The theories of Bond films! What is your theory on the relationship between Anders and Scaramanga?

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  • Posts: 2,407
    I think Kamal is the manager of Octopussy and Madga works for her. That's all.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 22 Posts: 19,202
    Well Kamal and Octopussy are partners, but she doesn't know Kamal is double-crossing her with Orlov (she just thinks he's supplying the jewels). Magda is one of Octopussy's ladies (She's got the tattoo- plus her acrobatics at the end and working at the circus) so I guess is with Kamal as a sort of intermediary, lent to him to keep communications up between Octopussy and Kamal.
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 646
    Like brother and sister.
  • I think Magda, being Octopussy's deputy was sent the represent Octopussy in proceedings and make sure she wasn't being cheated in anyway, as well as supply any technical expertise. Evidently, she failed at her job in doing the former.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,930
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    He needs her for his public appearances. His real lover was Gobinda, but that wouldn't have come across so positively for most persons of his culture.

    OK, that's my tongue-in-cheek interpretation. ChatGTP says this:

    "In the James Bond film “Octopussy” (1983), Kamal Khan and Magda had a close but clearly hierarchical relationship:

    Magda was Kamal Khan’s accomplice and lover. She worked for him as an intermediary and seductress, for example when she lured James Bond in India.

    Her role went beyond that of a mere henchwoman – she was loyal to Khan and assisted him in his schemes (e.g., with the transport of the stolen jewelry and maintaining contact with Octopussy).

    At the same time, the relationship remained more professional than truly intimate: Khan treated Magda as a valuable ally and confidante, but she was ultimately subordinate to him.

    Over the course of the film, however, Magda shifted her loyalty. After recognizing Bond’s integrity and gaining Octopussy’s trust, she sided with them. This meant she effectively betrayed Kamal Khan.

    In short: Kamal Khan and Magda were accomplices with a mix of romance and convenience, but Magda did not remain loyal to him until the end."

    Another example of Gen. AI getting it wrong. But with Reddit as one of it's most trusted sources, what would you expect?
    mtm wrote: »
    Well Kamal and Octopussy are partners, but she doesn't know Kamal is double-crossing her with Orlov (she just thinks he's supplying the jewels). Magda is one of Octopussy's ladies (She's got the tattoo- plus her acrobatics at the end and working at the circus) so I guess is with Kamal as a sort of intermediary, lent to him to keep communications up between Octopussy and Kamal.

    They're business partners, and Octopussy clearly has leverage. When she wants Bond to be send to the island, Kamal urges her to rethink, but says 'I no from you seldom turns into a yes, so I will try no further, but you're making a grave mistake'. At that point Kamal doesn't know Bond is MI6 yet (Octopussy does). But he sends his killers in when he finds out Bond is staying at the floating palace.
    Kamal's goal is to get his hands on the historic real jewellery, as can be heard from the discussion between Orlov and Kamal in the tunnel when they switch the canister with jewellery for the bomb.
    My interpretation of Magda, hence, is indeed as liason.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,202
    Kamal's goal is to get his hands on the historic real jewellery, as can be heard from the discussion between Orlov and Kamal in the tunnel when they switch the canister with jewellery for the bomb.

    Ah okay thanks, I don't think that bit has ever sunk in for me! Pretty much as expected, but you'd really think that potentially starting a nuclear war might not be the best idea when you want to sell a few jewels!
  • I find the scene where Kamal is all subservient to Octopussy a bit odd. After all, doesn't she amount to a contractor in all of it? I suppose they wanted access to her circus so that they could get into the base but surely she'd feel suspicious about how much control she'd have?

    Here's what I remember the villains have to gain from the plot:

    Orlov: fake jewels to trick the inventory checks, bomb to create opportunity for invasion
    Khan: real jewels to sell in secret around the world
    Octopussy: fees for smuggling

    So clearly she'd be the least powerful in the relationship?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,126
    Yes both Orlov and Kamal are playing Octopussy. Kamal has worked or wormed his way into her good graces. Orlov seems to just go along with things as a means to an end. That's why I find Magda to be an interesting character.

