Harry Palmer returns

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Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 26 Posts: 7,126
    Not in overcoats with snow on the ground though :D
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 14,481
    zebrafish wrote: »
    Even cold wars were fought in summer ;)

    In that case we're lucky the temperatures never got too hot then. 🔥
  • Posts: 322
    mtm wrote: »
    Gosh, wrong time of year to be shooting in Croatia if you want an icy Cold War Berlin feel!

    Much like the reasons behind day-for-night shooting, it's counterintuitively easier for productions to shoot snowy wintery scenes in the summer than when it's actually that time of year.

    This is largely due to the number of problems filming in winter can have for a production crew; like having to bring large heaters and generators, a higher risk of accidents, and more frequent equipment breakages.

    Plus, the advent of better (and cheaper) CGI means that all they have to do is add fake snow and frost to only the surfaces the actors will be interacting with and then cover the rest and replace the sky, in post-production.

    Xw312Yg.png
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 26 Posts: 7,126
    You can't CG out bright sunshine though (not on a UK TV budget). In your example they've just added some frost in, doesn't look like they've even done any colour work.

    Look at all the work they did in DAD to make 'Cuba' look bright and sunny- they even drew in shadows on the floor! And it still looks pretty miserable.
  • edited April 26 Posts: 322
    mtm wrote: »
    You can't CG out bright sunshine though (not on a UK TV budget). In your example they've just added some frost in, doesn't look like they've even done any colour work.

    Look at all the work they did in DAD to make 'Cuba' look bright and sunny- they even drew in shadows on the floor! And it still looks pretty miserable.

    Honestly, you probably could nowadays, that's how advanced and inexpensive it's become. Even if they couldn't CG out sunshine, they can still shade the set and shoot from sympathetic angles to hide the amount of light.

    The picture is just a decade old example I found after 10 seconds of googling and given that's it from a VFX reel, you're correct that it probably hasn't even been colour corrected. The final product likely looked much better.

    At the end of the day, doing things like shooting at night or in the rain or whatever, simply have so many problems that go along with them, that productions will naturally gravitate towards more controlled settings.

    Whether that actually works or not, is a matter of personal opinion, of course. I personally attribute DAD's unconvincing Cuban look, both to less sophisticated technology and just fairly shoddy direction in general.

    Hopefully, the Ipcress File will be better on both counts.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 7,126
    mtm wrote: »
    You can't CG out bright sunshine though (not on a UK TV budget). In your example they've just added some frost in, doesn't look like they've even done any colour work.

    Look at all the work they did in DAD to make 'Cuba' look bright and sunny- they even drew in shadows on the floor! And it still looks pretty miserable.

    Honestly, you probably could nowadays, that's how advanced and inexpensive it's become. Even if they couldn't CG out sunshine, they can still shade the set and shoot from sympathetic angles to hide the amount of light.

    They're not going to shade the sky, that would just look weird. They'll have to leave it sunny (you can't get rid of stark shadows, especially on faces: I would guess they'll use reflectors to fill the shadows as much as they can) and just do some colour work to add a chill to it. It won't be hugely convincing but I'm sure it'll look mostly okay. I bet you anything they were hoping for overcast conditions though! :)


  • Posts: 417
    Don't actors wearing winter clothes in the summer sweat, and look wrong for the story ?
  • edited April 26 Posts: 322
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    You can't CG out bright sunshine though (not on a UK TV budget). In your example they've just added some frost in, doesn't look like they've even done any colour work.

    Look at all the work they did in DAD to make 'Cuba' look bright and sunny- they even drew in shadows on the floor! And it still looks pretty miserable.

    Honestly, you probably could nowadays, that's how advanced and inexpensive it's become. Even if they couldn't CG out sunshine, they can still shade the set and shoot from sympathetic angles to hide the amount of light.

    They're not going to shade the sky, that would just look weird. They'll have to leave it sunny (you can't get rid of stark shadows, especially on faces: I would guess they'll use reflectors to fill the shadows as much as they can) and just do some colour work to add a chill to it. It won't be hugely convincing but I'm sure it'll look mostly okay. I bet you anything they were hoping for overcast conditions though! :)


    I meant physically shade the set by putting up screens and other objects to block the light, not painting out a light source in post-production.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 26 Posts: 7,126
    Since62 wrote: »
    Don't actors wearing winter clothes in the summer sweat, and look wrong for the story ?

    I'd love to know how they avoid that. I remember happening across a shoot for an episode of Doctor Who and it was the hottest day of the year: I was in a vest and shorts and Peter Capaldi was running around in his coast and waistcoat. When he took his coat off you could see his shirt was pretty much stuck to him, but I don't know how they managed to make his face look normal.
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    You can't CG out bright sunshine though (not on a UK TV budget). In your example they've just added some frost in, doesn't look like they've even done any colour work.

