Ian Fleming had a cameo in FRWL ?

2

Comments

  • Posts: 1,120
    ggl007 wrote:
    ggl007 wrote:
    One thing is sure. Fleming´s walking stick is not the one in the film. Fleming´s is really shorter...
    Disagree 100%. The stick looks pretty much the same length. Take a look at the angles of the photos again. The only shot with the full length of the stick (Fleming sat in front of the train), and the bottom of the stick disappears between the tracks.

    Plus, it is very difficult to really figure out how long the stick is in the movie shot too.

    Here you have two photos: http://casaforte.blogspot.it/2012/11/who-is-this-man-ian-fleming-cameo-in.html
    In Fleming´s, he is sitting on the stick. In the other the stick is near his elbow...

    Check this link, its much clearer - http://jakemcmillan.wordpress.com/tag/unsolved/

    It appears as though Fleming is wearing a blue cap, and carrying 2 sticks. One is very long, and the other looks like his normal walking stick.

  • @jetsetwilly I did look at the higher definition photo u mentioned in that link you posted above and it is more convincing than the other low quality versions. I know somebody at EON knows this answer
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,120
    @jetsetwilly I did look at the higher definition photo u mentioned in that link you posted above and it is more convincing than the other low quality versions. I know somebody at EON knows this answer
    Maybe EON will confess all on the Blu Ray.

    I actually knew about Fleming appearing in this scene back in the 1980's, and always thought it was a fact. I never realised EON had never actually officially announced it was Fleming in that scene.

    I also noticed the figure myself when first watching FRWL years ago, and even wondered back then if that was Fleming, due to the exact same clothes and walking stick as the Fleming photos taken at the same location. You didn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.....

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 260
    @jetsetwilly I think it would be great for MI6 confidential magazine to do an in depth article on this and atleast try to get to the bottom of this. Perhaps MI6 CONFIDENTIAL can contact EON ?
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,981
    You didn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.....
    Well, just for the anecdote, in the 80's it was known as an urban legend in the Bond fan circles I was in (ie : "everybody" thinks it's Fleming but it's not, the "explanation" of this "urban legend" was that it was just some random guy preventing the cow or sheep from entering the shot, probably hitting his two wood sticks in case the animal came closer to the rail tracks, then staying between the animal and the tracks waiting for the shot to complete, and then looking at the camera to check if it was ok). And we were well aware of the B&W photos on location (which are the basis of the cameo hypothesis, and not their proof !)

    Now with the Blu-Ray image, well, hard to say with certainty 'it's him" or "it's not', but well, why would they have put an ill person all alone just in front of a animal, close to a train coming ? I'm sure they wanted him alive as long as possible !

    Now on the other hand, maybe the crew had in mind to shot the train slowing down because of the animals... it's supposed to be the spot where Kerim Bey's son had planned to pick them up after they went out of the train, and the animals would have been the method.






  • So Fleming takes of his normal trousers (pants) and puts on a pair of jeans (Levis) and a cap for this shot? I doubt it. If it were true I think a lot more "evidence" would have come to light by now. If and a big if, if he was in the film it would have been more likely during a crowd shot on a station or on the train.
  • Posts: 1,120
    Ellipsis wrote:
    So Fleming takes of his normal trousers (pants) and puts on a pair of jeans (Levis) and a cap for this shot? I doubt it. If it were true I think a lot more "evidence" would have come to light by now. If and a big if, if he was in the film it would have been more likely during a crowd shot on a station or on the train.
    Levis jeans??? You can see that from the photo?? Were they 501's or 512's? I'm guessing they were buttoned flies though, right?

    The stupidity level on here sometimes is shocking!!!

    The pants look exactly the same to me. And Fleming wore hats often. I'm guessing he may have stuck a cap on if it was sunny, as he wasn't a well man by this period.

