Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,761
    Mallory wrote: »
    @Ludovico I absolutely agree with that, and when looking back over the Craig era (as that is the one we’re currently in), its the little character moments that stick with me the most.

    Casino Royale

    - Bond washing himself up after the Obanno stairwell fight
    - Bond and Vesper in the shower scene
    - Him coming to terms with her death after trying to revive her in Venice

    Quantum of Solace

    - Mathis and Bond chatting on the plane
    - Bond and Camille in the sink hole
    - Bond and Camille’s final chat in the car.

    Skyfall

    - Bond lazing around on the beach, a broken man.
    - Bond’s evaluation, and subsequent failing
    - Bond and M’s journey to Skyfall

    Spectre

    - Bond and Swann in the hotel room.


    For all the wizz bang wallop pyrotechnics of the Craig era, its the character moments tha reosnate with me the most.

    Quite right. I'd also add the scene in Talamone where Bond re-approaches Mathis. Love Mathis's girlfriend's wine remark in Italian.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,342
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    GF is a truly great film, but I think it being held up as the end-all, be-all greatest and definitive Bond film for far too long has led to a great deal of backlash, which has affected how many of us rank it. It’s just a shame that so many put up on a pedestal, there by ignoring other entries that are as good or better. For me, I love CR, TB, DN, FRWL and maybe OHMSS more than GF. I still rank it very highly, but I can’t really say the same about its director.
    GF is a truly great film, but I think it being held up as the end-all, be-all greatest and definitive Bond film for far too long has led to a great deal of backlash, which has affected how many of us rank it. It’s just a shame that so many put up on a pedestal, there by ignoring other entries that are as good or better. For me, I love CR, TB, DN, FRWL and maybe OHMSS more than GF. I still rank it very highly, but I can’t really say the same about its director.

    There's quite a few I like more. I have never felt that is the earth shattering classic, it's meant to be. Good, for sure but not great.

    I like all the films you listed more. Add TSWLM, FYEO and maybe even (don't lynch me) GE and TLD..

    I personally feel TSWLM is way overrated. It’s a really damn good film, but better than the already too-highly-vaunted GF? Not in a million years (see, I’m the one they’ll hang).

    You'll both be spared my friends ;) . I prefer about 11 Bond films over CR and about 4 or 5 more over SF.

    11 bond films over CR is a lot.
    Which ones ?
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,761
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    GF is a truly great film, but I think it being held up as the end-all, be-all greatest and definitive Bond film for far too long has led to a great deal of backlash, which has affected how many of us rank it. It’s just a shame that so many put up on a pedestal, there by ignoring other entries that are as good or better. For me, I love CR, TB, DN, FRWL and maybe OHMSS more than GF. I still rank it very highly, but I can’t really say the same about its director.
    GF is a truly great film, but I think it being held up as the end-all, be-all greatest and definitive Bond film for far too long has led to a great deal of backlash, which has affected how many of us rank it. It’s just a shame that so many put up on a pedestal, there by ignoring other entries that are as good or better. For me, I love CR, TB, DN, FRWL and maybe OHMSS more than GF. I still rank it very highly, but I can’t really say the same about its director.

    There's quite a few I like more. I have never felt that is the earth shattering classic, it's meant to be. Good, for sure but not great.

    I like all the films you listed more. Add TSWLM, FYEO and maybe even (don't lynch me) GE and TLD..

    I personally feel TSWLM is way overrated. It’s a really damn good film, but better than the already too-highly-vaunted GF? Not in a million years (see, I’m the one they’ll hang).

    You'll both be spared my friends ;) . I prefer about 11 Bond films over CR and about 4 or 5 more over SF.

    11 bond films over CR is a lot.
    Which ones ?

    FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, TSWLM, OP, TLD, LTK, GE and QOS.

    That's actually ten X_X
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,342
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    GF is a truly great film, but I think it being held up as the end-all, be-all greatest and definitive Bond film for far too long has led to a great deal of backlash, which has affected how many of us rank it. It’s just a shame that so many put up on a pedestal, there by ignoring other entries that are as good or better. For me, I love CR, TB, DN, FRWL and maybe OHMSS more than GF. I still rank it very highly, but I can’t really say the same about its director.
    GF is a truly great film, but I think it being held up as the end-all, be-all greatest and definitive Bond film for far too long has led to a great deal of backlash, which has affected how many of us rank it. It’s just a shame that so many put up on a pedestal, there by ignoring other entries that are as good or better. For me, I love CR, TB, DN, FRWL and maybe OHMSS more than GF. I still rank it very highly, but I can’t really say the same about its director.

