Christopher Nolan - Appreciation Thread

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  • edited September 2020 Posts: 7,053
    GadgetMan wrote: »

    Doesn't explain why Tenet has grossed so low domestically ($11 million). That's just over $4 million more than The New Mutants's opening weekend.

    You do know covid is still prevailing in the Gucci states right?

    Let me rephrase the question: whose brilliant was it to release a $200 million budget film in the middle of a global pandemic? A $11 million opening might seem strong given the current situation, but it is an abysmal number when putting the budget into consideration. Tenet will need legs not achieved since Titanic to even reach $100 milllion domestic. It is likely that the last chance this film had of breaking even has disappeared after this weekend.

    And the consequence is most likely that EON will not risk realeasing NTTD before the vaccine is properly under control... which might take years... :(
  • edited September 2020 Posts: 4,342
    GadgetMan wrote: »

    Doesn't explain why Tenet has grossed so low domestically ($11 million). That's just over $4 million more than The New Mutants's opening weekend.

    You do know covid is still prevailing in the Gucci states right?

    Let me rephrase the question: whose brilliant was it to release a $200 million budget film in the middle of a global pandemic? A $11 million opening might seem strong given the current situation, but it is an abysmal number when putting the budget into consideration. Tenet will need legs not achieved since Titanic to even reach $100 milllion domestic. It is likely that the last chance this film had of breaking even has disappeared after this weekend.

    I think this is kinda to be expected...Tenet was never going to be a behemoth opening weekend. However, you're right; the final domestic number was probably on the lower-end of expectations, but still in line with those expectations. Tenet is basically the shot in the arm that distribution needed after 6 months of no revenue. I think Nolan's plan was always to take one for the team....the hope is that slow and steady wins the race.
    antovolk wrote: »
    The one IMO weakness is how much the themes for the first time end up taking a backseat. There’s always been something thematic driving the high concept - eg returning to family in Inception - but here that aspect felt like a box tick mention. But appropriate for the spy genre? After all, this is a save the world story, with the biggest stakes for a Nolan film yet. The scale of this is just jaw dropping, especially knowing how much was shot and executed for real. And Ludwig’s score, my god. Relentless, it’s very evocative of Nolan’s new more experimental and visceral blockbuster stage of filmmaking he’s come into with Dunkirk and now this. The detail and the intricacies of it, while carrying an incredible energy throughout and feeling fresh. And I really appreciated the Bondian touches - the guitar, the synergy with Travis Scott’s song...

    This quote is interesting to me...Tenet is probably Nolan's most shallow film. There aren't much in the way of themes to unpick. The film is a little too infatuated with it's own puzzle-origami structure to indulge too heavily on this.

    However, I do think that the plot concerning Kat is the core story to the film. The oppressed wife who is controlled by her husband. Someone who is a victim, who ultimately overcomes her oppressor herself. That is the central theme of the film. She get's her life back and the freedom she craves and she does it for herself.

    I also think there is a slight progressive agenda hidden in the film (Maybe, Nolan's way of pushing back on the Tory accusations). Sator is portrayed as an ultra-rich shady Russian oligarch; someone wealth has corrupted and made 'eviiiiiiil'. Someone using dodgy tax-haven Freeports to facilitate his nasty plans. The staff are portrayed as particularly odious. Meanwhile, the ominous figures from 'The Future' despise mankind in 2020 as they are destroying the environment and, therefore, must be exterminated. Regardless of the risk posed by the 'Grandfather Paradox.'

    So....there is certainly meat on the bone. Just not much. Nolan is definitely more interested in the gloss, glamour, science and action.

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  • Posts: 1,297
    jobo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »

    Doesn't explain why Tenet has grossed so low domestically ($11 million). That's just over $4 million more than The New Mutants's opening weekend.

    You do know covid is still prevailing in the Gucci states right?

    Let me rephrase the question: whose brilliant was it to release a $200 million budget film in the middle of a global pandemic? A $11 million opening might seem strong given the current situation, but it is an abysmal number when putting the budget into consideration. Tenet will need legs not achieved since Titanic to even reach $100 milllion domestic. It is likely that the last chance this film had of breaking even has disappeared after this weekend.

    And the consequence is most likely that EON will not risk realeasing NTTD before the vaccine is properly under control... which might take years... :(

    Don't be so pessimistic. Warners have released Tenet knowing it will and can play longer on the screens, like films did in the old days, taking time to build up its box office. MGM, Eon, Universal will be playing the same hand with Bond - they know it won't and can't open huge, but that it will have legs to perform over a longer theatrical release window.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,277
    jobo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »

    Doesn't explain why Tenet has grossed so low domestically ($11 million). That's just over $4 million more than The New Mutants's opening weekend.

