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Would you rather watch NTTD (83%) OR TSWLM (82%)? Rotten Tomato Ranking battles!

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Comments

  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    edited 12:36pm Posts: 305
    007HallY wrote: »
    Yes, I must admit the first few times I watched TSWLM the webbed hands went over my head too!

    I suppose Stromberg's functional, and I do really like the fact that he has these little 'tricks' set up in his lair that Bond has to navigate. But I'd say Safin's more memorable. His motives become a little too cerebral by the last third of the film (ie. vague) but there's a lot going on that's compelling and quite dark.

    Too much has been made of his 'deformity'. It's being used to distract from the actual character. Stromberg actually works insofar he's functional. With him out of the picture, we can concentrate on having some actual fun but upon return there's enough bite to sting.

    NTTD has three primary villains and none of them work. I had to count them just then, so forgettable they all are. A major problem with the Craig era is the quality of villain. Mute, demure, deformed and or clownish, but crucially never enough.

  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 5,223
    AnotherZorinStooge wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Yes, I must admit the first few times I watched TSWLM the webbed hands went over my head too!

    I suppose Stromberg's functional, and I do really like the fact that he has these little 'tricks' set up in his lair that Bond has to navigate. But I'd say Safin's more memorable. His motives become a little too cerebral by the last third of the film (ie. vague) but there's a lot going on that's compelling and quite dark.

    Too much has been made of his 'deformity'. It's being used to distract from the actual character. Stromberg actually works insofar he's functional. With him out of the picture, we can concentrate on having some actual fun.

    The film is smart enough to have villains like Jaws and Naomi to keep us tittillated.

    NTTD has three primary villains and none of them work. I had to count them just then, so forgettable they all are. SF has many issues but was smart enough to have one major villain (I don't credit the pts assassin because he's a mute plot ticket), even if that villain was a clown.

    I do agree that Jaws makes up for Stromberg's shortcomings. I find both characters quite menacing and even scary at times (less so Stromberg, but the scene with him feeding his secretary to the sharks is pretty dark and I like it a lot). It would have been nice if he'd been a bit stronger as a character though, and I don't think it's fully a virtue that he's more functional than great.

    Again, I find Safin flawed, but there's something quite compelling about him.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,706
    NTTD. Only because I have seen it a lot less than TSWLM, which I think is great in its own way.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,638
    NTTD. Both lay far too heavily on sci-fi for my taste, but for I appreciate how daring NTTD was.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    edited 1:07pm Posts: 8,161
    NTTD for pretty much the same reason as @echo
    I've seen TSWLM lots of times and it is entertaining, but it's not as good as its made out to be, frequently quoted as Rogers best Bond movie, and I disagree with that!
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,964
    TSWLM.

    I don't dislike NTTD and TSWLM isn't the unqualified success that I once thought (Ms. Bach "acting" is a sore point) but I still find it very rewatchable. I have to be in certain mood for NTTD.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 1,959
    007HallY wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    TSWLM is incredibly dated, Curd Jürgens sleepwalks through his Stromberg role, Jaws isn't menacing at all because he is being played for laughs about his real-life deformity and artificial bumbling, and need we mention Barbara Bach's acting proficiency? The only thing outstanding is once again Ken Adam's work. Give me several more viewings of NTTD instead, which I consider to be a brilliant Bond movie, in spite of the ending.

    I don't necessarily agree with all that, but it does show TSWLM isn't going to be viewed as a perfect film by everyone who watches it (even I'd agree that Stromberg is a weak villain, and I'm sure if the film were done today Anya's character would be different and arguably a bit more interesting. Some of the disco music is a bit dated too, for sure). It also shows that NTTD isn't seen as a failure of a Bond film by everyone who watches it.

    I don't think it's as much a case of 'NTTD is a better film than a Bond film' either. To some extent I think that's a way of fans trying to cope with the idea that a majority of audiences enjoyed something they didn't as much (it's probably more reflective on us if anything and what we believe a Bond film needs to do ultimately, which often can become contradictory and debatable when looking at the entire series). Anyway, everyone who watches it goes in with the understanding it's a Bond film, and particularly one from the Craig era.

