How much Fleming did each actor actual get to work with?

BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
edited April 18 in Literary 007 Posts: 1,424
Here's what I have come up with. I know that there is much more Fleming contained in the films, but I am looking specifically for instances where each Bond actor has gotten to work directly from the creator.

A. Films that follow Fleming closely enough to give the actor plenty to work with in terms of actual Fleming dialogue (if not always verbatim, then in spirit and content) and direct scenarios. It's not even worth going into specifics with these examples.

Connery-
DOCTOR NO
FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE
GOLDFINGER
THUNDERBALL


Lazenby-
ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE

Moore-
FOR YOUR EYES ONLY


B. Films that are fully or partially adapted from the works of Fleming that give the actor at least a significant scene or two that conform fairly faithfully to the original works in both dialogue and tone.

Dalton-
THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (post-Title Sequence)
LICENCE TO KILL (finding Felix, the marine research facility)

Craig-
CASINO ROYALE (aspects of the card game, torture scene, "the bitch is dead...")



C. Films in which the actor is only given a few lines of dialogue and/or a small scenario (or, often, partial scenario) from Fleming's original.

Connery-
YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE (some of the exchanges with Tiger, wedding)
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER (some of the discussion on diamonds, first meeting with Tiffany Case)

Moore-
THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN (dialogue with Goodnight over dinner, recounting Scaramanga's origin)
LIVE AND LET DIE (Filet of Soul, some version of the Mr. Big, Tee Hee, Solitaire, Bond's finger scenario carries over)
OCTOPUSSY ( a loose version of the auction from THE PROPERTY OF A LADY)

A final category would be a simple line of dialogue, Brosnan in TWINE or Craig in NTTD, but that doesn't qualify for what I'm going for here.
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Comments

  • edited April 18 Posts: 2,870
    Good post. It's fair to say poor old Brozza never got to work with one single moment from the books. Craig doesn't fare much better either, despite all the claims that his films went back to Fleming (yeah, whatever!)

    After the 60's, I think LTK is the film which feels the most like Fleming for me, in terms of tone and the way the story unfolds.

    It's the one time the script writers really managed to pull off `Fleming reimagined' as the whole thing feels like it is a straight adaptation from the novels, despite any misgivings fans may have over the direction of the film itself (too 80's, too much Die Hard, too much Miami Vice, too much like a TV movie, etc.)

    They should bottle whatever tricks Wilson and Maibaum pulled in writing the script for LTK, because this is the blueprint for the series going forward for me. Proper essence of Fleming, full adapted unused scenes, edgy, violent, down-to-earth, and a bit more grounded in realism.

    I'd much rather the series go in this direction, than giving Bond pathetic family backstories, Brofeld, women to fall hopelessly in love with and then dwell on forever more, lonely retirement, daughters, etc.

  • MI6HQMI6HQ Having a trip down to Memory Lane.....
    Posts: 933
    When it comes to Brosnan, I think TWINE was the most flemingesque in terms of tone and Brosnan's portrayal of Bond in that movie.
  • Posts: 2,870
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    When it comes to Brosnan, I think TWINE was the most flemingesque in terms of tone and Brosnan's portrayal of Bond in that movie.

    Not sure on that. There are too many awkward moments in that movie for me when Brosnan hams it up a notch too far, the main scene being `he knew about my shoulder, where to hurt me', etc. Where Dalton went inward with his performance (more in line with Fleming), Brosnan goes overtly the other way.

    I think there are moments in GE where he probably gives his most Flemingesque performance, with a standout scene in TND when he sits with a bottle of vodka in his hotel room, waiting for carver's wife.
  • edited April 18 Posts: 12,700
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    When it comes to Brosnan, I think TWINE was the most flemingesque in terms of tone and Brosnan's portrayal of Bond in that movie.

    Yeah I agree. That one has always felt quite Fleming to me. You’ve got Bond helping M with a personal favour on behalf of a posh high society friend of hers, playing detective like a “sort of policeman”, a damaged Bond girl who he wants to protect and actually develops real feelings for, a Bond human enough to be physically injured, a torture scene, and a great colourful cast of characters. The deformed villain is always a given but Robert King could’ve fit right in at Blades, and even the minor characters have memoral gimmicks. All feels very Fleming to me.

