NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    To those who want to be assured Bond is alive, I think we should pitch this to EON:

    When the iris opens up for the next Bond film, SURPRISE, it's Daniel Craig on a yellow life raft at sea.

    Bond looks directly at the camera like Lazenby and says "You were expecting someone else?"
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    The problem I have with the arc idea, especially one that’s retroactive such as this, is that it instantly boxes the next screenwriters and directors into a corner. If they’re all standalone, you can do anything, but re-introducing Blofeld and having him play Bond’s step brother? Of course you won’t be able to ignore that in the next one.
  • Posts: 12,243
    Having come to terms with the death and thinking how Fleming had it in his mind, I’m excited to go into the film tomorrow and give it a fair chance. The only way I’ll know how to really judge is to see it for myself after all. My suspicion is that I will like it more than SP but not more than the first 3 Craigs, but we’ll see. I’ll be back with in depth thoughts.
  • Posts: 526
    I’m still very conflicted about going to see it knowing the outcome. I love Daniel Craig’s Bond. I want to see him one last time....but not the way it’s going to play out.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,600
    I won't get to see NTTD until this weekend - so I won't comment. But given the ongoing debate, I got a laugh out of this :-)

  • Posts: 820
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The problem I have with the arc idea, especially one that’s retroactive such as this, is that it instantly boxes the next screenwriters and directors into a corner. If they’re all standalone, you can do anything, but re-introducing Blofeld and having him play Bond’s step brother? Of course you won’t be able to ignore that in the next one.

    I see them reintroducing everything. New continuity, new Bond, new MI6 supporting cast, new Blofeld and "take" on SPECTRE (maybe not immediately, though). The only constants I'd expect would be martinis, tuxedos, a Walther PPK, and the James Bond theme.
  • Sorry for the sensitive types who won’t be able to take a criticism of this particular picture (sorry to not be a True Fan) but all they had to do was not spell it out by showing us DC JB catch fire, wail, melt, evaporate and steam off into the upper atmosphere (to join Jaws, no he survived ), to avoid most of the controversy here (fan fiction about Dou-Dou aside).

    If they had shown DC JB, mortally wounded, stuck on this island (with previously capable and adept Mallory gurning moronically on in the background) then cut to Madeleine, Mathilde, and Ms 007 2k21 in the dingy with explosions suddenly going off on the island, even showing the aftermath but without spelling it out, ala Sessame Street, most of us would have left the theatre remembering Matera, Jamaica, Cuba and Craig’s era fondly , enjoying the filum and taking our own interpretation of the ending away with us.

    Instead we have the melting and fizzing DC ending. No room for any ambiguity there. Sorry for not being a film buff but did they really need to draw it in crayon?

    Personally there was a lot to like in this film but the way they handled the ending was off note, in the bigger picture of Bond (screen and page, Daniel Craig to one side) and given the context recently of the majority of people being constrained due to C-19.

    DC has been Bond for 15 years, rather a long time granted but many of us have been watching these films since were in short trousers in the 60s, 70s or 80s and for many of that cohort it’s hard to come to terms with JB melting and fizzing just to suit a particular lovey types aching need for an overarching narrative arc, because that’s what they do in comic book films, latterly . Oh for the days of Tim Burton, Michelle Pfiefer and a bit of bondage gear. Here’s Johnny.

    Imply Bond is dead sure, (Bond being more than just one actor), but give us a kernel (colonel/commander) of hope at the least. It means a lot. Question if anyone, True Fan or casual would have walked out of the local Odeon deflated and feeling the need to vent if there were in any way an ambiguous end to this one (that doesn’t need to be JB in a Dinghy with Paloma/Dou-Dou whilst Boris Johnson & Prince Andrew attempt a WhatsApp Video Call)

    Some great points. They could have left some ambiguity and the fact they didn't does seem to be a snub to those who have built up different expectations over several decades. And saying it's fine because that's what studios have recently been doing with comic book characters to milk every penny they can from old ideas doesn't really cut it for me.
  • Posts: 526
    How violent is NTTD compared to the other Craig Bonds? I consider Casino the most violent, visceral.
  • Posts: 3,275
    How violent is NTTD compared to the other Craig Bonds? I consider Casino the most violent, visceral.

