Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (30th June 2023)

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  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,034
    They were making Willie the anti-thesis of Marion. Marion was tough and could handle herself. They made Willie a prima-donna and it worked well. Short Round was a character as a kid I really liked. He was almost a surrogate for all the kids in the audience watching. I remember liking and cheering for the fight between him and the evil little child.

  • This proves one should never believe critics. I love this film. Not sure what the arty farty crtics are on about.Million times better than Skull even though that has good moments in it.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,447
    This proves one should never believe critics. I love this film. Not sure what the arty farty crtics are on about.Million times better than Skull even though that has good moments in it.

    It's not even the critics but the basement dwelling YouTubers giving it a bad rap. I feel that in today's society, that holds more weight than critics
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 310
    The general consensus is Dial of Destiny is flopping. However, stateside/and in Canada it did open bigger than No Time To Die. 60.4 million opening vs NTTD US/Canada opening of 55.2 million.

    Will DOD match NTTD's worldwide gross 774.2 million? Maybe not!
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,447
    bondywondy wrote: »
    The general consensus is Dial of Destiny is flopping. However, stateside/and in Canada it did open bigger than No Time To Die. 60.4 million opening vs NTTD US/Canada opening of 55.2 million.

    Will DOD match NTTD's worldwide gross 774.2 million? Maybe not!

    That's an almost 2 year difference. People weren't flocking to the movies yet.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,601
    bondywondy wrote: »
    The general consensus is Dial of Destiny is flopping. However, stateside/and in Canada it did open bigger than No Time To Die. 60.4 million opening vs NTTD US/Canada opening of 55.2 million.

    Will DOD match NTTD's worldwide gross 774.2 million? Maybe not!

    I don't see it happening.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    We’ll have to see how its legs are, which will be indicated by the second weekend gross. For comparison sake, FALLOUT opened at $61m, so it’s not like Indiana Jones can’t pull that off.

    However, that’s still a huge drop from CRYSTAL SKULL. In spite of its reputation on the internet, that film was a much bigger hit with audiences in 2008. I think part of that was GenX parents bringing their kids along to see their cinematic childhood hero on the screen.

  • i enjoyed the Flash as well as.Indy 5 so i hope Hollywood keeps making these so called ”flops“.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    edited July 2023 Posts: 468
    Box-office for the Bond movies is, compared to most movies, stronger "internationally" (they're almost always huge hits in the UK for instance) compared to what it is in the US (and Canada).

    Skyfall: 26.6% ("domestic")/73.4% ("international")
    Spectre: 22.7/77.3
    No Time to Die: 20.8/79.2

    Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: 40.1/59.9
    (Shares were similar for Last Crusade, while the domestic box-office for Raiders and Temple was higher than what it was in the rest of the world, provided of course that the stats on boxofficemojo.com are true)
  • Posts: 5,850
    In France, in a week, Indiana Jones et le Cadran de la Destinée has already attracted 1 089 875 people. Given how packed the theater was, no doubt it will attract more.

    https://www.jpbox-office.com/fichfilm.php?id=21346&view=2
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,034
    Why must we take shots at the "bottom dwelling" Youtubers. If they aren't your thing that's one thing, but no need for the name calling.

    As for the "flop". It is not a flop to have a movie open with $60 million dollars, but when the budget for said movie is $295 million it doesn't bode well for a good return. Likely a drop off in the second weekend, so if it drops by 25% that would be really strong. The Flash dropped by 70% and it will likely have trouble making it to $100 million USD.

    Indy might have legs. Old fans like me might be more likely to check out the movie after the opening weekend. The reviews aren't as terrible as other movies. So while I won't say DOD can be another Top Gun Maverick, it might surprise people and have legs in the theatres.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,601
    thedove wrote: »
    Why must we take shots at the "bottom dwelling" Youtubers. If they aren't your thing that's one thing, but no need for the name calling.

    As for the "flop". It is not a flop to have a movie open with $60 million dollars, but when the budget for said movie is $295 million it doesn't bode well for a good return. Likely a drop off in the second weekend, so if it drops by 25% that would be really strong. The Flash dropped by 70% and it will likely have trouble making it to $100 million USD.

    Indy might have legs. Old fans like me might be more likely to check out the movie after the opening weekend. The reviews aren't as terrible as other movies. So while I won't say DOD can be another Top Gun Maverick, it might surprise people and have legs in the theatres.