    There's quite a few I like more. I have never felt that is the earth shattering classic, it's meant to be. Good, for sure but not great.

    I like all the films you listed more. Add TSWLM, FYEO and maybe even (don't lynch me) GE and TLD..

    I personally feel TSWLM is way overrated. It’s a really damn good film, but better than the already too-highly-vaunted GF? Not in a million years (see, I’m the one they’ll hang).

    You'll both be spared my friends ;) . I prefer about 11 Bond films over CR and about 4 or 5 more over SF.

    11 bond films over CR is a lot.
    Which ones ?

    FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, TSWLM, OP, TLD, LTK, GE and QOS.

    That's actually ten X_X

    QOS better than CR, very controversial.
    I have QOS last in my list ;))
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    edited September 2020 Posts: 984
    I've said this before on another, thread, but I'm not sure if it's controversial. There is a remarkable symmetry between Brosnan and Craig's Bond runs, NTTD not withstanding.

    Both actors have, at least in my opinion, had one classic (CR, GE) both had one good, but not great, (TND, SF) and both have had two bottom dweller efforts (QOS, SP, TWINE, DAD).

    The symmetry goes further. Both of their first films are reboots(admittedly GE's is much softer) and both are widely considered to be their best films.

    Both of their second films suffered script problems, are plot lite, crash bang heavy, and both had very contemporary styled action (Bourne-esq in QOS. John Woo- esque in TND climax).

    Both of there third films go heavier on plot, and both feature a personal grudge against M.

    Finally, both their fourth films have huge identity crisis's. Both have a villain with two names, also who are both believed by Bond to be deceased. Both have largely soulless, but big scale action.

    Rather a lot of similarity there, I'm sure you will agree.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,053
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I've said this before on another, thread, but I'm not sure if it's controversial. There is a remarkable symmetry between Brosnan and Craig's Bond runs, NTTD not withstanding.

    Both actors have, at least in my opinion, had one classic (CR, GE) both had one good, but not great, (TND, SF) and both have had two bottom dweller efforts (QOS, SP, TWINE, DAD).

    The symmetry goes further. Both of their first films are reboots(admittedly GE's is much softer) and both are widely considered to be their best films.

    Both of their second films suffered script problems, are plot lite, crash bang heavy, and both had very contemporary styled action (Bourne-esq in QOS. John Woo- esque in TND climax).

    Both of there third films go heavier on plot, and both feature a personal grudge against M.

    Finally, both their fourth films have huge identity crisis's. Both have a villain with two names, also who are both believed by Bond to be deceased. Both have largely soulless, but big scale action.

    Rather a lot of similarity there, I'm sure you will agree.

    Plus they have a video game that’s better than most of their movies: Everything or Nothing for PB, Bloodstone for DC.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    For me Craig has had two all time greats with CR and SF, with the latter being his best. Certainly a step up from Brosnan’s run, which I only regard GE being the good one.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I've said this before on another, thread, but I'm not sure if it's controversial. There is a remarkable symmetry between Brosnan and Craig's Bond runs, NTTD not withstanding.

    Both actors have, at least in my opinion, had one classic (CR, GE) both had one good, but not great, (TND, SF) and both have had two bottom dweller efforts (QOS, SP, TWINE, DAD).

    The symmetry goes further. Both of their first films are reboots(admittedly GE's is much softer) and both are widely considered to be their best films.

    Both of their second films suffered script problems, are plot lite, crash bang heavy, and both had very contemporary styled action (Bourne-esq in QOS. John Woo- esque in TND climax).

    Both of there third films go heavier on plot, and both feature a personal grudge against M.

    Finally, both their fourth films have huge identity crisis's. Both have a villain with two names, also who are both believed by Bond to be deceased. Both have largely soulless, but big scale action.

    Rather a lot of similarity there, I'm sure you will agree.

    I’m going to disagree with you on this one. TND isn’t good. It’s a bottom dweller for me, tight down there with DAF. And SF is better than good, it’s great.
    Still, it’s an interesting comparison you’ve got between Brosnan and Craig. I’d add that in both cases their 4th film tried to go a bit ‘old school’ and bring in some the the classic elements form the film series (OTT villain scheme in DAD; OTT henchman in SP)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    CR is a classic, full stop.

    I love the first half of SF but it really loses something for me at Silva's island, which probably should have been the site of the climax of the film.

    All of Brosnan's films now feel dated to me; it's the scripts, the acting, everything.
  • edited September 2020 Posts: 15,785
    Lately I've been feeling CR to be a bit overrated.

