The What if thread...What if Dalton had starred in GE instead of Brosnan?

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  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 1,028
    Denbigh wrote: »
    With the return of SPECTRE in the modern-era, I always thought it would have made sense for them to look at the Union trilogy, High Time to Kill, Doubleshot and Never Dream of Dying, alongside the initial novels that introduced us to SPECTRE. While not the most easily adaptable properties, there's lot to work with..

    ...and aspects of those novels, mainly certain sequences and characters, would make great groundwork for new additions to the franchise. For example, it may have been interesting to see a blind villain in the franchise akin to the leader of the Union, or have snowy-mountain climbing sequence akin to High Time to Kill :)

    I've always wanted to see the Union trilogy get adapted being filmed back to back to back. This way everyone has a solid 3 movies.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 5,618
    I didn't take to the Benson novels but his title choices were very good.

    He also came up with good capers but I think many times they were tied to real world events like the Hong Kong changeover. Just detail to overcome or realign, mining what's useful.

    Anyway, updating the Gardner novels and others in the style Casino Royale did so well could be a big winner.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    I recall enjoying High Time to Kill. I thought at the time of reading it that it might make for an interesting movie. Course us older folk might say "Cliffhanger" meets Bond. Or the Chris O'Donnell movie (whose title escapes me). Still it would be unique for a Bond film and give us a glimpse of the world we rarely see.

    I can't recall "Never Dream of Dying" or "Doubleshot". Might be a good time to go back and read those ones again.

    I can see EON doing quite well by these continuation novels. I think it would set the series up for some new ideas and thoughts. Besides I think most of these missions the "this time it's personal" angle isn't always present.
  • Posts: 3,676
    Vertical Limit - starring the lovely Ms Scorupco
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    Thanks @vzok I appreciate your help! LOL!

    I rather like a few of the titles that have been used in the continuation novels. Even though I found the book a tough read I liked Devil May Care has a book title.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 1,028
    I think that if the series gets rebooted after DC leaves, Forever and a Day would be great to adapt as a starting point. CR proved you can modernize a past story and make it just as good as the text. To a lesser degree, same with Carte Blanche.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    Posts: 1,198
    If the series gets rebooted after DC leaves, I'd just like to see the new Bond already in the middle of his career as a 00 agent. No more origin story or delving into his past. Just back to basics.
  • Posts: 9,693
    If the series gets rebooted after DC leaves, I'd just like to see the new Bond already in the middle of his career as a 00 agent. No more origin story or delving into his past. Just back to basics.

    I second that!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    To me using the content or plot ideas or even characters from the continuation novels I think it lends itself to no origin story. I would think they would avoid that again as it would make a strong comparison for the new guy (or gal) to Craig's Bond.

    I would ideally like to see something like Licence Renewed set up and that is the double-0 section is disbanded but M transfers Bond to a different arm of the intelligence arena and we get a Bond operating somewhat outside of his parameters.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 1,028
    thedove wrote: »
    To me using the content or plot ideas or even characters from the continuation novels I think it lends itself to no origin story. I would think they would avoid that again as it would make a strong comparison for the new guy (or gal) to Craig's Bond.

    I would ideally like to see something like Licence Renewed set up and that is the double-0 section is disbanded but M transfers Bond to a different arm of the intelligence arena and we get a Bond operating somewhat outside of his parameters.

    Pervis and Wade's speciality!
  • edited November 12 Posts: 9,693
    I'd love to see the continuation novels adapted. That could lead to 2 year gaps, and the announcement of the next title during the end credits.

    THE END

    NOT QUITE THE END

    IAN FLEMING'S JAMES BOND WILL RETURN

    IN

    JOHN GARDNER'S

    LICENCE RENEWED
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    Posts: 1,198
    Even if EON isn't totally faithful to those books, it would be great to have Bond films end with an announcement of the next Bond title. They wouldn't need to go in book order either, so us Bond fans can sit in our seats to the very end and get the news of which book they'll adapt next.
  • Posts: 11,674
    Even if EON isn't totally faithful to those books, it would be great to have Bond films end with an announcement of the next Bond title. They wouldn't need to go in book order either, so us Bond fans can sit in our seats to the very end and get the news of which book they'll adapt next.

