What should the PTS be for BOND 26?

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Comments

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 6,523
    @007HallY of course the introduction counts. And I’m not talking about generic action!

    I’m talking about an action sequence in the same vein as TLD as I feel it was perfect to introduce a new actor…. I am not saying repeat TLD PTS!

    I’m saying they found a way to introduce Tim using ACTION to introduce his interpretation.

    That’s what I mean by throwing the new Bond into action (as action always speaks louder than words).
  • MI6HQMI6HQ SIS Building, London, United Kingdom
    Posts: 1,879
    007HallY wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @007HallY ... I don't have to get used to him in a seven or eight minute opener. Once the excitement from the PTS is complete, the new song plays, the action on the other side will pace itself and I will have the next two hours to get "used to this" Bond.

    Have him in an exciting PTS, whatever tone that takes, and it'll tell us all we need to know about the new 007.

    The introduction still counts. This is James Bond, not just a run of the mill action hero. The way the next Bond is first seen onscreen has to have the right impact, whether it's in the context of a big action sequence or something more low key like the CR PTS. Like I said, each Bond has had an introduction which has been tailored to them in some way (except perhaps Lazenby, which was very much in the mould of Connery's introduction), giving us an idea of what kind of Bond they are, playing to the actor's strengths etc. So I see no reason why this won't be the case with Bond 26.

    And except Roger Moore, he also didn't had a proper introduction too, so two exceptions, if you will.
  • edited November 2022 Posts: 1,266
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @007HallY ... I don't have to get used to him in a seven or eight minute opener. Once the excitement from the PTS is complete, the new song plays, the action on the other side will pace itself and I will have the next two hours to get "used to this" Bond.

    Have him in an exciting PTS, whatever tone that takes, and it'll tell us all we need to know about the new 007.

    The introduction still counts. This is James Bond, not just a run of the mill action hero. The way the next Bond is first seen onscreen has to have the right impact, whether it's in the context of a big action sequence or something more low key like the CR PTS. Like I said, each Bond has had an introduction which has been tailored to them in some way (except perhaps Lazenby, which was very much in the mould of Connery's introduction), giving us an idea of what kind of Bond they are, playing to the actor's strengths etc. So I see no reason why this won't be the case with Bond 26.

    And except Roger Moore, he also didn't had a proper introduction too, so two exceptions, if you will.

    Moore didn't get a PTS, but his introduction was very much tailored for his comedic ability. Actually, it shows you how highly the producers probably thought of Moore and their confidence in him to carry the film. As you hinted, it's not a 'proper introduction' in the classic Bond sense - no Bond in the shadows or any sort of face reveal. Nonetheless it is an introduction, and one which only Moore could have pulled off.
    peter wrote: »
    @007HallY of course the introduction counts. And I’m not talking about generic action!

    I’m talking about an action sequence in the same vein as TLD as I feel it was perfect to introduce a new actor…. I am not saying repeat TLD PTS!

    I’m saying they found a way to introduce Tim using ACTION to introduce his interpretation.

    That’s what I mean by throwing the new Bond into action (as action always speaks louder than words).

    I get that. I guess all I was saying is that beyond what the PTS itself will be they'll need to think carefully about how they introduce the next Bond within it (again, assuming Bond is even in the PTS). I just think it's different seeing a new Bond for the first time compared to doing a PTS with an actor who has been in the role for even one prior film.

    I'd argue there's much more to the TLD PTS than just Dalton being introduced with an action scene. Everything about it is specifically designed with the purpose of introducing this new Bond. You have the various deaths of the other agents, all of whom look a bit like they could conceivably be James Bond, the shot of Dalton looking around and the camera moving towards him. It's very much a 'reveal' moment, something we build up to. Even the fact that Dalton is doing much of his own stunts is something that stands out when compared to the Moore era's reliance on rather obvious stunt doubles. Oh, and the fact that the tone is distinctly darker with the agents being killed off compared to the typical later Moore openings. I agree, it's a great introduction to Dalton's Bond, but it's more than just an action sequence.
  • MI6HQMI6HQ SIS Building, London, United Kingdom
    edited November 2022 Posts: 1,879
    007HallY wrote: »
    Nonetheless it is an introduction, and one which only Moore could have pulled off.

