Is THE SPY WHO LOVED ME Roger Moore's best film?

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  • Posts: 631
    A very interesting spread of opinions on display here, with LALD, TMWTGG, Spy, Moonraker, FYEO and Octopussy all being proposed as Roger’s best by different people.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I am a big OP fan and could also make a good case for it being Rog's best.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    I’ve recently revisited Moonraker and decided that it does most things a bit better than TSWLM. I understand the historical and economic importance of Spy, but in my opinion MR has superior cinematography, score/soundtrack, theme song, Bond girl, set design, and I’d argue it’s Moore’s best performance.

    I love MR, and it does have all of those things, but a film is more than the sum of its parts and MR doesn't really hang together. Apart from the centrifuge and Corinne put-down, there's almost zero tension and all of the action scenes are weak and don't really work (apart from the sky-diving, obviously). Spy is just a much more exciting film.
    I'd also very much contend the idea that MR has a superior theme song.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,761
    Getafix wrote: »
    I am a big OP fan and could also make a good case for it being Rog's best.

    Me too. My preferences regarding the Rog era:

    1. The Man with the Golden Gun
    2. Octopussy
    3. Moonraker
    4. Live and Let Die
    5. The Spy Who Loved Me
    6. A View to a Kill
    7. For Your Eyes Only
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    FYEO
    MR
    OP
    TSWLM
    LALD
    TMWTGG
    AVATAK
  • Posts: 11,425
    OP
    TSWLM
    FYEO
    TMWTGG
    AVTAK
    MR
    LALD
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2020 Posts: 14,861
    As we're doing it (and I don't see the point in lists unless you show your working out),

    TSWLM - It just clicks together perfectly. Thrills, fun, tension it's all there, and perfectly paced. The perfect Bond film.
    MR - Flawed, but it just makes me happy.
    OP - Good mix of big screen fun and exciting action.
    AVTAK - A bit of a lesser version of OP, but has so much I love in it I could never call it the worst.
    FYEO - It's probably a better film than AVTAK, but I don't have as much affection for it. Great action though and lots to enjoy.
    TMWTGG - A bit flat, they hadn't found their way
    LALD - really quite flat and incredibly episodic: have an action scene, go back to the hotel to talk to Felix, and repeat.

    They're all good films, of course.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,761
    mtm wrote: »
    .
    They're all good films, of course.

    That is true!
  • Posts: 631
    Changes depending on mood but today it is

    LALD: I love the supernatural element, and Bond winging it in Harlem, and (most of all) the speedboat chase
    MR: for death of Corinne and space shuttles. I’ve read a few comments that people think it’s ok until it gets into space when it goes downhill, but I think it goes uphill when they get into space. I love it from the launch of the shuttles onwards
    TSWLM: ski jump, Egypt stuff, the Lotus chase, the great Liparus set, Bond shooting Stromberg in his plums

    Then a bit of a gap

    TMWTGG: I enjoy early 70s sleaziness
    FYEO: a taut spy thriller but not really James Bond, it could be an early Bourne film
    OP: East German stuff is good but India is awful
    AVTAK: old people watching horses
  • Posts: 4,023
    OP
    LALD
    FYEO
    MR
    AVTAK
    TMWTGG
    TSWLM
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    SWLM
    LALD
    MWTGG
    MR
    FYEO
    OP
    VTAK
  • Posts: 623
    That'd be mine Shardlake. Exact.
    Never understood the Octopussy love. The Tarzan yell, the costumes, the horse's arse, Q in a hot air balloon .... to me it was a regression into silliness after the more grounded FYEO.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    I like silliness :) More silliness the better, especially right now.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,761
    shamanimal wrote: »
    That'd be mine Shardlake. Exact.
    Never understood the Octopussy love. The Tarzan yell, the costumes, the horse's arse, Q in a hot air balloon .... to me it was a regression into silliness after the more grounded FYEO.

