Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (30th June 2023)

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  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns The Bright Side of the Road.
    Posts: 19,421
    mtm wrote: »
    'Truck! What truck!' which Bond film's are better than Raiders... if any?

    I love Bond, but for me the answer is: none of ‘em.
    Bond is a brilliant series of course, but Indy has produced three pretty much perfectly-hewn films, where Bond has been a lot more variable. And I’d say Raiders is a bona fide perfect movie: not sure Bond has quite produced any of those. Maybe Goldfinger and Casino Royale come the closest.

    Totally agree Raiders... is a Masterpiece shot for shot its phenomenal.

    OHMSS is probably the closest Bond film to a Masterpiece for me, I love FRWL and TB also.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2022 Posts: 12,067
    Yep fair enough, good choices; but Raiders still has the edge over those for me to be honest.
    The only way I can fault it is that it fails to set up Indy’s “don’t look at the Ark” advice. But other than that, I think it’s flawless, and actually excels in pretty much every department.
    If I were to compare OHMSS, well I love it, but Lazenby is no Ford. Only Connery and Craig come close (sorry Roger; I love you!).
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 488
    Are you people really gonna argue about religions? Didn't you have enough with what happened on the Bond actors suggestions thread?
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns The Bright Side of the Road.
    edited December 2022 Posts: 19,421
    mtm wrote: »
    Yep fair enough, good choices; but Raiders still has the edge over those for me to be honest.
    The only way I can fault it is that it fails to set up Indy’s “don’t look at the Ark” advice. But other than that, I think it’s flawless, and actually excels in pretty much every department.
    If I were to compare OHMSS, well I love it, but Lazenby is no Ford. Only Connery and Craig come close (sorry Roger; I love you!).

    The truck chase is hands down the best live action sequence in cinema in Raiders.... Ford is only bestest by Connery for screen charisma in this kind of role, Steve McQueen is in the mix in modern cinema.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited December 2022 Posts: 21,994
    Are you people really gonna argue about religions? Didn't you have enough with what happened on the Bond actors suggestions thread?

    No one is arguing about religion. Surely we're allowed to figure out where Indiana Jones might stand on religion given his experiences.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2022 Posts: 7,573
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Are you people really gonna argue about religions? Didn't you have enough with what happened on the Bond actors suggestions thread?

    No one is arguing about religion. Surely we're allowed to figure out where Indiana Jones might stand on religion given his experiences.

    Yeah, nobody was really arguing except for the people arguing about whether people were arguing.

    All I was doing was tying @Risico007's comments into the arc that was clearly present in the first three films and why they worked well for me in comparison with the more sci-fi stuff present in the last film. It's really not that big of a deal, and certainly shouldn't open up any cans with worms in them! :)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Given the circumstances
    Posts: 7,346
    I'll admit "dial of destiny" is growing on me in a way that bond 25 never did.
  • Posts: 3,063
    'Truck! What truck!' which Bond film's are better than Raiders... if any?

    None. But I do remember enjoying TLD more than Temple of Doom in the cinema (watched them both for the first time during the same week).
  • Posts: 5,424
    I love 'Raiders', but Bond is always better for me!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,573
    Zekidk wrote: »
    'Truck! What truck!' which Bond film's are better than Raiders... if any?

    None. But I do remember enjoying TLD more than Temple of Doom in the cinema (watched them both for the first time during the same week).

    That's a damn good week.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 418
    At least, it's not the butt-dialing of destiny.
  • fadetoblack7fadetoblack7 Chicago IL
    Posts: 54
    I’d say that Raiders and Casino Royale are damn near tied for my favorite film of all time
  • Posts: 1,413
    "Well made film" and "favorite film" are not the same thing.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 12,067
    I have no issue with plot ideas for KOTCS. Totally fine with Indy discovering that ancient aliens visited Earth in the past. Totally fine with all the allusions to 50s pop culture cinema. I do love that image of Indy’s silhouette against the mushroom cloud to signal Indy entering a new era.

    I just wish the screenwriting was better. I don’t even blame David Koepp because I understand he was tasked with trying to please three different people (Lucas, Ford, and Spielberg) that had different sensibilities by cramming a bunch of different plot elements from entirely different scripts into one. It’s a mess. There’s baffling things like introducing a jungle plowing machine and doing NOTHING fun with it. You expect a commie is gonna get thrown into that grinder or something. But Indy just straight up blows it with a bazooka.

    I think what hurts it most is that it’s made by Spielberg because it’s clear his heart wasn’t in it. He was no longer that same guy who made the first three films. As much as I want to see the band get back together, I don’t think they have it anymore. So that’s partly why I’m intrigued about Indy 5 because with new filmmakers involved there’s at least potential for something better. But we’ll see.

    An enormous problem with KOTCS is that the motivations are all over the place. In Last Crusade, Indy goes to rescue his father who has been captured and seems to be in serious danger, and also we're shown that the power of the grail is something which absolutely resonates with him in the scene with Marcus in Henry's house.
    In Skull, on the other hand, a kid he doesn't know turns up and asks for his help in rescuing a guy Indy used to know a couple of decades ago (who he thought was pretty boring at the time) on the request of a woman called Mary he can't remember. In order to try and track down a fabled city of gold he doesn't believe exists, and has something to do with crystal skulls which he doesn't find very interesting. This is not how you set up a quest movie, and all of the stakes which were done so well in Crusade have gone out of the window. Indy doesn't care so why should we?