    She has the Octopussy tattoo which indicates she is part of Octopussy's ladies. She has a role in the circus. However she has a suite at the Monsoon Palace and is seen with Kamal at a variety of settings. It would appear that Kamal was the one who told her to seduce Bond. Then at the end of the movie it would appear she gives up Kamal and sides with Octopussy. Or was she a mole or a way for Octopussy to know what's going on with Kamal? But then when they are loading the jewels into the canon. Octopussy is placated by Kamal's man being present with the Soviets. That indicates she trusts Kamal, which makes Magda's role redundant?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,930
    mtm wrote: »
    Kamal's goal is to get his hands on the historic real jewellery, as can be heard from the discussion between Orlov and Kamal in the tunnel when they switch the canister with jewellery for the bomb.

    Ah okay thanks, I don't think that bit has ever sunk in for me! Pretty much as expected, but you'd really think that potentially starting a nuclear war might not be the best idea when you want to sell a few jewels!

    tbh I only picked up on it a few days ago when I rewatched the film.
    I find the scene where Kamal is all subservient to Octopussy a bit odd. After all, doesn't she amount to a contractor in all of it? I suppose they wanted access to her circus so that they could get into the base but surely she'd feel suspicious about how much control she'd have?

    Here's what I remember the villains have to gain from the plot:

    Orlov: fake jewels to trick the inventory checks, bomb to create opportunity for invasion
    Khan: real jewels to sell in secret around the world
    Octopussy: fees for smuggling

    So clearly she'd be the least powerful in the relationship?

    To be fair, Octopussy doesn't know about the bomb. She thinks Orlov is just in it for the jewellery money (I presume). In that case, Kamal and Orlov are fully dependable on Octopussy. Moreover, is just another adventurer worth fighting over with the only person who can get your jewellery (and more importantly, the bomb) to it's place? To me it makes sense. As soon as Kamal finds out who Bond is, he sends his killers into Octopussy's palace anyway.
    thedove wrote: »
    Yes both Orlov and Kamal are playing Octopussy. Kamal has worked or wormed his way into her good graces. Orlov seems to just go along with things as a means to an end. That's why I find Magda to be an interesting character.

    She has the Octopussy tattoo which indicates she is part of Octopussy's ladies. She has a role in the circus. However she has a suite at the Monsoon Palace and is seen with Kamal at a variety of settings. It would appear that Kamal was the one who told her to seduce Bond. Then at the end of the movie it would appear she gives up Kamal and sides with Octopussy. Or was she a mole or a way for Octopussy to know what's going on with Kamal? But then when they are loading the jewels into the canon. Octopussy is placated by Kamal's man being present with the Soviets. That indicates she trusts Kamal, which makes Magda's role redundant?

    Considering Octopussy (and Magda) are only in it for the smuggling, it makes sense for Magda to liason and be close to Kamal. She's always on Octopussy's side. I think she decided to seduce Bond herself. Kamal was more inclined to take the short route, and have Bond killed ('I knew the price of eggs was going up, but isn't that a bit steep'?).

    In other words, Magda is just there to do Octopussy's bidding (and selling, and retreiving). I don't think Kamal had too much trouble giving her a spare room.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,126
    Lovely stuff folks thanks for some thoughtful posts about the relationship between these characters.

    Lets move on to an under-developed relationship that might have been more interesting in a different movie.

    I am talking Andrea Anders and Scaramanga.

    What's your theory on Andrea and Francisco?

    As seen in the movie, Ms. Anders is living the high life with Scaramanga. She seems to lack for nothing, staying in high end hotels, wearing fashions that are glamorous. Andrea is a kept woman who must run tasks for her lover. Francisco uses her for her body. She is thought to improve his aim and skill due to their love making.

    Yet when he kills her there is no remorse, no sense of love. We get no sense that she ever meant anything to him. Does this mean it doesn't really matter who he calls his lover?

    He gives Andrea freedom as she is able to steal one of his bullets, get his fingerprints on it and send it to Mi6. Obviously Francisco talks in his sleep as she's aware of Bond and his famous call number.

    So is Andrea one of many who have been on the arm of our famous assassin? Or is she a long term relationship that grew tired of her role? Clearly nobody in this relationship has any deep feelings, though I suppose wanting someone dead is a sign that you have a level of hate for your man.

    Give me your theories on Andrea Anders? Kept woman who is disposable? Or a special lady who grew tired of the lifestyle of being the plaything of Francisco Scaramanga?
  • edited September 27 Posts: 381
    Scaramanga was a psychopath, superficially charming with no conscience. I don’t see any suggestion that he had romantic attachment to Andrea. Presumably, Andrea was there for material gain, and like any employee, she fulfilled a function and performed better when happy and motivated, hence the luxury lifestyle.
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