    The Cold War atmosphere, the great sets, the excellent stunt work, characters like Octopussy and Orlov, the Alfa, ... .

    Also, the Inner German Border is the most Cold War-esque location ever and this is the only Bond film that explores this territory, for that alone it gets extra points.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.
  • Posts: 631
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.

    The Orient Express would have taken Bond and Tatiana through Yugoslavia I suppose? Not proper Warsaw Pact territory though.
  • Posts: 1,879
    [quote="IGotABrudder;c-1094455"
    AVTAK: old people watching horses
    [/quote]

    Thanks for the laugh. :)) I really needed one today.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2020 Posts: 6,761
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.
    Off the top of my head, these also came to mind:

    'Red Chinese waters' in TMWTGG
    Czechoslovakia in TLD.
    PTS of GE (not sure of this counts though).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2020 Posts: 14,861
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.
    Off the top of my head, these also came to mind:

    'Red Chinese waters' in TMWTGG
    Czechoslovakia in TLD.
    PTS of GE (not sure of this counts though).

    Yeah good ones; can't believe I forgot Czechoslovakia! The opening of GE definitely counts.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2020 Posts: 6,761
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.
    Off the top of my head, these also came to mind:

    'Red Chinese waters' in TMWTGG
    Czechoslovakia in TLD.
    PTS of GE (not sure of this counts though).

    Yeah good ones; can't believe I forgot Czechoslovakia! The opening of GE definitely counts.

    I also forgot about Albania in FYEO.
    Although also not technically part of the Warsaw Pact of course, but still a communist regime in those days.

    The PTS of OP also looks like an unnamed communist regime somewhere in the Caribbean. Come to think of it, San Monique in LALD might be too...

    And then we also have North Korea in DAD.
  • Posts: 230
    TSWLM (top 5 Bod film)

    LALD (my first Bond film, so it holds sentimental value)
    FYEO

    MR
    TMWTGG
    OP (all three being pretty interchangeable)

    AVTAK
  • Posts: 230
    Changes depending on mood but today it is

    LALD: I love the supernatural element, and Bond winging it in Harlem, and (most of all) the speedboat chase

    Funny - I think the speedboat chase is the worst part of the film. Takes WAY too long and Pepper destroys every scene he is in.

    The final climax with Adam is great, though.
  • Posts: 3,275
    I'm in the minority here, but I've never been a fan of TSWLM. I like the Lotus Esprit, I like Jaws, I like the parachute jump, and I quite like Moore's performance.

    But there it ends, for me. I can see why it's a fans favourite (like GF is), but it just doesn't tick my boxes. Never been quite sure why.

    Maybe its because it lacks John Barry, and it lacks any Fleming references. I much prefer LALD and TMWTGG. I would even take MR over TSWLM.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2020 Posts: 14,861
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.
    Off the top of my head, these also came to mind:

    'Red Chinese waters' in TMWTGG
    Czechoslovakia in TLD.
    PTS of GE (not sure of this counts though).

    Yeah good ones; can't believe I forgot Czechoslovakia! The opening of GE definitely counts.

    And then we also have North Korea in DAD.

    Sure, that's not so cold war though! :)
    I'm in the minority here, but I've never been a fan of TSWLM. I like the Lotus Esprit, I like Jaws, I like the parachute jump, and I quite like Moore's performance.

    But there it ends, for me. I can see why it's a fans favourite (like GF is), but it just doesn't tick my boxes. Never been quite sure why.

    Maybe its because it lacks John Barry, and it lacks any Fleming references. I much prefer LALD and TMWTGG. I would even take MR over TSWLM.

    Do Fleming references matter when you're making a good movie? I can't quite see that.
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    Changes depending on mood but today it is

    LALD: I love the supernatural element, and Bond winging it in Harlem, and (most of all) the speedboat chase

    Funny - I think the speedboat chase is the worst part of the film. Takes WAY too long and Pepper destroys every scene he is in.

