely taken with her. There are several scenes where their courtship is shown, including their time together in Singapore, where Bond buys her jewelry, an uncharacteristically romantic gesture for the cinematic spy. In one version of the treatment, Bond suggests that they live together. It's noted that the Bond of the novels also formed relationships with women, including Tiffany Case, that would extend beyond the missions. Much of Trevor’s advice will form the basis of Bond’s operational behavior in later missions. Most notably, Bond will rarely again fall for a woman while carrying out his mission. Bart Trevor also teaches Bond that the best way to get out of danger is through talking. It’s a technique that Bond relies on frequently. Basically, the story pretty much has Bart Trevor as his tutor and Bond as his prodigy.

    I must add that Mark Edlitz's book is well worth the purchase and essential reading for those that want to know more about story development and the unused Bond scripts.
  • Posts: 6,682
    Just came across this young and ambitios actor.

    media.media.de6db31b-c4c1-48d4-8410-081ceaa76a6d.original1024.jpg

    I know, Heike Makatsch is very talented.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just came across this young and ambitios actor.

    media.media.de6db31b-c4c1-48d4-8410-081ceaa76a6d.original1024.jpg

    I know, Heike Makatsch is very talented.

    I'd be fine with a German woman. But no blonde! Bond has dark hair!!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    bondsum wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    BTW, thank you for your post @bondsum. Would love to hear more about that treatment. And I fully agree with you on the way to move forward... as if you didn't already know ;)
    We do indeed @Univex. ;)

    Just for you, I'll add a little more about the Bond XV treatment. This is what was said about the outline: Richard Maibaum and Michael Wilson came up with a clever conceit for Bond’s first mission—MI6 needs his skills as a pilot and not necessarily as a secret agent. While Bond has flown many aircraft in the previous movies, his piloting abilities have been ancillary to his main assignment. But, in Bond XV, Bond’s aviator skills are the reason that he’s been assigned to this mission. With regards to the Bond Women, there is essentially only one Bond Woman (Betje Bedwell) in the outline. The brief exceptions are his brief dalliance with Elsa in the pre-credit sequence and presumably his flirtations with the woman at his party. The treatment suggests that Bond actually falls in love with Betje or is at the least extremely taken with her. There are several scenes where their courtship is shown, including their time together in Singapore, where Bond buys her jewelry, an uncharacteristically romantic gesture for the cinematic spy. In one version of the treatment, Bond suggests that they live together. It's noted that the Bond of the novels also formed relationships with women, including Tiffany Case, that would extend beyond the missions. Much of Trevor’s advice will form the basis of Bond’s operational behavior in later missions. Most notably, Bond will rarely again fall for a woman while carrying out his mission. Bart Trevor also teaches Bond that the best way to get out of danger is through talking. It’s a technique that Bond relies on frequently. Basically, the story pretty much has Bart Trevor as his tutor and Bond as his prodigy.

    I must add that Mark Edlitz's book is well worth the purchase and essential reading for those that want to know more about story development and the unused Bond scripts.

    I must be honest and say I never massively liked the sound of that treatment, although I think I skipped it in Lost Adventures and mostly know it from The Making Of The Living Daylights book: that version does sound slightly different.
    What I liked was that so many people lost their minds about the idea of someone else being 007 in NTTD (although for some reason those objections didn't reappear once they actually saw it - it's almost as if people get used to things and it turns out they're not as bad as they first thought :) ) whereas that Bond 15 treatment had Burton Trevor as the original 007 who Bond took the number from. I wonder if that would have been similarly inconceivable.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,333
    mtm wrote: »
    I must be honest and say I never massively liked the sound of that treatment, although I think I skipped it in Lost Adventures and mostly know it from The Making Of The Living Daylights book: that version does sound slightly different.
    What I liked was that so many people lost their minds about the idea of someone else being 007 in NTTD (although for some reason those objections didn't reappear once they actually saw it - it's almost as if people get used to things and it turns out they're not as bad as they first thought :) ) whereas that Bond 15 treatment had Burton Trevor as the original 007 who Bond took the number from. I wonder if that would have been similarly inconceivable.
    There were several different treatments for Bond XV before they got closer to what we saw in the final TLD movie. I haven't read The Making Of The Living Daylights so I don't know what was touched upon in it. Edlitz does mention a treatment about Bond taking the 007 prefix from another agent and going on a revenge mission as his first assignment. There's quite a lot of alternative versions that he talks about.

