SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,168
    Zekidk wrote: »
    haserot wrote: »
    Act 3 is traditionally the shortest act of any story, as it really houses the resolution and conclusion to the story.... all of this happens once they return to London in the script.

    ACT 1 - PTS thru the scene of Bond at his flat.

    ACT 2 - Rome thru Escaping Oberhauser's Lair

    ACT 3 - London thru end of the film.
    According to the leaks some studio executives were very disappointed with the 3rd act, which they put right after the train fight. Just sayin'.

    from what i read of the studios 3rd act problem.. it was everything from going back to London on.... which is exactly where the 3rd act begins - they had no problem with the train fight stuff or Oberhauser's lair.

    the 3rd Act doesn't pick up after train fight - thats still well too into the middle of the film - that is the 2nd act still.... all 3 acts are not equal length.. as i said before, the 3rd is typically the shortest, because it contains the climax and resolution of the film.

    now since they changed around the climax - that probably means they had to go back into the 2nd Act and alter some things to better support the changes they made in the 3rd Act.
  • When an act begins and another starts is not exact science, and not all movies have three acts. Look at Casino Royale, that movie had four acts rather than three. I do believe Spectre has three acts, and I believe the third act starts either when Bond and Madeleine arrive in Tangier or after the blow up of the villain's desert lair. So I don't think there is only one correct answer to the question "when does the third act start?".
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,168
    When an act begins and another starts is not exact science, and not all movies have three acts. Look at Casino Royale, that movie had four acts rather than three. I do believe Spectre has three acts, and I believe the third act starts either when Bond and Madeleine arrive in Tangier or after the blow up of the villain's desert lair. So I don't think there is only one correct answer to the question "when does the third act start?".

    there are 4 act structures - Macbeth was 4 Acts... but 3 is the most common and widely used... CR, you could make a case that it is 4 Acts, but you could also make the case that it's 3 Acts as well...

    Act 1 - the PTS thru Bond in M's apartment

    Act 2 - Bond in the Bahamas thru Bond at the rehab clinic

    Act 3 - Bond in Venice thru the end of the film


    but... i understand where 4 could come in..


    Act 1 - the PTS thru Bond in M's apartment

    Act 2 - Bond in the Bahamas thru the killing of Le Chieffe

    Act 3 - Bond in Rehab clinic thru Bond and Vesper sailing to Venice

    Act 4 - Bond and Vesper in Venice thru the end of the film


    this is question that only the people who wrote it can answer..
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 3,169
    haserot wrote: »
    but... i understand where 4 could come in..


    Act 1 - the PTS thru Bond in M's apartment

    Act 2 - Bond in the Bahamas thru the killing of Le Chieffe

    Act 3 - Bond in Rehab clinic thru Bond and Vesper sailing to Venice

    Act 4 - Bond and Vesper in Venice thru the end of the film

    I was thinking:
    Act 1 - from the PTS to Bond in M's apartment
    Act 2 - the Bahamas + Miami
    Act 3 - Montenegro, until the death of Le Chriffre
    Act 4 - Italy
    The reason the movie feels to long for a lot of people is that it goes on for another 30 minutes after the death of the main villain. The movie has a perfect three act structure until the death of Le Chiffre.
    this is question that only the people who wrote it can answer..

    ...maybe not even them... I mean I have never written a screenplay in my life, but I can not imagine most screenwriters thinking a lot about when one act starts and another begins.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 10,440

    I was thinking:
    Act 1 - from the PTS to Bond in M's apartment
    Act 2 - the Bahamas + Miami
    Act 3 - Montenegro, until the death of Le Chriffre
    Act 4 - Italy

    That's how I see it too.
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,168
    haserot wrote: »
    but... i understand where 4 could come in..


    Act 1 - the PTS thru Bond in M's apartment

    Act 2 - Bond in the Bahamas thru the killing of Le Chieffe

    Act 3 - Bond in Rehab clinic thru Bond and Vesper sailing to Venice

    Act 4 - Bond and Vesper in Venice thru the end of the film

    I was thinking:
    Act 1 - from the PTS to Bond in M's apartment
    Act 2 - the Bahamas + Miami
    Act 3 - Montenegro, until the death of Le Chriffre
    Act 4 - Italy
    The reason the movie feels to long for a lot of people is that it goes on for another 30 minutes after the death of the main villain. The movie has a perfect three act structure until the death of Le Chiffre.
    this is question that only the people who wrote it can answer..