    I think Connery could have pulled that off, showing him waking up with a sleeping woman on his arms, then the mission debriefing only the difference was it happened at his flat, I could see Connery working in that scene.

    I think the PTS of LALD also captured the Connery vibe a bit.
  • Posts: 1,266
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    I think Connery could have pulled that off, showing him waking up with a sleeping woman on his arms, then the mission debriefing only the difference was it happened at his flat, I could see Connery working in that scene.

    I think the PTS of LALD also captured the Connery vibe a bit.

    I don't think Connery's Bond would have been quite as flustered as Moore's Bond is when he's trying to hide the woman from M. It's also very distinct from the Connery films in the sense that Bond is briefed not at MI6, but at his home. The PTS is also quite distinctive because Bond doesn't actually appear at all, which is something we hadn't seen up until that point. To me, it's very much a scene written for Roger Moore, or at least a different type of Bond, weird farcical comedy and all.

    If anything, Lazenby's introduction in OHMSS seems to be trying to re-capture the spirit and visuals of Connery's from DN - Bond's face hidden in shadow, the close ups of the hands lighting the cigarette etc.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2022 Posts: 1,849
    Yes, they definitely seemed to be going for a literal 'reveal' with Lazenby. Dalton was the only other Bond to have a similar introduction, but I can see the new guy getting one next time out. I'm still hoping for Sluggsy and Horror to be thwarted in their assault of Viv Michel when the buzzer goes, they open the motel doors and a figure in silhouette steps forward out of the night and the rain...
  • edited November 2022 Posts: 1,266
    I've always said that if TSWLM is going to be adapted (which I don't think it can be faithfully due to Fleming's wishes) then it ideally should do so by having a PTS from the Bond girl's perspective (similar to the very beginning of NTTD). Again, I don't think we'll get the motel setting specifically, but you can have a similar situation in which a young woman is tangled up in a bad situation, and Bond shows up.

    Again, I don't think it can be a direct adaptation of TSWLM, nor can it just be an isolated PTS that has nothing to do with the rest of the story. There's a lot of dramatic potential in a Viv Michael type character though. I mean, what if this character got tangled in the same villain's plot later down the line for some reason? Presumably she'd go looking for Bond for help, which could be a cool premise. You could even adapt what Fleming was trying to do with TSWLM - that's to say point out that Bond can be morally ambiguous/one step away from the villains he faces, and over the course of the story the Bond girl comes to realise this and goes from seeing Bond as a straightforward 'hero' to a flawed, but ultimately brave man.
  • Something important is going down, Bond is nowhere to be found, he’s doing the waitress in the wine cellar.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 1,766
    Something important is going down, Bond is nowhere to be found, he’s doing the waitress in the wine cellar.

    If only you'd have been around for the rewrites on NTTD
  • edited November 2022 Posts: 706
    Connerys intro was the most poignant imo but it was preceded with a plot starter. It’s boring when we only follow bonds pov. but non bond pts’s are equally boring.

    My second favourite is Daniel’s intro and he is in from the get go. I think the cross-cutting is quite artsy and interesting and the brutality of the fight captivating.

    QoS is my favourite PTS of all time.
  • edited November 2022 Posts: 1,266
    @ByRoyalDecree Exactly. It's why I always say that Bond doesn't necessarily have to be in the PTS. We could see the film's plot begin during the PTS, a little build up with MI6 trying to figure out what's happened, perhaps a 'where's Bond?' type line from M or whoever, and then finally we get our introduction to the new actor. Just depends on how gripping the PTS is.