    And my takeaway from that is that capturing the essence of Fleming doesn’t have to mean cramming in all the unused material or using one of the unused titles (don’t think there’s really any good ones left to be honest) for the sake of it. There’s a couple of scenes I’d like to see. OP would make a great PTS for example, and I wish they’d staged the Garden of Death in a more creepy/surreal way, I feel like there’s still mileage in that concept. But I think the reason for his success was the way his books pulled you into that sexy, dangerous and colourful world and kept you turning the page. As long as the films keep doing the cinematic equivalent then I’m happy, and there’s really only a couple that have completely failed at that for me.
  • edited April 18 Posts: 649
    I agree that Brosnan's performance in TWINE is very soap opera-ish. The film's a mess for me too. If anything his most Fleming-esque moments are probably either when he meets with Paris in the hotel room in TND (always liked the dialogue during that one, very film noir), or where he first arrives in Cuba in DAD (particularly his dialogue with Raul).

    Anyway, I think it goes without saying they're not going to fully adapt any of the Fleming novels, even the ones that haven't been used. In itself this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if they are going to take elements of the novels (ie. the garden in NTTD) or claim to take influence from the source material I'd like to see them evoke the spirit of the Fleming novels in their stories.

    As others have said, this means not trying as hard to make things 'personal' - nothing like the foster brothers subplot in SP, the daughter revelation in NTTD etc. Get rid of the constant references to the 60s Bond films, no more scarred villains (Fleming's villains were usually just odd looking and always sadistic). Less locations, although keep them interesting. Strip things back, including the plot. Have Bond doing more 'detective' work to uncover the villain's scheme - evoke the proper hardboiled feel that the novels did and that we saw in films like DN, LTK, GF etc. There's plenty to emphasise in terms of Bond's character from the novels that hasn't quite been explored in the films, or at least as of late (Bond's snobbishness/food and drink habits, his hesitance to kill in cold blood that is usually outright ignored in the films etc.) The film doesn't even need to be realistic or 'gritty' but can have elements of the fantastical in it - exotic locations, an otherworldly villain etc. - but it has to feel grounded and plausible, however outlandish. So no nanobots, world domination schemes. No more of Bond running around after being shot, fighting five henchmen at a time without a gun, jumping off bridges etc. like he did in the Craig era (for all the era's emphasis on 'realism' Craig's Bond became near superhuman by his last two films which never felt right to me). Bond can make mistakes, get hurt etc.
  • edited April 18 Posts: 2,870
    007HallY wrote: »
    Strip things back, including the plot. Have Bond doing more 'detective' work to uncover the villain's scheme - evoke the proper hardboiled feel that the novels did and that we saw in films like DN, LTK, GF etc. There's plenty to emphasise in terms of Bond's character from the novels that hasn't quite been explored in the films, or at least as of late (Bond's snobbishness/food and drink habits, his hesitance to kill in cold blood that is usually outright ignored in the films etc.) The film doesn't even need to be realistic or 'gritty' but can have elements of the fantastical in it - exotic locations, an otherworldly villain etc. - but it has to feel grounded and plausible, however outlandish. So no nanobots, world domination schemes etc.

    It's why I think the next Bond film will return to this world you described, if The Batman is anything to go by. Often those kind of trend movies are an indication to where EON will take Bond next, particularly as Batman is scoring high at the BO.

    Fingers crossed, and here's hoping the next Bond will show Viv Michel being rescued at a motel from Horror and Sluggsy, Bond being booted half to death in a Brooklyn Stomp, Bond enjoying a plate of scrambled eggs, Bond going undercover as Mark Hazard and meeting Pistols S at a brothel called 3.5 Love Lane, Bond smoking, womanising, enjoying hot and cold showers, doing press ups in his hotel room, enjoying pulling on a sea island cotton shirt, taking Benzedrine before going on a circus train ride with Pistols S and his gangster guests, knowing his death will be the entertainment for the day, grisly mud bath deaths, a game of cards at Blades where he outcheats a high ranking figure connected to the Spangled Mob, etc. etc.

    All of that listed above sounds far more exciting to me than any of the past Bond films since CR.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 18 Posts: 10,706
    Good post. It's fair to say poor old Brozza never got to work with one single moment from the books. Craig doesn't fare much better either, despite all the claims that his films went back to Fleming (yeah, whatever!)

    After the 60's, I think LTK is the film which feels the most like Fleming for me, in terms of tone and the way the story unfolds.