    ...maybe not even them... I mean I have never written a screenplay in my life, but I can not imagine most screenwriters thinking a lot about when one act starts and another begins.

    LOL no, they dont have diagrams all laid on a bulletin board like a road map.... to the majority of screenwriters though it's secondhand knowledge - though i would agree that probably most write without even thinking about it until after they are done, or until someone else mentions it..... kind of depends on the individual doing the writing.

    Off Topic a bit:.... i havent worked on a film, small or big, where it couldn't be broken down into 3 Acts... I just read a story outline given to me by a local actor who wrote it - and he wanted me to direct it... well... it was all over the place, and a complete mess, because it didn't follow a 3 Act structure - it was basically: a bunch of crap happened with no eb and flow, no rising action, no real conclusion... crap happened, and it was over... so i and my writing partner had to break it to the guy that his story was a mess lol, or "batsh*t crazy" as we told him since he begged an honest answer.... but i told him if you rearrange some of the events that take place, it could work... but he had stuff that should've been during the climax at the very beginning and etc... it was a mess lol...
  • Posts: 2,058
    FourDot wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    haserot wrote: »
    Act 3 is traditionally the shortest act of any story, as it really houses the resolution and conclusion to the story.... all of this happens once they return to London in the script.

    ACT 1 - PTS thru the scene of Bond at his flat.

    ACT 2 - Rome thru Escaping Oberhauser's Lair

    ACT 3 - London thru end of the film.
    According to the leaks some studio executives were very disappointed with the 3rd act, which they put right after the train fight. Just sayin'.

    Which would probably support haserot's argument.
    No. The executives have the Bentley scene in the desert and everything going on at the lair as part of the third act, not second.

    "Throughout the rounds of notes we saw, executives seemed mostly happy with the movie's first two acts (spoilers ahead, if you care): Bond, having destroyed part of Mexico City on a rogue operation, and facing forced retirement as MI-6 merges with its sister agency MI-5, escapes across Europe on a mission posthumously assigned to him by his late boss, M (played by Judi Dench). He seduces the wife (Monica Bellucci) of a man he assassinated, and, using information from her, attends a meeting of a sinister group of masked terrorists led by a man who knows Bond from his past. Meanwhile, Bond's current boss, M (Ralph Fiennes), battles his likely successor and the head of MI-5, C (Andrew Scott), over the future of an intelligence sharing program called Nine Eyes. Bond witnesses the death of Mr. White, a villain from Casino Royale, and finds White's daughter Madeiline Swann (Lea Seydoux) in Austria. The pair head to Morocco, get drunk, screw, have stilted conversations, take a train to the desert, and kill a henchman named Mr. Hinx (Dave Bautista).

    In two rounds of studio notes and dozens of emails critiquing the script, executives at Sony and MGM agree that the film is generally good up to around this point."

    http://defamer.gawker.com/new-bond-script-leaks-execs-scrambling-to-fix-awful-en-1670479885
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    Posts: 4,168
    Zekidk wrote: »
    FourDot wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    haserot wrote: »
    Act 3 is traditionally the shortest act of any story, as it really houses the resolution and conclusion to the story.... all of this happens once they return to London in the script.

    ACT 1 - PTS thru the scene of Bond at his flat.

    ACT 2 - Rome thru Escaping Oberhauser's Lair

    ACT 3 - London thru end of the film.
    According to the leaks some studio executives were very disappointed with the 3rd act, which they put right after the train fight. Just sayin'.

    Which would probably support haserot's argument.
    No. The executives have the Bentley scene in the desert and everything going on at the lair as part of the third act, not second.