    I kind of like the idea of introducing Bond in this scenario on another mission. You could adapt the basic idea of the 'Reflections in A Double Bourbon' mission in GF and show Bond having to kill a man quite brutally (perhaps in what is otherwise a typically Bondian intro/mini adventure), sitting in the airport bar afterwards getting drunk and looking at the large bruise on his hand etc. That might tell us a bit about the next Bond.
  • LucknFateLucknFate Arkhangelsk
    Posts: 549
    peter wrote: »
    Yes, @GadgetMan ... I have a similar feeling: the goal is to forget the last guy, so I expect a short, tight PTS, in the seven to eight minute timeframe.

    Something akin to TLD/CR that shows the new guy in action. The producers will want us to know, off the hop, that we, the audience, are in good hands with the new 007.

    I think this is likely, however, I would say in both of those cases there was active public doubt about Dalton and Craig's physicality that I think each introduction answers to.

    I think an opening like Goldfinger, with a girl, quick kill, and a quip, could still be just as effective, especially if they cast someone like Caville or an actor that is immediately well-liked in the role.
  • echo wrote: »
    The PTS of Bond 26:

    Bond wakes up in shadows, a female form next to him.

    Bond: I had the oddest dream. There were missiles to my face, I had a daughter, M died, Blofeld was my brother, and strangest of all, I was blond!

    We see Bond's face. It's Brosnan.

    Woman: You always have nightmares when we sleep on the diamonds, baby.

    The woman leans in toward him. It's Jinx.

    Smash cut to titles and the latest ballad by Dame Shirley Bassey:

    Jinxes are Forever.

    Please don’t joke about such horrible things.
    I thought this was great! 😂🤣😂🤣😂
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,198
    LucknFate wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Yes, @GadgetMan ... I have a similar feeling: the goal is to forget the last guy, so I expect a short, tight PTS, in the seven to eight minute timeframe.

    Something akin to TLD/CR that shows the new guy in action. The producers will want us to know, off the hop, that we, the audience, are in good hands with the new 007.

    I think this is likely, however, I would say in both of those cases there was active public doubt about Dalton and Craig's physicality that I think each introduction answers to.

    I think an opening like Goldfinger, with a girl, quick kill, and a quip, could still be just as effective, especially if they cast someone like Caville or an actor that is immediately well-liked in the role.

    There was no doubt about Dalton's physicality.
  • LucknFateLucknFate Arkhangelsk
    edited November 2022 Posts: 549
    echo wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Yes, @GadgetMan ... I have a similar feeling: the goal is to forget the last guy, so I expect a short, tight PTS, in the seven to eight minute timeframe.

    Something akin to TLD/CR that shows the new guy in action. The producers will want us to know, off the hop, that we, the audience, are in good hands with the new 007.

    I think this is likely, however, I would say in both of those cases there was active public doubt about Dalton and Craig's physicality that I think each introduction answers to.

    I think an opening like Goldfinger, with a girl, quick kill, and a quip, could still be just as effective, especially if they cast someone like Caville or an actor that is immediately well-liked in the role.

    There was no doubt about Dalton's physicality.

    Brosnan was the clear favorite for the role at the time, which made many question the presence of Dalton, his entire presence including physicality, and it was something the filmmakers had to overcome. And I'm saying they were successful. But there was doubt around Dalton's casting.

    McWilliams – who has cast every Bond film since 1981's For Your Eyes Only – described Dalton's casting as a "very sudden event" at the BFI's In conversation: 60 years of James Bond event.

    "To be honest with you, I don't think he ever felt quite comfortable," she said. "It was so different from anything he'd ever done."


    Perhaps he even questioned it himself.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,198
    LucknFate wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Yes, @GadgetMan ... I have a similar feeling: the goal is to forget the last guy, so I expect a short, tight PTS, in the seven to eight minute timeframe.

    Something akin to TLD/CR that shows the new guy in action. The producers will want us to know, off the hop, that we, the audience, are in good hands with the new 007.

    I think this is likely, however, I would say in both of those cases there was active public doubt about Dalton and Craig's physicality that I think each introduction answers to.

    I think an opening like Goldfinger, with a girl, quick kill, and a quip, could still be just as effective, especially if they cast someone like Caville or an actor that is immediately well-liked in the role.