    It's the one time the script writers really managed to pull off `Fleming reimagined' as the whole thing feels like it is a straight adaptation from the novels, despite any misgivings fans may have over the direction of the film itself (too 80's, too much Die Hard, too much Miami Vice, too much like a TV movie, etc.)

    They should bottle whatever tricks Wilson and Maibaum pulled in writing the script for LTK, because this is the blueprint for the series going forward for me. Proper essence of Fleming, full adapted unused scenes, edgy, violent, down-to-earth, and a bit more grounded in realism.

    I'd much rather the series go in this direction, than giving Bond pathetic family backstories, Brofeld, women to fall hopelessly in love with and then dwell on forever more, lonely retirement, daughters, etc.

    I don’t think LTK really gets that pervy, twisted feel of Fleming much: Sanchez is a pretty straightforward common bad guy. The closest we get is probably him using the stingray tail whip from Hildebrand, but we barely see it.
    Stuff like the mongoose fight in CR or the scorpion drinking game in SF, or the whole crater base in SP, feels much more like the novels to me.
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    When it comes to Brosnan, I think TWINE was the most flemingesque in terms of tone and Brosnan's portrayal of Bond in that movie.

    Yeah I agree. That one has always felt quite Fleming to me. You’ve got Bond helping M with a personal favour on behalf of a posh high society friend of hers, playing detective like a “sort of policeman”, a damaged Bond girl who he wants to protect and actually develops real feelings for, a Bond human enough to be physically injured, a torture scene, and a great colourful cast of characters. The deformed villain is always a given but Robert King could’ve fit right in at Blades, and even the minor characters have memoral gimmicks. All feels very Fleming to me.

    Plus Electra is the only(?) Bond leading lady to have a physical ‘deformity’ as per pretty much all of Fleming’s.
    And my takeaway from that is that capturing the essence of Fleming doesn’t have to mean cramming in all the unused material or using one of the unused titles (don’t think there’s really any good ones left to be honest) for the sake of it.

    Agreed, there’s not much left in the precise letter of the books now: it’s about getting the flavour.
  • MI6HQMI6HQ Having a trip down to Memory Lane.....
    edited April 18 Posts: 933
    007HallY wrote: »
    Strip things back, including the plot. Have Bond doing more 'detective' work to uncover the villain's scheme - evoke the proper hardboiled feel that the novels did and that we saw in films like DN, LTK, GF etc. There's plenty to emphasise in terms of Bond's character from the novels that hasn't quite been explored in the films, or at least as of late (Bond's snobbishness/food and drink habits, his hesitance to kill in cold blood that is usually outright ignored in the films etc.) The film doesn't even need to be realistic or 'gritty' but can have elements of the fantastical in it - exotic locations, an otherworldly villain etc. - but it has to feel grounded and plausible, however outlandish. So no nanobots, world domination schemes etc.

    It's why I think the next Bond film will return to this world you described, if The Batman is anything to go by. Often those kind of trend movies are an indication to where EON will take Bond next, particularly as Batman is scoring high at the BO.

    Fingers crossed, and here's hoping the next Bond will show Viv Michel being rescued at a motel from Horror and Sluggsy, Bond being booted half to death in a Brooklyn Stomp, Bond enjoying a plate of scrambled eggs, Bond going undercover as Mark Hazard, Bond smoking, womanising, enjoying hot and cold showers, doing press ups in his hotel room, enjoying pulling on a sea island cotton shirt, taking Benzedrine before going on a circus train ride with Pistols S and his gangster guests, knowing his death will be the entertainment for the day, grisly mud bath deaths, a game of cards at Blades where he outcheats a high ranking figure connected to the Spangled Mob, etc. etc.

    All of that listed above sounds far more exciting to me than any of the past Bond films since CR.

    Also Bond wearing raincoats or any different kinds of coats.
    Bond lying under a tree to wait for an assassin who killed a motorcycle courier, Bond giving a tip to a waiter when he's satisfied with the food, Bond giving a trivia to a girl about how flowers got hurt when they're picked. Bond who sometimes acts like MacGyver at some scenes.
    They're little things in the novels, but interesting.
    Especially the last section about Bond being MacGyver, I'm happy when I saw Bond doing that in Skyfall when he used his wits to light the gasoline tanks and made them explode. I want to see more of that, him doing some improvisations, being resourceful.
  • Posts: 649
    007HallY wrote: »
    Strip things back, including the plot. Have Bond doing more 'detective' work to uncover the villain's scheme - evoke the proper hardboiled feel that the novels did and that we saw in films like DN, LTK, GF etc. There's plenty to emphasise in terms of Bond's character from the novels that hasn't quite been explored in the films, or at least as of late (Bond's snobbishness/food and drink habits, his hesitance to kill in cold blood that is usually outright ignored in the films etc.) The film doesn't even need to be realistic or 'gritty' but can have elements of the fantastical in it - exotic locations, an otherworldly villain etc. - but it has to feel grounded and plausible, however outlandish. So no nanobots, world domination schemes etc.

