Harry Palmer returns

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  • Posts: 1,036
    Watched Funeral last night, having not watched it in years, and was pleasantly reassured about what a terrific film it is. Lacks the stylized camera work as Ipcress but captured the cold world environment so well. They have a high bar to reach regarding getting the casting right. Interested to see how Cole reinvents the character.
  • mtm wrote: »
    In a way, I'm glad they picked a very un-Caine actor because it means they might be trying to go in a different direction.

    Yes that might work. If they stick too closely to Caine then they’re just setting themselves up to fail, really.

    I might be a lone voice here but overall I think that the film version of Funeral in Berlin is actually better than the book. The climax to the novel takes place during a fireworks night in London (really!) and I think that moving the climax to Berlin was a good decision.

    Must admit I've never read it as I've never really found Deighton all that gripping, and I just like the feel and look of the movie too much to bother with trying to imagine it! :) Plus Caine says the lines better than my head does :D

    It is a shame that this new TV show won't ever be able to do 60s Berlin as well as Funeral did of course. Although it might be able to do a goodish job of East Berlin, it's going to be tough for Croatia to get that lovely concrete modernism feel of the city that's so evocative. Maybe some of Liverpool can, I don't know. There's the cathedral of course.

    Yeah, Berlin will be tough to recreate but I'm guessing a mixture of both locations plus a healthy dose of CGI should do the trick.

    I'm actually a bit surprised that they aren't going to make the whole show in Berlin considering how good the German tax credits are.

    Of course, if they are sticking closer to the book then Croatia does make a bit more sense as it's got to also double for Hungary, Beirut, and Hawaii.
  • edited December 2020 Posts: 14,894
    mtm wrote: »
    This news has got me very excited! I love both the novel and the film (the film is one of my all time favourites), and I'm very curious how they'll adapt the story for TV.

    Yeah, from the synopsis alone it sounds like they'll be adding to the book (this sounds like we'll see the origin story that the books mention), but then the film wasn't exactly faithful so I think there's no problem with another version.
    I quite like that they've stuck to the Palmer name though. I wonder if he'll get the glasses! :)

    Indeed, there's always room for another version (though I doubt it will be as good as the film!). The advantage with a TV adaption, is that they can flesh out the story quite a bit, and that's really interesting.

    Given that about 40% of it is going to be shot on location overseas, it looks like they may be sticking to the novel a little more closely. Unlike the film, 99% of it didn't take place in London.

    Good point – and it's better if they try to be different from the film by sticking closer to the book. Easier to do with a TV adaptation too.
    In a way, I'm glad they picked a very un-Caine actor because it means they might be trying to go in a different direction.

    Yes that might work. If they stick too closely to Caine then they’re just setting themselves up to fail, really.

    I might be a lone voice here but overall I think that the film version of Funeral in Berlin is actually better than the book. The climax to the novel takes place during a fireworks night in London (really!) and I think that moving the climax to Berlin was a good decision.

    Agree. The book is terrific too, and I do enjoy that fireworks night ending, but the film did better by having the climax take place in Berlin.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2020 Posts: 5,535
    delfloria wrote: »
    Watched Funeral last night, having not watched it in years, and was pleasantly reassured about what a terrific film it is. Lacks the stylized camera work as Ipcress but captured the cold world environment so well. They have a high bar to reach regarding getting the casting right. Interested to see how Cole reinvents the character.

    If I'm honest the camerawork in Ipcress annoys me a bit; it really draws attention to itself. It's true that you couldn't call Funeral a beautiful film, but I do tend to prefer it. And the plot is so wonderfully clever.

    mtm wrote: »
    This news has got me very excited! I love both the novel and the film (the film is one of my all time favourites), and I'm very curious how they'll adapt the story for TV.

    Yeah, from the synopsis alone it sounds like they'll be adding to the book (this sounds like we'll see the origin story that the books mention), but then the film wasn't exactly faithful so I think there's no problem with another version.
    I quite like that they've stuck to the Palmer name though. I wonder if he'll get the glasses! :)

    Indeed, there's always room for another version (though I doubt it will be as good as the film!). The advantage with a TV adaption, is that they can flesh out the story quite a bit, and that's really interesting.

