Current geopolitical developments create even better source/plot material for future Bond films

edited August 2014 in SPECTRE Posts: 11,119
Back in "Skyfall", the late female 'M' said: "Today I've repeatedly heard how irrelevant my department has become. "Why do we need agents, the Double-0 section? Isn't it all antiquated?" Well, I suppose I see a different world than you do, and the truth is that what I see frightens me. I'm frightened because our enemies are no longer known to us. They do not exist on a map. They're not nations, they're individuals. And look around you. Who do you fear? Can you see a face, a uniform, a flag? No! Our world is not more transparent now, it's more opaque! It's in the shadows. That's where we must do battle. So before you declare us irrelevant, ask yourselves, how safe do you feel?"

"Skyfall" was produced in 2011/2012. And look where we stand now two years after "Skyfall". The world is indeed more opaque, more complicated, when it comes down to geopolitical developments. Perhaps the only difference is, that we do link enemies -like certain narcistic, populist, autocratic presidents on this planet- to certain nations. We actually have started some of the old Cold War retorical inuendo again. And Russia has become in just one year time a "villainous nation" for many people in the classical West.

Russia. Who would have guessed that a president like Putin is turning mother Russia from a silent capitalist, semi-democratic, post-Soviet-nation into a full-blown Soviet-like dictatorship?

I think this offers plentiful material for future Bond film plots. The current geopolitical developments are a bit scary, but it could prove valuable and exciting source material for agent 007.

As 'M' said in 2012: "I'm frightened because our enemies are no longer known to us. They do not exist on a map. They're not nations, they're individuals."

I think it's time for a realistic Bond villain who likes to heat up tensions between the West and Russia again. Call him Blofeld, or SPECTRE's Nr.1. Not because it's cheesy or old-fashioned. But because we really live in such times again. The Pierce Brosnan-cheese is over. "Funny" sex scandals, a near "perfect" 1990's economy, its prosperity, welfare and lack of real conflicts are over. Welcome "Cold War 2.0". A Cold War with a difference. A smarter, sneekier "war", in which espionage will be thriving again.

What kind of geopolitical developments would you like to see in the upcoming 24th James Bond film? Please let us know :-).
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Comments

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    The more things change the more they stay the same.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    I also heard USA has started to bomb Irak again? I haven't followed all the news about it but I heard of what they now call the 'Islamic State' (reminds me of '24' season 8). So are we back to what it was 10 years ago? So yes, as @chrisisall, the more things change the more they stay the same.

    Or, as Brosnan's Bond said in GE 'governments change, lies stay the same'
  • Posts: 11,119
    But the point is: That's a golden age for Bond writers.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    But the point is: That's a golden age for Bond writers.
    Eh, it's a golden age for Bond when the writer is golden. More complicated eras just make it easier for lesser writers.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Good post Graves. The world is becoming very nasty. Isis reminds of the Nazi Party. Genocidal mass killers, bent on overunning as much territory as they can.

    Who you talking about here?
    "...like certain narcistic, populist, autocratic presidents on this planet- to certain nations."
    Obama or Putin? I wonder because I don't equate populist with Putin, but populist does, or at least it did resonate with Obama at one point. And a case for both narcissistic and autocratic can be made for Obama.