    It's why I think the next Bond film will return to this world you described, if The Batman is anything to go by. Often those kind of trend movies are an indication to where EON will take Bond next, particularly as Batman is scoring high at the BO.

    Fingers crossed, and here's hoping the next Bond will show Viv Michel being rescued at a motel from Horror and Sluggsy, Bond being booted half to death in a Brooklyn Stomp, Bond enjoying a plate of scrambled eggs, Bond going undercover as Mark Hazard and meeting Pistols S at a brothel called 3.5 Love Lane, Bond smoking, womanising, enjoying hot and cold showers, doing press ups in his hotel room, enjoying pulling on a sea island cotton shirt, taking Benzedrine before going on a circus train ride with Pistols S and his gangster guests, knowing his death will be the entertainment for the day, grisly mud bath deaths, a game of cards at Blades where he outcheats a high ranking figure connected to the Spangled Mob, etc. etc.

    All of that listed above sounds far more exciting to me than any of the past Bond films since CR.

    Yes, I've said a few times that The Batman will hopefully have an impact on Bond 26. That's a good example of a film which understands its source material but crafts something new.

    Again, it's a case of the writers understanding these aspects of Bond, not simply lifting little details from the novels here and there and stuffing them into a film. Fleming was a fan of Chandler, the old dime detective novels and a lot of this went into his work. He was also, however, a travel writer, enjoyed his food, fast cars, drink, women. His character was a man who lived for that excitement, going on these assignments to different countries, being put in perilous situations etc. Often this excitement only existed for him in the context of these missions. Bond is a loner, a man whose only virtues are 'courage and patriotism' (as Fleming once said). I actually got this sense of Bond's character in SF (his vices with the gambling, fine dining, good drink etc. are less on display in that one, but it's a start), and to a lesser extent CR, so it's possible EON can do this.

    Crafting the story is a different matter. I like alot of those things from the novels you listed. A future Bond film doesn't need to be 'big' in terms of scale like I got the sense they were trying to do with NTTD. It can be low key, fewer locations, a simple villain plot, but it can still be tense and fantastical. As much as I don't think it's Fleming's best novel much of the tension from DAF comes from Bond going undercover, getting introduced to these various shady characters - essentially being that detective figure we were talking about. There's always this sense that he's one step away from being caught. This is also a big part of the tension in Fleming's GF, OHMSS, TMWTGG, and indeed the LTK film. If the producers want to make the next Bond film more Fleming-esque that's an easy blueprint to go off of. We've not seen that sort of thing in the Craig era for sure.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 10,706
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Strip things back, including the plot. Have Bond doing more 'detective' work to uncover the villain's scheme - evoke the proper hardboiled feel that the novels did and that we saw in films like DN, LTK, GF etc. There's plenty to emphasise in terms of Bond's character from the novels that hasn't quite been explored in the films, or at least as of late (Bond's snobbishness/food and drink habits, his hesitance to kill in cold blood that is usually outright ignored in the films etc.) The film doesn't even need to be realistic or 'gritty' but can have elements of the fantastical in it - exotic locations, an otherworldly villain etc. - but it has to feel grounded and plausible, however outlandish. So no nanobots, world domination schemes etc.

    It's why I think the next Bond film will return to this world you described, if The Batman is anything to go by. Often those kind of trend movies are an indication to where EON will take Bond next, particularly as Batman is scoring high at the BO.

    Fingers crossed, and here's hoping the next Bond will show Viv Michel being rescued at a motel from Horror and Sluggsy, Bond being booted half to death in a Brooklyn Stomp, Bond enjoying a plate of scrambled eggs, Bond going undercover as Mark Hazard, Bond smoking, womanising, enjoying hot and cold showers, doing press ups in his hotel room, enjoying pulling on a sea island cotton shirt, taking Benzedrine before going on a circus train ride with Pistols S and his gangster guests, knowing his death will be the entertainment for the day, grisly mud bath deaths, a game of cards at Blades where he outcheats a high ranking figure connected to the Spangled Mob, etc. etc.