    Look at all the work they did in DAD to make 'Cuba' look bright and sunny- they even drew in shadows on the floor! And it still looks pretty miserable.

    Honestly, you probably could nowadays, that's how advanced and inexpensive it's become. Even if they couldn't CG out sunshine, they can still shade the set and shoot from sympathetic angles to hide the amount of light.

    They're not going to shade the sky, that would just look weird. They'll have to leave it sunny (you can't get rid of stark shadows, especially on faces: I would guess they'll use reflectors to fill the shadows as much as they can) and just do some colour work to add a chill to it. It won't be hugely convincing but I'm sure it'll look mostly okay. I bet you anything they were hoping for overcast conditions though! :)


    I meant physically shade the set by putting up screens and other objects to block the light, there's still no convincing way to fully paint out a light source in post-production.

    I know: that's what I'm saying- it would look weird. You'd be able to tell there's something over the actors. Your eye can read how a shadow is being cast.
  • Posts: 417
    Perhaps because he wassssss ACTING ! A good actor can make themselves sweat everywhere except the fact, head and hands...that's my new theory. It's mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 7,126
    Since62 wrote: »
    Perhaps because he wassssss ACTING ! A good actor can make themselves sweat everywhere except the fact, head and hands...that's my new theory. It's mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.

    Haha! I can go with that. Any actor who is visibly sweating just isn't a good enough actor :D
  • edited April 26 Posts: 322
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Don't actors wearing winter clothes in the summer sweat, and look wrong for the story ?

    I'd love to know how they avoid that. I remember happening across a shoot for an episode of Doctor Who and it was the hottest day of the year: I was in a vest and shorts and Peter Capaldi was running around in his coast and waistcoat. When he took his coat off you could see his shirt was pretty much stuck to him, but I don't know how they managed to make his face look normal.
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    You can't CG out bright sunshine though (not on a UK TV budget). In your example they've just added some frost in, doesn't look like they've even done any colour work.

    Look at all the work they did in DAD to make 'Cuba' look bright and sunny- they even drew in shadows on the floor! And it still looks pretty miserable.

    Honestly, you probably could nowadays, that's how advanced and inexpensive it's become. Even if they couldn't CG out sunshine, they can still shade the set and shoot from sympathetic angles to hide the amount of light.

    They're not going to shade the sky, that would just look weird. They'll have to leave it sunny (you can't get rid of stark shadows, especially on faces: I would guess they'll use reflectors to fill the shadows as much as they can) and just do some colour work to add a chill to it. It won't be hugely convincing but I'm sure it'll look mostly okay. I bet you anything they were hoping for overcast conditions though! :)


    I meant physically shade the set by putting up screens and other objects to block the light, there's still no convincing way to fully paint out a light source in post-production.

    I know: that's what I'm saying- it would look weird. You'd be able to tell there's something over the actors. Your eye can read how a shadow is being cast.

    Ah, I see. I thought you meant painting out the shade, which some productions have done with CG before, my mistake. Sorry.

    I'm assuming they might be trying to go for a crisp early winter, type of thing. Careful application of makeup, lighting, and camera angles will do a lot to sell it.

    Of course, how well it works is up to how much time, effort, and money they ultimately put into it.

    The warm sunny weather will certainly be a boon for when they shoot the Lebanon and Hawaii scenes, which I think was the main reason why they opted for a summer shoot.
  • Posts: 417
    Certainly seems easier to fake winter than to fake summer, assuming all the filming will occur over a relatively brief period and all in the same hemisphere.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 26 Posts: 7,126
    Also there's another bit of a subconscious thing with the sun in wintry scenes: although sometimes you do get sunny snowy days, we know it looks wrong if the sun is high in the sky. You might not be able to put your finger on it, but you'll know it doesn't quite feel right.

    As you say though, easier to fake winter than it is to fake summer.
  • edited April 26 Posts: 322
    mtm wrote: »
    Also there's another bit of a subconscious thing with the sun in wintry scenes: although sometimes you do get sunny snowy days, we know it looks wrong if the sun is high in the sky. You might not be able to put your finger on it, but you'll know it doesn't quite feel right.

    As you say though, easier to fake winter than it is to fake summer.

    Good point about the sun.

    Hopefully, they'll put some thought into the camera angles and shot placement and not just leave it up to the post-production people to pick up the slack, which happens all too often.

    :Edit: Here's a fun little Bond connection I hadn't realized before.
  • Posts: 417
    Picture Number 1, top left: Rami tells Lucy the evil plan in the works by Safin. Note her concerned expression.

    Picture Number 2, top right: Lucy grimaces, though beautifully, with her hand raised involuntarily, upon hearing Safin's background with Dr. Swann.