    Don't want to be a warmonger. But this ISIS scourge needs to be confronted head-on.
    Keep up the air strikes and send in the troops and heavy weaponry.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    timmer wrote: »
    Don't want to be a warmonger. But this ISIS scourge needs to be confronted head-on.
    Keep up the air strikes and send in the troops and heavy weaponry.
    War is a tool, and like any other, the more you rely on one over all the others, the sloppier your work becomes and the farther from your actual goal you get. IMO it's just as important to make the good guys your friends, and help them to a position of strength so they can control the bullies themselves. And I don't mean just militarily. Ever notice how fleas haven't been wiped out no matter how hard we try & how many new ways to kill them there are?
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 4,622
    I may be oversimpliyfing, but ISIS, like the Nazis, are bent on genocide and domination. They need to be dealt with. They are going to keep rounding up and killing people. The Kurdish military has engaged them in full out war. USA has wisely launched air strikes. Like the Nazis, they somehow have to be put down and de-fanged.
    Weapons of war does seem to be the answer as they themselves are waging war. And IMO the only way to fight a war is all out. ie fight to win and destroy your enemy, otherwise things drag out and more people die.
    And this time if the USA does fully engage again and launch an all-out military effort, once the objective has been achieved, the enemy destroyed or at least scattered, then this time, the USA should remain indefinitely as an occupying force. Democray may be futile, given the region's culture and history, but the USA/Nato could remain until such time as Iraq was able to build up its own military and economy and remain as a US protectorate.
    IMO the West needs Iraq as an ally in this very volatile region.
    If Warren Murphy and Jim Mullaney were still writing Destroyer novels, Harold Smith and Cure would be sending Remo and Chiun in to take down and destroy ISIS singlehandedly. Remo might even go Shiva on them.
    Remo's wreaked plenty of havoc in the region before and House of Sinanju does strike fear amongst the area's despots and rulers.
    So yes, with Remo parked for the time being, Bond, although nowhere near as lethal ( there is only one House of Sinanju) could be counted on maybe to deal these death dealers some of their own medicine. Blow lots of stuff up and take out some of the nastier leaders.
    Yes please do work such into the next movie plot. If Bond does a good job, I might even become a serious Craig fan.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I think all of the terrible things happening in the world - the mixture of horrors going on, the deceit, the land grabs, the religious intolerance, etc. - can be fodder for a Bond story in film or book. Even individual news (not just wars), like the pedophile father from Australia using a Thai surrogate mother and then rejecting (apparently, although now being disputed) the boy that was born with Downs Syndrome - that whole mess, could be used in a film, including a Bond film. Not that I have a clear idea of how to put the current tragedies and horrors into a Bond film; I don't. I'm just saying current news is always fodder for storytelling.

    Islamic State/ISIS, all kinds of retribution, the stoning to death of women, a young boy holding up a severed head, the bloody dispute between Russia and the Ukraine, China and Japan escalating their dispute over islands, etc. - it is all material for a writer.

    Sad to say, things escalate quickly around the world. And these days we definitely have the media saturation (and penetration) to hear about atrocities quickly and in detail.


  • edited August 2014 Posts: 3,564
    Not that I have a clear idea of how to put the current tragedies and horrors into a Bond film; I don't. I'm just saying current news is always fodder for storytelling.

    Everything that happens in the world around one is grist for the writer's mill ... political as well as personal. A good writer will produce a good story from the same material a mediocre writer uses to produce a mediocre story. The only real question is: what sort of story would best serve the needs of today's audience? One that pits Bond against real world foes, or one that is more escapist in nature? As much as some might like to see Bond destroy the likes of ISIS at the earliest possible moment, my own suspicion is that the time is right for some escapist fare right about now.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs you are wise...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I'd really like a lighter fare without it becoming a farce. But something lighter, fun, and adventurous escapist fare for Bond 24: I'd love that. :)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Especially after M's sad departure.
  • Posts: 4,622
    As much as I would like to see Bond take out ISIS, I think that fits better with the Destroyer novels. Remo is better equipped for such work. It may happen, as I see the series has been revived via ebook and Kindle digital downloads. Have to get downloading. I am suddenly 3 books behind. :-O

    As for Bond, I much prefer the edgy escapist fare that we got the in the '60s and even the '70s notwithstanding the Rog lighter touch.
    Bond battling Spectre with girls galore is best! A modern day Blofeld could even mock the ISIS rabble -dismiss them as common thugs. Bond might even briefly engage the ISIS barbarians, but the real threat would be whatever world domination scheme that Spectre and the madman Blofeld was cooking up.
    We need some exciting escapist nonsense fare but still with the violent Connery edge. But no fear there. Craig is every bit as convincing as Connery was when it comes to violence. He just needs to evolve the Connery swagger.
  • Posts: 14,816
    Didn't we have a similar thread before? Anyway, I cannot see Islamist terrorism be used in Bond movies except as a blurry background (like in CR and SF, when it is not even named), because of the susceptibility of Islamists, for one, and because of its utterly unglamorous nature.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    The thing is many of us welcome more of an escapist feel, a lighter feel, but it can too easily go wrong. One step to far into the campiness arena, and ugh!
    Thanks in good measure to the Austin Powers films, which are indelibly printed in many peoples' minds and the awfulness known as DAD. And also simply because Roger Moore could handle over the top humor better than any other Bond actor (better than most actors, period) - it suited him like a glove. I think we should not go strongly into that area again. Possibly ever.

    The humor needs balance. It is tricky. But I definitely want to see Bond enjoying himself more again in Bond 24.

