Suggestion how Skyfall could have been improved - keep Severine alive? SPOILER DETAIL

edited February 2013 in Skyfall Posts: 1,645
One possible scenario....

Bond is captured and taken to the island. Silva forces Bond to shoot the drink on Severine's head and Bond duly takes a shot but misses. Bond realizes Severine is a worthwhile asset, she might have secret information about Silva, how he operates, she is worth keeping alive and taking back to MI6. Bond knows the helicopters are on their way but concerned he doesn't have enough time to keep Severine alive. He takes immediate action and kills Silva's guards. The helicopters arrive and Silva is captured.

Back at MI6's temporary base Severine believes Silva will kill her. Bond assures her Silva cannot escape his cell but she knows he is a very cunning, dangerous man. Silva does escape and Bond agrees to look after Severine. Later on, Bond, M and Severine go to Skyfall and Severine plays a part in the final battle against Silva and his men.

I think that would have worked and given the character more depth. Keeping her alive would allow her relationship to develop with Bond. How does Bond feel about her? Does he really trust her? Does he feel a pang of sadness that she was a sex slave? Perhaps Severine has fallen for Bond, perhaps she sees Bond as a ticket to a better way of life in the west? Stuff like that could have been explored and made for a richer Skyfall? Perhaps.

What do MI6 users think about greater plot development for Severine? All views welcome. :)
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Comments

  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    edited February 2013 Posts: 1,549
    Whilst I like Marlohe's performance, Severine serves purely as a plot device so that Bond can finally get to Silva, and nothing else. Beyond that, she has no other purpose, so keeping her alive wouldn't really do anything.

    Bond's goal is to retrieve the list of agents and bring down the threat at all costs, something he demonstrates throughout the movie (leaving Ronson, allowing Patrice to kill the art dealer) so the notion of Severine's demise ties into this. I think it also marks a turning point whereby Bonds says "right, no one else is going to die over this (and Bond himself almost dies over it), hence Bond's Skyfall expedition.
  • CIACIA
    Posts: 120
    Skyfall only downside is that Silvas abilities were a little too over the top at times. I would have preferred if the script was more realistic in that aspect. I realize the Bond films have always had a larger than life element to them. I still like a sound script that makes sense.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    edited February 2013 Posts: 28,417
    I would be lying if I said I didn't want to see more of Severine in Skyfall, but...it just isn't in the cards.

    As @Mallory has said, her only purpose was to give Bond an "in" to get to Silva. After that, her card was literally punched as her importance clocked out.

    I love your ideas though, @fanbond123, like how she could see Bond as her way out of the sex trade. Picture this: What if Severine shares with Bond how she got into the business, explaining that powerful men threatened to kill the man she loved, a man who later turned out to be behind the plot and who also used the money she earned for their sex house for his own selfish needs. Bond could see some of Vesper in her and that would add a whole new layer to her character and his. But though we can't and shouldn't forget our past, I like to leave his feelings for Vesper at the end of QoS, where his action of throwing her algerian love knot in the snow is a symbol of his readiness to accept and move on.

    I will say this: The thing that stings most for me is that this whole time (since the film's title was announced at the press conference) Berenice's role in this film was blown up to be extremely crucial and special to the point that she got more coverage than Naomie did in behind the scenes videos, interviews, press events and more. Then, when we actually see her in the film it can only feel like we have been played the fool with a strong punch to the gut, leaving us underwhelmed and very sad that she didn't have the big part it was portrayed to be. I think this is the prime reason why many are so disappointed by the lack of screentime Berenice/Severine got in Skyfall. Just my thoughts on the matter...
  • I would keep Severine until London but somehow she is killed during interrogation..she would be killed by poison as a reference to Bond almost dying in CR but giving up vital information to Bond about Silva
    I would try to expand more on the cyber attacks
  • It would have been intriguing to have seen how her character could have been developed into a more substantive role. However, she was the scarifical lamb to demonstrate to us the viewer the callous and wicked nature of Silva and also to show no sentimentality on Bond's part in attempting to save a damsel in distress at the risk to his own mission. Bond in the Craig era is a different animal to his predecessors.
  • Posts: 11,425
    CIA wrote:
    Skyfall only downside is that Silvas abilities were a little too over the top at times. I would have preferred if the script was more realistic in that aspect. I realize the Bond films have always had a larger than life element to them. I still like a sound script that makes sense.

    Amen to this. Better plotting and writing would have made SF better. After a 4 year wait I expected a lot more. IMO SF feels even less coherent than QoS.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    It would have been intriguing to have seen how her character could have been developed into a more substantive role. However, she was the scarifical lamb to demonstrate to us the viewer the callous and wicked nature of Silva and also to show no sentimentality on Bond's part in attempting to save a damsel in distress at the risk to his own mission. Bond in the Craig era is a different animal to his predecessors.

