SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

1203204206208209224

Comments

  • "Die Another Day," "Tomorrow Never Dies" and "License to Kill" are among my least favorite Bond movie titles. "Spectre" is right down there with them. If we HAVE to have the words "kill" or "die" in the title (and I'd assert that we don't) then let's at least have something that sounds like Fleming could have used it (as with "Live and Let Die") -- something that plays with the expectations of language in a moderately witty or amusing matter. "A Killing Wage" (copyright 2019 by BSE, made it up right here & now to the best of my knowledge) or something like that.

    I suggested "Undertaker's Wind" earlier, for those who may not know, because Fleming used it twice, both times in novels set in Jamaica. It's even a chapter title in "Live And Let Die." And for those of you who may not know the genesis of the "Too Fast to Live, Too Young to Die" quote, here are the Eagles singing about "James Dean':
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Personally, I loved the title "Die Another Day", especially as it was uttered by Pierce in the movie. "Tomorrow Never Dies" was crap. "Tomorrow Never Lies" would have been wonderful. "License To Kill" was okay. All IMO, of course.
  • I think we're in agreement that "Tomorrow Never Lies" would have been a better title. How do folks feel about "License Revoked" as opposed to the more generic "License to Kill"?
  • So I've been trying to go spoiler free on Game of Thrones final season. I don't get HBO, but binged on the series over the last several months, checking the DVDs out of the library. Hoped to be able to go spoiler free until Season 8 was out on DVD as well. Sorry, can't be done if you're anywhere near the internet. News boards are spilling the info of each beheading or shacking up every Monday morning, just as if this were Real News and spoiler warnings were totally unheard-of. I guess my point here is: Be glad the world of Bond fandom is relatively civilized. Out there in GoT-land, it's a wolf-eat-dragon world!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,370
    So I've been trying to go spoiler free on Game of Thrones final season. I don't get HBO, but binged on the series over the last several months, checking the DVDs out of the library. Hoped to be able to go spoiler free until Season 8 was out on DVD as well. Sorry, can't be done if you're anywhere near the internet. News boards are spilling the info of each beheading or shacking up every Monday morning, just as if this were Real News and spoiler warnings were totally unheard-of. I guess my point here is: Be glad the world of Bond fandom is relatively civilized. Out there in GoT-land, it's a wolf-eat-dragon world!

    I found it quite odd that lots of people seemed to have some respect in not spoiling that new Avengers installment for everyone, then I wake up this morning and see blatant Game of Thrones spoilers, just as you said, plastered everywhere across news sites as if they were actual happenings last night and not a product of a television show.

    But yes, sadly in today's day and age, you either need to see a new episode/film as soon as it drops, or avoid the Internet in its entirety, lest you be spoiled over and over.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,102
    SPECTRE was a great title IMO I just felt the film totally wasted the potential of the title.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    So I've been trying to go spoiler free on Game of Thrones final season. I don't get HBO, but binged on the series over the last several months, checking the DVDs out of the library. Hoped to be able to go spoiler free until Season 8 was out on DVD as well. Sorry, can't be done if you're anywhere near the internet. News boards are spilling the info of each beheading or shacking up every Monday morning, just as if this were Real News and spoiler warnings were totally unheard-of. I guess my point here is: Be glad the world of Bond fandom is relatively civilized. Out there in GoT-land, it's a wolf-eat-dragon world!

    I found it quite odd that lots of people seemed to have some respect in not spoiling that new Avengers installment for everyone, then I wake up this morning and see blatant Game of Thrones spoilers, just as you said, plastered everywhere across news sites as if they were actual happenings last night and not a product of a television show.

    But yes, sadly in today's day and age, you either need to see a new episode/film as soon as it drops, or avoid the Internet in its entirety, lest you be spoiled over and over.

    I suspect that in the case of Avengers, there's an expectation that, hey! It's a comic book movie. Half the universe died at the end of the last one, most of the universe will be back at the end of this one. They may need to replace an actor or three, so maybe there'll be a new guy in the Iron Man or Captain America costume (just guessing here, I haven't seen the movie yet!) but still, the end of this one will just hit the reset button and the Marvel Universe will more or less be back to square one.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,946
    I will watch the first trailer and hope it is not loaded with any crucial spoiler.
    I don't know those lyrics, @CommanderRoss, offhand. What are them from?



    This is the long version, the song really starts 1:30 minute in.

    Tomorrow Never Lies would've been far more enticing. I can't for the life of me understand why they didn't use that one. For me Licence Revoked sounds more British. It's more subtle then the 'in your face''Kill'.
    The Undertaker's Wind for sure brings me back to the novels immediately. Perhaps that's why I'm a bit reluctand to embrace it as a film title. I like the folklore behind it and I'm not sure that would be translateable to the silver screen.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2019 Posts: 12,459
    Just to say (even on this Bond thread), I LOVED End Game!! OMG, it was more than I expected and did not disappoint - stunning, so very well executed, moving, great acting, good script, and I am very happy with it. Just saw it yesterday. Some big moments for sure, and I think the writers really put this together extremely well. I applaud everybody involved with this film.