    I quite like the sound of that! :-bd
  • edited November 12 Posts: 9,693
    THE END

    OF

    NO TIME TO DIE

    BUT JAMES BOND WILL BE BACK

    IN

    ANTHONY HOROWITZ'S

    FOREVER AND A DAY
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited November 13 Posts: 1,961
    Great stuff as always guys and gals. Lets keep on this vein and ask another what if that involves the direction of the series. It is rumoured that Daniel Craig will hang up the PPK after this adventure. We have a series in need for a new actor. EON also looks at how Disney is making a ton of Box Office by remaking their animated classics into live action films. Wilson and Broccoli decide that waiting 4-5 years between movies just isn't going to cut it. They decide the time has come to remake the original series. The new Bond will star in movies that are remakes of Fleming based movies. So all the adventures from 1962 to 1987 are up for a remaking. Would the movie going public like this approach? Would hard core fans be excited about remaking the classics?

    What say you Mi6? What if EON decided to remake the classic adventures, updating them for today's audiences and with today's technology? Would you want them to all be remade? Are there certain ones you wouldn't want to be remade? What order would you like to see them remade?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,648
    Rather than remaking the old films, I would prefer if they re-adapted all the books, in order of publication. The short stories could be worked into a tv series at some point.
  • I'd prefer a Netflix style spin off TV series of faithful and period adaptations of Fleming's novels, with Toby Stephens playing Bond.
  • Posts: 3,676
    Disney has the catch that they are turning cartoons to live (CGI) action. Bond wouldn’t have that, so it’d seem lazy to redo them, especially as EON have sometimes reworked aspects of earlier movies already.
    The novels would be the way to go.
  • Posts: 700
    Considering a lot of the films have been remade in some fashion or another, it would be re-reinventing the wheel. TSWLM is a remake of YOLT, which some saw as a remake of DN; MR was TSWLM in space; many see AVTAK as a copy of GF; GF is seen as a blueprint for the films that followed it, and on and on.

    And let's not forget about the biggest remake of all - NSNA. Since so many of the films were classics to begin with, no need to remake them. Move on with the new and original and work in some classic stuff if anything is left from Fleming if possible. That would be tribute enough.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    Okay lets turn attention back to CR. It's funny how many "what if's" seem to come to this book.

    As we all know producer Charles Feldman had the movie rights to the book. I am unclear of all the timelines but it would appear that at some point Feldman was looking to make a serious version of CR. I believe director Howard Hawks was interested in directing. Feldman even approached Connery to see if he could entice him to play Bond in CR. Soon however Feldman abandoned the idea of a serious adaption and we got the campy CR 67!

    Lets suppose Feldman had been successful in creating a serious CR movie. What effect would this have had on EON's series? Would it have created a rival for the Bond series? Do you think EON would have attempted to do what they did with McClory and make it under their series and then give Feldman remake rights?

    What say you Mi6? What if Charles Feldman had been successful in making a serious CR in the sixties?
  • Posts: 2,946
    Had Charles Feldman agreed to Connery’s $1 million fee and produced a serious Bond movie then I suspect there would’ve been a series of different knock-on effects, chiefly YOLT not having to do battle with CR and producing a much healthier BO return in 67. Clearly, Feldman would’ve had to wait until Connery was free of Harry & Cubby to sign on for CR, pushing the release date on by a further couple of years. Maybe had Connery made CR in 68 it would’ve gone head-to-head with OHMSS? However, I don’t think for a minute that Feldman was interested in making a series of Bond movies, only CR. Going off the early script treatment, I think Feldman originally intended his Bond picture to be edgy and more risqué which could’ve resulted in an far more adult Bond movie ahead of its time. When people talk about the lost Connery OHMSS I’m not that interested as I think the real loss to cinema was Connery’s CR that really did have a chance of making it to the big screen. I think it would’ve been interesting to see how a more youthful Connery would’ve delivered on his role without the distractions of Harry & Cubby. What if, indeed.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    edited November 20 Posts: 1,198
    Was there ever a point that Feldman and EON entertained the ought of teaming up like with McClory on TB? The legalities would have to be sorted out, but I would have liked that scenario.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    Was there ever a point that Feldman and EON entertained the ought of teaming up like with McClory on TB? The legalities would have to be sorted out, but I would have liked that scenario.