    I don't think NTTD really works. I have the feeling that there's a lot of footage that was cut, and it's the longest film in the franchise!

    And you get the feeling they didn't know how to kill Bond.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 5,223
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    TSWLM is incredibly dated, Curd Jürgens sleepwalks through his Stromberg role, Jaws isn't menacing at all because he is being played for laughs about his real-life deformity and artificial bumbling, and need we mention Barbara Bach's acting proficiency? The only thing outstanding is once again Ken Adam's work. Give me several more viewings of NTTD instead, which I consider to be a brilliant Bond movie, in spite of the ending.

    I don't necessarily agree with all that, but it does show TSWLM isn't going to be viewed as a perfect film by everyone who watches it (even I'd agree that Stromberg is a weak villain, and I'm sure if the film were done today Anya's character would be different and arguably a bit more interesting. Some of the disco music is a bit dated too, for sure). It also shows that NTTD isn't seen as a failure of a Bond film by everyone who watches it.

    I don't think it's as much a case of 'NTTD is a better film than a Bond film' either. To some extent I think that's a way of fans trying to cope with the idea that a majority of audiences enjoyed something they didn't as much (it's probably more reflective on us if anything and what we believe a Bond film needs to do ultimately, which often can become contradictory and debatable when looking at the entire series). Anyway, everyone who watches it goes in with the understanding it's a Bond film, and particularly one from the Craig era.

    I don't think NTTD really works. I have the feeling that there's a lot of footage that was cut, and it's the longest film in the franchise!

    And you get the feeling they didn't know how to kill Bond.

    Ok 🤷‍♂️ I don’t fully disagree but to each their own.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,027
    I prefer Spy but it depends what mood I’m in, might do NTTD. Like everyone above I’ve seen it less so may way well go for it!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,798
    AnotherZorinStooge wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Yes, I must admit the first few times I watched TSWLM the webbed hands went over my head too!

    I suppose Stromberg's functional, and I do really like the fact that he has these little 'tricks' set up in his lair that Bond has to navigate. But I'd say Safin's more memorable. His motives become a little too cerebral by the last third of the film (ie. vague) but there's a lot going on that's compelling and quite dark.

    Too much has been made of his 'deformity'. It's being used to distract from the actual character. Stromberg actually works insofar he's functional. With him out of the picture, we can concentrate on having some actual fun but upon return there's enough bite to sting.

    NTTD has three primary villains and none of them work. I had to count them just then, so forgettable they all are. A major problem with the Craig era is the quality of villain. Mute, demure, deformed and or clownish, but crucially never enough.

    My point was why give him webbed hands and then never do anything or make anything of it, other than not wanting to shake hands. It plays to the old trope that a deformity is evil. Same with Largo having an eye patch. It is there to reinforce the villainy. Instead of doing a better job of making him villainous.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 1,959
    thedove wrote: »
    AnotherZorinStooge wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Yes, I must admit the first few times I watched TSWLM the webbed hands went over my head too!

    I suppose Stromberg's functional, and I do really like the fact that he has these little 'tricks' set up in his lair that Bond has to navigate. But I'd say Safin's more memorable. His motives become a little too cerebral by the last third of the film (ie. vague) but there's a lot going on that's compelling and quite dark.

    Too much has been made of his 'deformity'. It's being used to distract from the actual character. Stromberg actually works insofar he's functional. With him out of the picture, we can concentrate on having some actual fun but upon return there's enough bite to sting.

    NTTD has three primary villains and none of them work. I had to count them just then, so forgettable they all are. A major problem with the Craig era is the quality of villain. Mute, demure, deformed and or clownish, but crucially never enough.

    My point was why give him webbed hands and then never do anything or make anything of it, other than not wanting to shake hands. It plays to the old trope that a deformity is evil. Same with Largo having an eye patch. It is there to reinforce the villainy. Instead of doing a better job of making him villainous.

    They thought it was part of the formula. Nobody noticed it so it doesn't really matter.
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