Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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  • Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I like Dalts too but am not sure what position I'd rank him atm.

    There is only 1 position for the greatest Bond ever (*)
  • Posts: 299
    I think it would have been very interesting to see Dalton do a third film. Regardless of whether it was GE or something else, that third spin would have likely defined him that much more (even though I feel he was already very well cemented, despite his naysayers).
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I like Dalts too but am not sure what position I'd rank him atm.

    There is only 1 position for the greatest Bond ever (*)

    Yessh there ish :p
  • Posts: 115
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I like Dalts too but am not sure what position I'd rank him atm.

    There is only 1 position for the greatest Bond ever (*)

    Yessh there ish :p

    Here, here. Although Dalton is my second favourite Bond.
  • Posts: 638
    Personally I far prefer Dalton and would have loved to see Dalton in GE, but I do have to admit I don't think it would have fared that well (especially in the US) in the box office had he done it.
    I'm not sure I entirely buy the "public demanding Pierce Brosnan" line that seems to have become the accepted wisdom. I doubt there would have been a bloodthirsty torch-bearing, pitchfork waving, mob outside Eon's doors, had they plumped for Dalton or another actor for Goldeneye.

    I don't know how old you are, but I assume you are fairly young. I was in high school in the 80s and a big Bond fan. Remington Steele was a moderately successful TV show, but everyone automatically assumed he would be the next James Bond. I recall talking to people when TLD was released who had not even seen the movie but stated "they should have got the guy from Remington Steele". Dalton had to live under that shadow. Yes, the public demand for Brosnan as Bond was huge. Yes, I am in the US and remember, the US is the single biggest market in the world.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,347
    jaguar007 wrote:
    Personally I far prefer Dalton and would have loved to see Dalton in GE, but I do have to admit I don't think it would have fared that well (especially in the US) in the box office had he done it.
    I'm not sure I entirely buy the "public demanding Pierce Brosnan" line that seems to have become the accepted wisdom. I doubt there would have been a bloodthirsty torch-bearing, pitchfork waving, mob outside Eon's doors, had they plumped for Dalton or another actor for Goldeneye.

    I don't know how old you are, but I assume you are fairly young. I was in high school in the 80s and a big Bond fan. Remington Steele was a moderately successful TV show, but everyone automatically assumed he would be the next James Bond. I recall talking to people when TLD was released who had not even seen the movie but stated "they should have got the guy from Remington Steele". Dalton had to live under that shadow. Yes, the public demand for Brosnan as Bond was huge. Yes, I am in the US and remember, the US is the single biggest market in the world.

    I concur with this. You and I must be around the same age.

    It was a big deal here in the US. Brosnan was widely perceived as being groomed to be the next Bond after Moore. NBC un-canceled Remington Steele to capitalize on this perception. And after that, Dalton was announced as Bond.

    I do believe that being perceived as the runner-up Bond in the US ultimately hurt Dalton's box office here. (And for the record, I prefer Dalton to Brosnan.)
  • Posts: 11,425
    It definitely felt like Brosnan was America's choice. Like many of the UK posters here, I have to say that I had never heard of him before GE.

    By contrast, Dalton was relatively well known in the UK, mainly due to his TV work in period costume dramas. However, there is a Good Morning America slot on You Tube from just before TLD was released where they describe Dalts as being fairly well known in the US as well.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    However, Dalton to me looked like someone who could kill you easily, and that's Bond.

    You see. I don't know about that :-? I see what you mean but I think, in some ways, Craig has more of that genuinely scary manner about him. Craig could (and did) kill people in a heartbeat. With Dalton it sometimes seemed a bit...put on sometimes :\">

    Your joking? Surely?

    The Pushkin at gunpoint scene is chilling because you believe he will pull the trigger. He sets the man up, warns the girl to take cover and the audience believes he will initiate the kill.

    He's doing part of his job which is executioner. And Dalton has a coldness in this scene which is chilling.

  • Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I like Dalts too but am not sure what position I'd rank him atm.

    There is only 1 position for the greatest Bond ever (*)

    Yessh there ish :p

    What's wrong? Are you ok? Ah, I know, Dalton's awesomeness is so mind blowing that you can't type normally. For a second there I thought you were saying Connery was the best :))
  • Posts: 1,492
    Getafix wrote:
    It definitely felt like Brosnan was America's choice. Like many of the UK posters here, I have to say that I had never heard of him before GE.