    As for world situations - bombs of any kind will always be a good thing for a Bond film, if suspensefully done and not just for explosions. Terrorists ... I am unsure. I prefer one evil, slimy master villain. A villain with an all invasive network or just one strong group to do his bidding. I don't think that I want today's current headlines regarding terrorist groups or specific wars as a direct reference in the next few Bond films. But that is just my feelings at this time. A well written story bringing in Quantum would be welcomed by me. But not completely necessary. I do want a strong, memorable, and truly despicable villain (male or female). I do not think I want a direct reference to current world events as far as specific factions go.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Actually I think Roger Moore is the worst kind of actor for the escapist campy fair, because he doesn't counterbalance it. Too much wink wink. Like a comedian breaking character and laughing at his own act. We lose the danger and supsense. eg fight with Jaws at the pyramids.
    What works I think is a grounded dangerous actor like Connery or even Craig, who offsets the mad schemes and set pieces, with a relaxed but deadly serious, dangerous presence. Trick is for the Bond actor, to never let on that its all really escapist nonsense, and play it straight. Play up the danger and suspense. Craig could do this as well as either Connery or Laz, but his films have all been heavy on character drama and less about the suave but deadly, double 00 agent known as James Bond, simply being on mission, battling crazy outlandish world domination schemes, masterminded by supervillains, in worlds populated by exotic women and locations, eccentric henchmen and allies.
    This is what the Bondmania '60s films did so well. They combined high camp with real danger and suspense. But you need an actor like Connery to really pull it altogether and make the fantasy believable and dangerous. Lazenby was adequate IMO. He played it straight like Connery. Moore and Broz not so much. Neither were convincing enough IMO as dangerous dudes. Dalton, again IMO, was a little too intense at times, although he might have relaxed in time.
    Craig does have Connery potential. He's just got to actually want to do a great escapist Bond adventure, minus Bond having personal issues.
    Slipping some ISIS or real world elements into the fantasy mix is easily done.
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    edited August 2014 Posts: 57
    Having Bond get involved in a 'boots on the ground' situation wont work. The blessing of the cold war was that no one saw what was going on, and as far as people were concerned it was a never ending clash of ideologies, not good vs bad per se. Even other attempts at 'cold' relations failed: look at the N. Korea debacle of DAD. Perhaps some sort of real life political mess can serve as a background plot or serve as an excuse to see SPECTRE, Quantum or anyone else come to the fore as a back channel threat may work, but Bond was never based in the real world, even when dressed up in Cold War drag. I'd much rather a story that is good on merit than the best fit for a warped politically integrated plot.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 372
    I truly don't mean to sound rude here but I'd like to think of current geopolitical developments as something more than just a plot device for a movie...

    And I agree with @4EverBonded, I hope they don't make things so heavy-handed. Something lighter doesn't necessarily mean a Bond film of lesser quality. :)
  • Posts: 11,119
    I truly don't mean to sound rude here but I'd like to think of current geopolitical developments as something more than just a plot device for a movie...

    And I agree with @4EverBonded, I hope they don't make things so heavy-handed. Something lighter doesn't necessarily mean a Bond film of lesser quality. :)

    It's how you look at things really. Look to "Thunderball". SPECTRE was hijacking two atomic bombs. Allthough that mere plot looked cheesy to many people, one can ask him-/herself what would happen if SPECTRE really detonated a bomb on a big city in the USA.

    Allthough SPECTRE itself was designed in such a way (production design, Blofeld stroking cat) that the organization looked like some kind of gay counterpart of the Bilderberg Conference, nowadays Hamas is bombing Israel. Just to name an example. Or what about using an airplane as a "bomb", LIKE 9/11?

    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.
  • Posts: 4,622
    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.
    Your TB analogy works @Graves. There is a way to mesh real world scenarios with 007's more exciting and escapist fantasy world.

  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    Posts: 57
    SPECTRE in Thunderball is a good example of Geo-Politics used in Bond.

    Except, the Geo bit of it. They had no nation.

    And the politics bit - they were in it for the money.

    But apart from that...

    ;)
  • Posts: 14,816
    TB may be the most realistic and simple plot of the franchise, yet it is large scale.
  • Posts: 246
    Hate the idea of grabbing a headline to fashion a plot.

    The state of the world can be acknowledged in a Bond film, but I don't think it should do anything more than help create an informed backdrop for the narrative to stand out from.

