SPECTRE - Your reviews. NO SPOILERS.

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  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited November 2015 Posts: 4,116
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Let's remember CR had its fair share of criticisms too including pacing.

    I don't doubt the criticisms are fair but I also truly don't think that the degree or impact of the criticisms are enough to take away the enjoyment of the film.

    Agreed. We all want this to be a great film since we've had to wait 3 long years, after a previous even longer 4 year wait (and this is the really unforgivable part imho and why expectations are very high, as hoped).

    So any criticisms are likely to feel magnified. I'm sure one year from now we'll all have settled down and be discussing this film more rationally.

    Agreed ...and not to mention we also had to endure the drama of not knowing what Logan was doing, then the leaks, and then the strange decision to turn to P&W in addition to the long wait.

    It was a long three years in terms of fan commitment to Bond and this film.

  • Posts: 3,326
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Let's remember CR had its fair share of criticisms too including pacing.

    I don't doubt the criticisms are fair but I also truly don't think that the degree or impact of the criticisms are enough to take away the enjoyment of the film.

    Agreed. We all want this to be a great film since we've had to wait 3 long years, after a previous even longer 4 year wait (and this is the really unforgivable part imho and why expectations are very high, as hoped).

    So any criticisms are likely to feel magnified. I'm sure one year from now we'll all have settled down and be discussing this film more rationally.

    Agreed ...and not to mention we also had to endure the drama of not knowing what Logan was doing, then the leaks, and then the strange decision to turn to P&W in addition to a long wait.

    It was a long three years in terms of fan commitment to Bond and this film.

    agreed
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 484
    bondjames wrote: »
    Good summary and I'm looking forward to seeing it. As I said above, perhaps the lack of an emotional connection (something which SF did so well no matter what one thought of it and which no doubt contributed to its massive success despite all its plot holes) is what is causing SP to come under perhaps undue criticism (by some only for sure). We unforgivably haven't really had a great Bond script since CR imho. SF just masked it brilliantly..

    I agree on that. Skyfall did have a sombre and emotional core which kept the audience engrossed with the story above and beyond the plot holes in order to see a Bond prove he wasn't past it and see if M survives the dual assassination on her life and career.

    SPECTRE doesn't have as much time for them so I can appreciate if some audiences find it less satisfying on that level but the 'Secret Room' is a great little scene
    with Bond and Madeline confronted by their past and dealing it\moving on in different ways.
    and Newman nicely sets up that musical motif for Madeline as reprised in the finale with 'out of bullets'.

    Skyfall also benefited from a feeling of striving to be epic and iconic for the 50th anniversary. A great Bond theme and title sequence and stand out visual moments like the stalking of Patrice and Skyfall ablaze.

    SPECTRE instead gives us more reverential moments rather than new icons for the series but again as per my earlier post, it's nice to see the Craig\Mendes take on it. Who'd have thought we'd get a SPECTRE boardroom meeting as chilling as we did.

    I saw it for a third time today and loved the Dr No otherworldly feeling about the base in the desert. Particularity when Madeline is in her room. A futuristic view but with some 50s\60s chair furniture not out of place in Bond's hotel room from Dr No.

    I will agree with what other's have said and that it needs to be seen twice. Once to get it out of your system as to what you expected it to be compared to CR and SF and then then again to savour the moments of what SP is offering.

    Of course that is risky for the box office take for casual audiences and families who may not feel it is worth the cost of re-visit.

    I think the Sony leaks and Craig's slit wrists comments have cast a shadow as otherwise I think most people who would see this film would think the franchise is still in a healthy state. If this has been Craig's debut film, like Brosnan had all the Bond tropes for him in GE, I think this would be seen as a high water mark effort.
  • Posts: 1,225
    I just and across the bleedingcool.com article on the leaked emails and it highlights the issues with the script plus the things they made better or didn't have chance to despite the heads of production realising it wasn't working.

    Am I allowed to post the link?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Cowley wrote: »
    I think the Sony leaks and Craig's slit wrists comments have cast a shadow as otherwise I think most people who would see this film would think the franchise is still in a healthy state. If this has been Craig's debut film, like Brosnan had all the Bond tropes for him in GE, I think this would be seen as a high water mark effort.

    Yes, that is the feeling I have as well, even without seeing it. I'll add WoTW to that as well.....that is when my enthusiasm really began to wane a little and this was compounded by DC's comments. The leaks thing was from months ago and didn't really have any effect on me. The reviews really haven't hurt my perception that much.