    By contrast, Dalton was relatively well known in the UK, mainly due to his TV work in period costume dramas. However, there is a Good Morning America slot on You Tube from just before TLD was released where they describe Dalts as being fairly well known in the US as well.

    Brosnan was an American choice. Remington Steele was barely on the radar over here and ,yes,Tim was known for BBC dramas. But it was Flash Gordon put the man on the map.

    Remington Steele was on BBC2 before Newsnight. Hardly the prime spot.

  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    actonsteve wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    However, Dalton to me looked like someone who could kill you easily, and that's Bond.

    You see. I don't know about that :-? I see what you mean but I think, in some ways, Craig has more of that genuinely scary manner about him. Craig could (and did) kill people in a heartbeat. With Dalton it sometimes seemed a bit...put on sometimes :\">

    Your joking? Surely?

    The Pushkin at gunpoint scene is chilling because you believe he will pull the trigger. He sets the man up, warns the girl to take cover and the audience believes he will initiate the kill.

    He's doing part of his job which is executioner. And Dalton has a coldness in this scene which is chilling.

    Maybe not so much in TLD (I agree thats a good scene) but LTK...eh...a bit. He scowls his way through that film.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    However, Dalton to me looked like someone who could kill you easily, and that's Bond.

    You see. I don't know about that :-? I see what you mean but I think, in some ways, Craig has more of that genuinely scary manner about him. Craig could (and did) kill people in a heartbeat. With Dalton it sometimes seemed a bit...put on sometimes :\">

    Your joking? Surely?

    The Pushkin at gunpoint scene is chilling because you believe he will pull the trigger. He sets the man up, warns the girl to take cover and the audience believes he will initiate the kill.

    He's doing part of his job which is executioner. And Dalton has a coldness in this scene which is chilling.

    Maybe not so much in TLD but LTK...eh...a bit. He scowls his way through that film.

    The Bond of LTK is terrifying. You call it scowling I call it single mindedness.

  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    He grimaces, looks away from the camera and huffs and puffs A LOT.

    I'd actually argue that Davi is more terrifying with his relaxed, cool attitude. He pretty much steals the show from Dalton and gets most of the best lines in the film.

    "What did he promise you? His heart?...Give her his heart!!" (probably my favourite line in the film. The sound the knife makes when Dario flips it out is the icing on the cake).

    "I want you to know this is nothing personal...its purely...business"

    "You like my little valantine huh" (smiles)

    (To Crest) "Like a little biird"

    "Launder it"
  • Posts: 4,813
    He also smiles and laughs plenty too-- I watched LTK pretty recently and most of his scowling was during the Casino scene (and I suppose that was only because he was so close to the enemy but couldn't kill him)
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I was watching it this morning. True he laughs sometimes but he does scowl a fair bit too.

    -The scene with M ("Sir they're not going to DO anything")
    -The casino ("Where's Sanchez")
    -The hospital ("Well FIND HIM")
    -The boat with Pam ("Well they must have HIT THE FUEL LINE")
    -"Get me out of these BLOODY things"
    -"I WANT THE TRUTH"
    -"watch the birdie you bastard"
  • Posts: 12,837
    Well, scowling is still cooler than pouting (damn now I'm bringing Craig up).
  • Posts: 11,189
    Well, scowling is still cooler than pouting (damn now I'm bringing Craig up).

    Haha. Fair point. The scowler vs the pouter :p
  • Posts: 4,813
    And don't forget 'The Eyebrows'
  • Posts: 299
    You have to consider the material of LTK before judging it. The man was on a personal vendetta. It was PERSONAL. Up to then we had never seen that side of Bond. From a human standpoint, it made perfect sense. Of course he was going to scowl.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I was watching it this morning. True he laughs sometimes but he does scowl a fair bit too.

    -The scene with M ("Sir they're not going to DO anything")
    -The casino ("Where's Sanchez")
    -The hospital ("Well FIND HIM")
    -The boat with Pam ("Well they must have HIT THE FUEL LINE")
    -"Get me out of these BLOODY things"
    -"I WANT THE TRUTH"
    -"watch the birdie you bastard"

    I sometimes think you sit two inches away from the screen scribbling with a pad and pencil.

    Theres fresh air outside you know....

