"No limits, no fears, no substitutes?": Let's discuss... GoldenEye (1995)/ Poll

Getafix

Dr_Metz wrote:

BAIN123 wrote:

(ok Lee's good but Hamilton's direction is sluggish).

I liked Guy Hamilton. At least he didn't just completely reuse plots like Gilbert did.

Getafix wrote:

Dr Metz, why do you use a picture of Jim Callaghan? I'm impressed and intrigued! Is it an oblique reference to the last 'great' Bond - TSWLM - which coincided with Jim's premierhsip? Or is it a declaration of political affiliations? Either way, I approve.

No real reason. Didn't mind him that much though, I really dislike Harold Wilson however.

I am amused by your admirably unfashionable taste in Labour politicians. He was of course immensely popular with the electorate, although that didn't stop people deciding it was 'time for a change'.

Baltimore_007

I was just thinking in you know when Whitaker introduced Pushkin to his HQ, he had all these great former world figures such as Napoleon, Caesar and Ghengis Khan in his hallway, well could they do that again for Skyfall, i.e. Craig gets introduced to someone and we can have Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan lined up (they could use waxworks or mannequins, although with Moore or Lazenby you wouldn't know the difference), it could be a fitting tribute to the series to have them all lined up like before, it's something I wouldn't mind seeing

BAIN123

"TSWLM is IMO the last truly great Bond film".
"I've always been a bit of a sucker for Barbara Bach"

You, Luds and Shark will get on like a house on fire :)) :))

Dr_Metz

Getafix wrote:

TSWLM is IMO the last truly great Bond film. I'm interested in the production design and appearance of the films as much as anything, and Ken Adam's sets are fantastic. Rog has by this film fully hit his stride and I've always been a bit of a sucker for Barbara Bach in a clingy evening gown. That said, the later Roger movies certainly have their moments and I am a huge fan of TLD. Although an admirer of Dalton, LTK has never quite done it for me. I'll skip over the Brozza films for politeness sake and jump to CR, which was okay but too long and humourless. QoS I quite liked, but hardly classic Bond.

TSWLM was the last truly "classic" Bond film I guess, as the later ones might be classic to certain Bond fans, but, to the general public, TSWLM was the last truly memorable Bond film. It was also the last one to have a unique style. MR, the 80's, and beyond films weren't really that unique in terms of sets and villains, although I do quite like Franz Sanchez.

Getafix wrote:

I am amused by your admirably unfashionable taste in Labour politicians. He was of course immensely popular with the electorate, although that didn't stop people deciding it was 'time for a change'.

I never said I was in love with the man. He could have been better, but he wasn't exactly the bottom of the barrel for PMs.

00Beast

Getafix wrote:

00Beast wrote:

Getafix wrote:

Dr Metz, why do you use a picture of Jim Callaghan? I'm impressed and intrigued! Is it an oblique reference to the last 'great' Bond - TSWLM - which coincided with Jim's premierhsip? Or is it a declaration of political affiliations? Either way, I approve.

Last great Bond? How about FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE, TND, TWINE, CR, or QoS? Just asking, not trying to be mean here, but why don't you think of the others as great?

TSWLM is IMO the last truly great Bond film. I'm interested in the production design and appearance of the films as much as anything, and Ken Adam's sets are fantastic. Rog has by this film fully hit his stride and I've always been a bit of a sucker for Barbara Bach in a clingy evening gown. That said, the later Roger movies certainly have their moments and I am a huge fan of TLD. Although an admirer of Dalton, LTK has never quite done it for me. I'll skip over the Brozza films for politeness sake and jump to CR, which was okay but too long and humourless. QoS I quite liked, but hardly classic Bond.

Well, I guess that makes sense to enjoy the "classic" Bonds more than the newer ones. However, I couldn't fathom skipping over the Brosnan era. Except for DAD, it's so great!

Dr_Metz

00Beast wrote:

[Well, I guess that makes sense to enjoy the "classic" Bonds more than the newer ones. However, I couldn't fathom skipping over the Brosnan era. Except for DAD, it's so great!

How do you explain TND and TWINE being "great"? They aren't terrible films, but still....

Getafix

For reasons expanded on elsewhere I can't stand Brozza. Mainly because, IMO, he has no screen presence. I appreciate many see it differently, but for me Brozza is an actor for flawed, slippery and weak characters - he is great in the Ghost Writer and Taylor of Panama. As somone pointed out above, he never looks convincing as Bond- I always felt like I was watching a male catalogue model who had accidently wandered onto the set. His entrance as a 'banker' at Carver's party at the start of TND sums it up for me - he looks lost, forlorn and out of place, wandering aimlessly looking for someone to talk to.