    I think you're right though.....if one can approach this film without expectations (and I will try to this week) then it probably will be really enjoyable. I've got my first showing in a prime seat in IMAX and then I'll catch it a couple of days later with friends, like I always do, somewhere else.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Matt007 wrote: »
    I just and across the bleedingcool.com article on the leaked emails and it highlights the issues with the script plus the things they made better or didn't have chance to despite the heads of production realising it wasn't working.

    Am I allowed to post the link?

    That's interesting especially if you find the real life not glossed over making of films fascinating.

  • edited November 2015 Posts: 3,045
    mfmcgreal wrote: »
    There's no point where the film takes a long breath and settles down
    I would say that happened
    at the L'Americain-scenes.
  • Posts: 2,081
    jobo wrote: »
    In general I like to respect people's opinions, but I feel like a lot of the niggling criticism here seems like criticism for the sake of being critical...

    I think it is important that we don't dismiss people's criticisms of SPECTRE as just being criticisms for the sake of it.

    This is exactly what happened with SKYFALL three years ago, and we all know where that lead.

    I think people have genuine issues with the film, as do I, and I think for a lot of people these issues detracted from what they saw could gave been one of the very best Bond films.

    But for the record, I see a lot more positivity for the film than this apparent mass negativity. In fact, there have only been a handful of negative reviews posted on here.

    I agree.
    andmcit wrote: »
    Do you think the positive versus negative vibes and expectations highlighted in the various threads here may be down to the era of Bond that we've all grown up with (linked to our age) which impacts upon how SP is viewed?

    The younger fans who've only followed Bond since PB which then significantly shifted with CR, like the dark heavily centred characterisations more matched with the tortured hero similar to recent Batman films and don't want this shift towards a lighter assured touch of a Connery / Moore Bond on top of his game and is almost nonchalant which plays better to the previous Bond generations. Yep maybe I'm just talking bollocks but it seems those that didn't go for the dark SF like the lighter SP and those that love SF can't stomach SP?

    Obviously perhaps I'm using too broad a brush and generalsed too far maybe but it is an impression I have whilst there are always going to be many exceptions to every rule.

    I don't agree at all.

    I'm not "a younger fan" and I grew up with Moore. I love darker, I love lighter, that isn't the point, and I thought Craig was brilliant in SP. The movie on the whole had a lot of dark stuff in it. I've barely seen reviews from people who "can't stomach" SP, only a couple of negative ones. For the rest... not being head over heels in love with the movie is not the same as "can't stomach".
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    It's a forum for opinions ..but especially with SP I think it's safer to be your own judge.

    It always is, with any movie. Always.

    I'm surprised how many people read reviews (here or press) before seeing the movie. I don't understand why people do.

  • RC7RC7
    edited November 2015 Posts: 10,512
    Mildly depressing to read that some of those who haven't seen it find more credence in the negativity towards this film. There's something unquantifiable about this film, a concoction and balance of ingredients that makes it truly brilliant.
  • Posts: 155
    I don't think a 6 or 7 out of 10 is overly negative. its just that the standard of whats gone before is exceptionally high.
    I agree a lot with @Xandaca on first viewing, but having struggled with it, myself and a friend watching never felt it dragged on- given it was 2 an half hours.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'm just back from watching it on an i-max screen ( only my second viewing)
    and have to say, I even enjoyed it more the second time. :) and at no point
    did I feel it dragged.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 484
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mildly depressing to read that some of those who haven't seen it find more credence in the negativity towards this film. There's something unquantifiable about this film, a concoction and balance of ingredients that makes it truly brilliant.

    There does seem to be a select few who are almost encouraging the fans stateside to be unduly pessimistic and it's disheartening as I'm sure the majority will enjoy it.

    There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the film and as a BOND film I do think it betters Skyfall. It may lack either the Fleming source novel or overtly emotional dramatic material to be an immediate classic but for any fan already disposed to the Craig films it's top ten material at least.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    Cowley wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Mildly depressing to read that some of those who haven't seen it find more credence in the negativity towards this film. There's something unquantifiable about this film, a concoction and balance of ingredients that makes it truly brilliant.

    There does seem to be a select few who are almost encouraging the fans stateside to be unduly pessimistic and it's disheartening as I'm sure the majority will enjoy it.

    There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the film and as a BOND film I do think it betters Skyfall. It may lack either the Fleming source novel or overtly emotional dramatic material to be an immediate classic but for any fan already disposed to the Craig films it's top ten material at least.

    The strange thing is, for every one that cried out for, "the Bond we all know and love" that's precisely what we got; coupled with the fun aspect of what makes a Bond film a Bond film without ever crossing the line of embarrassing silliness; and now there are complaints because it's not a melancholic Bond outing that stirs the heart and flying kicks one in the gut. Ridiculous.