    The action in NTTD is done fairly well. In fact, its probably some of the best action we've ever seen in a Bond film, as it puts you right in the middle of the action.

    We don't see Bond bloodied or battered like we saw in CR, but the action does feel quite violent at times.
  • Posts: 7,500
    How violent is NTTD compared to the other Craig Bonds? I consider Casino the most violent, visceral.

    Very violent. It is difficult to compare it to other films in the series, but the action is definitely heads on and Bond is extremely badass in this.
  • Posts: 526
    jobo wrote: »
    How violent is NTTD compared to the other Craig Bonds? I consider Casino the most violent, visceral.

    Very violent. It is difficult to compare it to other films in the series, but the action is definitely heads on and Bond is extremely badass in this.

    Now that sounds awesome! :D
  • Posts: 81
    Sorry for the sensitive types who won’t be able to take a criticism of this particular picture (sorry to not be a True Fan) but all they had to do was not spell it out by showing us DC JB catch fire, wail, melt, evaporate and steam off into the upper atmosphere (to join Jaws, no he survived ), to avoid most of the controversy here (fan fiction about Dou-Dou aside).

    If they had shown DC JB, mortally wounded, stuck on this island (with previously capable and adept Mallory gurning moronically on in the background) then cut to Madeleine, Mathilde, and Ms 007 2k21 in the dingy with explosions suddenly going off on the island, even showing the aftermath but without spelling it out, ala Sessame Street, most of us would have left the theatre remembering Matera, Jamaica, Cuba and Craig’s era fondly , enjoying the filum and taking our own interpretation of the ending away with us.

    Instead we have the melting and fizzing DC ending. No room for any ambiguity there. Sorry for not being a film buff but did they really need to draw it in crayon?

    Personally there was a lot to like in this film but the way they handled the ending was off note, in the bigger picture of Bond (screen and page, Daniel Craig to one side) and given the context recently of the majority of people being constrained due to C-19.

    DC has been Bond for 15 years, rather a long time granted but many of us have been watching these films since were in short trousers in the 60s, 70s or 80s and for many of that cohort it’s hard to come to terms with JB melting and fizzing just to suit a particular lovey types aching need for an overarching narrative arc, because that’s what they do in comic book films, latterly . Oh for the days of Tim Burton, Michelle Pfiefer and a bit of bondage gear. Here’s Johnny.

    Imply Bond is dead sure, (Bond being more than just one actor), but give us a kernel (colonel/commander) of hope at the least. It means a lot. Question if anyone, True Fan or casual would have walked out of the local Odeon deflated and feeling the need to vent if there were in any way an ambiguous end to this one (that doesn’t need to be JB in a Dinghy with Paloma/Dou-Dou whilst Boris Johnson & Prince Andrew attempt a WhatsApp Video Call)
    BRAVO 👏

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Snark is fun to type or say, but usually not so becoming once adorned and waved as a flag. Especially a fan flag for Us vs Them. I don't mind people disagreeing with each other civilly, or criticizing any Bond film - but I think name calling and smug snarkiness really should stay in kindergarten.

    If you have a point of criticism about the film, just make it politely. Rudeness and pitting us against each other is why some fans leave this forum.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,760
    Snark is fun to type or say, but usually not so becoming once adorned and waved as a flag. Especially a fan flag for Us vs Them. I don't mind people disagreeing with each other civilly, or criticizing any Bond film - but I think name calling and smug snarkiness really should stay in kindergarten.

    If you have a point of criticism about the film, just make it politely. Rudeness and pitting us against each other is why some fans leave this forum.

    I agree 100%.

    Works in both ways of course, if someone is critical of a Bond film, there is no reason to talk down on him/her for doing so. (I’m not referring to you btw, but I thought this was a good moment to touch upon that too.)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Oh yes, that is why I said criticize in a polite way. Criticism can spark interesting discussions that are of interest to many fans. We all love to dissect the films.
  • Posts: 7,500
    @SmiertSpionom

    It is in fact the people who like the film who have been accused of not being "true fans". I think that's appropriate to point out, in case people have misunderstood...
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    Oh yes, that is why I said criticize in a polite way. Criticism can spark interesting discussions that are of interest to many fans. We all love to dissect the films.