  • Posts: 1,120
    You didn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.....
    Well, just for the anecdote, in the 80's it was known as an urban legend in the Bond fan circles I was in (ie : "everybody" thinks it's Fleming but it's not, the "explanation" of this "urban legend" was that it was just some random guy preventing the cow or sheep from entering the shot, probably hitting his two wood sticks in case the animal came closer to the rail tracks, then staying between the animal and the tracks waiting for the shot to complete, and then looking at the camera to check if it was ok). And we were well aware of the B&W photos on location (which are the basis of the cameo hypothesis, and not their proof !)

    Now with the Blu-Ray image, well, hard to say with certainty 'it's him" or "it's not', but well, why would they have put an ill person all alone just in front of a animal, close to a train coming ? I'm sure they wanted him alive as long as possible !

    Now on the other hand, maybe the crew had in mind to shot the train slowing down because of the animals... it's supposed to be the spot where Kerim Bey's son had planned to pick them up after they went out of the train, and the animals would have been the method.
    Where is there any evidence that animals existed in a field right next to a railway track? So they needed someone there constantly to prevent an animal wandering onto the track? Do animals wander onto that railway line often then? There must have been a lot of train crashes on that line then.

    As for being close to the train....he's not that close.





  • This is right up as a conspiracy with who really shot JFK!
  • Posts: 1,120
    This is right up as a conspiracy with who really shot JFK!
    I don't know why people have a hard time believing Fleming could have popped up in a shot while actually being at the very same place on location - wearing the exact same clothes and holding a walking stick.

    The moronic level on here sometimes is outstanding.....

  • This is right up as a conspiracy with who really shot JFK!
    I don't know why people have a hard time believing Fleming could have popped up in a shot while actually being at the very same place on location - wearing the exact same clothes and holding a walking stick.

    The moronic level on here sometimes is outstanding.....

    I sincerely hope you're not including me as being moronic. My post was being sarcastic. I was making comment over reading all the posts on here. It seems to me that people are getting too passionate about did he, didn't he? I would like to think he was but the image is not conclusive so I'm happy to leave it at that. It has become somewhat of a conspiracy on here, what is the truth?.... I'm sure it is out there!!!
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,120
    This is right up as a conspiracy with who really shot JFK!
    I don't know why people have a hard time believing Fleming could have popped up in a shot while actually being at the very same place on location - wearing the exact same clothes and holding a walking stick.

    The moronic level on here sometimes is outstanding.....

    I sincerely hope you're not including me as being moronic. My post was being sarcastic. I was making comment over reading all the posts on here. It seems to me that people are getting too passionate about did he, didn't he? I would like to think he was but the image is not conclusive so I'm happy to leave it at that. It has become somewhat of a conspiracy on here, what is the truth?.... I'm sure it is out there!!!

    No, my comment wasn't directed at you. It's to the certain person who claimed the man in the shot is wearing Levis 501 jeans, including a buttoned up fly.
  • This is right up as a conspiracy with who really shot JFK!
    I don't know why people have a hard time believing Fleming could have popped up in a shot while actually being at the very same place on location - wearing the exact same clothes and holding a walking stick.

    The moronic level on here sometimes is outstanding.....

    I sincerely hope you're not including me as being moronic. My post was being sarcastic. I was making comment over reading all the posts on here. It seems to me that people are getting too passionate about did he, didn't he? I would like to think he was but the image is not conclusive so I'm happy to leave it at that. It has become somewhat of a conspiracy on here, what is the truth?.... I'm sure it is out there!!!

    No, my comment wasn't directed at you. It's to the certain person who claimed the man in the shot is wearing Levis 501 jeans, including a buttoned up fly.

    No worries. I didn't read that one but completely agree that is plain moronic. Some people say the most stupid things just to get a rise.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 260
    Yes those pants on the figure shown in the picture are clearly not Levi jeans . seriously come on. In my honest opinion I am 70% out 100% that it is Fleming. Somebody knows the truth about this at EON, and god damn the truth needs to be found out. MI6 confidential should definitely try researching this and get in contact with EON
  • Posts: 1,120
    Yes those pants on the figure shown in the picture are clearly not Levi jeans . seriously come on. In my honest opinion I am 70% out 100% that it is Fleming. Somebody knows the truth about this at EON, and god damn the truth needs to be found out. MI6 confidential should definitely try researching this and get in contact with EON
    I think Ellipsis is in danger of being a troll with his ridiculous comments.