  • Posts: 484
    doubleoego wrote: »
    The strange thing is, for every one that cried out for, "the Bond we all know and love" that's precisely what we got; coupled with the fun aspect of what makes a Bond film a Bond film without ever crossing the line of embarrassing silliness; and now there are complaints because it's not a melancholic Bond outing that stirs the heart and flying kicks one in the gut. Ridiculous.

    Yup it sure is. Some fans have moaned for years that the Craig films are too serious, and wanted a TSWLM type film as far back as QOS, they still didn't get it with SF, but do have it now with SP and yet the other side now puts the boot in!

    That said although there are a few Roger moments it's still quite a dark and serious affair for the final segment. The
    torture
    scene never fails to silence the cinema audience from that point on each time I've watched it.
  • Posts: 4,430
    "There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the film" its all opinion, there are few facts when it comes to interpreting art.
  • Posts: 1,068
    This one's a real grower that is easily better with more viewings. I can't wait to see it my 3rd time - it's fantastic!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    Cowley wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    The strange thing is, for every one that cried out for, "the Bond we all know and love" that's precisely what we got; coupled with the fun aspect of what makes a Bond film a Bond film without ever crossing the line of embarrassing silliness; and now there are complaints because it's not a melancholic Bond outing that stirs the heart and flying kicks one in the gut. Ridiculous.

    Yup it sure is. Some fans have moaned for years that the Craig films are too serious, and wanted a TSWLM type film as far back as QOS, they still didn't get it with SF, but do have it now with SP and yet the other side now puts the boot in!

    That said although there are a few Roger moments it's still quite a dark and serious affair for the final segment. The
    torture
    scene never fails to silence the cinema audience from that point on each time I've watched it.

    Agreed. SP retains an encompassing seriousness that's been threaded since CR but it definitely celebrates the enjoyability and fun factor that one typically expects from a Bond film.
  • Posts: 1,225
    I want the film to improve with repeated viewings.

    I thought the first two thirds were great. Funnily
    Enough so did the Sony execs when the script was going through its chaos. I just feel the end is underwhelming. There's a great film trying to get out its frustrating that it never realised its potential.

    Trouble is That Craig's tenure took a different approach for the first 3. I think It's a case of be careful what you wish for. I'm not sure we need any Bond films like the old days anymore. It took Spectre to make me think that.

    Everyone I know except one has commented the film is good not great. That's a shame because the premise is good and the opportunity was there.

    That said I thought SF was underwhelming at first but I love that now. I'm sure I'll come round. Gonna see it for a third time this week.
  • Posts: 484
    patb wrote: »
    "There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the film" its all opinion, there are few facts when it comes to interpreting art.

    Of course it's all opinion but surely there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the film unless everyone is of the same opinion about some of the supposed flaws and plot failings presented.

    Instead plenty are saying they have enjoyed this rather than SP has major problems that impeded any enjoyment. The low expectations now set in some of the forum members yet to see it just isn't warranted...in my humble opinion.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm a forum member with currently low expectations as a result of comments here and elsewhere, and I'm happy for that.

    I was on a total high until Smith opened his mouth. That previous early high was too much. It was unsustainable. It was bound for disappointment. So I have to thank him, and DC for taking me down quite a few pegs.

    I'm just in the right place now to see SP and enjoy it, thanks to the balanced spoiler free reviews here and elsewhere that have not made it out that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread (I've been there and heard that nonsense with SF and it wasn't true then and it's probably not true now either).

    The man I am most thankful to however is Smith. He is the one who pricked my bubble.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm a forum member with currently low expectations as a result of comments here and elsewhere, and I'm happy for that.

    I was on a total high until Smith opened his mouth. That previous early high was too much. It was unsustainable. It was bound for disappointment. So I have to thank him, and DC for taking me down quite a few pegs.

    I'm just in the right place now to see SP and enjoy it, thanks to the balanced spoiler free reviews here and elsewhere that have not made it out that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread (I've been there and heard that nonsense with SF and it wasn't true then and it's probably not true now either).

    The man I am most thankful to however is Smith. He is the one who pricked my bubble.

    The best advice I can give to you and to any Bond fan, is to just sit back, relax and enjoy. If you want to pay attention to all the details and scrutinise, save it for your second or third viewing at the cinema. ;)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    +1, it's a great film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm a forum member with currently low expectations as a result of comments here and elsewhere, and I'm happy for that.

