Legal Problems: The rough transition from Licence to Kill to GoldenEye

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  • Posts: 11,189
    Aww...poor LTK
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Aww...poor LTK

    Good god... GE is the only film in the franchise to have grossed twice as more at the box office than it's immediate predecessor !!
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Aww...poor LTK

    Good god... GE is the only film in the franchise to double the gross of it's immediate predecessor !!

    Rightly so ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Aww...poor LTK

    Good god... GE is the only film in the franchise to double the gross of it's immediate predecessor !!

    Rightly so ;)

    I agree. But still, poor Dalton.
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Aww...poor LTK

    Good god... GE is the only film in the franchise to double the gross of it's immediate predecessor !!

    Rightly so ;)

    I agree. But still, poor Dalton.

    Yeah I know :(
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,694
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dalton holds the honor of being the only Bond actor to have made a non-Bond film that outgrossed one of his Bond outings (it even outgrossed both his outings put together). 8->
  • Posts: 278
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Aww...poor LTK

    Good god... GE is the only film in the franchise to have grossed twice as more at the box office than it's immediate predecessor !!

    Actually, even more strange is that YOLT grossed only half of its immediate predecessor Thunderball.
    Strange in the fact that the Connery period is always taken as the most solid and this would have been a drastic concern in 1967.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,694
    dchantry wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Aww...poor LTK

    Good god... GE is the only film in the franchise to have grossed twice as more at the box office than it's immediate predecessor !!

    Actually, even more strange is that YOLT grossed only half of its immediate predecessor Thunderball.
    Strange in the fact that the Connery period is always taken as the most solid and this would have been a drastic concern in 1967.

    I just noticed it too ! Strange that it isn't talked more often... I mean, it's pretty alarming that a film would gross not even half what its immediate predecessor did.

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,904
    I don't believe Dalton was pushed, there I said it. Though the head of MGM wouldn't green ight the next film, up to that point as far as EON were concerned Dalton was still on for Bond. knowing that another Bond wouldn't get made under his watch, Dalton took a hit for the team and departed. No hissy fits, no f-bomb atatcks he just walked away.

    Ticket sales and attendance might have improved with Brosnan, but that's all.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,694
    Ticket sales and attendance might have improved with Brosnan, but that's all.

    They didn't just improved... they doubled !! :-?
  • Posts: 4,813
    Went ahead and changed the title-- just to keep the thread going! B-)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,694
    Just for the record, the highest grossing film that a Bond actor has ever appeared in (Bond outings and non-Bond films included) is Toy Story 3 for Dalton, so he isn't completly damned by the box office.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2012 Posts: 13,350
    Just for the record, the highest grossing film that a Bond actor has ever appeared in (Bond outings and non-Bond films included) is Toy Story 3 for Dalton, so he isn't completly damned by the box office.

    Yeah, just don't show his face! :-))
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,694
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Just for the record, the highest grossing film that a Bond actor has ever appeared in (Bond outings and non-Bond films included) is Toy Story 3 for Dalton, so he isn't completly damned by the box office.

    Yeah, just don't show his face! :-))

    lol don't be harsh on poor Tim :)>-
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 278
    dchantry wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Aww...poor LTK

    Good god... GE is the only film in the franchise to have grossed twice as more at the box office than it's immediate predecessor !!

    Actually, even more strange is that YOLT grossed only half of its immediate predecessor Thunderball.
    Strange in the fact that the Connery period is always taken as the most solid and this would have been a drastic concern in 1967.

    I just noticed it too ! Strange that it isn't talked more often... I mean, it's pretty alarming that a film would gross not even half what its immediate predecessor did.

    Actually makes you think that all those years back, the decision to quit by Connery may not have been as one way as we always thought. That is a massive drop.
  • Posts: 1,497
    dchantry wrote:
    Actually makes you think that all those years back, the decision to quit by Connery may not have been as one way as we always thought. That is a massive drop.

    That's an interesting point. Although it's been reported that Connery was already sick of the role while on set of YOLT.

    Another interesting trend I noticed: all Bond actors's second film didn't do as well at the box office as their first (excluding Connery and Lazenby). Roger Moore, like Dalton, has a considerable drop from his first to his second. Also like Dalton, his third film was delayed. It's interesting the producers didn't try to switch things up actor-wiseafter Golden Gun, which makes me think they always have considerable faith in their leads. Perhaps they still felt strongly about Dalton for those hiatus years 89-94.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    dchantry wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Aww...poor LTK

    Good god... GE is the only film in the franchise to have grossed twice as more at the box office than it's immediate predecessor !!

    Actually, even more strange is that YOLT grossed only half of its immediate predecessor Thunderball.
    Strange in the fact that the Connery period is always taken as the most solid and this would have been a drastic concern in 1967.

    I just noticed it too ! Strange that it isn't talked more often... I mean, it's pretty alarming that a film would gross not even half what its immediate predecessor did.

    Well, considering TB is a Bondtastic romping masterpiece, and YOLT is a despicable, trashy, and forgettable(thank god!!!) Bond adventure, it isn't hard to imagine at all. And TB was when Bondmania really hit it big. Double bills at cinemas, merchandise out the boot, and fans of all ages watching the films.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    JBFan626 wrote:
    dchantry wrote:
    Actually makes you think that all those years back, the decision to quit by Connery may not have been as one way as we always thought. That is a massive drop.

    That's an interesting point. Although it's been reported that Connery was already sick of the role while on set of YOLT.