    The challenge as I see it is to create a well-rounded villain with a veneer of plausibility that wasn't necessary pre-Craig. The cartoon elements of Bond are now heavily underplayed so we now have characters approaching the three-dimensional, with understandable, if indefensible, motivation.

    That said though, the story itself can (and I would say should) be much larger than life - even tending-to-the-ludicrous plots can work so long as they're just plausible enough to accommodate the (slightly) more realistic characters and dialogue that we need now.

    So I offer you a first act of terrorist-busting action in your choice of war-torn territories globally. A second act where we discover that there's a super-rich megalomaniac with a disability who's been exploiting said terrorists to his own nefarious and cataclysmic end. And finally a third act where Bond thwarts with prejudice, no doubt assisted by one of the lady terrorists he decided not to thwart in act 1 and who has now seen the light.



  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,119
    Well, just look at Silva. He's obviously the larger-than-life version of Julian Assange. Or what about Le ChiffRE. Banker to the world's biggest terrorists. Well, ISIS must have a bunch of such finances too no? Albeit not finances who've weeping blood.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Or what about Le Chiffon.

    Le Chiffon. Isn't he a nefarious drag act?
  • Posts: 908
    Well, just look at Silva. He's obviously the larger-than-life version of Julian Assange.

    This is ridiculous on so many levels ( speaking strictly as a non Fan of Mr Assange)!
  • Posts: 14,816
    Why? Silva certainly looked like he was freely inspired by Assange. Whether or not it was conscious is an entirely different story.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Why? Silva certainly looked like he was freely inspired by Assange. Whether or not it was conscious is an entirely different story.

    Indeed Lúdico. And there's nothing wrong with that I think. I was watching 'octopussy' the other day. Did you hear what that crazy Soviet general Orlov said to the members of the Politburo? "The West is decadent. And divided!!" 1983 was certainly another, albeit the last height, of an intensified Cold War. There was even a guy in that scene who obviously looked like Brenznjev.

    And the funny thing is, after watching that map at which Orlov was pointing, that I couldn't stop thinking that this little mad general Orlov actually reminded me of.....Putin :-o

  • timmer wrote: »
    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.
    Your TB analogy works @Graves. There is a way to mesh real world scenarios with 007's more exciting and escapist fantasy world.

    I never thoug
    I truly don't mean to sound rude here but I'd like to think of current geopolitical developments as something more than just a plot device for a movie...

    And I agree with @4EverBonded, I hope they don't make things so heavy-handed. Something lighter doesn't necessarily mean a Bond film of lesser quality. :)

    It's how you look at things really. Look to "Thunderball". SPECTRE was hijacking two atomic bombs. Allthough that mere plot looked cheesy to many people, one can ask him-/herself what would happen if SPECTRE really detonated a bomb on a big city in the USA.

    Allthough SPECTRE itself was designed in such a way (production design, Blofeld stroking cat) that the organization looked like some kind of gay counterpart of the Bilderberg Conference, nowadays Hamas is bombing Israel. Just to name an example. Or what about using an airplane as a "bomb", LIKE 9/11?

    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.

    I never thought it couldn't be written into the script in a not-so-obvious way though, but I think there's ethical problems.
  • timmer wrote: »
    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.
    Your TB analogy works @Graves. There is a way to mesh real world scenarios with 007's more exciting and escapist fantasy world.

    I never thoug
    I truly don't mean to sound rude here but I'd like to think of current geopolitical developments as something more than just a plot device for a movie...

    And I agree with @4EverBonded, I hope they don't make things so heavy-handed. Something lighter doesn't necessarily mean a Bond film of lesser quality. :)

    It's how you look at things really. Look to "Thunderball". SPECTRE was hijacking two atomic bombs. Allthough that mere plot looked cheesy to many people, one can ask him-/herself what would happen if SPECTRE really detonated a bomb on a big city in the USA.

    Allthough SPECTRE itself was designed in such a way (production design, Blofeld stroking cat) that the organization looked like some kind of gay counterpart of the Bilderberg Conference, nowadays Hamas is bombing Israel. Just to name an example. Or what about using an airplane as a "bomb", LIKE 9/11?

    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.

    I never thought it couldn't be written into the script in a not-so-obvious way though, but I think there's ethical problems.

    What kind of ethical problems if I may ask? I'm really curious about that. It's one of the reasons why certain funeral scenes in 'Skyfall' were deleted.
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