    This makes sense but the fact is she was probably the most interesting new character in the film and to lose her after such a short time felt like a big loss. I really feel the film nose dives after the island - up until then it builds quite nicely. More Severine and Silva and less Eve, Q and M would have been good.
  • Getafix wrote:
    CIA wrote:
    Skyfall only downside is that Silvas abilities were a little too over the top at times. I would have preferred if the script was more realistic in that aspect. I realize the Bond films have always had a larger than life element to them. I still like a sound script that makes sense.

    Amen to this. Better plotting and writing would have made SF better. After a 4 year wait I expected a lot more. IMO SF feels even less coherent than QoS.


    you must be watching the wrong movie because SKYFALL had good writing and ploting sorty but this is was a true Bond fan I guess you need to rewatch it because you are in a minority
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    @commandbond007, don't alienate @Getafix. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't like it. Just because he feels that way doesn't mean he is any lesser a Bond fan than you are.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    honestly i thought Skyfall was sublime i wouldnt have changed any bit of it...except maybe casting Chris Barrie as Q....

  • I will say this: The thing that stings most for me is that this whole time (since the film's title was announced at the press conference) Berenice's role in this film was blown up to be extremely crucial and special to the point that she got more coverage than Naomie did in behind the scenes videos, interviews, press events and more. Then, when we actually see her in the film it can only feel like we have been played the fool with a strong punch to the gut, leaving us underwhelmed and very sad that she didn't have the big part it was portrayed to be. I think this is the prime reason why many are so disappointed by the lack of screentime Berenice/Severine got in Skyfall. Just my thoughts on the matter...

    I thought that this was quite canny - her death was even more unexpected and shocking because of everything that you say up above. Marlohe gave a fantastic performance in what little time she had so we weren't cheated out of a great performance. And as for her "surprising" death I think it's great to see something unexpected in a Bond film. They are, to a degree, by-the-numbers and formulaic so anything that subverts expectations makes for a much more interesting film in my book.

  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    fanbond123 wrote:
    One possible scenario....

    OH, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! X( Can't you keep the spoilers OFF The thread's titles?? Is that too hard?? Could you have the MINIMUM of respect for the people that couldn't have the opportunity of watching the film yet??

    Thanks to you, now another try of avoid spoilers is GONE.


    X( X( X(
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 1,645
    Well, how long does someone have to wait until everyone on this forum has seen the film? The film has grossed over a billion dollars at the worldwide box office so I assumed most/all Bond fans have seen the film. If you're a hardcore James Bond fan you'd want to see it at the cinema not wait until it's on DVD or Bluray. If this is a spoiler thread then my mistake. I genuinely assumed all the people posting on this sort of thread had seen the film.
  • Looking forward to see how Skyfall is viewed in 5 to 10 years time. Its executed well on a technical level, though one of the best Bond films I find bemusing. Certainly understand why its so successful, in the current climate it adheres to what the audience want. Answering the question what would i change, onto the next film is my answer :-)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Yeah, warning in a thread title about spoilers while having a spoiler before it in that same title is pretty ironic.
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    fanbond123 wrote:
    Well, how long does someone have to wait until everyone on this forum has seen the film? The film has grossed over a billion dollars at the worldwide box office so I assumed most/all Bond fans have seen the film. If you're a hardcore James Bond fan you'd want to see it at the cinema not wait until it's on DVD or Bluray. If this is a spoiler thread then my mistake. I genuinely assumed all the people posting on this sort of thread had seen the film.

    I couldn't watch it in the theaters because we had family problems, and it wasn't the correct time to have a moment of "fun" with many things to get concerned about.
  • X3MSonicX wrote:
    fanbond123 wrote:
    Well, how long does someone have to wait until everyone on this forum has seen the film? The film has grossed over a billion dollars at the worldwide box office so I assumed most/all Bond fans have seen the film. If you're a hardcore James Bond fan you'd want to see it at the cinema not wait until it's on DVD or Bluray. If this is a spoiler thread then my mistake. I genuinely assumed all the people posting on this sort of thread had seen the film.

    I couldn't watch it in the theaters because we had family problems, and it wasn't the correct time to have a moment of "fun" with many things to get concerned about.