    Yeah, most of LALD's action is rather languid and dull. I get that it has interesting settings and some good flourishes, but I'll never understand why so many people think it's the best one.

  • Posts: 3,275
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.
    Off the top of my head, these also came to mind:

    'Red Chinese waters' in TMWTGG
    Czechoslovakia in TLD.
    PTS of GE (not sure of this counts though).

    Yeah good ones; can't believe I forgot Czechoslovakia! The opening of GE definitely counts.

    And then we also have North Korea in DAD.

    Sure, that's not so cold war though! :)
    I'm in the minority here, but I've never been a fan of TSWLM. I like the Lotus Esprit, I like Jaws, I like the parachute jump, and I quite like Moore's performance.

    But there it ends, for me. I can see why it's a fans favourite (like GF is), but it just doesn't tick my boxes. Never been quite sure why.

    Maybe its because it lacks John Barry, and it lacks any Fleming references. I much prefer LALD and TMWTGG. I would even take MR over TSWLM.

    Do Fleming references matter when you're making a good movie? I can't quite see that.
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    Changes depending on mood but today it is

    LALD: I love the supernatural element, and Bond winging it in Harlem, and (most of all) the speedboat chase

    Funny - I think the speedboat chase is the worst part of the film. Takes WAY too long and Pepper destroys every scene he is in.

    Yeah, most of LALD's action is rather languid and dull. I get that it has interesting settings and some good flourishes, but I'll never understand why so many people think it's the best one.

    Its the small moments I like in LALD rather than the big action scenes - Bond in his apartment, in his hotel room taking a shave. The sideline characters are also interesting - the Whisper, Baron Samedi, Tee Hee, Felix Leiter, etc.

    It also has one of the best songs, and one of the best scores outside of Barry.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 6,728
    I'm in the minority here, but I've never been a fan of TSWLM. I like the Lotus Esprit, I like Jaws, I like the parachute jump, and I quite like Moore's performance.

    But there it ends, for me. I can see why it's a fans favourite (like GF is), but it just doesn't tick my boxes. Never been quite sure why.

    Maybe its because it lacks John Barry, and it lacks any Fleming references. I much prefer LALD and TMWTGG. I would even take MR over TSWLM.

    I'm in your minority group. TSWLM never clicked with me! I find it dull and the characters, apart from Roger of course, dull also! The fight scenes seem to be in slow motion, and it just doesn't have a scene or set piece that stands out for me! I prefer any one of Moores other Bond movies!
    LALD may have dull stretches at the start, but it has great characters, brilliant theme, and the crocodile farm sequence is terrific, love the bus chase, Hedisons Felix Leiter, and one of the best M/Bond encounters!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2020 Posts: 6,761
    TSWLM for me is a bit like GF in the sense that I like its iconic moments but I'm missing the overall satisfaction.

    Much like with GF, where DN and FRWL surpass it in story and TB surpasses it in epicness, I prefer LALD, TMWTGG and MR for the same reasons compared to TSWLM. So I'm in the minority too ;) @jetsetwilly @Mathis1
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.
    Off the top of my head, these also came to mind:

    'Red Chinese waters' in TMWTGG
    Czechoslovakia in TLD.
    PTS of GE (not sure of this counts though).

    Yeah good ones; can't believe I forgot Czechoslovakia! The opening of GE definitely counts.

    And then we also have North Korea in DAD.

    Sure, that's not so cold war though! :)
    True. I forgot about that. Sorry :D
  • Posts: 230
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.
    Off the top of my head, these also came to mind:

    'Red Chinese waters' in TMWTGG
    Czechoslovakia in TLD.
    PTS of GE (not sure of this counts though).

    Yeah good ones; can't believe I forgot Czechoslovakia! The opening of GE definitely counts.

    And then we also have North Korea in DAD.

    Sure, that's not so cold war though! :)
    I'm in the minority here, but I've never been a fan of TSWLM. I like the Lotus Esprit, I like Jaws, I like the parachute jump, and I quite like Moore's performance.