    Given that about 40% of it is going to be shot on location overseas, it looks like they may be sticking to the novel a little more closely. Unlike the film, 99% of it didn't take place in London.

    Good point – and it's better if they try to be different from the film by sticking closer to the book. Easier to do with a TV adaptation too.

    I never got around to the radio adaptation with Ian Hart as the protagonist- I'm guessing that was more faithful. Did you hear it?
    In a way, I'm glad they picked a very un-Caine actor because it means they might be trying to go in a different direction.

    Yes that might work. If they stick too closely to Caine then they’re just setting themselves up to fail, really.

    I might be a lone voice here but overall I think that the film version of Funeral in Berlin is actually better than the book. The climax to the novel takes place during a fireworks night in London (really!) and I think that moving the climax to Berlin was a good decision.

    Agree. The book is terrific too, and I do enjoy that fireworks night ending, but the film did better by having the climax take place in Berlin.

    Fireworks night is a lovely idea for a climax though, it'd be great to see that worked in to something.
  • mtm wrote: »
    I never got around to the radio adaptation with Ian Hart as the protagonist- I'm guessing that was more faithful.

    I haven't listened to it in a few years but I remember it being quite good and mostly faithful to the book, although a number of elements had to be shortened and or cut because of the 90-minute runtime.

    If you've ever listened to any of BBC Radio 4 adaptations of the James Bonds novels you'll know what to expect.
  • edited December 2020 Posts: 14,894
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    This news has got me very excited! I love both the novel and the film (the film is one of my all time favourites), and I'm very curious how they'll adapt the story for TV.

    Yeah, from the synopsis alone it sounds like they'll be adding to the book (this sounds like we'll see the origin story that the books mention), but then the film wasn't exactly faithful so I think there's no problem with another version.
    I quite like that they've stuck to the Palmer name though. I wonder if he'll get the glasses! :)

    Indeed, there's always room for another version (though I doubt it will be as good as the film!). The advantage with a TV adaption, is that they can flesh out the story quite a bit, and that's really interesting.

    Given that about 40% of it is going to be shot on location overseas, it looks like they may be sticking to the novel a little more closely. Unlike the film, 99% of it didn't take place in London.

    Good point – and it's better if they try to be different from the film by sticking closer to the book. Easier to do with a TV adaptation too.

    I never got around to the radio adaptation with Ian Hart as the protagonist- I'm guessing that was more faithful. Did you hear it?

    Didn't know there was a radio adaptation of the book! Will have to try and find it. :-)
    mtm wrote: »
    In a way, I'm glad they picked a very un-Caine actor because it means they might be trying to go in a different direction.

    Yes that might work. If they stick too closely to Caine then they’re just setting themselves up to fail, really.

    I might be a lone voice here but overall I think that the film version of Funeral in Berlin is actually better than the book. The climax to the novel takes place during a fireworks night in London (really!) and I think that moving the climax to Berlin was a good decision.

    Agree. The book is terrific too, and I do enjoy that fireworks night ending, but the film did better by having the climax take place in Berlin.

    Fireworks night is a lovely idea for a climax though, it'd be great to see that worked in to something.

    Yes, although I prefer the movie climax in Berlin, the fireworks part wasn't a bad one at all. It could easily be rewritten to be fitted into somewhere else in the story, should Funeral in Berlin be adapted too.
  • Posts: 100
    Dang it....and here I’ve been for years trying to bash together a way to make a new Palmer film with Caine....

    It seems they’re trying to do a miniseries version of the novel which is quite different and so convoluted that it’s hard to read and the film script was famously burned by Sidney J Furie on set and they then made it up as they went along.

    IPCRESS as a film I think is the best spy film ever made bar none. It’s an obsession of mine and every facet is riveting. Barry’s score is a candidate for his career masterpiece. I think it’s Michael’s signature role and the influx of Bond crew members only helps the film be a masterpiece.
    I find it still fascinating that Harry Saltzman produced these films and it makes more sense when you know that his “taking the lead” Bonds are all similarly down to earth.
    Funeral in Berlin is a supremely underrated great spy film and proof to all the naysayers that Guy Hamilton was far more than the light touch man he’s often accused of being.
    Billion Dollar Brain is an acid trip and I love it despite it going Ken Russell mode and screwing over the narrative. In most ways by doing this it makes the viewer as confused as Harry Palmer is!!