    As some of you know, I am not into comics and did not read ever read them. I have not seen all the superhero films, but I loved Iron Man (all of them), Avengers, Capt. America, Winter Solider, Infinity War. That's it. Never seen X Men or Cap. Marvel or others. I heard Guardians of the Galaxy was fun and may check that out later. But End Game - I feel they told the story they needed to tell, took their time but it did not drag for me, and I am so glad I saw this in deluxe theater. It was an amazing experience. No spoilers from me here. Those of you who know the characters so well from the comics will undoubtedly have a variety of views, but just to say my experience with End Game was outstanding.

    About this theater (@Creasy47 can skip this part as I have been chatting with him privately about this) ... I am so damn lucky. It's awesome! Part of huge complex, but set to the side, with own private, quiet lounge. Doors to theater are thru the lounge. It's got tiered rows, so each row has an unobstructed view of the screen. Huge, comfy recliner chair (full tilt), wide area for drink and snacks (oh and drink is free and very large; next time it will be wine for me), slippers, and great sound. Also the kids aren't there - they apparently go to the regular style theater. So basically, it was like I was having a private viewing in this incredibly comfortable seat with perfect view and sound. I saw Spectre here and will see Bond 25 here. I look forward to John Wick III here in a few weeks. It's the best theater experience I've ever had and wherever I live in the world, I wish I could clone it. ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Thanks for that, @CommanderRoss. I think they used Sheryl Crow's song for TND simply because she was very popular at that moment. EON does that.

    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs you are right the Game of Thrones spoilers are everywhere, blatant and in headlines. I have not read any of the books or even seen one episode. I tried the first book, but (even though I can get into epics and historical fiction, some fantasy sci-fi) I didn't take to it. I don't mind the spoilers for me, therefore. I may check out the series later on dvd but highly doubt I'll start from scratch and go all the way through. For fans, it is nuts: how can you possibly avoid spoilers? I don't think so.
    I really dislike the total disregard and disrespect shown to fans (of any film or tv show) regarding spoilers these days.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,946
    @4EverBonded well I do like Sheryl's song, allthouh I'm probably the only one on these boards, and I'd never expect EON to choose Metallica, but I thought it fitted the discussion ;-)

    The lyrics would work with a Fiona Volpe type of character too ...


    Perhaps the lady and I should go to End Game then. Haven't been to a cinema in ages.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2019 Posts: 12,459
    Oh give End Game a try. It's wonderful. It's got serious moments, moving moments, too. Overall, a real treat for me.

    I like the song TND okay, but I do think Surrender is better and David had started working it into the score. Sigh ... not a huge deal for me. TND is one of my favorite Bond films. Pierce was fully a strong Bond in that one (though I love GE, too). I just think his Bond was even better in TND.

    I've never listened to Metallica, actually. I know SirHenry would want to slap me for that. haha!;)

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    I like the song TND okay, but I do think Surrender is better and David had started working it into the score. Sigh ... not a huge deal for me. TND is one of my favorite Bond films. Pierce was fully a strong Bond in that one (though I love GE, too). I just think his Bond was even better in TND.
    I concur!
    Wow, I use that Q line way too much... ;)

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,946
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think that Pierce himself got better in the role with each film.

    I think so too. And that makes DAD such a difficult film, as I had high expectations, thinking it would be a hard and gripping film. After all, Lee Tamahori had made 'What Becomes of the Broken Hearted', a film Ive seen only a few times but I remember vividly. And it started off quite well. Bond beeing captured, tortured....walked onto the bridge in front of a firing squad....

    And then it starts to slide, and slide and slide.

    A five-year-old's vision on Bond. But then again, it didn't take long for Tamahori to loose his senses completely it seems.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I like Pierce in DAD, yes.
    The film's take becomes so schizoid, veering one way then another, with shots of stupidity thrown in for good measure. Hate the title song, but if the film was good that matters not at all.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,567
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I hate the reasoning behind the change, but I prefer LICENCE TO KILL. It’s vintage Bond and vintage Fleming. It resonates and sounds cool as all Hell. LICENCE REVOKED feels clunky to me.

    I'm a bit the other way on this. I prefer Licence Revoked possibly because it reflects what actually happens in the movie. And I can imagine Fleming using it, if only for a short story.

    Licence To Kill sounds to me like they couldn't be bothered to think of anything more original.
  • edited May 2019 Posts: 3,564
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Originality, or lack of, doesn't bother me. Strong and apt are my concerns.