    Note incidentally that when they do get the skull from the Russians after the jungle chase later in the movie, they continue on to return it to the aliens' spaceship. But... we don't really know why (Oxley wants to but is mad, Mac wants to find the city and lots of gold, and Indy is presumably just curious to have a look I guess), but they have a platoon of Russian soldiers after them; why not just chuck the thing in the river and go home? That would stop any plans Spalko has dead. There are more compelling reasons to stop than there are to keep going, but the script doesn't give strong reasons as to why anyone would care. There's a bit after the 'three waterfalls' sequence where they climb out of the water and Mutt has two lines; he says: "We got to go through that waterfall!" and then seconds later when Indy says he'll return the skull, Mutt replies "Who cares?"....!! If the writer can't decide if Mutt wants to go or not, why should we be bothered? It's so odd.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,201
    We didn't need an Indy 4. Do we need an Indy 5? Maybe.
  • Posts: 140
    We didn't need a Bond 4. Did we need 21 more? Yes.

    Honestly we should have had a dozen Indy movies by now.


  • edited December 2022 Posts: 64
    What do people think of the trailer? It looks OK but I think mission impossible dead reckoning looks better.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns The Bright Side of the Road.
    Posts: 19,421

    Ford's reactions are funny, he briefly comments on the Indy 5 trailer.
  • I’d say that Raiders and Casino Royale are damn near tied for my favorite film of all time

    I feel exactly the same
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,778
    mtm wrote: »
    Yep fair enough, good choices; but Raiders still has the edge over those for me to be honest.
    The only way I can fault it is that it fails to set up Indy’s “don’t look at the Ark” advice. But other than that, I think it’s flawless, and actually excels in pretty much every department.
    If I were to compare OHMSS, well I love it, but Lazenby is no Ford. Only Connery and Craig come close (sorry Roger; I love you!).

    The truck chase is hands down the best live action sequence in cinema in Raiders.... Ford is only bestest by Connery for screen charisma in this kind of role, Steve McQueen is in the mix in modern cinema.

    Damn straight! A fantastic sequence that left my mouth agape when I saw it at the cinema age 14.

    I only watched Raiders again a few nights ago, and it really is a perfect film. And unbelievable how much they cram into less than 2 hours.

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,376
    To be honest I think each of the first three Indiana Jones are perfect.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 21,994
    Denbigh wrote: »
    To be honest I think each of the first three Indiana Jones are perfect.

    I rank them
    1) Temple
    2) Raiders
    3) Crusade

    TTOD is my favourite film in the series. I love the darker vibes of the film, the action, the score -- Oh that score! -- and the setting. Criticism is often aimed at Willie, ShortRound and the plot, but I don't mind them at all.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2022 Posts: 7,573
    Short Round is great.
  • Posts: 140
    Don't know if I've ever posted my Indy rankings here before.

    1. Raiders of the Lost Ark ****
    2. The Last Crusade *** 1/2
    3. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull ***
    4. Temple of Doom ***

    These are my personal favorites and doesn't necessarily reflect the quality of the movies. For example ToD is a better made film than KotCS but it's so dark and isn't as much fun as the others. Also TLC is a bit of a retread of RotLA but the addition of Sean Connery and his chemistry with Ford just elevates the film. KotCS is the weakest film of the series but I still think its a good film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,238
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    To be honest I think each of the first three Indiana Jones are perfect.

    I rank them
    1) Temple
    2) Raiders
    3) Crusade

    TTOD is my favourite film in the series. I love the darker vibes of the film, the action, the score -- Oh that score! -- and the setting. Criticism is often aimed at Willie, ShortRound and the plot, but I don't mind them at all.

    So I'm not the only one! I shared my ranking when I did a marathon of the films earlier this year and didn't think I found anybody who had the same ranking, let alone thought Temple was the best. Its darker tone is one of my favorite aspects.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,838
    RAIDERS is objectively the best, but TEMPLE is my clear favorite.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 3,036
    I’m glad to see that all Indy movies are at least respected on this thread. They all have their ups and downs. Accept for Raiders, arguably. There are no real problems with that movie. Crystal Skull has a decent villain in Cate Blanchett. Hopefully the next cast can be great as well.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,778
    Denbigh wrote: »
    To be honest I think each of the first three Indiana Jones are perfect.

    I'm not a huge fan of the sequels. I don't even own them on any medium.

    Temple Of Doom is childish even with all the heart removing stuff. And I can't abide child sidekicks.

    Last Crusade is a little better, but just a rehash of Raiders. Connery is great, but turning Marcus into a buffoon was unforgivable.

    Crystal Skull had it's moments, but it was mostly jaw droppingly bad.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,838
    Short Round is how you do child sidekicks right.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper By the powers *in*vested in me by this parish, I hereby do commandeer this message board
    Posts: 7,119
    Short Round is how you do child sidekicks right.
    Yeah, I liked Short Round...he was annoying, but he was meant to be annoying. I just (within the last two weeks) watched The Goonies for the first time, and the actor was just as annoying, but once again he was supposed to.

    Let's also accept that whatever one expects from Spielberg movies, this is the only IJ film with a child sidekick.
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