    We never got the fourth film which likely would have had another lead actor since Caine was ready to move on and Saltzman looked for other actors.

    The two made for Tv films are rather bad but the character has so much promise that I still hope to somehow see Caine come back to the role.
  • Posts: 1,036
    BTW anyone else notice that the female lead in FIB was dubbed with Honey Ryder's voice.
  • edited February 11 Posts: 269
    Filming has started in Liverpool. The show will be six episodes long with each episode being around an hour in length.

    https://www.theknowledgeonline.com/the-knowledge-bulletin/post/2021/02/09/filming-begins-in-liverpool-on-the-ipcress-file-
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 5,535
    Cool, thanks for that, that seems nice and quick.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Cool, thanks for that, that seems nice and quick.

    No problem.

    Depending on how much post-production it will need, there's a solid chance it might even release this year.
  • Posts: 1,036
    I just realized I EXPECT Palmer to be wearing horn rimmed glasses. Will it still be a Harry Palmer film if the actor doesn't wear them?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 5,535
    delfloria wrote: »
    I just realized I EXPECT Palmer to be wearing horn rimmed glasses. Will it still be a Harry Palmer film if the actor doesn't wear them?

    It will be interesting to see! 'Harry Palmer' is so far a character created exclusively for the movies and played so far only by Michael Caine: the protagonist in the books didn't have a name. So I think it's possible he might keep a bit of the original look including the glasses.
    I'll be interested to see if they pay for the John Barry theme from Ipcress too. That's probably less likely, but if Palmer had a theme tune it's that.
  • edited February 16 Posts: 269
    mtm wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I just realized I EXPECT Palmer to be wearing horn rimmed glasses. Will it still be a Harry Palmer film if the actor doesn't wear them?

    It will be interesting to see! 'Harry Palmer' is so far a character created exclusively for the movies and played so far only by Michael Caine: the protagonist in the books didn't have a name. So I think it's possible he might keep a bit of the original look including the glasses.
    I'll be interested to see if they pay for the John Barry theme from Ipcress too. That's probably less likely, but if Palmer had a theme tune it's that.

    Looks like he's keeping the glasses.
    0_JS228433921.jpg
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 5,535
    Marvellous! :)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Still waiting for the Jena Malone Batwoman movie that's never going to be made.Moderator
    Posts: 11,702
    That's reassuring at least.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 5,535
    Fingers crossed for this one.

    NINTCHDBPICT000635741565.jpg?strip=all&w=715
  • Posts: 14,894
    Can't wait to see more of this!
  • I have a feeling this is either going to be very good or very bad.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 5,535
    Yeah I know what you mean: ITV drama can be variable. Keeping my fingers crossed! :)
  • weboffearweboffear Scotland
    Posts: 31
    I'm confused by this are they doing and adaptation of the novel or the film ?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 17 Posts: 5,535
    weboffear wrote: »
    I'm confused by this are they doing and adaptation of the novel or the film ?

    A bit of both I guess. Sounds like the plot is slightly more faithful to the novel than the film was (in places) but obviously Palmer himself comes from the film.
    I'm interested to know who actually owns the character of Harry Palmer: I think Deighton was close to the movie and did get some ownership of Harry (he seemed to have to agree to the 90s movies) but you would have thought the film company who invented him would own him? But then obviously by the 90s TV movie things someone has got the rights there, and there was even a time after that when Caine was trying to get a new movie off the ground ('Cold War Requiem') and seemed to indicate that he owned Harry Palmer himself at that point.
  • edited February 17 Posts: 269
    mtm wrote: »
    weboffear wrote: »
    I'm confused by this are they doing and adaptation of the novel or the film ?