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,981
    Where is there any evidence that animals existed in a field right next to a railway track?

    In the movie itself ! You can see a beast moving at the right border of the screen in front of this person.

    http://www.jamesbond-shop.com/Ian_Fleming_FRWL_Cameo.jpg

    (yes I see the irony to use an URL showing that the author believes like you :) )
    So they needed someone there constantly to prevent an animal wandering onto the track? Do animals wander onto that railway line often then? There must have been a lot of train crashes on that line then.

    Please read my comments about the possible planned scene of the animals forcing the train to slow down (ie : the actual escape plan that was organized by Kerim Bey's son).

    I think that the B&W photos of the set visit is for you a "proof", while it is actually the only reason to think maybe it could be him. So it's a vicious circle you're in if you want to use that again to demonstrate anything. You don't explain why he would be there, why he would carry two sticks like a sheperd, none a walking one like in the photo. Etc. All the other elements are against this, and since the final image is not a proof at all (frankly, no one says "this is him !" while watching it...), in the end please at least consider that this is more a coincidence than anything.



    Really, it was a well known "urban legend" in the 80's, that made its way in a few trivia books, but never in a serious Bond work I think. Authors close to Eon surely have access to the archives, and could check if Fleming was on "set" the day that second unit action shot was done (it's not even sure this train is actually the train seen in the other part of the movies, we see only the last wagons and they certainly are not carrying passengers !). And then it would have made its way on some serious work, or even DVD commentary etc.


    But, well, thanks, because while doing research to try to find a photo not cut to make the beast disappear from the shot, I stumbed upon a site I did not know :
    http://mitteleuropa.x10.mx/filmlocations_fromrussiawithlove.html
    that is stunning ! (and, well, despite being incredibly detailed, it doesn't have a look at that cameo at all !)

    I didn't even know about this documentary showing Fleming on set with Bey & Grant :

    http://mitteleuropa.x10.mx/files/frwl_from_russia_with_love_frame_documentary_01_010.JPG

    (and here you see despite his age and illness he still looks taller than the "cameo" it seems)
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,120

    I think that the B&W photos of the set visit is for you a "proof", while it is actually the only reason to think maybe it could be him. So it's a vicious circle you're in if you want to use that again to demonstrate anything. You don't explain why he would be there, why he would carry two sticks like a sheperd, none a walking one like in the photo.

    I've no idea why he would be there, I wasn't there during filming. Stranger things have happened on film sets anyway. It would be no big deal to have had Fleming in one blink-and-you-miss it moment on screen. People are making a bigger deal of this than what it really is. We know Fleming was present during filming these scenes, and we know he was wearing similar attire - so it is no big deal if he was accidentally (or not) caught on one shot. I can accept it could easily be him, but it seems you have a very difficult time believing it could be him too - looking for all sorts of conspiracy angles - but why? why would he be there? why would he be so close to the tracks? why is he carrying 2 sticks, etc.?

    Who the hell cares. You are looking way too much into it. I personally think it was him, but if someone involved with the film told me otherwise, I wouldn't have any issues believing that either. It could be a coincidence that the guy looks a bit like Fleming, but having been on a few film sets myself, I know sometimes random things like this does happen, and it could easily have been him in that shot.
    But, well, thanks, because while doing research to try to find a photo not cut to make the beast disappear from the shot, I stumbed upon a site I did not know :
    http://mitteleuropa.x10.mx/filmlocations_fromrussiawithlove.html
    that is stunning !

    Agreed. Very cool site. I stumbled upon that myself too this morning..... B-)
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,981
    It could be a coincidence that the guy looks a bit like Fleming, but having been on a few film sets myself, I know sometimes random things like this does happen, and it could easily have been him in that shot.