    There was no doubt about Dalton's physicality.

    Brosnan was the clear favorite for the role at the time, which made many question the presence of Dalton, his entire presence including physicality, and it was something the filmmakers had to overcome. And I'm saying they were successful. But there was doubt around Dalton's casting.

    McWilliams – who has cast every Bond film since 1981's For Your Eyes Only – described Dalton's casting as a "very sudden event" at the BFI's In conversation: 60 years of James Bond event.

    "To be honest with you, I don't think he ever felt quite comfortable," she said. "It was so different from anything he'd ever done."


    Perhaps he even questioned it himself.

    After AVTAK, Dalton's physicality was clearly a plus. I remember the release of TLD.
  • LucknFateLucknFate Arkhangelsk
    edited November 2022 Posts: 549
    echo wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Yes, @GadgetMan ... I have a similar feeling: the goal is to forget the last guy, so I expect a short, tight PTS, in the seven to eight minute timeframe.

    Something akin to TLD/CR that shows the new guy in action. The producers will want us to know, off the hop, that we, the audience, are in good hands with the new 007.

    I think this is likely, however, I would say in both of those cases there was active public doubt about Dalton and Craig's physicality that I think each introduction answers to.

    I think an opening like Goldfinger, with a girl, quick kill, and a quip, could still be just as effective, especially if they cast someone like Caville or an actor that is immediately well-liked in the role.

    There was no doubt about Dalton's physicality.

    Brosnan was the clear favorite for the role at the time, which made many question the presence of Dalton, his entire presence including physicality, and it was something the filmmakers had to overcome. And I'm saying they were successful. But there was doubt around Dalton's casting.

    McWilliams – who has cast every Bond film since 1981's For Your Eyes Only – described Dalton's casting as a "very sudden event" at the BFI's In conversation: 60 years of James Bond event.

    "To be honest with you, I don't think he ever felt quite comfortable," she said. "It was so different from anything he'd ever done."


    Perhaps he even questioned it himself.

    After AVTAK, Dalton's physicality was clearly a plus. I remember the release of TLD.

    Everything in context. Sure. Either way we got two awesome action scenes, but if they get the right actor, or a good enough filmmakers, I don't think we have to open with drowning a guy in the toilets every time. Even TLD's PTS has a sense of charm and camp with the paintball "Hey, you're dead!" moments, and the "She'll call you back." I want more of that, hopefully.

    Both Dalton and Brosnan were introduced with Bond on a mission, in mission gear. Let's do that again, with a tux reveal.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 3,889
    So many ways to go about this and some rather creative takes in here already.


    I could suggest a GE style opening, Bond on a mission is the PTS. Then when the film proper starts have it flash that this is 2005 and voila, we can erase Daniel, like EON did to Dalton. We continue in this timeline with a Bond that is closer to the "classic" version of Bond. Course my tongue is firmly planted in cheek, but a guy can dream! LOL!

    I do like a PTS that doesn't feature Bond at all, somewhat like DN or LALD. Have the plot start and then have a song, then the first scene after the PTS is of Bond at a casino or some other elegant place. Have him called to the office "just as things are getting interesting".

    OR

    Do a mix of a PTS like Spy or MR. Villain plan is shown or put into action, cut to M saying to Moneypenny: "where is double-o-7?" and then we cut to Bond with a lady, and it leads to an action stunt that wows the audience.

    Let's not do the reboot thing or take him back to when he isn't double-o-7. Have him be an established agent.
  • Posts: 665
    In a nod to both GF and NTTD, open with an explosion. After the smoke and debris settle, we see a body dressed in a white dinner jacket that is ripped, torn, bloody, and smoking. A passer by rushes to the man now getting to his feet. "Are you alright, Mr.?" The rest is easy.
  • Posts: 1,479
    How about an homage to TB ? The funeral would be a meta reference, of course, even moreso than it was in TB. Perhaps this time hold off on showing Bond's face - a la OHMSS, a film given several significant callbacks in NTTD - until he lands and gets into the car. Not shot for shot, mind you. The new Bond deserves some originality, but I think it could be done, eh ? That's for what the big bucks get paid, don't they, to writers of script, eh ? I'd be quite happy enough with a "story by" credit...of course, mine would be "PTS story poached from a prior film by" credit....and I'd be *%&( proud to get that !
  • Posts: 1,479
    btw - apologies if someone else already suggested a TB call back for the PTS. Quicker on the draw, you'd be...um, in a good way, that is...
  • Posts: 1,479
    Since62 wrote: »
    btw - apologies if someone else already suggested a TB call back for the PTS. Quicker on the draw, you'd be...um, in a good way, that is...