00Beast

Dr_Metz wrote:

00Beast wrote:

[Well, I guess that makes sense to enjoy the "classic" Bonds more than the newer ones. However, I couldn't fathom skipping over the Brosnan era. Except for DAD, it's so great!

How do you explain TND and TWINE being "great"? They aren't terrible films, but still....

Both have explosive action, dangerous villains (Carver, Renard, Stamper, Elektra), Pierce Brosnan in two epic performances with many memorable scenes (killing of Kaufman and Elektra), amazing locations (Hamburg, Baku), and good scores.

Baltimore_007

If you want to see Brosnan in a decent and adventure filled part before his Bond time you could do worse than check out The Fourth Protocol for instance, even the LawnMower Man wasn't that bad, well it was, but it had Brosnan in it and he did OK, It's a shame he was tied up with his Remington Steel work at the time as I would of been quite interested to see how he would of fared in Daylights if he had been able, not that it's that big of an issue as Dalton did a fine job anyway but there you are

002

people say that Casino Royale was the turn around of Bond but if you look at the film closely- its nothing more than 2 hours of stunts, people playing poker and an overrated actor in speedos.

Brosnan is the one who saved Bond in the 90s- goldeneye was a triphaunt

SJK91

Getafix wrote:

For reasons expanded on elsewhere I can't stand Brozza. Mainly because, IMO, he has no screen presence. I appreciate many see it differently, but for me Brozza is an actor for flawed, slippery and weak characters - he is great in the Ghost Writer and Taylor of Panama. As somone pointed out above, he never looks convincing as Bond- I always felt like I was watching a male catalogue model who had accidently wandered onto the set. His entrance as a 'banker' at Carver's party at the start of TND sums it up for me - he looks lost, forlorn and out of place, wandering aimlessly looking for someone to talk to.

Quite harsh, but I do agree to an extent. Brosnan, as he has said himself, never nailed the Bond role. He was always wondering about, changing the character and inconsistently playing the role. Brosnan's Bond in GoldenEye is nearly unrecognizable from the Bond he was in Die Another Day...or Tomorrow Never Dies, even! (Although I do think that Brosnan is better at being smarmy, a la TND and DAD, than he is at being dramatic a la GE and TWINE.)

GoldenEye was Brosnan's best film bar none, but it was not because of Brosnan. As a matter of fact, I think Brosnan holds the film back from being great. Not to say that Brosnan's performance is abominable, but I never thought he was much of anything. His performance is just middle of the road. The closest we got to something interesting in GoldenEye was Brosnan wiping his face off with the towel after he beat up that thug on the yacht.

GoldenEye is saved by its supporting cast (especially Sean Bean), a generally interesting plot and good action. GoldenEye is a very good Bond film, but for every reason other than Brosnan. (All this being my opinion, that is.)

BAIN123

I thought he was good in The Fourth Protocol. A nasty character but wasn't trying too hard to be tough ala Taffin.

Baltimore_007

From what I can remember Brosnan played a rogue Soviet agent sent to set off a nuclear device at a US air base in the UK, Brosnan was straight faced all the way through and did some nasty acts of violence, I prefer him when he's playing good guys though, he's not really suited as a menacing sort I feel sometimes

Getafix

I thought he was fairly menacing as the dodgy agent in the Tailor of Panama - not physically dangerous but so morally corrupt that he might do anything.

BAIN123

I disagree that Broz never looked convincing as Bond or never had a major screen presence. True he was a bit on the puny side in GE but I didn't have trouble believing him in the scene with the thug on the boat. It's a quick scene where Broz demonstrates his agility.

However I do agree he look better and more imposing in TND. For me Broz looked perfect in TND and Twine (by DAD he was starting to age).

Also I noticed Roger Moore's "oop" grunts waaay before I noticed Brosnan's ;)

Getafix

I see TND as Brozza's best film, not because of his performance but because of all his films it has more of the pace and feel of an old school Bond. The pre-title sequence is not bad, some of the opening scenes in Hamburg look good and it's relatively short. Plus the Michelle Yeoh character is relatively less annoying than other Brozza era girls.

BAIN123

Na I still think Natalya is easily his best Bond girl. Resourceful, beautiful (that little mole on her cheek...umm) and independent.

Wai Lin is ok as a "Bond equal" (way better than Jinx) but she's there strictly for her martial arts skills.

Whitaker1987

For me Goldeneye was my first ever Bond film experience at the big screen & a grand outing it has since become.

The supporting characters were all top notch & the plot was tense & kept you on the edge of your seat.