    I think the whole Nomi as 007 was misdirection to blindside us into not seeing Bond has a daughter in NTTD. The early promotional material certainly implied that Nomi would be seen as a threat to Bond, but that never materialized in the actual movie. For all her "throwing a bloody tampon in the bin" comments, her role was rather inessential.
  • Posts: 9,737
    echo wrote: »
    Unless we're going to get a
    cheesy Bond didn't really die/here's your beginning of the TMWTGG novel, Eon pretty much has to reboot after this one. Not only is he dead, so is his greatest ally and greatest adversary.

    Just no Vesper (and of course no Madeleine--although they've effectively written her off), please. I love CR, Green, and all of it, but it's been 15 years and I don't want the next Bond to have that baggage.
    In my critical mind, I know muddying the waters like that would be a mistake, but in a way, I would love it if they did the TMWTGG opening as the PTS with the new actor without making clear whether this is supposed to be a direct continuation or a completely new universe.
    There's also, of course the problem that all of the fantastic ways of trying to find out whether he is the real 007 that Fleming set up in the novel would have to be transposed to the 21st century, but I really think they could have some fun with that.
    And having MI6 be sceptical of the "new" guy and sending him on a suicide mission to prove himself would also be fun given the meta context of a new actor having to prove himself to the audience.

    that would be kind of cool
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited October 2021 Posts: 2,897
    The same series of Dallas that had the Bobby Ewing's-death-was-a-dream storyline had a mysterious stranger turn up at Southfork, who turned out to be Jock Ewing returned in secret with plastic surgery after several years of being missing, presumed dead. Let's hope that MGW hasn't been watching the re-runs...
  • Posts: 15,785
    Not so sure on the return of Irma Bunt. I think that was a blown opportunity in SP and NTTD. If Bunt were to return it should have happened during the last two Craig films. I doubt the next actor's first film will be another re-imagining of OHMSS. I'd assume he'll start his era with a completely different story, in which case it wouldn't make sense to have Bunt re-appear.
  • As @mtm, I knew the treatment from The Making Of The Living Daylights. It seems there are some differences (I didn't remember the fact that Bond was hired because of his aviator skills) but not that much neither.

    Because it was a first draft, it's difficult to judge this script and how it would have translate to the screen, but, as it was transcribed by Charles Helfenstein, it wasn't the ideal Bond's origin story, despite obvious qualities (the relationship between Bond and Burton Trevor in the first place); I think it fell flat due to its uninterested villain and, at the end, Horowitz's Forever and a Day was a better origin story.

    Again, I'm not against an origin story at all, but I think Eon won't be interested in this concept so soon after the release of IO Interactive's game.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 14,861
    bondsum wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I must be honest and say I never massively liked the sound of that treatment, although I think I skipped it in Lost Adventures and mostly know it from The Making Of The Living Daylights book: that version does sound slightly different.
    What I liked was that so many people lost their minds about the idea of someone else being 007 in NTTD (although for some reason those objections didn't reappear once they actually saw it - it's almost as if people get used to things and it turns out they're not as bad as they first thought :) ) whereas that Bond 15 treatment had Burton Trevor as the original 007 who Bond took the number from. I wonder if that would have been similarly inconceivable.
    There were several different treatments for Bond XV before they got closer to what we saw in the final TLD movie. I haven't read The Making Of The Living Daylights so I don't know what was touched upon in it. Edlitz does mention a treatment about Bond taking the 007 prefix from another agent and going on a revenge mission as his first assignment. There's quite a lot of alternative versions that he talks about.

    I think the whole Nomi as 007 was misdirection to blindside us into not seeing Bond has a daughter in NTTD. The early promotional material certainly implied that Nomi would be seen as a threat to Bond, but that never materialized in the actual movie. For all her "throwing a bloody tampon in the bin" comments, her role was rather inessential.

    I agree she was inessential (and you could remove her from the plot entirely) but I don't know about the distraction thing. Indeed they never promoted her as 007 in the marketing.
    As @mtm, I knew the treatment from The Making Of The Living Daylights. It seems there are some differences (I didn't remember the fact that Bond was hired because of his aviator skills) but not that much neither.