    I was on a total high until Smith opened his mouth. That previous early high was too much. It was unsustainable. It was bound for disappointment. So I have to thank him, and DC for taking me down quite a few pegs.

    I'm just in the right place now to see SP and enjoy it, thanks to the balanced spoiler free reviews here and elsewhere that have not made it out that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread (I've been there and heard that nonsense with SF and it wasn't true then and it's probably not true now either).

    The man I am most thankful to however is Smith. He is the one who pricked my bubble.

    The best advice I can give to you and to any Bond fan, is to just sit back, relax and enjoy. If you want to pay attention to all the details and scrutinise, save it for your second or third viewing at the cinema. ;)

    Great. Thx @doubleoego. I will do that. I have a tendency to overanalyze on the first viewing normally and then really enjoy it the 2nd time, but I'll try to do it the other way and see how it goes. As I said, I'm in a good place right now in terms of expectations.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    bondjames wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm a forum member with currently low expectations as a result of comments here and elsewhere, and I'm happy for that.

    I was on a total high until Smith opened his mouth. That previous early high was too much. It was unsustainable. It was bound for disappointment. So I have to thank him, and DC for taking me down quite a few pegs.

    I'm just in the right place now to see SP and enjoy it, thanks to the balanced spoiler free reviews here and elsewhere that have not made it out that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread (I've been there and heard that nonsense with SF and it wasn't true then and it's probably not true now either).

    The man I am most thankful to however is Smith. He is the one who pricked my bubble.

    The best advice I can give to you and to any Bond fan, is to just sit back, relax and enjoy. If you want to pay attention to all the details and scrutinise, save it for your second or third viewing at the cinema. ;)

    Great. Thx @doubleoego. I will do that. I have a tendency to overanalyze on the first viewing normally and then really enjoy it the 2nd time, but I'll try to do it the other way and see how it goes. As I said, I'm in a good place right now in terms of expectations.

    Well I hope you do manage to enjoy it. It's always unfortunate waiting for so long for a Bond film only to be left disappointed but I think given your level of expectations as they are now you'll like it.
  • grunther wrote: »
    I don't think a 6 or 7 out of 10 is overly negative. its just that the standard of whats gone before is exceptionally high.
    I agree a lot with @Xandaca on first viewing, but having struggled with it, myself and a friend watching never felt it dragged on- given it was 2 an half hours.

    A 6 for me is an above average movie. I'll probably see it again tomorrow or the day after, but so far am standing by that. The good bits are great, the bad ranges from slightly misjudged to infuriating (everything to do with Oberhauser). It's currently 17/24 in my Bond movie rankings, couched between For Your Eyes Only (16th) and The Man With The Golden Gun. Considering there are only three Bonds I'd say are genuinely bad movies (Diamonds, View, Die Another Day), or at least ones I don't have enough affection for to compensate (Moonraker), it's in the section I'd classify as decent but noticeably flawed.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 1,068
    The ride will draw you in from the very opening Colombia screen and time rolls along with ease. If SS has put the chills on it for you @bondjames the title sequence works - I hadn't heard WotW before and the epic start all gelled superbly well. I rate it on a par if shading better than CR!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Good to know @andmcit. I'm stoked, but also realistic with this one. I'm sure it will be much better than the worst reviews here for me, and probably not as great as the best reviews... I tend to be a middle of the road kind of guy anyway.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,385
    I agree with @doubleoego - just sit back and enjoy. Like you @bondjames I have a problem over analyzing, but with Spectre it wasn't the case.
  • Posts: 266
    I really enjoyed it, agree with others that it gets better with each viewing, have seen it 3 times now and enjoyed it more each time.

    I think sometimes when i see a Bond film for the first time i'm anxious and nervous that it isn't going to be very good. So after I've watched it and found out it is good, with the next viewing(s) i can just sit back and enjoy.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 1,098
    Sharky wrote: »
    I really enjoyed it, agree with others that it gets better with each viewing, have seen it 3 times now and enjoyed it more each time.

    I think sometimes when i see a Bond film for the first time i'm anxious and nervous that it isn't going to be very good. So after I've watched it and found out it is good, with the next viewing(s) i can just sit back and enjoy.

    Exactly........from a Bond fans perspective, obviously on first viewing of a new Bond film, you are a little anxious, coz you so much want to enjoy the film.

    I will be seeing the film for a second time this week, just so i can catch up with the bits of the film i didn't really pick up first time.

    btw: why is everyone getting so worked up on this film?..........forget the few negative things you've heard from some people.............just go and see the film for yourself.
    If you spend your entire life basing your decisions on what some others have said......you aint gonna enjoy anything are you? Now come on! :)
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