    You do know covid is still prevailing in the Gucci states right?

    Let me rephrase the question: whose brilliant was it to release a $200 million budget film in the middle of a global pandemic? A $11 million opening might seem strong given the current situation, but it is an abysmal number when putting the budget into consideration. Tenet will need legs not achieved since Titanic to even reach $100 milllion domestic. It is likely that the last chance this film had of breaking even has disappeared after this weekend.

    And the consequence is most likely that EON will not risk realeasing NTTD before the vaccine is properly under control... which might take years... :(

    I highly doubt it. The second marketing campaign has begun. The drink cups at our theater were like NTTD souvenir cups.
  • jamesbond0007jamesbond0007 mississippi
    Posts: 32
    Nolans take on trying to make a Black Bond film failed at all levels.....
  • Posts: 1,297
    Nolans take on trying to make a Black Bond film failed at all levels.....

    Not for me. I loved it. So did my 24 year old nephew who saw it with me.

  • Don't be so pessimistic. Warners have released Tenet knowing it will and can play longer on the screens, like films did in the old days, taking time to build up its box office. MGM, Eon, Universal will be playing the same hand with Bond - they know it won't and can't open huge, but that it will have legs to perform over a longer theatrical release window.
    I agree with this. When did it become the case that a film is viewed as either a financial success or failure based on just the first few days of its release? Otherwise why are films usually in cinemas for up to 2 months if all that matters is the first weekend that they come out?
  • Posts: 1,297
    Don't be so pessimistic. Warners have released Tenet knowing it will and can play longer on the screens, like films did in the old days, taking time to build up its box office. MGM, Eon, Universal will be playing the same hand with Bond - they know it won't and can't open huge, but that it will have legs to perform over a longer theatrical release window.
    I agree with this. When did it become the case that a film is viewed as either a financial success or failure based on just the first few days of its release? Otherwise why are films usually in cinemas for up to 2 months if all that matters is the first weekend that they come out?

    The crazy pressure for a big opening weekend has been partially driven by studios wanting to keep share holders and finance partners etc. happy. But this new reality is making the studios and distribution companies realise they have to think differently. Needs must.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,534
    Don't be so pessimistic. Warners have released Tenet knowing it will and can play longer on the screens, like films did in the old days, taking time to build up its box office. MGM, Eon, Universal will be playing the same hand with Bond - they know it won't and can't open huge, but that it will have legs to perform over a longer theatrical release window.
    I agree with this. When did it become the case that a film is viewed as either a financial success or failure based on just the first few days of its release? Otherwise why are films usually in cinemas for up to 2 months if all that matters is the first weekend that they come out?

    Out of the 4,700 wide releases in the US assessed by Box Office Mojo, only 208 of them have had a bigger box office gross in their second weekend than their opening weekend.

    So, unless Tenet joins that elite club, it will gross less than $11 million this coming weekend. If this were to happen, Tenet's domestic run is basically over, due to a disastrous opening weekend and non-existent legs. No-one can predict the future, so all we have now to analyze are the numbers for its opening weekend. And those numbers are not good at all. If Tenet does not have legs, and thus does not become the 209th film to have an increase for its second weekend, the film essentially becomes a $200 million dollar flop.

    Barring any delays, the next big budget film comes out in 4 weeks. And it will take precedent over Nolan's film as Wonder Woman 1984 already has a sequel in the works; Tenet does not.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Enemy of the state
    Posts: 41,566
    I don t know about that. The Peanut Butter Falcon is still on the program here after three months.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,534
    The Peanut Butter Falcon is a $6.3 million budget film, that grossed over 3 times its budget domestically already. And it was not a wide-release on its opening weekend (17 screens only on August 9th 2019). It only reached 1,000+ screens on its third weekend. Not really comparable to a $200 million budget film that would immediately be to 3,000+ screens (pre-pandemic) on opening weekend. Only 208 of those wide-releases in the past 3 decades have registered a box office increase on their second weekend.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Enemy of the state
    Posts: 41,566
    The Peanut Butter Falcon is a $6.3 million budget film, that grossed over 3 times its budget domestically already. And it was not a wide-release on its opening weekend (17 screens only on August 9th 2019). It only reached 1,000+ screens on its third weekend. Not really comparable to a $200 million budget film that would immediately be to 3,000+ screens (pre-pandemic) on opening weekend. Only 208 of those wide-releases in the past 3 decades have registered a box office increase on their second weekend.