    "Throughout the rounds of notes we saw, executives seemed mostly happy with the movie's first two acts (spoilers ahead, if you care): Bond, having destroyed part of Mexico City on a rogue operation, and facing forced retirement as MI-6 merges with its sister agency MI-5, escapes across Europe on a mission posthumously assigned to him by his late boss, M (played by Judi Dench). He seduces the wife (Monica Bellucci) of a man he assassinated, and, using information from her, attends a meeting of a sinister group of masked terrorists led by a man who knows Bond from his past. Meanwhile, Bond's current boss, M (Ralph Fiennes), battles his likely successor and the head of MI-5, C (Andrew Scott), over the future of an intelligence sharing program called Nine Eyes. Bond witnesses the death of Mr. White, a villain from Casino Royale, and finds White's daughter Madeiline Swann (Lea Seydoux) in Austria. The pair head to Morocco, get drunk, screw, have stilted conversations, take a train to the desert, and kill a henchman named Mr. Hinx (Dave Bautista).

    In two rounds of studio notes and dozens of emails critiquing the script, executives at Sony and MGM agree that the film is generally good up to around this point."

    http://defamer.gawker.com/new-bond-script-leaks-execs-scrambling-to-fix-awful-en-1670479885

    but there is still major scenes a big action set piece after all of this once they get back to London. - that is the 3rd Act.

    the part after the train and where we meet the villain is still around halfway through the film - that is not the 3rd Act, that is still the second... that would be like saying Silva's introduction and capture is the beginning of the 3rd act for SF... the third act of SF doesn't start until they get to Skyfall Lodge...
  • Posts: 2,058
    haserot wrote: »
    the part after the train and where we meet the villain is still around halfway through the film
    Scene 143 of 203 " halfway through"?
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,168
    based on the Oct draft... driving to the lair and meeting Oberhauser happens between pages 95 - 98 of a 145 page script... and the rule of the thumb with scripts is 1 page equals 1 minute.. so there is roughly still 45ish minutes to go in the film after they meet Oberhauser..... yes, that is still the 2nd act.... the 3rd act (according to my draft) wouldn't begin until everyone's back in London around page 114.

    the 3 acts are not 3 equal parts in size... 1st and 3rd acts are typically the smallest - because one introduces the plot, the other one resolves it... and there is no resolution going on during the meeting of Oberhauser.
  • Posts: 112
    Zekidk wrote: »
    No. The executives have the Bentley scene in the desert and everything going on at the lair as part of the third act, not second.

    More a comment on film execs understanding of film structure. An admittedly backhanded, limp joke.
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    Posts: 4,168
    FourDot wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    No. The executives have the Bentley scene in the desert and everything going on at the lair as part of the third act, not second.

    More a comment on film execs understanding of film structure. An admittedly backhanded, limp joke.

    lol i was going to say something similar..
  • Am I the only one who finds this argument slightly silly? :)
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,168
    Am I the only one who finds this argument slightly silly? :)

    quite lol.... personally i could care less.... and i dont think it's really an argument anyway... all that matters is whatever changes were made, were made - kind of pointless to doddle over what act in the script it happens in lol.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,119
    At least there is agreement on when the first act begins :D
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 203
    after reading the Dec 1st revision, i am excited about SP. one thing that is a huge dissapointment is bond not being on skiis? imagine if he was on skiis weaving in and out while being chased by the land rovers! what a missed opportunity ... many will be dissapointed! just look at the anticipation for a skii sequence in the inmdb boards! btw, i thought the 3rd act was good ... hopefully they made it excellent since then!
  • mcdonbb wrote: »
    At least there is agreement on when the first act begins :D
    Is it before or after the gunbarrel? :-P

  • It turns out this is the place to be to get your hands on the leaked script. Numerous others boards say Mi6Community is the place to go for the leaked script.

    I suppose the reason the moderators are keeping this thread open is to encourage new membership. That's capitalism I guess.

    For me the most disconcerting thing about these leaks is the issues the script had in development and how Mendes apparently tried to leave the project in the middle of last year. Not cool. I'm fearful for this film, especially if the director has no faith in it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 20,492
    It turns out this is the place to be to get your hands on the leaked script. Numerous others boards say Mi6Community is the place to go for the leaked script.

    I suppose the reason the moderators are keeping this thread open is to encourage new membership. That's capitalism I guess.

    For me the most disconcerting thing about these leaks is the issues the script had in development and how Mendes apparently tried to leave the project in the middle of last year. Not cool. I'm fearful for this film, especially if the director has no faith in it.

    I was not aware this was the place to get the script. I personally do not have it and believe the moderators are not allowing people to use this site to distribute the script.

