SKYFALL - How does it get the balance right?

edited December 2013 in Skyfall Posts: 16
Skyfall has been called a classic Bond - yet it actually breaks a lot of new ground. Unveiling Bond's past/ M joining in the adventure / No actual romance with a Bond girl/ a different sort of Moneypenny etc.
Do you think that it gets away with these changes because it re visits and enhances so many classic 'Bondisms' -from great classic sounding track,classic title credits,Aston Martin?
I know there must be more changes and more holding on to classic Bond bits-and want to list them in my dissertation on Bond--Any ideas on how it gets the balance just rightThanks AG

Comments

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    AGBond wrote:
    Any ideas on how it gets the balance just right

    I don't think it does get the balance just right.

    Don't get me wrong I think its a great entry to the series (certainly top 10, possibly top 5) but for a 50th anniversary Bond film I expect at least one more big stunt/set piece featuring stuff we have never seen before. They use up all the stunt work in the PTS because it's expected for that to be big but after that there's just the odd fight/shootout and then an explosive, but ultimately fairly unoriginal finale.

    The tube sequence especially (although being superb dramatically) really doesn't cut it for a Bond action sequence. Bond jumps on the back of a train for 3 seconds and slides down an escalator? It's not exactly the tank chase or cargo net fight is it?

    It's only a minor gripe and I'm glad we've got a director who delivers such dramatic heft but why can't we have our cake and eat it next time and let the stunt team cut loose a bit more?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2013 Posts: 17,727
    AGBond wrote:
    Any ideas on how it gets the balance just right

    I don't think it does get the balance just right.

    Don't get me wrong I think its a great entry to the series (certainly top 10, possibly top 5) but for a 50th anniversary Bond film I expect at least one more big stunt/set piece featuring stuff we have never seen before. They use up all the stunt work in the PTS because it's expected for that to be big but after that there's just the odd fight/shootout and then an explosive, but ultimately fairly unoriginal finale.

    The tube sequence especially (although being superb dramatically) really doesn't cut it for a Bond action sequence. Bond jumps on the back of a train for 3 seconds and slides down an escalator? It's not exactly the tank chase or cargo net fight is it?

    It's only a minor gripe and I'm glad we've got a director who delivers such dramatic heft but why can't we have our cake and eat it next time and let the stunt team cut loose a bit more?

    A criticism that I'd not really ever thought of before, Ice. Perhaps the stunt teams will be cut loose a bit more come Bond 24. I think because Skyfall's plot was so personal and character driven the action sequences took something of a back seat in the film, and following QoS (as much as I love it) that surely wasn't a bad thing, no?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    AGBond wrote:
    Any ideas on how it gets the balance just right

    I don't think it does get the balance just right.

    Don't get me wrong I think its a great entry to the series (certainly top 10, possibly top 5) but for a 50th anniversary Bond film I expect at least one more big stunt/set piece featuring stuff we have never seen before. They use up all the stunt work in the PTS because it's expected for that to be big but after that there's just the odd fight/shootout and then an explosive, but ultimately fairly unoriginal finale.

    The tube sequence especially (although being superb dramatically) really doesn't cut it for a Bond action sequence. Bond jumps on the back of a train for 3 seconds and slides down an escalator? It's not exactly the tank chase or cargo net fight is it?

    It's only a minor gripe and I'm glad we've got a director who delivers such dramatic heft but why can't we have our cake and eat it next time and let the stunt team cut loose a bit more?

    A criticism that I'd not really ever thought of before, Ice. Perhaps the stunt teams will be cut loose a bit more come Bond 24. I think because Skyfall's plot was so personal and character driven the action sequences took something of a back seat in the film, and following QoS (as much as I love it) that surely wasn't a bad thing, no?
    Dragonpol wrote:
    AGBond wrote:
    Any ideas on how it gets the balance just right

    I don't think it does get the balance just right.

    Don't get me wrong I think its a great entry to the series (certainly top 10, possibly top 5) but for a 50th anniversary Bond film I expect at least one more big stunt/set piece featuring stuff we have never seen before. They use up all the stunt work in the PTS because it's expected for that to be big but after that there's just the odd fight/shootout and then an explosive, but ultimately fairly unoriginal finale.

    The tube sequence especially (although being superb dramatically) really doesn't cut it for a Bond action sequence. Bond jumps on the back of a train for 3 seconds and slides down an escalator? It's not exactly the tank chase or cargo net fight is it?