    It opened in early June here. I know nothing about its success, but he point is, it would normally probably have run for just a couple of weeks.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited September 2020 Posts: 4,277
    Don't be so pessimistic. Warners have released Tenet knowing it will and can play longer on the screens, like films did in the old days, taking time to build up its box office. MGM, Eon, Universal will be playing the same hand with Bond - they know it won't and can't open huge, but that it will have legs to perform over a longer theatrical release window.
    I agree with this. When did it become the case that a film is viewed as either a financial success or failure based on just the first few days of its release? Otherwise why are films usually in cinemas for up to 2 months if all that matters is the first weekend that they come out?

    Out of the 4,700 wide releases in the US assessed by Box Office Mojo, only 208 of them have had a bigger box office gross in their second weekend than their opening weekend.

    So, unless Tenet joins that elite club, it will gross less than $11 million this coming weekend. If this were to happen, Tenet's domestic run is basically over, due to a disastrous opening weekend and non-existent legs. No-one can predict the future, so all we have now to analyze are the numbers for its opening weekend. And those numbers are not good at all. If Tenet does not have legs, and thus does not become the 209th film to have an increase for its second weekend, the film essentially becomes a $200 million dollar flop.

    Barring any delays, the next big budget film comes out in 4 weeks. And it will take precedent over Nolan's film as Wonder Woman 1984 already has a sequel in the works; Tenet does not.

    You can't compare Tenet's box office numbers to previous films. And projections don't work either. We are in unchartered territory.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,534
    TripAces wrote: »
    [You can't compare Tenet's box office numbers to previous films. And projections don't work either.

    Tenet is the third major release post pandemic. The other 2 recorded a 60% drop (The New Mutants) and a 35% drop (Unhinged*).

    * For Unhinged: the drop was between weekend #2 and #3, as it was not a wide-release until its second weekend.

    As for projections: Tenet came $15 million below its projected Chinese opening weekend, and $14 million below its projected domestic opening. The only projection it has beaten so far was its international opening weekend.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,277
    TripAces wrote: »
    [You can't compare Tenet's box office numbers to previous films. And projections don't work either.

    Tenet is the third major release post pandemic. The other 2 recorded a 60% drop (The New Mutants) and a 35% drop (Unhinged*).

    * For Unhinged: the drop was between weekend #2 and #3, as it was not a wide-release until its second weekend.

    As for projections: Tenet came $15 million below its projected Chinese opening weekend, and $14 million below its projected domestic opening. The only projection it has beaten so far was its international opening weekend.

    1, The New Mutants and Unhinged are far from "major" releases.
    2. You cannot project what Tenet might do in coming weeks because of what those two films did or what films have done in the past. More theaters are opening. More people may be (or might not be) more comfortable going to theaters in coming weeks.
    3. The lack of marketing for Tenet is part of the issue. I went with three people, all movie buffs, none of whom even knew what the film was or that it had even been released. They just wanted to go to a movie.
    4. The film's luke warm reviews are not helping.

    I would not be surprised if Tenet's BO numbers improve next weekend. What's standing in its way is not the virus or the public or the theaters. It's that it isn't a great movie.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,534
    TripAces wrote: »
    1, The New Mutants and Unhinged are far from "major" releases.

    Just to be clear: 'major' releases = wide releases. Both New Mutants and Unhinged are the only wide-releases alongside Tenet we've had so far in the post-Covid world. Which has been proven to be extremely rare for those to have a box office increase from opening weekend to second weekend (208 out of 4,700 since the early 1980's). And already 2 of those 3 failed to join that elite club. It's now Tenet's turn to try, as this weekend will be its second.
  • Posts: 584
    Nolans take on trying to make a Black Bond film failed at all levels.....

    Of course the lad from Mississippi is hyper focused on the black guy. This is too perfect.

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,277
    TripAces wrote: »
    1, The New Mutants and Unhinged are far from "major" releases.

    Just to be clear: 'major' releases = wide releases. Both New Mutants and Unhinged are the only wide-releases alongside Tenet we've had so far in the post-Covid world. Which has been proven to be extremely rare for those to have a box office increase from opening weekend to second weekend (208 out of 4,700 since the early 1980's). And already 2 of those 3 failed to join that elite club. It's now Tenet's turn to try, as this weekend will be its second.