    I've been on a few very big budget film sets myself (well, two, but for more than a week), and I'm sure that if any celibrity had been on set, it would never have been put at a spot where any danger could happen (ie : what happen if the beast rushes towards him while the train is passing behind him ?). The long sticks the person has are his everyday shepherd job tools, I'm pretty sure, and he definitely watch for it during the shot, before waiting for an ok signal from the crew when the train has passed.

    For me, I'd say it's 99.9% sure it's not him from all the evidence, actually.

    And well, believe it or not, it was "THE" urban legend of the 80's in Bond fandom at least here in France in the circles I knew, yes I'm that old. And we only had VHS to look at !
    We know Fleming was present during filming these scenes

    Actually, no, I'm far from sure this is the same train ! Or the same crew filming, for that matter.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,120

    I've been on a few very big budget film sets myself (well, two, but for more than a week), and I'm sure that if any celibrity had been on set, it would never have been put at a spot where any danger could happen (ie : what happen if the beast rushes towards him while the train is passing behind him ?). The long sticks the person has are his everyday shepherd job tools, I'm pretty sure, and he definitely watch for it during the shot, before waiting for an ok signal from the crew when the train has passed.

    Back in the 1960's there was not the `elf & safety' brigade that exists now. Take a look at how Bullitt was filmed, or even episodes of 70's cop show The Sweeney. Risk assessments were not all the range back then.

    Maybe Fleming himself wanting a cameo shot, and asked to play the part of a sheperd by the train. Who knows? I doubt the filmmakers would deny him this either on the grounds that a cow may suddenly walk up to him and lick his hand.
    For me, I'd say it's 99.9% sure it's not him from all the evidence, actually.

    Really? A man looking the same as Fleming, wearing the same clothes, and carry a walking stick at the same location, and you are 99.9% sure its not him?? I actually desperately want it to be him now just to shatter your belief that it isn't him. You will no doubt be absolutely devastated if the news officially gets announced it was in fact him. Let's hope so, just to see the smile from your face disappear.
    Actually, no, I'm far from sure this is the same train ! Or the same crew filming, for that matter.

    Really? On what evidence?

  • Posts: 832
    I just called EON and they say it wasn't him.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,981
    Wow, first don't forget English is not my native language, so any subtle undertone in my choice of words that you seem to react badly to is actually random.
    Maybe Fleming himself wanting a cameo shot, and asked to play the part of a sheperd by the train. Who knows?

    Well I have found other comments elsewhere saying the urban legend has been debunked and well

    Ie :
    - Fleming was not present according to the shooting log
    - Yarborough, the official blog of Eon before Twitter, once answered it wasn't him when asked by a fan if it was Fleming in that shot
    - A fan aware of the rumor who watched FWRL in the big screen (ie : even more details than the BluRay caps) and saying it definitely was not him.

    but as they are not sourced you will probably not consider them (links are dead now, and the few left are in the "other" forum we can't link here)

    But you can try to google

    "yarborough replied cameo fleming"
    or
    "I recently saw From Russia With Love projected huge in a brand new digital print"

    I'm moderatly interested in emailing the authors of these comments to obtain the sources or the new links, given I think the evidence is already there...
    Really? A man looking the same as Fleming,

    Well, this man looks smaller to me. Fleming was quite tall.
    wearing the same clothes,

    The fact the photo is B&W widen the possibility of coincidences a lot !
    and carry a walking stick at the same location,

    The only stick we can see does not look at all like the stick we see on the other photos, and actually looks a lot like a shepherd stick. The other one is hidden from view to judge.
    and you are 99.9% sure its not him??

    Don't forget I know this as an "urban legend" for about 20 years now :)
    [Not the same train]
    Really? On what evidence?