    A bit of both I guess. Sounds like the plot is slightly more faithful to the novel than the film was (in places) but obviously Palmer himself comes from the film.
    I'm interested to know who actually owns the character of Harry Palmer: I think Deighton was close to the movie and did get some ownership of Harry (he seemed to have to agree to the 90s movies) but you would have thought the film company who invented him would own him? But then obviously by the 90s TV movie things someone has got the rights there, and there was even a time after that when Caine was trying to get a new movie off the ground ('Cold War Requiem') and seemed to indicate that he owned Harry Palmer himself at that point.

    I don't think using the Harry Palmer character or visual/plot-specific elements from the film series was ever a problem for ITV as they've always owned the rights to the films.

    After The Rank Organization was shut down, it was subsequently bought by Charlton Communications, who were themselves later bought by Granada, who then merged with several other companies to form ITV plc.

    Really, the biggest difference between the film and the book is that the film takes place entirely within London, while the book features Palmer going to places as far-flung as Beirut, Hungary, and Hawaii.

    (I imagine that's what the Croatian filming is for, as it has a lot of warm sunny beaches, communist architecture, and European-style streets that could easily mimic the French-colonial architecture of Lebanon.)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 17 Posts: 5,535
    mtm wrote: »
    weboffear wrote: »
    I'm confused by this are they doing and adaptation of the novel or the film ?

    A bit of both I guess. Sounds like the plot is slightly more faithful to the novel than the film was (in places) but obviously Palmer himself comes from the film.
    I'm interested to know who actually owns the character of Harry Palmer: I think Deighton was close to the movie and did get some ownership of Harry (he seemed to have to agree to the 90s movies) but you would have thought the film company who invented him would own him? But then obviously by the 90s TV movie things someone has got the rights there, and there was even a time after that when Caine was trying to get a new movie off the ground ('Cold War Requiem') and seemed to indicate that he owned Harry Palmer himself at that point.

    I don't think using the Harry Palmer character or visual/plot-specific elements from the film series was ever a problem for ITV as they've always owned the rights to the films.

    After The Rank Organization was shut down, it was subsequently bought by Charlton Communications, who were themselves later bought by Granada, who then merged with several other companies to form ITV plc.

    Ah that's very interesting! Thanks.

    I wonder if they might even use the Barry theme? Although I would guess that would still require an extra PRS payment or somesuch.
    Really, the biggest difference between the film and the book is that the film takes place entirely within London, while the book features Palmer going to places as far-flung as Beirut, Hungary, and Hawaii.

    (I imagine that's what the Croatian filming is for, as it has a lot of warm sunny beaches, communist architecture, and European-style streets that could easily mimic the French-colonial architecture of Lebanon.)

    Well the new one is partially set in Berlin, which I would guess is replacing Beirut.
  • edited February 17 Posts: 269
    mtm wrote: »
    I wonder if they might even use the Barry theme? Although I would guess that would still require an extra PRS payment or somesuch.

    I imagine they likely would have to pay some kind of fee to the Barry estate to use it, though as it's not a particularly famous piece of music, they might decide to just comission their own.

    My ideal choice to score this would probably be someone like Daniel Pemberton, though he may be too expensive for TV, now.
    mtm wrote: »
    Well the new one is partially set in Berlin, which I would guess is replacing Beirut.

    Quite possibly. Or they might be showing flashbacks to Harry Palmer's criminal past in Berlin as I believe that's what his superiors use to blackmail him into working for them.

    I don't remember if that was a movie-specific element, though.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 17 Posts: 5,535
    mtm wrote: »
    I wonder if they might even use the Barry theme? Although I would guess that would still require an extra PRS payment or somesuch.

    I imagine they likely would have to pay some kind of fee to the Barry estate to use it, though as it's not a particularly famous piece of music, they might decide to just comission their own.

    My ideal choice to score this would probably be someone like Daniel Pemberton, though he may be too expensive for TV, now.

    He'd be wonderful, yes. His Dirk Gently theme is extremely Ipcress!
    mtm wrote: »
    Well the new one is partially set in Berlin, which I would guess is replacing Beirut.

    Quite possibly. Or they might be showing flashbacks to Harry Palmer's criminal past in Berlin as I believe that's what his superiors use to blackmail him into working for them.

    I don't remember if that was a movie-specific element, though.

    Maybe, yes.
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