    Like Tenet: no marketing for those films, at all. Again, we are in unchartered territory, so we can't conclude anything at all from Tenet's BO numbers. Only 65% of U.S. theaters are even open at the moment. Under these circumstances, "word of mouth" is what will get more people into the theater, weeks 2-3, than anything else. If the BO fall off, I don't think it will be because that is the traditional model. It will be because people have no desire to go see that movie. We'll see.
  • jamesbond0007jamesbond0007 mississippi
    Posts: 32
    [quote It will be because people have no desire to go see that movie. We'll see. [/quote]

    It will be that no one wants to go sit in Covid infested theaters worldwide and would rather watch it online or DVD.......
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited September 2020 Posts: 4,277
    [quote It will be because people have no desire to go see that movie. We'll see.

    It will be that no one wants to go sit in Covid infested theaters worldwide and would rather watch it online or DVD.......
    [/quote]

    It depends on the location, I suppose. I went last night: I felt pretty safe. There was nobody else in the theater anywhere near us. It was about 25-30% full. When you buy tickets, then the computer automatically "blocks out" seats around you.

    Actually, the only unsafe part of the whole experience was the restroom.
  • jamesbond0007jamesbond0007 mississippi
    Posts: 32
    [quote=

    It depends on the location, I suppose. I went last night: I felt pretty safe. There was nobody else in the theater anywhere near us. It was about 25-30% full. When you buy tickets, then the computer automatically "blocks out" seats around you.

    Actually, the only unsafe part of the whole experience was the restroom.
    [/quote]

    They will probably jack up the concession prices to pay for the extra electrical costs to run the place with empty theaters.......
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    edited September 2020 Posts: 366
    I think one big important piece you are leaving out is that the general consensus among casual movie-goers is that ‘Tenet’ is NOT a very good film. Nearly everyone I’ve spoken to has expressed that they heard it was a disappointment.

    Since there are probably many “on the fence” about seeing a movie in theaters generally, how much of a factor was simply that reviews are lukewarm?

    What could a highly reviewed, universally praised film be pulling?

    Perhaps NTTD can seal the deal for the general public ?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited September 2020 Posts: 9,129
    Status as of today 7 September. Seems to be doing okay.


    IMDB
    7.9/10 (77,147)

    Rotten Tomatoes
    A visually dazzling puzzle for film lovers to unlock, Tenet serves up all the cerebral spectacle audiences expect from a Christopher Nolan production.
    74% TOMATOMETER (219)
    78% Audience Score (1,497)

    Metacritic
    69 METASCORE (44 Critic Reviews)
    7.8 USER SCORE (285 Ratings)

    Google Users
    88%
    Liked it

    common sense media
    4/5

    CinemaScore
    B
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited September 2020 Posts: 6,470
    The thing to remember with any film is that most people will not go online and rate it. I'm sure there are plenty of films that failed financially because of poor word of mouth with decent audience scores on certain websites.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 9,129
    If I knew of other measures of opinion I'd post them.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,470
    If I knew of other measures of opinion I'd post them.

    Sometimes there are none! I meant no disrespect to your input @RichardTheBruce, but I too have heard a lot of negative reactions from people I know. So I don't think it's an isolated feeling.
  • jamesbond0007jamesbond0007 mississippi
    Posts: 32
    I think one big important piece you are leaving out is that the general consensus among casual movie-goers is that ‘Tenet’ is NOT a very good film. Nearly everyone I’ve spoken to has expressed that they heard it was a disappointment.

    Since there are probably many “on the fence” about seeing a movie in theaters generally, how much of a factor was simply that reviews are lukewarm?

    What could a highly reviewed, universally praised film be pulling?

    Perhaps NTTD can seal the deal for the general public ?

    With the up tick in Corona worldwide and all the theaters to probably close again soon NTTD Will be lucky to even make back it's budget of 300 mill.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited September 2020 Posts: 9,129
    Sometimes there are none! I meant no disrespect to your input @RichardTheBruce, but I too have heard a lot of negative reactions from people I know. So I don't think it's an isolated feeling.
    That's understandable, I said elsewhere I compared it to the reception Quantum of Solace got. Very vocal disappoint by a portion of filmgoers. Still, Quantum of Solace was successful at the box office and with other measures of audience reaction to it.

    The idea to outright dismiss IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic, etc. seems odd to me in any case. Anyway I take a long view on these things. It will be interesting to look back on this in a year's time.

  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    Compared to Tenet, online reaction to NTTD has been pretty good. General audience seems pretty excited to watch it.
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