    Picture Number 3, bottom left: Lucy revolted by the effects Safin's plan has on people, such as in the scene in the Trailer when victims drop dead all around Bond.

    Picture Number 4, bottom right: Rami tells her Safin wins, and Bond, Swann and the little girl, Nomi and even Leiter all die by Safin's plan or hand, and Safin gets to keep the Aston Martins...all the Aston Martins...and Lucy smiles and laughs, saying "Nahhh, you're pulling my leg !" as Rami covers his mouth to hide that he's laughing, as well. Throwing the Astons in was definitely too much.
  • Posts: 417
    Picture Number 1, top left: Lucy asks Rami to tell her once and for all whether he portrays Dr. No in NTTD.

    Picture Number 2, top right: Lucy acting out a scene she envisions where Dr. No gets his prosthetic hands.

    Picture Number 3, bottom left: Lucy swears that she'll never tell anyone else whether Rami plays Dr. No, even pain of torture. She makes torture face.

    Picture Number 4, bottom right: Rami answers, Lucy rather uncertain whether he really is giving her the accurate response...and realizes she never will know until NTTD is released.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 7,126
    Ah great. I must say she seems to be one of these people who's become famous without me spotting it. I've not seen anything she's been in, I don't know her name and I wouldn't recognise her in the street.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 150
    I think I mainly know her from the Netflix folk-horror movie Apostle.
  • edited May 29 Posts: 322
    Looks like the show is definitely embracing the more global scope of the original book, at least, if this report is to be believed.

    "Croatia has become one of the world's most popular international filming locations and 2021 is shaping up to be one its busiest years with 20 international projects already announced by May.

    One of these is ITV Studios and Altitude Television's spy series, The Iperess File, which is filming in Zagreb, Rijeka and Split from 22 April to mid-June. John Hodge has written the drama with James Watkins set to direct all six episodes.

    "After our great experience with McMafia, with James Watkins directing, we are returning to Croatia for the production of The Iperess File with the same director," says Paul Ritchie, the series' producer. "We are once more taking advantage of Croatian locations, which will stand for seven different worldwide countries and territories."



    https://www.kftv.com/news/2021/05/27/why-netflix-lionsgate-itv-and-others-are-being-drawn-to-croatia

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 7,126
    That’s fun: it does seem to be a versatile location. I remember when Doctor Who used it and it was an effective double for the south of France and Venice.
  • edited May 29 Posts: 322
    mtm wrote: »
    That’s fun: it does seem to be a versatile location. I remember when Doctor Who used it and it was an effective double for the south of France and Venice.

    Yes, it also worked very well on Game of Thrones, too. It's got a very unique combination of Mediterranean-looking cities by the coast, and Northern European mixed with USSR-style architecture in the major cities.

    If they are wrapping up filming for the entire show by mid-June (and not just the Croatian filming), the show could very well be airing on tv by the end of the year, which would be nice.
  • Posts: 322
    Apparently, the show finished filming on the 13th of June, so I wouldn't rule out a potential release this year.

    Also, I found some more photos of the Croatian shoot.

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    iNK0QqB.jpg
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 7,126
    Great stuff! It's all gone a bit Funeral in Berlin :D
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 14,481
    mtm wrote: »
    Great stuff! It's all gone a bit Funeral in Berlin :D

    True. Not a bad thing in my book. ;)
  • Posts: 1,112
    As much as I am a fan of the Ipcress film, I've never read the book. How does Berlin fit in?
  • edited June 28 Posts: 322
    delfloria wrote: »
    As much as I am a fan of the Ipcress film, I've never read the book. How does Berlin fit in?

    Well, it doesn't really. Berlin is never once brought up in the books.

    However, it appears that this show will be using the film character's backstory of being caught selling black market goods in Berlin and then blackmailed into the security forces to avoid jail.

    But judging from the press release where they said that the show would use Croatia to double for seven different countries, it does seem like they'll be staying truer to the book's story than the film.

    Unlike the 1965 movie, the book takes place not just in London, but in locales all over the world like Hawaii and Beirut.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 28 Posts: 14,481
    That sounds like an interesting approach then. Kind of like a Harry Palmer origin story, at least in part anyway.

    I recall the mentions of Palmer's criminal past in the 1965 film of The Ipcress File so nice to see that they are going to build on that in this new TV production of the novel. The threat of a return to a military prison is ever present in the original 1960s Palmer films and Colonel Ross uses Palmer's criminal past to blackmail him into working for British Intelligence at every opportunity! As Palmer says at one point Ross has him "by the short hairs for it". So it's not so much loyalty to Britain and the Crown that keep Palmer in check but rather his past which has a nasty way of catching up with him. It all makes for an interesting dynamic and is of course totally removed from the Bond of the novels and films who was much more patriotic in nature.
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