    All of that listed above sounds far more exciting to me than any of the past Bond films since CR.

    Also Bond wearing raincoats or any different kinds of coats.

    I guess it just goes to show we all take away different things from the books! :)
  • In addition to getting closer to the spirit of Fleming, having the next Bond be a little more detective/espionage oriented would be a good way to set him apart from Craig as well, who really played up the assassin/guard-dog aspect.

    And, as mentioned, I think there’s still a good amount of actual Fleming bits and pieces to be used yet. I love the idea floated already of condensing TSWLM into a PTS to introduce the new Bond, and stuff like the underwater infiltration from LALD or Dr. No’s obstacle course would make for terrific set-pieces.
  • edited April 19 Posts: 2,870
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Strip things back, including the plot. Have Bond doing more 'detective' work to uncover the villain's scheme - evoke the proper hardboiled feel that the novels did and that we saw in films like DN, LTK, GF etc. There's plenty to emphasise in terms of Bond's character from the novels that hasn't quite been explored in the films, or at least as of late (Bond's snobbishness/food and drink habits, his hesitance to kill in cold blood that is usually outright ignored in the films etc.) The film doesn't even need to be realistic or 'gritty' but can have elements of the fantastical in it - exotic locations, an otherworldly villain etc. - but it has to feel grounded and plausible, however outlandish. So no nanobots, world domination schemes etc.

    It's why I think the next Bond film will return to this world you described, if The Batman is anything to go by. Often those kind of trend movies are an indication to where EON will take Bond next, particularly as Batman is scoring high at the BO.

    Fingers crossed, and here's hoping the next Bond will show Viv Michel being rescued at a motel from Horror and Sluggsy, Bond being booted half to death in a Brooklyn Stomp, Bond enjoying a plate of scrambled eggs, Bond going undercover as Mark Hazard, Bond smoking, womanising, enjoying hot and cold showers, doing press ups in his hotel room, enjoying pulling on a sea island cotton shirt, taking Benzedrine before going on a circus train ride with Pistols S and his gangster guests, knowing his death will be the entertainment for the day, grisly mud bath deaths, a game of cards at Blades where he outcheats a high ranking figure connected to the Spangled Mob, etc. etc.

    All of that listed above sounds far more exciting to me than any of the past Bond films since CR.

    Also Bond wearing raincoats or any different kinds of coats.
    Bond lying under a tree to wait for an assassin who killed a motorcycle courier, Bond giving a tip to a waiter when he's satisfied with the food, Bond giving a trivia to a girl about how flowers got hurt when they're picked. Bond who sometimes acts like MacGyver at some scenes.
    They're little things in the novels, but interesting.
    Especially the last section about Bond being MacGyver, I'm happy when I saw Bond doing that in Skyfall when he used his wits to light the gasoline tanks and made them explode. I want to see more of that, him doing some improvisations, being resourceful.

    Yes, agree with all of the above. As much of this as possible in the next Bond film please.

    As for raincoats, what a great way to introduce the new Bond. Viv Michel held at knife point in a motel, about to be subjected to rape and then killed, when the doorbell rings and Horror and Sluggsy order her to open the door and tell the person outside that the vacancy sign was left on by mistake.

    Outside in the rain, the dark shadowy figure in the raincoat senses something is wrong and enters the motel. Hello Bond number 7.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 4,033
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 15,636
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.

    I agree but it could always be suggested so that the audience gets the gist of what is happening or about to happen without being graphic about it. That's how the rape of Della Leiter was suggested in LTK: "We gave her a nice honeymoooonnnn."
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 10,706
    I do think that bit is too nasty for a Bond film though and that they shouldn't have gone there.
  • MI6HQMI6HQ Having a trip down to Memory Lane.....
    edited April 19 Posts: 933
    You can have the Spangs attempt to kill Vivienne, because her father has a debt to them and her father failed to pay them, now as a pay to his debt, they will kill his daughter and that's Vivienne, then coincidentally have Bond take a stopover at the motel, he's wearing a raincoat because it's raining, but he noticed that something's wrong, then he's going to save Viv.
  • edited April 19 Posts: 649
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.

    Really? I think nowadays would be exactly the sort of time you'd see such things in a Bond film. Certainly more so than what we've seen in the movies previously.