    "A flop" isn't in regards to its opening weekend but rather its full return over the theatrical run. With an opening like that for a film that cost over $400 million, I'll be surprised if it ends up as anything but.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,034
    Yes I heard it would have to gross around $795 million to break even. Opening with only $60 million almost guarantees it won't.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,745
    thedove wrote: »
    Yes I heard it would have to gross around $795 million to break even. Opening with only $60 million almost guarantees it won't.

    Well, so what? It is what it is and it makes what it makes. I think it deserves loads more, but that may be just me. And what if it doesn't make more...will that endanger any future Indiana Jones movie? Oh, wait, there won't be any more of that either way.

    Too bad the last one may not have any satisfactory proceeds in spite of being loved by a sizable number of viewers. Definitely including myself.
  • I did enjoy listening to the Critical Drinker and similar channels but I realised that while channels like that did raise some legitimate points that ultimately it's a hook to make money- I'm not sure he really believes a lot of what he says now about "the message". Contrast that to someone like Calvin Dyson. I'll trust his judgment on Indy 5 over your Critical Drinkers of this world.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited July 2023 Posts: 40,601
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    Yes I heard it would have to gross around $795 million to break even. Opening with only $60 million almost guarantees it won't.

    Well, so what? It is what it is and it makes what it makes. I think it deserves loads more, but that may be just me. And what if it doesn't make more...will that endanger any future Indiana Jones movie? Oh, wait, there won't be any more of that either way.

    Too bad the last one may not have any satisfactory proceeds in spite of being loved by a sizable number of viewers. Definitely including myself.

    We were discussing it being a "flop," to which I countered it really doesn't have anything to do with its opening weekend but rather the overall total. It's just a discussion that keeps coming up, nobody is framing it as a discussion of what it might mean for the future of the series.
  • Posts: 3,281
    I did enjoy listening to the Critical Drinker and similar channels but I realised that while channels like that did raise some legitimate points that ultimately it's a hook to make money- I'm not sure he really believes a lot of what he says now about "the message". Contrast that to someone like Calvin Dyson. I'll trust his judgment on Indy 5 over your Critical Drinkers of this world.

    The likes of said YouTubers like Critical Drinker are pushing a narrative, battling all that is supposedly feminism, woke, the death of the white male hero, etc. and Kathleen Kennedy is the devil in disguise.

    There is some truth in the current trend of Hollywood killing off its main hero characters (Bond, Logan, Luke and Han, etc.) or turning them into older depressing, lonely characters (Bond, Luke and Indy), while younger female protagonists steal the show from under them, so I can see where the point of view comes from, but I do think these YouTubers are pushing their agenda too far, and too extreme.

    I'm no fan of either NTTD or Last Jedi, and partly because of this Hollywood trend, and I did have fears that I wouldn't like Indy 5 either, but happily I was wrong on DOD.

    However, had they killed off Indy at the end of DOD, I would be right on the Critical Drinker bandwagon too. That would have been a step too far for me.

  • Posts: 143
    I love Dial of Destiny and after three viewings I'm ranking it as my third favorite Indy movie after Raiders and Crusade. Doom and Skull bring up the rear.

    To celebrate the new film and the whole series I've put together a music video with clips from all five films.

  • Posts: 1,726
    i enjoyed the Flash as well as.Indy 5 so i hope Hollywood keeps making these so called ”flops“.

    Interesting. I thought The Flash and DOD were at the two ends of the spectrum. DOD was terrific while the Flash was.....................................................
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    bondywondy wrote: »
    The general consensus is Dial of Destiny is flopping. However, stateside/and in Canada it did open bigger than No Time To Die. 60.4 million opening vs NTTD US/Canada opening of 55.2 million.

    Will DOD match NTTD's worldwide gross 774.2 million? Maybe not!

    Dial won’t even make $400M worldwide.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,186
    I did enjoy listening to the Critical Drinker and similar channels but I realised that while channels like that did raise some legitimate points that ultimately it's a hook to make money- I'm not sure he really believes a lot of what he says now about "the message". Contrast that to someone like Calvin Dyson. I'll trust his judgment on Indy 5 over your Critical Drinkers of this world.

    Excellent post, very true.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,168


    Indiana Jones has a panel at Comic Con this year.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 468
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    We were discussing it being a "flop," to which I countered it really doesn't have anything to do with its opening weekend but rather the overall total. It's just a discussion that keeps coming up, nobody is framing it as a discussion of what it might mean for the future of the series.