    Aside from the PTS, and the parkour/crane bit, the first half doesn't get me too excited. Once we meet Vesper, I'm hooked. From then on, we're more or less into the novel.
    Still, an excellent Bond film, but I'd champion OHMSS over CR any day.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,761
    I agree, CR is a great film no doubt about it, but best Bond ever? Not to me.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    CR is my favorite. I really love each and every moment of it.
  • Posts: 6,728
    At the time, i felt i could watch a lot more of CR, I loved it so much. Now i think some of the first half could do with tightening up. But its still top tier Bond, mainly because of Craig, who is fantastic!
    SF didnt do it for me, and though i find it a bit more watcable these days, it will never crack my top ten!
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,378
    CR is my favorite. I really love each and every moment of it.

    Yes!
    And here is the controversial statement: While the love story and the death of Vesper really touches me, I feel nothing when the end credits of OHMSS start rolling. (This sounds like I wouldn't love OHMSS, but it is in my top3.)
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Not only is CR the best bond film, but I would go as far as to say CR is so meticulous in every single way, so perfect in every department of filmmaking, that it is actually one of the best films of all time.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,342
    echo wrote: »
    CR is a classic, full stop.

    I love the first half of SF but it really loses something for me at Silva's island, which probably should have been the site of the climax of the film.

    All of Brosnan's films now feel dated to me; it's the scripts, the acting, everything.

    I think CR is a classic too.
    And i also think Pierce's films don't stand the test of time i'm afraid.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    Brosnan's films don't feel any more dated than the ones that proceeded it, to me.
  • Posts: 12,243
    Brosnan's films don't feel any more dated than the ones that proceeded it, to me.

    They’re all “dated,” and not in a bad way. A lot of people like to throw that adjective around in a negative connotation, but with movies - particularly Bond - it can add an extra lot of charm to the experiences. You KNOW when you’re watching a 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s or 10s Bond, and I think it’s great!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Brosnan's films don't feel any more dated than the ones that proceeded it, to me.

    They’re all “dated,” and not in a bad way. A lot of people like to throw that adjective around in a negative connotation, but with movies - particularly Bond - it can add an extra lot of charm to the experiences. You KNOW when you’re watching a 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s or 10s Bond, and I think it’s great!

    Precisely!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited September 2020 Posts: 4,053
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Brosnan's films don't feel any more dated than the ones that proceeded it, to me.

    They’re all “dated,” and not in a bad way. A lot of people like to throw that adjective around in a negative connotation, but with movies - particularly Bond - it can add an extra lot of charm to the experiences. You KNOW when you’re watching a 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s or 10s Bond, and I think it’s great!

    Precisely!

    That’s part of the charm, for the series. Too see how much the series (and the world) has changed over the years.
  • Posts: 1,394
    As much as i love Eva Green as an actress,i thought the character of Vesper Lynd annoying and i didnt feel one bit sorry when she died.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 2020 Posts: 5,921
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Brosnan's films don't feel any more dated than the ones that proceeded it, to me.

    They’re all “dated,” and not in a bad way. A lot of people like to throw that adjective around in a negative connotation, but with movies - particularly Bond - it can add an extra lot of charm to the experiences. You KNOW when you’re watching a 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s or 10s Bond, and I think it’s great!

    Precisely!

    Brosnan's films have aged particularly badly. The '90s was not a great era for blockbuster cinema in general, not like the '60s-'80s.
  • Posts: 15,785
    I think SF looks dated. The YouTube scenes don't stand the test of time as YouTube has been upgraded since 2012.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    As much as i love Eva Green as an actress,i thought the character of Vesper Lynd annoying and i didnt feel one bit sorry when she died.

    I don't find her annoying. She's one of my favorite Craig era Bond girls. That said, I'm not in the least bit moved by her death. After an action packed exciting finale her death scene now comes off as unintentionally funny to me.
    I'm more moved by Aki's death in YOLT and especially Vijay's in OP.
  • Posts: 1,879
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I think SF looks dated. The YouTube scenes don't stand the test of time as YouTube has been upgraded since 2012.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    As much as i love Eva Green as an actress,i thought the character of Vesper Lynd annoying and i didnt feel one bit sorry when she died.

    I don't find her annoying. She's one of my favorite Craig era Bond girls. That said, I'm not in the least bit moved by her death. After an action packed exciting finale her death scene now comes off as unintentionally funny to me.
    I'm more moved by Aki's death in YOLT and especially Vijay's in OP.