    Another interesting trend I noticed: all Bond actors's second film didn't do as well at the box office as their first (excluding Connery and Lazenby). Roger Moore, like Dalton, has a considerable drop from his first to his second. Also like Dalton, his third film was delayed. It's interesting the producers didn't try to switch things up actor-wiseafter Golden Gun, which makes me think they always have considerable faith in their leads. Perhaps they still felt strongly about Dalton for those hiatus years 89-94.

    EON wouldn't have dropped Moore just because his 2nd film underperformed. EON can do stupid things, but that would've been unbelievably imbecilic. I'm not a fan of his Bond, but Moore's "fun" touch to Bond let the door in for fans in the 70s and 80s and appeared to make the rough times in the span much lighter with the uppity nature of his portrayal. I even have to give Rog credit for that, and he's a nice chap to boot.
  • Posts: 11,425
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    At the risk of being flamed by my fellow fans, you seem to have gotten off point. The chat was to be about what happened during the long hiatus not whether Dalts was a good Bond or great actor.

    My take on the original thread subject: the studio had wanted to sell pieces of the franchise piecemeal and Cubby filed an injunction halting this and they went to court. (Not sure of what the studio was doing but they were up to some shady crap)

    They were battling all these years in the courts, Dalton was still planning on starring in a third Bond film. However when it all setteled in 1994, Dalton lost interest and thus decided to move on.

    I guess it's okay for some fans and former Bonds to trash Tim, but I for one feel that his two films were better than all four Brozzas (and some of Moore's as well)

    Love the way you start by getting things back on message and then go back to talking about how great Dalts was. Totally agree with you though. Brozza era seems like a gradually fading nightmare.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,998
    dchantry wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Aww...poor LTK

    Good god... GE is the only film in the franchise to have grossed twice as more at the box office than it's immediate predecessor !!

    Actually, even more strange is that YOLT grossed only half of its immediate predecessor Thunderball.
    Strange in the fact that the Connery period is always taken as the most solid and this would have been a drastic concern in 1967.

    I just noticed it too ! Strange that it isn't talked more often... I mean, it's pretty alarming that a film would gross not even half what its immediate predecessor did.

    The problem is Bond's success led to many other spy films which cannibalized YOLT.
  • Posts: 13
    Thanks for the diagram DaltonCraig007!

    These are comparable figures. CR made the most dollars, but you cannot compare the value of the dollar nowadays with the value 50 years ago.
    That is one thing Iike here in Germany, the success of movies is measured in the number of ticket sales. These numbers are comparable over decades.

    Dalton's interpretation of Bond is my favourite. Although it wasn't the time for a more serious approach just 2 years after Moore. PB and DC got much longer time for the normal audiences to forget the previous actor and tone.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 774
    A drop of 85 million between TB and YOLT? Wow. Never though YOLT was great, knew it wasn't as wildy popular, but that really hammers it home.
  • Posts: 1,407
    Would the release of CR67 have had anything to do with YOLT dropping so far. Maybe people were confused? :)
  • Posts: 278
    bondbat007 wrote:
    Would the release of CR67 have had anything to do with YOLT dropping so far. Maybe people were confused? :)

    I wouldn't be surprised, every time I watch CR67 it makes me confused

    :))
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I am coming round to the opinion that the 6 year gap probably actually saved the series.

    After the - lets be frank - dismal box office of LTK and general lack of enthusiasm for Dalton (particularly stateside) I cant see how another film in 91, probably directed by John Glen would have arrested the downward trend.

    A worse return than LTK would have seen Dalts unceremoniously fired and Brozza brought in in 93 but with an atomsphere of public apathy behind him and a general attitude that Bond had had his day. Unless Bond 93 had been spectacular and word of mouth had got people into the cinema would it have done enough business to save the series? And lets not forget after LTK and another dud in 91, the studio would have given Bond 93 a miniscule budget.

    As it is the 6 year hiatus gave Dalton the chance to go (or be pushed) with his head held high and more importantly made the public realise that John Mcclane and Martin Riggs whilst fun, really didnt deliver the same experience so consqeuently people were very hungry for the new Bond in 95. The gap also pruned out a lot of the old guard who had been working on the series since the 60s and I'm sure to an extent were coasting and thought Bond was a job for life. Dont get me wrong I'm grateful to people like John Glen for all theyve done for the series but we needed a shot in the arm of fresh blood and whatever you think of them the likes of Broz, Babs, Martin Campbell, Daniel Kleinmann, David Arnold, Simon Crane and Gary Powell delivered what was needed in the 90s to get the series back on its feet and ensure that it would continue. Lets not forget that none of Glen, Maibaum, Barry, Adam, Binder or Simmons has worked on a Bond film for over 23 years now. Thats almost half of the series in time even if not in number of releases. And even Cubby has been absent for the last 16 years so the new blood at least needs credit for taking us to the 50 year mark.

    I think history could well look back on MGW as possibly the most important contributor to the series (after Cubby) as in addition to all his good work producing and writing in the 70s and 80s he has also overseen the transition into the new era reasonably successfully and ensured the series will continue, at least for the present. Its a shame he now seems to take a back seat to Babs and doesnt write anymore as god knows hes infinitely more talented than P&W.
  • Posts: 1,497
    nezanrf wrote:
    Thanks for the diagram DaltonCraig007!

    These are comparable figures. CR made the most dollars, but you cannot compare the value of the dollar nowadays with the value 50 years ago.
    That is one thing Iike here in Germany, the success of movies is measured in the number of ticket sales. These numbers are comparable over decades.

    The world population has nearly doubled since the mid-60's, so it's even more impressive to see the number of ticket sales Thunberball raked in.

    If I'm doing the math right, 5% of the world saw Thunderball in 1965, while 1% of the world saw CR in 2006

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