    Totally agree. There’s been a lot of comments on both sides that have been over the top. If we all agreed on everything then it would be a short and boring conversation. It’s much nicer when people can be polite when disagreeing though

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,459
    So if most of us can carry on sharing our thoughts and feelings in a companionable way, we can overcome the whirlpool that keeps trying to circle and pull us down into ugly fighting and rejecting of each other. Over a movie. With a character we all love and love to talk about. We can have wide ranging discussions without this boiling over.
    Onward we go ... B-)
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,760
    jobo wrote: »
    @SmiertSpionom

    It is in fact the people who like the film who have been accused of not being "true fans". I think that's appropriate to point out, in case people have misunderstood...

    True, and all of us being here is testament enough that we’re all ‘true fans’. Doesn’t have anything to do with your preferences as a fan.

    Having said that, I have read that those critical of the last film are ‘not getting it’ or are ‘close-minded’, and I’d say that’s a bit too far as well.
  • How violent is NTTD compared to the other Craig Bonds? I consider Casino the most violent, visceral.

    The film essentially puts pay to all four styles of Craig’s Bond films.

    At times the action/humour tone is like CR

    Other times it’s like SP only more interesting.

    The hand to hand fight with Primo and Ash are straight out of QOS.

    It even meta references the whole blonde Bond issue the press had back when CR was announced. When Bond says to Felix, “who’s the blonde.

    At times it’s entirely it’s one film. Such as the lab break in. Moving into the base. Safin’s scenes. The assault on the base.

    Other times it plays as a greatest hits of the Craig era.

    I wanted two things from the child. Her to have tears in her eyes when Bond is being kept at bay by Safin (have her whimper for his help).

    Bond to be able to show in some way to her that she’s his/vice versa.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Yes to using "close-minded" but I think "not getting it" simply means not understanding it the way I do. That is not necessarily said in a mean, pushy way.

    I am off to dinner now. Talk to you later. I am interested in how many times you plan to see NTTD in the theater. So let me throw that out there. I hope to see it at least 4 times. What are your plans?
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    After seeing it once I had no plans to ever watch it again but I am now thinking it may be good therapy to see it once more in the cinema.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 87
    This Sunday I am watching for the fourth time, even though the ending does not suit me at all.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,760
    Yes to using "close-minded" but I think "not getting it" simply means not understanding it the way I do. That is not necessarily said in a mean, pushy way.

    I am off to dinner now. Talk to you later. I am interested in how many times you plan to see NTTD in the theater. So let me throw that out there. I hope to see it at least 4 times. What are your plans?

    I will definitely watch it again in a week or so. Thoroughly enjoyed many aspects of it, and maybe, I hope, the ending will work better for me on a second viewing.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 7,500
    I am planning on watching 4-5 times. I have different sets of friends ans family to go with, so it is quite suitable. If I can get tickets! The interest in Norway seems to have gone through the roof. Blink, and the theaters are sold out!
  • I plan never to watch this film again.
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    I would have to go myself next time. My wife won’t even talk about the film due to the ending and my son didn’t enjoy the film at all (he isn’t a Bond fan, he comes with us through tradition rather than excitement). Other friends and family stay too far away.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    thetruth wrote: »
    I plan never to watch this film again.

    Good for you and thanks for sharing.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    edited October 2021 Posts: 573
    4 or 5 times. I see it this Friday afternoon with my brother. Have to drag my husband at some point too. After that likely alone but thats never bothered me.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    That's the good part about NTTD and the ending of SP: Let time take it's toll and forget everything about NTTD. You want Bond driving away into the sunset? Well there's the end of SP for you. I am sure you can still buy the Blu-Ray collection of CR up to SP. Just consider that the Craig run and you're done. There will be no direct sequel to NTTD. At most there might be a few allusions to it somewhere in the future. Absolutely no need to ever engage again with a film that seems to cause some here such considerable emotional pain.
    Maybe someone will even do a fan edit of just taking the few seconds of Bond and Madeleine on the road in Italy in the PTS of NTTD up until Bond says "We have all the time in the world." and sticks it on the end of SP and everyone can be happy that James Bond has found a happy ending, got the girl and will just drive around the Italian countryside for eternity because nothing bad ever happens and he will never, ever die.
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