    It's only a minor gripe and I'm glad we've got a director who delivers such dramatic heft but why can't we have our cake and eat it next time and let the stunt team cut loose a bit more?

    A criticism that I'd not really ever thought of before, Ice. Perhaps the stunt teams will be cut loose a bit more come Bond 24. I think because Skyfall's plot was so personal and character driven the action sequences took something of a back seat in the film, and following QoS (as much as I love it) that surely wasn't a bad thing, no?

    Well I agree entirely that QOS was too far the other way and I much prefer SF's approach but I still consider CR the best of the Craig era striking the perfect balance of all elements.

    My gripe with the action in SF is that the only big stunts were a) all in the PTS and b) you'd seen them to death in the trailer. The rest is just fights and shooting and I do think there is a tendency at the moment to think that it's better to have less large scale action so Daniel Craig can do 90% of it rather than days of Rog when they handed everything over to the stuntmen.

    I feel there really should be at least two massive stunt sequences in a modern Bond film - the PTS and one other towards the end of the second act - bolstered by say 3 or 4 smaller scale scenes such as fights and shootouts.

    The action in the 80's still feels unsurpassed for me. FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK are jam packed with stunning set pieces - at least three per film.

    I don't want B24 to go down QOS's route with way too many action scenes (and apart from the rope fight) largely underwhelming ones at that. Just give us something spectacular that we haven't seen before and do it at least twice.

    I like the quality of acting, cinematography and directing we have at present but lets not forget that Bond is never going to be brand leader in terms of being a serious drama to be ranked alongside the latest Daniel Day Lewis film but where it is (or at least has been in the past and should be aiming for) the best is delivering amazing stunts done for real - and plenty of them.

    I don't mind Mendes spending a long time polishing the script but lets also use the three years to come up with some inspired set pieces to rival iconic Bond action scenes of yore.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2013 Posts: 17,727
    I've lost count.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2013 Posts: 17,727
    Unbelievable.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2013 Posts: 17,727
    Damned computers!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2013 Posts: 17,727
    Sorry. My computer went mad!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,727
    Dragonpol wrote:
    AGBond wrote:
    Any ideas on how it gets the balance just right

    I don't think it does get the balance just right.

    Don't get me wrong I think its a great entry to the series (certainly top 10, possibly top 5) but for a 50th anniversary Bond film I expect at least one more big stunt/set piece featuring stuff we have never seen before. They use up all the stunt work in the PTS because it's expected for that to be big but after that there's just the odd fight/shootout and then an explosive, but ultimately fairly unoriginal finale.

    The tube sequence especially (although being superb dramatically) really doesn't cut it for a Bond action sequence. Bond jumps on the back of a train for 3 seconds and slides down an escalator? It's not exactly the tank chase or cargo net fight is it?

    It's only a minor gripe and I'm glad we've got a director who delivers such dramatic heft but why can't we have our cake and eat it next time and let the stunt team cut loose a bit more?

    A criticism that I'd not really ever thought of before, Ice. Perhaps the stunt teams will be cut loose a bit more come Bond 24. I think because Skyfall's plot was so personal and character driven the action sequences took something of a back seat in the film, and following QoS (as much as I love it) that surely wasn't a bad thing, no?

    Well I agree entirely that QOS was too far the other way and I much prefer SF's approach but I still consider CR the best of the Craig era striking the perfect balance of all elements.

    My gripe with the action in SF is that the only big stunts were a) all in the PTS and b) you'd seen them to death in the trailer. The rest is just fights and shooting and I do think there is a tendency at the moment to think that it's better to have less large scale action so Daniel Craig can do 90% of it rather than days of Rog when they handed everything over to the stuntmen.

    I feel there really should be at least two massive stunt sequences in a modern Bond film - the PTS and one other towards the end of the second act - bolstered by say 3 or 4 smaller scale scenes such as fights and shootouts.

    The action in the 80's still feels unsurpassed for me. FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK are jam packed with stunning set pieces - at least three per film.

    I don't want B24 to go down QOS's route with way too many action scenes (and apart from the rope fight) largely underwhelming ones at that. Just give us something spectacular that we haven't seen before and do it at least twice.

    I like the quality of acting, cinematography and directing we have at present but lets not forget that Bond is never going to be brand leader in terms of being a serious drama to be ranked alongside the latest Daniel Day Lewis film but where it is (or at least has been in the past and should be aiming for) the best is delivering amazing stunts done for real - and plenty of them.