    But there it ends, for me. I can see why it's a fans favourite (like GF is), but it just doesn't tick my boxes. Never been quite sure why.

    Maybe its because it lacks John Barry, and it lacks any Fleming references. I much prefer LALD and TMWTGG. I would even take MR over TSWLM.

    Do Fleming references matter when you're making a good movie? I can't quite see that.
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    Changes depending on mood but today it is

    LALD: I love the supernatural element, and Bond winging it in Harlem, and (most of all) the speedboat chase

    Funny - I think the speedboat chase is the worst part of the film. Takes WAY too long and Pepper destroys every scene he is in.

    Yeah, most of LALD's action is rather languid and dull. I get that it has interesting settings and some good flourishes, but I'll never understand why so many people think it's the best one.

    Its the small moments I like in LALD rather than the big action scenes - Bond in his apartment, in his hotel room taking a shave. The sideline characters are also interesting - the Whisper, Baron Samedi, Tee Hee, Felix Leiter, etc.

    It also has one of the best songs, and one of the best scores outside of Barry.

    Agreed re: the small moments. The minor characters are unique and ominous. The "supernatural" element adds a creepy and fun quirk to the series. Lots of great little scenes. Bond hang-gliding with a cigar in his mouth is about as bad-ass as Moore gets. "Now promise you'll stay right there. I shan't be long" is classic Roger Moore. Its got crocs, sharks, AND snakes!

    It is definitely an atmosphere over action film and I think it pulls-off what it is gong for quite well.

    Minus JW Pepper and that endless bot chase.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2020 Posts: 14,861
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember: is this and A View To A Kill the only time Bond was in proper enemy territory during the Cold War?
    Was he in the East in From Russia With Love? I don't know how the politics worked.
    Off the top of my head, these also came to mind:

    'Red Chinese waters' in TMWTGG
    Czechoslovakia in TLD.
    PTS of GE (not sure of this counts though).

    Yeah good ones; can't believe I forgot Czechoslovakia! The opening of GE definitely counts.

    And then we also have North Korea in DAD.

    Sure, that's not so cold war though! :)
    I'm in the minority here, but I've never been a fan of TSWLM. I like the Lotus Esprit, I like Jaws, I like the parachute jump, and I quite like Moore's performance.

    But there it ends, for me. I can see why it's a fans favourite (like GF is), but it just doesn't tick my boxes. Never been quite sure why.

    Maybe its because it lacks John Barry, and it lacks any Fleming references. I much prefer LALD and TMWTGG. I would even take MR over TSWLM.

    Do Fleming references matter when you're making a good movie? I can't quite see that.
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    Changes depending on mood but today it is

    LALD: I love the supernatural element, and Bond winging it in Harlem, and (most of all) the speedboat chase

    Funny - I think the speedboat chase is the worst part of the film. Takes WAY too long and Pepper destroys every scene he is in.

    Yeah, most of LALD's action is rather languid and dull. I get that it has interesting settings and some good flourishes, but I'll never understand why so many people think it's the best one.

    Its the small moments I like in LALD rather than the big action scenes - Bond in his apartment, in his hotel room taking a shave. The sideline characters are also interesting - the Whisper, Baron Samedi, Tee Hee, Felix Leiter, etc.

    It also has one of the best songs, and one of the best scores outside of Barry.

    Yeah exactly: it has lots of little bits that are good (I love the watch, myself), but then most Bond films do! It doesn't really come together to make a decent whole, I'd argue. Or at least, there are other Bond films which do it much better. There seems to be a section of the film where Bond leaves his hotel every morning, has an unmemorable action scene, then goes back to the hotel in the evening to have Felix roll his eyes at him, and then he does it again the next day. Very episodic. And why is Felix never with him when there's actual spying to do? :)
  • Posts: 11,425
    LaLD is sadly a bit boring
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