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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited March 2020 Posts: 7,526
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I find that Connery's 007 from NSNA is actually one of his best performances as 007 he really enjoys his part which cannot be said about DAF which felt like him going through the moves but never really convincing. With NSNA his old 007 was back.

    I'll really have to check this film out!

    My love of Spectre is my only really controversial Bond opinion I think.

    IMO Skyfall has the best scene in the whole franchise, maybe that's controversial as well?
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Thunderball wrote: »
    Daniel316 wrote: »
    Tbh NSNA is weird as it does some things better than Thunderball did such as: Felix, Pacing, Action sequences, Fatima Blush, etc but it also has issues in areas that Thunderball excels in like: Domino, Largo, Locations, Music, cinematography and Connery's overall performance. I feel both of them failed to really deliver strongly due to different issues. Although I still stand by the thought of if TB had great pacing, A much better and more rewarding Final Battle and a more developed henchmen (Perhaps Vargas) then it'd be easily a top 10 Bond film in my book probably. It's got all the tools to succeed

    So you're saying that Fatima Blush is better than Fiona Volpe? 😳 Talk about controversial. Personally I find that there's absolutley nothing that NSNA does better than TB, but I'll let the rest slide, but not that. Fiona is right alongside Tracy, Vesper and Dench's M as the Bond series' best female characters.

    It's probably not so much controversial, more that NSNA gets ignored in any discussion involving rankings so Blush is left out by default. Those who do discuss NSNA generally think Blush is a highlight. My personal opinion is I don't care for NSNA so I don't rate Blush in the canon
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,505
    Is Severine considered a femme fatale?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I find that Connery's 007 from NSNA is actually one of his best performances as 007 he really enjoys his part which cannot be said about DAF which felt like him going through the moves but never really convincing. With NSNA his old 007 was back.

    I never understood this opinion some fans have of Connery in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER. To me he looks more energized in a way he hadn't been since THUNDERBALL or even earlier. He literally looks like he's having a good time unlike in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,270
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I find that Connery's 007 from NSNA is actually one of his best performances as 007 he really enjoys his part which cannot be said about DAF which felt like him going through the moves but never really convincing. With NSNA his old 007 was back.

    I never understood this opinion some fans have of Connery in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER. To me he looks more energized in a way he hadn't been since THUNDERBALL or even earlier. He literally looks like he's having a good time unlike in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE.

    I will say he does a little better in DAF than YOLT, but still doesn’t come close to his original 4 performances. Also, I think besides Connery’s performance, YOLT is superior to DAF in almost all ways.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    DAF wins me with its acting and witty dialogue. YOLT in comparison is pretty boring.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,883
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I find that Connery's 007 from NSNA is actually one of his best performances as 007 he really enjoys his part which cannot be said about DAF which felt like him going through the moves but never really convincing. With NSNA his old 007 was back.

    I never understood this opinion some fans have of Connery in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER. To me he looks more energized in a way he hadn't been since THUNDERBALL or even earlier. He literally looks like he's having a good time unlike in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE.
    I agree, but will say reenergized and relaxed at the same time. Connery knew he had a good deal, it was a one-off and Eon was pressured to bring the film in on time so they didn't have to pay him more. There are lots of shots of him smiling, goofing and having a good time. It probably also helped that Bondmania had waned and there wasn't nearly as much press demand as before.

    It's also fun to see him handle a lighter type of role. No, he didn't look in peak physical form, but he didn't in YOLT either when he was closer to that prime.
  • Daniel316Daniel316 United States
    Posts: 210
    Ok some clarification: I made a screw up when writing about Fatima Blush. No she's not better than Fionna although she's a definite highlight of NSNA. Dunno why I said that lol.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,818
    I prefer Fatima to Fiona, though it's a close toss.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    I've got to go with Fiona, she (alongside Elektra King) is one of my favourite femme fatales. Don't get me wrong, Fatima is great as well.

    But Thunderball is incredible, a far superior Bond film.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    peter wrote: »
    Is Severine considered a femme fatale?

    Yes, I'd say she is to some degree. She lures Bond to Silva's island, even if it wasn't with malicious intentions. However, she clearly has some part in Silva's work, she presents that client to a bullet in the back of the head in Shanghai.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Is Severine considered a femme fatale?

    Yes, I'd say she is to some degree. She lures Bond to Silva's island, even if it wasn't with malicious intentions. However, she clearly has some part in Silva's work, she presents that client to a bullet in the back of the head in Shanghai.

    And she carries a gun, even though we never see her use it, I don't imagine it's just for show.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Is Severine considered a femme fatale?

    Yes, I'd say she is to some degree. She lures Bond to Silva's island, even if it wasn't with malicious intentions. However, she clearly has some part in Silva's work, she presents that client to a bullet in the back of the head in Shanghai.

    And she carries a gun, even though we never see her use it, I don't imagine it's just for show.

    Did she really have a choice in the matter though? The fear she has for Silva suggests she's not doing it willingly. But who knows?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    w2bond wrote: »
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Is Severine considered a femme fatale?

    Yes, I'd say she is to some degree. She lures Bond to Silva's island, even if it wasn't with malicious intentions. However, she clearly has some part in Silva's work, she presents that client to a bullet in the back of the head in Shanghai.

    And she carries a gun, even though we never see her use it, I don't imagine it's just for show.

    Did she really have a choice in the matter though? The fear she has for Silva suggests she's not doing it willingly. But who knows?

    True, but I'm sure you could ask the same of other femme fatals as well.
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,896
    She's not evil enough to be a femme fatale, especially since she turns into a sympathetic victim in her later scenes.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    Revelator wrote: »
    She's not evil enough to be a femme fatale, especially since she turns into a sympathetic victim in her later scenes.