    I'm not sure that there was, however you do wonder if Feldman got close to making his film would EON approach and try to bring him into the series. Competition is never a bad thing but with McClory it seemed that EON was happy to limit the competition when it comes to Bond.

    Great points @bondsum I would have liked to have seen that film. A committed Connery out of the shadows of EON in his prime might have made for a great film. One can only hope they would still get Burt Bachrach to score the film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    edited November 20 Posts: 1,198
    Looked at Wikipedia for CR67 and found this bit:
    “ By 1964, with Feldman having invested nearly $550,000 of his own money into pre-production of Casino Royale, he decided to try a deal with Eon Productions and its distributor United Artists. The attempt at a co-production eventually fell through as Feldman frequently argued with Broccoli and Saltzman, especially regarding the profit divisions and when the Casino Royale adaptation would start production. Feldman approached Sean Connery to play Bond, but rejected Connery's offer to do the film for one million dollars.[11] Feldman eventually decided to offer his project to Columbia Pictures through a script written by Ben Hecht, and the studio accepted.”

    The cited source link no longer works. If this is accurate, it’s a shame they couldn’t work it out. But I suppose after GF success EON would have taken a ton of liberties with the adaptation. Can’t imagine them sticking to Vesper’s story. I would have only been interested in a straight up adaptation. Being the genesis of all Bond, I demand no less.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,648
    He regretted not giving Connery his million. It would have been far cheaper than the mess that ensued.
  • edited November 20 Posts: 1,527
    But I suppose after GF success EON would have taken a ton of liberties with the adaptation. Can’t imagine them sticking to Vesper’s story. I would have only been interested in a straight up adaptation. Being the genesis of all Bond, I demand no less.

    Yes, that's the rub. Ben Hecht's last draft for Casino Royale was written between the release of FRWL and GF, which would have been the best time for a serious version of CR to have been released. Afterward, the chances of a faithful adaptation, especially following Hecht's death, grew exponentially worse each year. The idea of a faithful '68 CR with Connery is no more plausible than a faithful '69 OHMSS with him. Any producer who could perpetrate the abortive mess that was the '67 CR was obviously not invested in the original's story, whereas Hecht was.
  • Posts: 9,693
    Was there ever a point that Feldman and EON entertained the ought of teaming up like with McClory on TB? The legalities would have to be sorted out, but I would have liked that scenario.

    According to one of the CR documentaries, Feldman wanted such a huge percentage, Cubby and Harry would have only received a something like a penny to the dollar to co produce. I wonder what might have occurred had Cubby and Harry agreed and produced the film after GF?
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited November 20 Posts: 679
    Here's a terrifying thought: we might not have ever seen Daniel Craig's Casino Royale if Connery had already covered that material.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    Posts: 1,198
    Minion wrote: »
    Here's a terrifying thought: we might not have ever seen Daniel Craig's Casino Royale if Connery had already covered that material.

    As much as I dig CR with Craig, I would have been perfectly happy with a CR set in the early 60s with Connery in his prime. I would hope it would remain faithful to the story, but who knows what EON would have done specifically. From what I read Broccoli offered to buy the rights to CR off Feldman but was declined. That’s too bad. I wonder if he had bought them that CR really would have been positioned as the first film instead of DN.
  • edited November 20 Posts: 1,527
    I'd also have no complaints about a CR set in the early 60s with Connery in his prime, especially if it was true to the book.
    That said, the Bond actor I'd consider best-suited to play Bond in a faithful version of Casino Royale would have been Timothy Dalton, who was a close reader of the book and based his conception of Bond on it. Fleming's Bond changed over the course of time, but the noirish, ruthless, and mostly grim Bond of CR would have suited Dalton very well.



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