    I don't mind Mendes spending a long time polishing the script but lets also use the three years to come up with some inspired set pieces to rival iconic Bond action scenes of yore.
    [/quote]

    But aren't we forgetting somethinf here, Ice. This is the era of "Drama-Bond" with more character-driven stories and at the very least more Flemingesque content throughout the film. And don't forget that, as Sam Mendes said in the Skyfall special on BBC 2, and as I said in my article linked below, Skyfall was a return to a back-to-basics FYEO type of Bond film - the return to the antiquated Skyfall Lodge being the context in which Bond, M and Kincade used their considerable resourcefulness skills against overwhelming odds and a very technical savvy and heavily armed opponent in Silva and his minions and their Vietnam War style assault on Bond's ancestral home. I think that this fact may have led to a less action set piece driven narrative to show off, Colonel Sun style, Bond's ingenuity and resourcefulness under pressure to match and then beat Silva and all his up-to-date whizz-bang weaponry and helicopters. I should have thought that this approach to things was much more Flemingesque and realistic than Bond and Zao's gadgetry filled cars battering the hell out of each other in the tiresome DAD.

    http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/kingsley-amis-draxs-gambit-and-reform.html
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Double post.

    Double? Try quintuple! I think a warning should be coming your way for artificially trying to boost your post count!

    Anyway if Mendes wants to go down the purely Fleming route then why the motorbikes on rooftops and VWs (Beetles I think) tumbling across the screen?

    I like that we have a more dramatic basis to the films now but unless we are going to go all the way and do faithful period adaptations of Fleming then I (and more importantly the ticket paying proles) expect more bang for my buck stunt wise than SF delivered.

    And obviously I'm not advocating a return to ludicrous gadget car duels. The Dalton films were serious but still managed to pack in some spectacular stunt work - is that too much to ask these days amongst all the existential soul searching?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The Dalton films were serious but still managed to pack in some spectacular stunt work - is that too much to ask these days amongst all the existential soul searching?

    No it's not. They need to get back on track with the iconic stunt work in 24. It's part of what makes the cinematic Bond universe tick.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    AGBond wrote:
    M joining in the adventure / No actual romance with a Bond girl
    I don't think that these two were breaking new ground. Unless you are specifically referring to M being involved in the firefight part of the adventure. For the latter it would seem that no romance is par for the course now in the Craig era.
  • Posts: 16
    Thanks for your views-very insightful. I take them on board- and I did like CS as well...but there was something of a new feeling about SF to me, which I liked -yet it also felt classic. I think that is what I meant about a good balance...
  • Posts: 140
    I also feel that Skyfall does a great job of showing what feels like a thoroughly modern take on the James Bond character while remaining respectful of the Classic Bond legacy. My only significant complaint is that the direct references to previous Bond films (e.g., stepping on the deadly reptile, yet another reappearance of the DB-5) were annoyingly reminiscent of the Brosnan Era, with all of its postmodern self-referencing.

    The real question, as I see it, is will Mendes and his successors be able to continue to respect the Classic Bond legacy without continuing to pile on more and more of these now-tiresome homages, and if so, how?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,417
    SF is a very interesting film; on one hand it's completely unlike the other Bond's - M is occupying the role usually filled by a Bond girl, for example. Yet, somehow, it feels like a classic Bond yarn. Especially the final scenes.
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  • Skyfall is a good film - but is it a good Bond film? There's been too much a drastic change in the films of late - i guess we all know that one.
    Gradual development of the series has worked well over 50yrs - keeps them fresh and contemporary, but we still know what we want and expect from a Bond film. May as well watch another action film otherwise. Too much of a departure from what used to be called 'the Bond formula' leaves the viewer wondering what they are watching.
    It feels more like a Bond book than a film and a Gardner book at that.

    But SF is so much better than QoS - thats a bit of a mess(with a few good bits).
    I left the cinema seething after that one - that hadnt happened before and I saw DAF on release! - (do the math.)

    So much for balance.
  • SF is an interesting film. I'm not a huge fan of Craig but he and the filmmakers certainly made a great film. They were able to evoke the spirit of the Classic Bond films in a very modern movie. It was in the outfits, the attitude, etc. (and the car!) It'll be interesting to see where they take Bond 24.
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