    I don't think Femme Fatales have to be evil to qualify. Black Widow for instance.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Fatima Blush reminds me more of Cruella de Vil than Fiona Volpe.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Not really a fan of Fatima.
  • RevelatorRevelator
    edited March 2020 Posts: 2,896
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    I don't think Femme Fatales have to be evil to qualify. Black Widow for instance.

    Wouldn't she be an exception that proves the rule though? A femme fatale should have a some degree of fatality or at least harm-inducement toward her lover(s), whereas Severine is ultimately sympathetic toward Bond. She seems like a femme fatale at first but develops into a tragic Bond girl.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,973
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Is Severine considered a femme fatale?

    Yes, I'd say she is to some degree. She lures Bond to Silva's island, even if it wasn't with malicious intentions. However, she clearly has some part in Silva's work, she presents that client to a bullet in the back of the head in Shanghai.

    And she carries a gun, even though we never see her use it, I don't imagine it's just for show.

    Did she really have a choice in the matter though? The fear she has for Silva suggests she's not doing it willingly. But who knows?

    True, but I'm sure you could ask the same of other femme fatals as well.

    Fiona, Fatima, onatopp, elektra, all seduce their lovers and use them for their pleasure and benefit, to discard them afterwards (usually with the death of their lovers as a result). It's the 'deadly but seductive trap' that makes femme's fatales. So no, severine isn't a femme Fatale. Only octopussy might be on the edge, but severine doesn't come up with the idea of going to silva herself. She only takes a high gamble in the hopes of beeing set free.

  • ThighsOfXeniaThighsOfXenia
    edited March 2020 Posts: 1,595
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    Yes, this. There are flashes of emotion in many of Roger’s movies, not sustained emotion admittedly, but still brief glimpses of Bond’s feelings or fears, a crack in the facade. Dalton was good at expressing inner emotion too.

    I'll add an unpopular/controversial opinion here, to comment on this -- I think Moore's ability to imbue Bond with humanity is often criminally underrated. I agree with you, these are more flashes of emotion, brief glimpses, a crack in the façade. Those are all great word choices, and I think they're really befitting of Bond as a character. There is more nuance to his portrayal than he is often credited with.

    The obvious examples here are from FYEO, particularly, but there are shades of it in all of his films, even the Gilbert ones which are more known for depicting Bond as unflappable superhero.

    My love for Moore's Bond only grows as time passes.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,973
    ThighsOfXenia wrote: »
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    Yes, this. There are flashes of emotion in many of Roger’s movies, not sustained emotion admittedly, but still brief glimpses of Bond’s feelings or fears, a crack in the facade. Dalton was good at expressing inner emotion too.

    I'll add an unpopular/controversial opinion here, to comment on this -- I think Moore's ability to imbue Bond with humanity is often criminally underrated. I agree with you, these are more flashes of emotion, brief glimpses, a crack in the façade. Those are all great word choices, and I think they're really befitting of Bond as a character. There is more nuance to his portrayal than he is often credited with.

    The obvious examples here are from FYEO, particularly, but there are shades of it in all of his films, even the Gilbert ones which are more known for depicting Bond as unflappable superhero.

    My love for Moore's Bond only grows as time passes.
    The only reason people don't see his acting prowess is his own selfdeprication. The man was too stylish and friendly for beeing an actor. I think his Bond incarnation is far, far better than is usually accepted. Take his scene from Tswlm when he tells xxx he killed her lover. I'm not saying no other actor could've pulled it off, just that he does it extremely well
  • Daniel316Daniel316 United States
    Posts: 210
    I definitely feel that Moore's acting ability is very much understated and underappreciated
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    Daniel316 wrote: »
    I definitely feel that Moore's acting ability is very much understated and underappreciated

    Having just finished watching all his films again, I definitely agree.
  • Benjamin_Weekly69Benjamin_Weekly69 London
    Posts: 727
    Moore is brilliant.
  • Daniel316Daniel316 United States
    Posts: 210
    Moore is just so captivating and fun to watch, I can watch him all day long honestly.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,788
    Brosnan Era defenders will disagree, Brosnan Era haters will disagree as well, but in my opinion the single best thing that came out of Pierce's reign is Eric Serra's avant-garde GE score.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    Daniel316 wrote: »
    I definitely feel that Moore's acting ability is very much understated and underappreciated

    Having just finished watching all his films again, I definitely agree.

    100%
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Brosnan Era defenders will disagree, Brosnan Era haters will disagree as well, but in my opinion the single best thing that came out of Pierce's reign is Eric Serra's avant-garde GE score.

    +1

    Serra's score is masterful, IMO. Completely in keeping with the Cold-War tone of the film. The GB sequence is by far one of my favourite individual tracks from the franchise. A lot of nostalgia comes back to me when I listen to his score.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    I adore Serra's score. GoldenEye Overture, We Share the Same Passions, Whispering Statues, the music that plays during the helicopter escape, Run Shoot And Jump, Fatal Weakness, and I Am Invincible (which should've been used in the film) are all great. I even like The Experience of Love.

    That being said, it's a good thing John Altman rescored the tank chase. He probably should've tackled the Bond and Xenia race as well since that seems to be the track that gets the majority of criticism.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Remington wrote: »
    I adore Serra's score. GoldenEye Overture, We Share the Same Passions, Whispering Statues, the music that plays during the helicopter escape, Run Shoot And Jump, Fatal Weakness, and I Am Invincible (which should've been used in the film) are all great. I even like The Experience of Love.

    That being said, it's a good thing John Altman rescored the tank chase. He probably should've tackled the Bond and Xenia race as well since that seems to be the track that gets the majority of criticism.

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/19705/dish-out-of-water-eric-serra-appreciation/p1
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