    I was lucky to grab a rare night when I could watch SF, with other commitments its not so easy to just go see a movie. :-)
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    I was lucky to grab a rare night when I could watch SF, with other commitments its not so easy to just go see a movie. :-)

    Agreed. :/
  • fanbond123 wrote:

    I think that would have worked and given the character more depth. Keeping her alive would allow her relationship to develop with Bond. How does Bond feel about her? Does he really trust her? Does he feel a pang of sadness that she was a sex slave? Perhaps Severine has fallen for Bond, perhaps she sees Bond as a ticket to a better way of life in the west? Stuff like that could have been explored and made for a richer Skyfall? Perhaps.

    What do MI6 users think about greater plot development for Severine? All views welcome. :)

    "Someone usually dies."

    We usually need only one Bond girl in the entirety of the film. And in Skyfall it's M. You don't need to be Bond's main interest to be a Bond girl. You need to have the balls to match Bond to be one. I don't know how that would've worked. Bringing Severine to the Skyfall Ranch would be irrational: you're trying to protect your boss from a pack of guys led by a psychotic cybercriminal and you still have the time to bring a girl with you.

    Although yes, that's a very interesting idea, Bond seeing Vesper in Severine. Both girls are used, fooled, and manipulated, but both see Bond as some kind of exit to the world they were thrown into. I wonder how that would've worked out.
  • OligarchOligarch Banned
    Posts: 110
    Getafix wrote:
    It would have been intriguing to have seen how her character could have been developed into a more substantive role. However, she was the scarifical lamb to demonstrate to us the viewer the callous and wicked nature of Silva and also to show no sentimentality on Bond's part in attempting to save a damsel in distress at the risk to his own mission. Bond in the Craig era is a different animal to his predecessors.

    This makes sense but the fact is she was probably the most interesting new character in the film and to lose her after such a short time felt like a big loss. I really feel the film nose dives after the island - up until then it builds quite nicely. More Severine and Silva and less Eve, Q and M would have been good.

    Agreed, once Silva's island was introduced, the film just completely lost its way and became a typical bland action movie with no substance offered at all.
  • OligarchOligarch Banned
    edited February 2013 Posts: 110
    CIA wrote:
    Skyfall only downside is that Silvas abilities were a little too over the top at times. I would have preferred if the script was more realistic in that aspect. I realize the Bond films have always had a larger than life element to them. I still like a sound script that makes sense.

    Amen to this, finally somebody els on the community who has used the word ,"realistic". Silva's actions were definitely over the top and diluted the film of any realism it had left in it. I hope B24 keeps things simple and has a realistic story , but with the success of skyfall. my hopes are thin.

  • Posts: 1,817
    Oligarch wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    It would have been intriguing to have seen how her character could have been developed into a more substantive role. However, she was the scarifical lamb to demonstrate to us the viewer the callous and wicked nature of Silva and also to show no sentimentality on Bond's part in attempting to save a damsel in distress at the risk to his own mission. Bond in the Craig era is a different animal to his predecessors.

    This makes sense but the fact is she was probably the most interesting new character in the film and to lose her after such a short time felt like a big loss. I really feel the film nose dives after the island - up until then it builds quite nicely. More Severine and Silva and less Eve, Q and M would have been good.

    Agreed, once Silva's island was introduced, the film just completely lost its way and became a typical bland action movie with no substance offered at all.

    No substance? Didn't you say the big, deep and almost Oedipal relationship? Did you fell asleep in the chapel scene?
    Oligarch wrote:
    CIA wrote:
    Skyfall only downside is that Silvas abilities were a little too over the top at times. I would have preferred if the script was more realistic in that aspect. I realize the Bond films have always had a larger than life element to them. I still like a sound script that makes sense.

    Amen to this, finally somebody els on the community who has used the word ,"realistic". Silva's actions were definitely over the top and diluted the film of any realism it had left in it. I hope B24 keeps things simple and has a realistic story , but with the success of skyfall. my hopes are thin.

    If you want reality, why don't you go an read Histoy books? Isn't Bond a place for a little escapism and fun?
  • 0013 wrote:
    Oligarch wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    It would have been intriguing to have seen how her character could have been developed into a more substantive role. However, she was the scarifical lamb to demonstrate to us the viewer the callous and wicked nature of Silva and also to show no sentimentality on Bond's part in attempting to save a damsel in distress at the risk to his own mission. Bond in the Craig era is a different animal to his predecessors.

    This makes sense but the fact is she was probably the most interesting new character in the film and to lose her after such a short time felt like a big loss. I really feel the film nose dives after the island - up until then it builds quite nicely. More Severine and Silva and less Eve, Q and M would have been good.

    Agreed, once Silva's island was introduced, the film just completely lost its way and became a typical bland action movie with no substance offered at all.