    Add even MORE callback to OHMSS by having the jetpack fail ? And the new actor says, "This never happened to the other fellows, except the second fellow, not counting the TV show, cuz, yeah, it happened to the second fellow."

    OK, No.

    I still see a TB homage, though, not showing Bond's face until the end of the PTS, a la OHMSS. But perhaps no jetpack. Perhaps no Frenchman in drag, either. Perhaps the person Bond is after would be the driver of that limo. No jetpack, though - funny enough - there are modern ones now. Perhaps he does have one but cannot use it as intended because it gets shot and Bond must devise a different way to get to ground level. He could even start up the jetpack and aim it at the pursuers and mess up their pursuit a bit while he parkours down (a CR homage, in a sense).

    The lady greeting him asks, "Where's the jetpack ?"

    Bond: "Oh, it was quite useful ! Just not as intended."

    The lady: "Q will be furious !"

    Bond: "Isn't he always ?"

    The lady: "James, I don't think we will make it to dinner in Paris"

    Bond: "Have faith ! We can land rather close to the hotel. A trucking team will receive it, and provide us with a car, after we land in a field 15 minutes away from our hotel. We should be at the hotel in about 45 minutes."

    The lady: "Land ?"

    Bond flips a switch as they drive, heading toward a canal. The auto drops body panels, swings out wings and a tail and becomes a small jet, lands in the canal on skis, and instantly builds speed. As the pursuers shoot harmlessly, the jet takes off, leaving the skis behind, into the sky.

    Bond turns to the lady. "I'm bringing back to Q the toy he cares more about than the jetpack. He'll be quite shocked !" (This sets up Q saying later, "You returned it ! Shocking. Just shocking.") "As for dinner, we should arrive with time to spare."

    The lady: "You know, we could order dinner from room service..."

    Bond: "What an excellent idea ! Please do !"

    The lady, pulling out her phone, dials..."Hello ! I am calling to confirm our arrival in an hour...yes, we will take dinner in our room...the name for the room ? Of course. Bond, James Bond, Universal Exports." Camera turns to Bond as she says this.

    Bond: "Thank you, Miss Moneypenny."
  • Posts: 1,479
    OK, if too referential please note:
    I added the car-to-boat-to-aerial escape.
    More like Moore. I think it's time for the tone to change, albeit not to clown-time and awful double-entendres.

    Can switch out Moneypenny.
    I wanted to have it as Ms. Trench, but she would not be with Bond on an assignment unless she had joined the Secret Service, and I don't see that. She's a luxurious, wealthy, lady of leisure and great fun. By the way, I definitely figure another lady could stand in for Bond when he is not available to Ms. Trench.

    I know it has too much dialogue. I was looking for an alternate to the B, JB self-intro.

    ALTERNATIVELY, as has definitely been suggested on here: Go with a GF-esque PTS. Humor, action, romance, peril, not related to the adventure to come. Rather, an intro.
    Need not be in someplace warm and wet. Could be someplace cold and wet. A little callback to DAD's ice palace setting. Bond again would not flinch at all when the explosion occurs behind him, though everyone else gets all fired up. He need not be blowing up drugs, but if so, a container or some other indicator somewhere might refer to "Franz Sanchez Industries" or some such callback to TLD. Not to suggest illegal drugs as the driver of the main plot. Also, were FS to return as a character, it could be: In a subsequent film, or someone who inherited his company(ies).
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