    Well this train in this shot has three wagons at the end that are not carrying passengers (unlike the Orient Express according to a quick search), it has people waving from the wagons before to the crew , looks like a generic train shot to me by the second unit, and they cut to the moment where one cannot see the beginning of the train and/or one cannot see the people waving too blatantly. Not we see no plan from the actor playing Kerim Bey's son next to the train, it's a cut in the movie. Hardly the work of a main unit really.
  • Posts: 1,120
    It would be nice if someone came out on the record and stated either way whether it was Fleming or not, just to end all the speculation, and put us all out of our misery...... :-?
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,981
    It would be nice if someone came out on the record and stated either way whether it was Fleming or not, just to end all the speculation, and put us all out of our misery...... :-?

    Well the Yarborough blog was "official", but the blog on dieanotherday.com has totally disappeared and google did not cache it it seems. We just have fans remembering reading it there.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,981
    So I relooked at it...

    Actually, the "train don't stop" scene starts with Kerim Bey's son in the same shot as the train. That's the only part of the scene done with a credited actor and the train in the shot, and the only one where we see the locomotive of it. The only "main unit" shot, one would say (but it may have been done by the second, though :) )

    It is not the same train as the one seen in the photos of Fleming on set (the number on the front is different - 56501 in the movie in this shot at the beginning of the scene, 45503 in the photos). I could stop there, but well, the truth is that the shot of the train arriving may have been shot days before or after the the end shot of the train departing (the one with the "cameo"). I cannot be sure they're different trains (we see the beginning on the first shot, and the end on the second), but it very well could be (simply for logistic reasons). So that's not the smoking gun to say "Debunked !".

    Note that in the close ups of the train it looks like they filmed the people waving. Overall,it definitely looks like 'second unit' work to me. So the different numbers are probably irrelevant.

    But frankly, seeing it again in motion in good digital quality, I think this person does not "looks like" at all like Fleming. In particular, to add to the other evidence listed before, the hair is very, very dark when he looks away from the camera for a split second, no sign of white hair at all. Now I wonder if it's so clear on my old VHS (I wonder also if one can read the number on the VHS too), but I've got nothing left to watch it !!

  • Posts: 122
    oorogers wrote:
    you most remember that Fleming spent a lot of his life in Jamaica so when he was younger he would of had dark hair and darker skin i have seen the pic myself and believe it could be a younger fleming
    Younger?? It was taken just before he died!!!
    oorogers wrote:
    you most remember that Fleming spent a lot of his life in Jamaica so when he was younger he would of had dark hair and darker skin i have seen the pic myself and believe it could be a younger fleming
    oooooooooooopps different photo my bad


    your on about the train tack man could be fleming simlar high etc
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 65
    This thread is hilarious!
    The bloke in the actual footage has a different frame and posture to Fleming, he is very tanned, unlike Fleming, he has a different shaped face /head to Fleming, his hair is darker than Fleming's and his clothes are different to those worn in the photos of Fleming. The trousers are a different colour (yes you can tell even though they are in B&W) and the top although white, is short sleeved. No, the bloke in the photo has not simply go the sleeves rolled up.

    Can any of the above be denied?
  • Yea good observation @thenoisydrum . The pants do seem to be a different color from Flemings even though his photos on the set are B&W.
  • Can any of the above be denied?
    Not really, but don't forget this urban legen was born at the time of VHS (and not at the time of the release of FRWL in the theater, as a matter of fact). Just fuzzy enough to make people wonder...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 24,705
    Yes, such as with Bigfoot, all the shots of this event seem to be purposely fuzzy. CONSPIRACY!!! /:)
  • This legend started because people viewing the film on TV could not see the cow that the shepherd is looking at, they then put 2 & 2 together and came up with 007. The man has a white top. End of similarity. Wrong sticks, wrong height, wrong shape, wrong trousers (Gromit!), wrong facial colour, WRONG MAN! This was a second unit shot and Fleming would not have bothered himself hanging around with the second unit. Eon will never confirm this because the legend is more interesting than the truth. If you want to postulate a Fleming cameo, try this: Who is the man playing the police inspector in the car that collects Miss Taro from her house in Dr. No. This is a studio shot at Pinewood and the man is NOT the actor who played the inspector earlier on but he DOES look like Fleming! Check it out and discuss.
Sign In or Register to comment.