    :P :P :-*
  • Posts: 11,425
    He also smiles and laughs plenty too-- I watched LTK pretty recently and most of his scowling was during the Casino scene (and I suppose that was only because he was so close to the enemy but couldn't kill him)

    Exactly. Dalts brought lighter moments even without a constant stream of one liners.
  • Posts: 5,634
    I don't know why Dalton took on the appearance of a drowned rat for the Casino scenes, he looked like he had just arrived, out of a monsoon or something, every time it all looks a bit questionable

    just to reiterate, I always insist Goldeneye 1995 was a little too far forward for Dalton to still be James Bond, if not for the legal disputes and he had continued about two or three years after LTK, That would of been appropriate but I think by the mid 1990s Dalton was slightly too old for the part and I'll always accept that Brosnan was suitable that year and did a good job with it, Dalton may have embarrassed himself a little, his time on stage had passed by that time

  • Posts: 11,189
    You have to consider the material of LTK before judging it. The man was on a personal vendetta. It was PERSONAL. Up to then we had never seen that side of Bond. From a human standpoint, it made perfect sense. Of course he was going to scowl.

    Hmm...yeah suppose so.
    actonsteve wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I was watching it this morning. True he laughs sometimes but he does scowl a fair bit too.

    -The scene with M ("Sir they're not going to DO anything")
    -The casino ("Where's Sanchez")
    -The hospital ("Well FIND HIM")
    -The boat with Pam ("Well they must have HIT THE FUEL LINE")
    -"Get me out of these BLOODY things"
    -"I WANT THE TRUTH"
    -"watch the birdie you bastard"

    I sometimes think you sit two inches away from the screen scribbling with a pad and pencil.

    Theres fresh air outside you know....

    :P :P :-*

    :)) :)) :))

    Err...no I don't do that :-S :-S
  • Posts: 638
    Getafix wrote:
    , there is a Good Morning America slot on You Tube from just before TLD was released where they describe Dalts as being fairly well known in the US as well.

    Actually I remember that watching that GMA episode back in 87. I was familiar with Dalton prior to him being cast as Bond, mainly from Flash Gordon.
  • Posts: 1,143
    Dalton could have done a great job but I feel this was Brosnans best performance as Bond and I would want to wish that away from him.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dalton could have done a great job but I feel this was Brosnans best performance as Bond and I would want to wish that away from him.

    Still think it would have been better with a different composer.
  • Posts: 299
    Getafix wrote:
    Dalton could have done a great job but I feel this was Brosnans best performance as Bond and I would want to wish that away from him.

    Still think it would have been better with a different composer.

    I agree with this. The score, for the most part, is awful.

  • I think Dalton's age would of really helped the film. When he decided, or was forced, to turn in his licence to kill he really had that I've done it all look. The whole speech M gives him about being a dinosaur, as well as the changing times would have been perfect.
  • Posts: 5,634
    He wasn't forced, he decided to quit the role in early '94 due to the ongoing legal disputes of the time

    Sorry, I see what you mean now, the visit to M in Florida in License to Kill, wasn't reading from the same page

    No matter what is said, I always insist Dalton would of been inappropriate for Goldeneye by 1995, just as Connery was with Diamonds and Moore in Octopussy and View to a Kill and Brosnan in Die Another Day. Bond actors need to know, or be told sometimes when enough is enough, but they evidently weren't listening one or two of them. Brosnan was a success in '95, new Bond, new times, it was an overall success, I'm adamant that Dalton wouldn't have done as well, Pierce looked young and fresh at the time and did very well. As much I like Dalton, I merely insist, this was past his time by now, it's all very well in hindsight that he dropped out when he did and someone else got the part and did a fine job with it
  • He wasn't forced, he decided to quit the role in early '94 due to the ongoing legal disputes of the time

    Sorry, I see what you mean now, the visit to M in Florida in License to Kill, wasn't reading from the same page

    No matter what is said, I always insist Dalton would of been inappropriate for Goldeneye by 1995, just as Connery was with Diamonds and Moore in Octopussy and View to a Kill and Brosnan in Die Another Day. Bond actors need to know, or be told sometimes when enough is enough, but they evidently weren't listening one or two of them. Brosnan was a success in '95, new Bond, new times, it was an overall success, I'm adamant that Dalton wouldn't have done as well, Pierce looked young and fresh at the time and did very well. As much I like Dalton, I merely insist, this was past his time by now, it's all very well in hindsight that he dropped out when he did and someone else got the part and did a fine job with it

    I do think Brosnan held the series up well, but GE was one of the few films in the series where an older Bond would work. All the talk about Bond being a relic would have made more sense with a ond we already had, and a Bond who was older.

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