My fav characters were Ourumov & Wade glad to see Joe Don Baker in a Bond film again.

Best Brosnan Bond & simply a modern classic. Enough said.

Whitaker1987

Baltimore_007 wrote:

I was just thinking in you know when Whitaker introduced Pushkin to his HQ, he had all these great former world figures such as Napoleon, Caesar and Ghengis Khan in his hallway, well could they do that again for Skyfall, i.e. Craig gets introduced to someone and we can have Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan lined up (they could use waxworks or mannequins, although with Moore or Lazenby you wouldn't know the difference), it could be a fitting tribute to the series to have them all lined up like before, it's something I wouldn't mind seeing

Interesting thought & thanks for mentioning Whitaker's so called heroes. I think it would be an odd & tough scene to add to Skyfall but you never know what Sam Mendes & co are planning.

I think in DAD the old props scene was handled carefully but for Skyfall I think it be best to stick with making a good no nonsense Bond.

MajorDSmythe

GoldenEye isn't the worst Bond film, it just suffers from one vital, crippling flaw: Brosnan. He just can't pull of the more quieter, less action heavy scenes in the film. Oh he may have brough more $$$$'s to Bond, but that's all. His films didn't take the series off in any one direction. I may not be a fan of the way Moore decided to play Bond, but I can at least appreciated that he tried to do something different, the same can't be said of Brosnan. If he really cared for the role as his fans claim, then why didn't he at least try and fight to get some controll of his films and contribute. No wait, i'm wrong, Brosnan contributed the tie strightening in TWINE. Maybe if Brosnan had made a 5th, Babs might have let him fetch the tea. His complete lack of presence doesn't help, he doesn't own the screen when he on it. In one of the best moments of the film, Mishkin refers to him as Commander Bond. Commander of what exactly, a sweet shop?

When Dalton took on the role, he knew what he wanted to do, and did it. It may not have been a popular direction, and it may not have given the series it's most financially sound film, but he at least he tried to do something different, and TLD & LTK are obviously heading in a fresh direction. Brosnan only decided to speak up when it looked like he wasn't coming back for film #5. Smooth, very smooth.

BAIN123

I think Brozza spoke up several times during his time as Bond. From what I've heard TWINE was partly a result of Brozza claiming he wasn't being given enough to work with.

Say what u like about TWINE but I dont think his performance in that is that bad. True there are some "off" moments but I think he's more commanding than he was in GE.

Dr_Metz

BAIN123 wrote:

I thought he was good in The Fourth Protocol. A nasty character but wasn't trying too hard to be tough ala Taffin.

Speaking of Taffin;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXcgt6l_LcA

SJK91

Dr_Metz wrote:

BAIN123 wrote:

I thought he was good in The Fourth Protocol. A nasty character but wasn't trying too hard to be tough ala Taffin.

Speaking of Taffin;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXcgt6l_LcA

Then maybe you shouldn't be living HEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!

MajorDSmythe

I see usualy any question of Brosnans lack of ability to go darker, is often met with the reply of The Tailor Of Panama. Now i've seen TTOP, and I have to say that Brosnan just can't do tough. The same goes for The Fourth Protocol.


And don't anyone knock Taffin, that is the finest acting i've ever seen... from Brosnan.

BAIN123

I liked him in TOP. He was a sleazy bastard who didn't give a crap. I think he CAN be tough in small doses but that's it - SMALL doses. The killing of Kaulfman in TND showed that.

fire_and_ice

I rate brosnan movie's last, GE was a film of its time, can only reflect the decade it was in. think its the best of the pierce tenure. it has its obvious failings though its a well made movie. GE to me is the film that rebooted the series. you have a pre and post GE bond movie, that's down to the individuals who were involved in the making of the movie's.

BAIN123

All Bond film's are "film's of their time" though. I was watching LTK today and the influences from the 80s plot wise and production wise are obvious.

MajorDSmythe

BAIN123 wrote:

All Bond film's are "film's of their time" though. I was watching LTK today and the influences from the 80s plot wise and production wise are obvious.

LTK looks fine. It's GoldenEye that looks like a tv movie, so bland and drab. It's look is the least of GE's troubles, though.

BAIN123

LTK does look quite cheap. I was watching it today. GE looks dated too but at least that has better looking, more detailed sets.

What about the scene when Bond and Pam are in the speed boat and its pitch black one second and dawn the next? Or the references to Pan Am? Or the unexotic hotel?

fire_and_ice

BAIN123 wrote:

All Bond film's are "film's of their time" though. I was watching LTK today and the influences from the 80s plot wise and production wise are obvious.

Lethal weapon comes to mind.