    Distributors and studios get a decreasing share of the box-office with each passing week. The figures are secret but the 50% share for both that’s often used as a reference is just an average. Studio will get 70% for instance for the first weekend then less and less.
    That’s why it’s not at all the same thing if a film gets almost all of its box-office in the first two weeks and then collapses or if it has legs and turns into a slow burn that stays at the bottom of the top 10 for three months.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 310
    Cinema is facing a sort of existential crisis? Post pandemic, I can't see how studios can make consistent profit on films with budgets in excess of 200 million dollars plus marketing costs. Maybe the cost of production vs profit margin is not workable for most high budget films. I don't get the business sense in Disney greenlighting Indiana Jones 5 if the break even number is 800 to 900 million dollars! Seems a crazy way to make films. The bar for monetary success is set too high. It feels like a broken system.

    Most films don't make a billion or more so it's not credible for Disney to say "Top Gun 2 made over a billion so Indiana Jones 5 can do the same numbers." Yeah, well in theory, but most films don't gross over a billion and fewer are going to hit a billion post coronavirus because more people will skip the theatrical release, wait 45 days or so and watch it on streaming or digital rental.

    A few films will be major box office blockbusters but I fear many mid to high budget films are never going to be hits. We're seeing many big budget films underperforming. The Flash, Ant Man 3, Black Adam, Elemental, Lightyear, Indiana Jones 5 etc. The bar to break even is too high. We have big budget films opening to 60 million dollars and that's considered a flop opening. Crazy! 60 million is still a huge amount but it's regarded as tiny compared to the vast amount needed to break even.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 205
    Take into account home-streaming rentals and similar (sometimes while a thing is still in the cinema) and there’s other revenue streams that may not be visible, but may count in the distributors bank balance. (See so,e of the strike over how streaming works…)
    Indy 5 was a legacy sequel anyway — it had been in planning/pre-production whilst still under Lucas for a number of years. How much of that was left and made it to screen, who knows.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 15,186
    Well I thought that, but I was corrected by someone pointing out that 'legacy sequel' is apparently a term which means films which more often focus on new characters and work to sort of restart the series whilst still having some original characters: so an example would be Force Awakens. DOD is more of a straightforward sequel as Indy is still the star.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 205
    mtm wrote: »
    Well I thought that, but I was corrected by someone pointing out that 'legacy sequel' is apparently a term which means films which more often focus on new characters and work to sort of restart the series whilst still having some original characters: so an example would be Force Awakens. DOD is more of a straightforward sequel as Indy is still the star.

    I’m using Legacy Sequel here in terms that it is a production inherited during the takeover, and is a sequel.
    Tbh usually Legacy Sequel just usually means a sequel that’s to quite an old property, the whole ‘adding new characters’ thing is a fairly recent use of the word. Grows out of sequels having ‘legacy’ characters, which again is confusing in a way. Is ‘Grease 2’ not a straightforward sequel because the only returning actors/characters are bit parts? Is it an early example of a ‘Legacy Sequel’? What about Predator 2 with *no* returning characters — pure sequel, all others legacy sequels unless they have the same protagonist/actors? Alien Resurrection has *one* returning star, but is not playing the exact same character… was Phantom Menace a Legacy Prequel? What about when we get a sequel that contradicts other sequels, but keeps or shares cast and production members, or returns them? Halloween? Terminator: Dark Fate?

    The hoops we jump through sometimes eh?

    Thinking about it, every Bond film from OHMSS or DAF on, and certainly LALD might technically be a legacy sequel, with an absolute definite for TLD on because that Bond really *cannot* be the same from Dr. No because of age alone, but there’s Q, our legacy character. Does Judi remaining as M make the Craig era Legacy Sequel or reboot?

    It’s a handy phrase for describing the recent glut of franchises, but we never really saw it applied to early ones — Tron Legacy (oh the irony) or even Jurassic World at its release. After a while it becomes a bit… nebulous as a description.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Logged in here after a while to see the opinions on Indy 5, and I'm glad many of us think the film is at least decent.

    I have some objections (lack of Spielberg's direction, it's 20 minutes too long), but it has the Indiana Jones look and feel, and that's what matters to me. I unfortunately haven't felt that with Bond films lately.

    Not better than the first 3, but easily beats KOTCS.
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