    It is kind of hard to be moved as moved by Vesper's death. She's being set up, sure, but there's that whole betrayal thing hanging over her.
    Mallory wrote: »
    @Ludovico I absolutely agree with that, and when looking back over the Craig era (as that is the one we’re currently in), its the little character moments that stick with me the most.

    Casino Royale

    - Bond washing himself up after the Obanno stairwell fight
    - Bond and Vesper in the shower scene
    - Him coming to terms with her death after trying to revive her in Venice

    Quantum of Solace

    - Mathis and Bond chatting on the plane
    - Bond and Camille in the sink hole
    - Bond and Camille’s final chat in the car.

    Skyfall

    - Bond lazing around on the beach, a broken man.
    - Bond’s evaluation, and subsequent failing
    - Bond and M’s journey to Skyfall

    Spectre

    - Bond and Swann in the hotel room.


    For all the wizz bang wallop pyrotechnics of the Craig era, its the character moments that resonate with me the most.

    For me as well. In fact, the little character moments have always been a factor for me in my love of the series. I think back to the moments in the Connery and Moore films where he'd merely check into a hotel suite as part of the charm. It hit home whenever I'd go to a hotel I'd think back to those moments (nope, never did find any bugs in the lamp or behind a picture). Then there were the admiring glances from the hotel desk clerks and Connery grabbing a grape from Angelo's room in TB and things like that that make these more fun and stand out apart from the imitators.

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,053
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    As much as i love Eva Green as an actress,i thought the character of Vesper Lynd annoying and i didnt feel one bit sorry when she died.

    I didn’t pity M in SF in the same way. She knew the risks of her career. She causally tossed people aside, and she deserved what she got.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Brosnan's films don't feel any more dated than the ones that proceeded it, to me.

    They’re all “dated,” and not in a bad way. A lot of people like to throw that adjective around in a negative connotation, but with movies - particularly Bond - it can add an extra lot of charm to the experiences. You KNOW when you’re watching a 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s or 10s Bond, and I think it’s great!

    The Problem for me is that the dated elements of the Brosnan films don’t add charm, quite the opposite. They remind me of things I didn’t like about the 90s , particularly the Loaded lads culture style humour evident in scenes such as the ‘pump her for information’ banter in TND and the X-ray glasses in TWINE and the Moneypenny VR abomination of a scene in DAD
  • Posts: 1,394
    echo wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Brosnan's films don't feel any more dated than the ones that proceeded it, to me.

    They’re all “dated,” and not in a bad way. A lot of people like to throw that adjective around in a negative connotation, but with movies - particularly Bond - it can add an extra lot of charm to the experiences. You KNOW when you’re watching a 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s or 10s Bond, and I think it’s great!

    Precisely!

    Brosnan's films have aged particularly badly. The '90s was not a great era for blockbuster cinema in general, not like the '60s-'80s.

    Youre joking right? The 90s was an AWESOME decade for action cinema!

    Total Recall.
    Terminator 2:Judgement Day.
    Hard Boiled.
    Jurassic Park.
    Cliffhanger.
    Speed.
    True Lies.
    The Rock.
    Face-Off.
    Con Air.
    Independance Day.
    The Matrix.

    And many many more...


  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    echo wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Brosnan's films don't feel any more dated than the ones that proceeded it, to me.

    They’re all “dated,” and not in a bad way. A lot of people like to throw that adjective around in a negative connotation, but with movies - particularly Bond - it can add an extra lot of charm to the experiences. You KNOW when you’re watching a 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s or 10s Bond, and I think it’s great!

    Precisely!

    Brosnan's films have aged particularly badly. The '90s was not a great era for blockbuster cinema in general, not like the '60s-'80s.

    Yeah, I keep seeing this said. But I don't see how they've aged any worse than any other decade, really. Why have they aged badly? What makes them less timeless than an 80s/70s blockbuster? Blockbuster cinema as we know it didn't exist in the 60s.
  • Posts: 17,241
    As much as I probably should love CR, I think I've only watched it once in the last five years. I'm never in the mood for it, and I find it too long.
  • Posts: 15,785
    As much as I probably should love CR, I think I've only watched it once in the last five years. I'm never in the mood for it, and I find it too long.

    I've been feeling that way about the Craig era in general.

    I tend to think of CR as THE GODFATHER of Bond films: a masterpiece that's epic in length, but one I'm rarely in the mood for.
    Actually that's a weak analogy as I'd watch CR over THE GODFATHER any day of the week.
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