    Because it was a first draft, it's difficult to judge this script and how it would have translate to the screen, but, as it was transcribed by Charles Helfenstein, it wasn't the ideal Bond's origin story, despite obvious qualities (the relationship between Bond and Burton Trevor in the first place); I think it fell flat due to its uninterested villain and, at the end, Horowitz's Forever and a Day was a better origin story.

    Again, I'm not against an origin story at all, but I think Eon won't be interested in this concept so soon after the release of IO Interactive's game.

    Yeah there wasn't much of a killer story (indeed it seemed quite Indiana Jones with a lot of hidden treasure) or great ideas I was massively interested in. The alternate Dalton 3 with the robots in Hong Kong actually sounded a bit better than this one, and featured a killer stunt (although I'm not sure they could ever actually have done it because the stuntman would have died if he'd got it wrong at all!).
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,518
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,921
    bondsum wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    BTW, thank you for your post @bondsum. Would love to hear more about that treatment. And I fully agree with you on the way to move forward... as if you didn't already know ;)
    We do indeed @Univex. ;)

    Just for you, I'll add a little more about the Bond XV treatment. This is what was said about the outline: Richard Maibaum and Michael Wilson came up with a clever conceit for Bond’s first mission—MI6 needs his skills as a pilot and not necessarily as a secret agent. While Bond has flown many aircraft in the previous movies, his piloting abilities have been ancillary to his main assignment. But, in Bond XV, Bond’s aviator skills are the reason that he’s been assigned to this mission. With regards to the Bond Women, there is essentially only one Bond Woman (Betje Bedwell) in the outline. The brief exceptions are his brief dalliance with Elsa in the pre-credit sequence and presumably his flirtations with the woman at his party. The treatment suggests that Bond actually falls in love with Betje or is at the least extremely taken with her. There are several scenes where their courtship is shown, including their time together in Singapore, where Bond buys her jewelry, an uncharacteristically romantic gesture for the cinematic spy. In one version of the treatment, Bond suggests that they live together. It's noted that the Bond of the novels also formed relationships with women, including Tiffany Case, that would extend beyond the missions. Much of Trevor’s advice will form the basis of Bond’s operational behavior in later missions. Most notably, Bond will rarely again fall for a woman while carrying out his mission. Bart Trevor also teaches Bond that the best way to get out of danger is through talking. It’s a technique that Bond relies on frequently. Basically, the story pretty much has Bart Trevor as his tutor and Bond as his prodigy.

    I must add that Mark Edlitz's book is well worth the purchase and essential reading for those that want to know more about story development and the unused Bond scripts.

    Interesting. Thank you for posting.

    I think Eon often trots out scenes from previous scripts from the vault, as it were. When Safin took out Spectre in Cuba, I was reminded of one of the TSWLM treatments where the young upstarts assassinated the old guard of SPECTRE.
    mtm wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I must be honest and say I never massively liked the sound of that treatment, although I think I skipped it in Lost Adventures and mostly know it from The Making Of The Living Daylights book: that version does sound slightly different.
    What I liked was that so many people lost their minds about the idea of someone else being 007 in NTTD (although for some reason those objections didn't reappear once they actually saw it - it's almost as if people get used to things and it turns out they're not as bad as they first thought :) ) whereas that Bond 15 treatment had Burton Trevor as the original 007 who Bond took the number from. I wonder if that would have been similarly inconceivable.
    There were several different treatments for Bond XV before they got closer to what we saw in the final TLD movie. I haven't read The Making Of The Living Daylights so I don't know what was touched upon in it. Edlitz does mention a treatment about Bond taking the 007 prefix from another agent and going on a revenge mission as his first assignment. There's quite a lot of alternative versions that he talks about.

    I think the whole Nomi as 007 was misdirection to blindside us into not seeing Bond has a daughter in NTTD. The early promotional material certainly implied that Nomi would be seen as a threat to Bond, but that never materialized in the actual movie. For all her "throwing a bloody tampon in the bin" comments, her role was rather inessential.

    I agree she was inessential (and you could remove her from the plot entirely) but I don't know about the distraction thing. Indeed they never promoted her as 007 in the marketing.

    I wish they had incorporated Nomi more in the climactic battle. In fact, I wish they had shown Bond and Nomi infiltrating the base via the Garden of Death, that is, more like the novel.
  • Posts: 1,545

    Arrgh ! Can't I just get some frickin' sharks with laser beams on their frickin' heads ?!!?
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