    No substance? Didn't you say the big, deep and almost Oedipal relationship? Did you fell asleep in the chapel scene?
    Oligarch wrote:
    CIA wrote:
    Skyfall only downside is that Silvas abilities were a little too over the top at times. I would have preferred if the script was more realistic in that aspect. I realize the Bond films have always had a larger than life element to them. I still like a sound script that makes sense.

    Amen to this, finally somebody els on the community who has used the word ,"realistic". Silva's actions were definitely over the top and diluted the film of any realism it had left in it. I hope B24 keeps things simple and has a realistic story , but with the success of skyfall. my hopes are thin.

    If you want reality, why don't you go an read Histoy books? Isn't Bond a place for a little escapism and fun?
    I don't mind a little escapism and fun, but I think they are right in saying a lot of what Silva did didn't really make sense. I think they just need to tighten up the writing a bit next time.
  • Posts: 1,492
    No. Severine was used sparingly and so had more of an impact. Personally i think she was a dope fiend.

    Taking her to skyfall lodge is illogical. She is of no practical use and would have been an extra target.
  • Posts: 1,817
    I will say this: The thing that stings most for me is that this whole time (since the film's title was announced at the press conference) Berenice's role in this film was blown up to be extremely crucial and special to the point that she got more coverage than Naomie did in behind the scenes videos, interviews, press events and more. Then, when we actually see her in the film it can only feel like we have been played the fool with a strong punch to the gut, leaving us underwhelmed and very sad that she didn't have the big part it was portrayed to be. I think this is the prime reason why many are so disappointed by the lack of screentime Berenice/Severine got in Skyfall. Just my thoughts on the matter...

    I agree with you. For example, if Caterina Murino had have that level of attention before CR the feeling would've been similar.
  • I disagree completely. Without Severine being killed off so early, Silva would have looked rather 'weak' IMO. The killing of Severine is a pivotal scene in 'Skyfall'. For your info? Did we forget Andrea Anders in TMWTGG? Similar situation. That girl HAD to die early to give the villain Scaramanga more gravita.
  • What do others actually think about this?
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited February 2013 Posts: 3,848
    If there is one who should have alive then it be Silva.

    Twice the producer said before there making a mistake Carver and Fields. I disagree with Fields, whyle i like to see have her a bit longer Camile is a better chacter to return. Eliot Carver who producers and fans possible have liked to see return in Die Another Day. If not DAD mabey Bond 24 as the secret behind Quantum. But Carver/TMND Legacy return in Silva and in Eon's real meaning of Quantum.

    Silva death or a live, P&W and the producers already have Dominic Green (some people are stil naive like M and Tanner in the movie..) and mabey 2 villians is to much and somebody ele's can push the button. Killing him off, not kill that option (Weakeness of the movie be that there never tell what happend) and that also be a good reasen with the focus possible be on more Quantum you expect if Silva hasn't died return in Bond 24. Whyle The joker also escaped in TDK and TDKR not include Joker, but of course the actor who playing that part died.

    Skyfall missing a good Bond girl and whyle Servine die that fast it be unexpected. The blame to a feeling of missing a Bond girl is to blame to the long wait of the return of Eve who then when she return on the way she return disapointed more. From another view, this also be a suprise and with Jinx it also take a whyle before she return and her return whas disapointed too. Eve her introduction i like more then Jinx. If Eve not be named but she is ther like Bill Tanner whas in QOS or Villiers in CR then i possible have complaned less.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    I disagree completely. Without Severine being killed off so early, Silva would have looked rather 'weak' IMO. The killing of Severine is a pivotal scene in 'Skyfall'. For your info? Did we forget Andrea Anders in TMWTGG? Similar situation. That girl HAD to die early to give the villain Scaramanga more gravita.

    I think they did a great job in making the audience love and care for Severine so that her death would be even more shocking, showing how crazy, evil, and unpredictable Silva could be.
  • Sandy wrote:
    I disagree completely. Without Severine being killed off so early, Silva would have looked rather 'weak' IMO. The killing of Severine is a pivotal scene in 'Skyfall'. For your info? Did we forget Andrea Anders in TMWTGG? Similar situation. That girl HAD to die early to give the villain Scaramanga more gravita.

    I think they did a great job in making the audience love and care for Severine so that her death would be even more shocking, showing how crazy, evil, and unpredictable Silva could be.

    Agreed. Further to my post above, it's also true that the more that you care for/are impressed with a character then the more tragic their death seems. The point of any part of a film is to provoke a response from the audience - that's how you get them involved in the film rather than just passively watching it. Based on the reactions to Severine's death it looks like the makers of SF did things right :-)

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