    The moderators are allowing people to discuss the script on this thread, as they should. There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing it on here. One does not need to come on this thread if concerned about hearing leaked information. The thread is clearly described in the title.

    I'm confident this movie is going to be incredible based on the discussion I have read on here. I'm looking forward to it immensely.
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 1,754
    bondjames wrote: »
    It turns out this is the place to be to get your hands on the leaked script. Numerous others boards say Mi6Community is the place to go for the leaked script.

    I suppose the reason the moderators are keeping this thread open is to encourage new membership. That's capitalism I guess.

    For me the most disconcerting thing about these leaks is the issues the script had in development and how Mendes apparently tried to leave the project in the middle of last year. Not cool. I'm fearful for this film, especially if the director has no faith in it.

    I was not aware this was the place to get the script. I personally do not have it and believe the moderators are not allowing people to use this site to distribute the script.

    The moderators are allowing people to discuss the script on this thread, as they should. There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing it on here. One does not need to come on this thread if concerned about hearing leaked information. The thread is clearly described in the title.

    I'm confident this movie is going to be incredible based on the discussion I have read on here. I'm looking forward to it immensely.

    The moderators can tell people not to share it but the truth is they can't look into people's inboxes to see if they are. It's a paradoxical and hopeless situation.

    They can't police their policy.
  • Posts: 5,492
    You keep believing that Pierce2Daniel.
  • @Pierce2Daniel: Most movies go through many script changes before the final draft is complete. This happens all the time, and has in fact happened on a myriad of Bond films in the past - including some of the best ones. If we hadn't heard about any script problems, we'd never know better.

    On a side note, I've read the script - and it's good. I mean really good.
  • @Pierce2Daniel: Most movies go through many script changes before the final draft is complete. This happens all the time, and has in fact happened on a myriad of Bond films in the past - including some of the best ones. If we hadn't heard about any script problems, we'd never know better.

    On a side note, I've read the script - and it's good. I mean really good.

    A ton of material was excised from the screenplay of Casino Royale, IIRC, including some stuff on the balcony of the Casino where Vesper tells Bond about her father's death, and a rumoured extra half hour of love scenes between Bond and Vesper to further build their relationship. And none of us were never the wiser, so I agree completely.

    What did you like about the SPECTRE script?

  • I suppose the reason the moderators are keeping this thread open is to encourage new membership.

    They are keeping this thread open because they aren't fascists. You can't really say the same thing about the moderators of commanderbond...
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 2,058
    So...

    The action setpiece in Austria will involve the following vehicles:

    In this plane:
    solden_shoot_131214a.jpg
    ...Bond will be chasing this car:
    B62K3azIgAEgrQM.jpg
    (inside is Hinx and Madeleine)
    ....which is protected/flanked by two Land-rovers, which both crashes eventually:
    10903307_788561917904263_396993583_n.jpg

    It's gonna be wow.... just wow!

  • edited January 2015 Posts: 561
    Does anyone else think it would have been a cool idea to have the fate of Denbigh was an adaptation of the auction scene from TPOAL. Bond (Craig) could learn of Denbigh being a double agent and attends the auction to catch him in the act. Denbigh's at the auction, where SPECTRE agents intend to bid up the price of the item in order to pay Denbigh for his services. James Bond follows Denbigh into a room and kills Denbigh like he does in the script?

    I think it'd be a cool way to adapt TPOA properly. Obviously the Faberge would have to be changed due to Octopussy.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 2,603
    It turns out this is the place to be to get your hands on the leaked script. Numerous others boards say Mi6Community is the place to go for the leaked script.

    I suppose the reason the moderators are keeping this thread open is to encourage new membership. That's capitalism I guess.

    For me the most disconcerting thing about these leaks is the issues the script had in development and how Mendes apparently tried to leave the project in the middle of last year. Not cool. I'm fearful for this film, especially if the director has no faith in it.

    What is this about Mendes wanting to leave the project last year? First I've heard this, can someone explain?

    Are people just making up stories in the light of these email leaks and passing them off as part of the leaks we have had so far.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Who knows? Who cares? They've got a movie they're shooting now and trying their best to make the best bond film ever.
  • I had no idea neither, maybe it's bullshit.
  • Posts: 1,176
    Who knows? Who cares? They've got a movie they're shooting now and trying their best to make the best bond film ever.


    :-)
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