    To clarify I don't think we'd ever get a fully depicted rape scene (even in LTK it's implied) and most likely Bond will step in before it occurs like in TSWLM. More likely nowadays the Bond girl will use her wits to escape. Heck, the theme of rape is there in Fleming - Honey Rider, Tiffany Case and I think Pussy Galore all have backstories in which they were raped. Seems like something that could be incorporated in a future Bond film and handled well enough.
  • Posts: 2,870
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.

    What about the scene near the end of QoS with Camile and Medrano?
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 15,636
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.

    What about the scene near the end of QoS with Camile and Medrano?

    That's another good example and there is past history there with Medrano of course. It just further confirms that QoS is Craig's LTK and is all the better for it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,905
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.

    There's a reason Fleming didn't want this particular novel adapted. It's terrible.
  • edited April 19 Posts: 2,870
    echo wrote: »
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.

    There's a reason Fleming didn't want this particular novel adapted. It's terrible.

    I didn't care much for part one of the novel, but I found part two THEM and part three HIM actually rather gripping.

    As for describing it as `terrible' I think that is a little harsh.
  • MI6HQMI6HQ Having a trip down to Memory Lane.....
    edited April 19 Posts: 933
    echo wrote: »
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.

    There's a reason Fleming didn't want this particular novel adapted. It's terrible.

    But they can use Vivienne Michel as a character, just not her backstory, and the story in general.
  • Posts: 2,870
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.

    What about the scene near the end of QoS with Camile and Medrano?

    That's another good example and there is past history there with Medrano of course. It just further confirms that QoS is Craig's LTK and is all the better for it.

    Absolutely. I love the soundtrack in this film (not the terrible song), and the PTS car chase, and the Tosca scene is great too, but I don't find the film very gripping. There are no scenes where you feel Bond is in danger from the villains, like there is in LTK.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 1,287
    Brosnan did have one small encounter with actual Fleming - the race between Bond and Onatopp in GE is basically the race between Bond and Tracy in OHMSS. It's not much, but worth having in the absence of owt else...
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 4,033
    In today's society, I don't think rape, attempting or even speaking or seeing such a scene would make its way into a Bond film.

    What about the scene near the end of QoS with Camile and Medrano?

    That was 2008. Times have changed. Would I mind seeing it? It wouldn't bother me in the context of a story but remember people were bothered in regard to the shower scene with Severine in Skyfall about how she was a sex worker and Bond basically takes advantage of that.
  • Posts: 2,870
    Venutius wrote: »
    Brosnan did have one small encounter with actual Fleming - the race between Bond and Onatopp in GE is basically the race between Bond and Tracy in OHMSS. It's not much, but worth having in the absence of owt else...

    That is clutching at straws, and Bond was alone driving in OHMSS, and not accompanied with another woman.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited April 19 Posts: 1,287
    Oh, I dunno, it's clearly the same incident so that means it's based directly on a scenario from Fleming, no? Thinking about it, Bond next encounters Onatopp at the casino, just as he next saw Tracy at the casino in the book. Even with the presence of Caroline as a passenger in GE, isn't that enough to fit Birdleson's category C ('partial scenario from Fleming's original')?
  • Posts: 2,870
    Venutius wrote: »
    Oh, I dunno, it's clearly the same incident so that means it's based directly on a scenario from Fleming, no? Thinking about it, Bond next encounters Onatopp at the casino, just as he next saw Tracy at the casino in the book. Even with the presence of Caroline as a passenger in GE, isn't that enough to fit Birdleson's category C ('partial scenario from Fleming's original')?

    Actually yes, you have something there.

    The casino scene afterwards follows on from Fleming. I never thought of that before.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 10,706
    Venutius wrote: »
    Oh, I dunno, it's clearly the same incident so that means it's based directly on a scenario from Fleming, no? Thinking about it, Bond next encounters Onatopp at the casino, just as he next saw Tracy at the casino in the book. Even with the presence of Caroline as a passenger in GE, isn't that enough to fit Birdleson's category C ('partial scenario from Fleming's original')?

    Yes there's definitely something of Bond on holiday from OHMSS about those scenes, you're right.
  • MI6HQMI6HQ Having a trip down to Memory Lane.....
    Posts: 933
    Die Another Day, some touches of Moonraker novel.
    The Blades, Gustav Graves also have some similarities to Hugo Drax, the Icarus thing.
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