    It's not like Fleming never repeated himself...still, originality gets plenty of points in my score book. I'd have preferred the less cliched "...Revoked." If somebody ever suggests "Shaken Not Stirred" as a Bond film title, I hope Barbara and/or Michael knocks him on the noggin with a bottle of Siamese vodka.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,946
    Did any of you know this:
    http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20180703-sean-connery-co-wrote-a-bond-film-that-was-never-made
    ?
    Do you think there was a spy getting the ideas from McClory and co to EON for TSWLM?
  • Yes, I was aware of McClory's "Warhead" -- but this is an entertaining read nonetheless. Thanks, @CommanderRoss.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,370
    I know it's not terribly unique, but I do love that idea of using a map coordinate as a title.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I was never aware of the details of McClory or any hidden story. I know SirHenry knew all the background on McClory for sure (he couldn't stand him).
  • Some people blame McClory's lawsuit for the stress that brought on Fleming's stroke(s). I think there's really no way of knowing on that topic...but I do think (A) Fleming should have been a bit smarter in laying out the legal parameters of his collaboration with both McClory & Whittingham, and (B) McClory's claims for what he thought he was due were outrageous, and his attempts to screw EON out of the property they had done so much to build equally egregious. SirHenry's disdain for McClory was, in my opinion, well founded. The story was never exactly "hidden," show biz journalism reported on it every step of the way, and fan journalism even more so once that became a "thing."
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,946
    Well I knew most of it, but 'Warhead' and TSWLM having so much in common was new to me. I wonder what happened there. I share SirHenry's disdain for McClory, allthough he did bring quite a bit of ideas to Bond. It's a pity he was so greedy. He could've been famous for collaborting, instead of a destructive force.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited May 2019 Posts: 12,459
    Aha! I just discovered the perfect lead up Bondathon path for me, in prep for Bond 25.
    Thanks to reading this website's write up of the new updated edition of Some Kind Of Hero, I realized that is perfect! I will watch the films with that book as my companion piece. I do LOVE this book. It's been more than a year since I looked through it. Each film is dealt with separately, with great detail and background stories, very informative. So I'll be going in the order of that book - read that chapter first, then watch the film. That is perfect for me, and I can take my time with it. @royale65 thank you again for giving me this outstanding book as a gift a few years ago.

    The newly updated version includes Spectre. I don't feel I need to get that ... now if they had waited till it included Bond25, that one I would probably buy.

    I know some of you have this book. What do you think of my idea? It certainly will be a fresh approach for me for viewing the films and a great lead up to Bond 25. B-)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Yes, I really do. I also have some other ways to see the films and will have time to do other approaches as well.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,721
    That's a good way to do it @Birdleson - I believe one of the Bond podcasts I listen to reviewed the films in that order.

    I haven't watched a Bond film in a couple of months...I had a look over the Bond movie meter and I've watched only seven this year. Plan to get through all of them this calendar year.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,946
    Anybody already did one in the novel order? I can't do any for a lack of time, would love to do one again.
  • I have also watched the films in novel order (while reading the novels at the same time.) I think @Birdleson and I both gave reviews of the novels as well -- it may have even been in this thread a few years back.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,946
    cool. would love to catch up on that. Probably in a year or two things will slow down a bit.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited May 2019 Posts: 12,459
    Ok, so here is what I am going to do on this thread. B-)
    All the James Bond films so far ... another look as we head to Bond 25 ~

    I'm going to write up my personal look at each Bond film and post my main observations here (and I will try to be relatively brief; this will not be a full review).

    However, what makes this different - and not just my own take on the films - are the following two additions I will include with my look at every Bond film:

    1) A few salient points on the film from the excellent Bond book, Some Kind of Hero. I'll be reading the chapter about the film during the same week I watch the film. I'll include quotes from it - what I feel are interesting back stories and other info.

    2) I will also include some observations made by Sir Henry in the past about the film, and I'll include a link to the exact page on this thread to find his review in full. That makes it easy for you to access it. Those were done a few years ago but also contain tons of interesting info on the films and make for very worthwhile reading.

    We welcome all your participation as we go through each Bond film. Your thoughts, facts you can share, personal stories are great! (Your 1st experience seeing the film, etc.) Keep in mind, though, that this time, on this thread, is not a place for a full review of the film (I'll have to keep reminding us of that). Other threads have full reviews.

    We especially welcome our "Originals" - the older Bond fans, who saw their first Bond film starring Sean Connery, in a theater during its initial release. There are still a handful of us here. This thread is the home for older fans ... I like to say "vintage" or "seasoned" Bond fans. We can share so much from our experiences (and if our opinions have changed over the years, etc.)

    ALL members are welcome to comment here, even if not an "Original" or older fan. Please do chime in - just keep with the spirit and tone of this thread. No spam, no nasty snark or sniping at others' opinions; humor and personal stories are very much enjoyed; thoughtful appraisals and comments are appreciated.

    I will begin this Bondathon journey this coming weekend. I hope that this 3-tiered, layered approach will bring a lot of enjoyable reading to our members here.


    To be clear, this will not be a full review, nor just a comparison of films.

    This Bondathon look at the films from me aims to be:


    ~ a fresh look at each film, with my own main points and observations (not a review, just my take and what I found interesting)

    ~ quotes from the book Some Kind of Hero, giving background stories; interesting info

    ~ quotes from Sir Henry's past excellent write-ups of each film, including the link to the page on this thread so you can read all the trivia, background info, facts he included (as well as his review). From there you can read other members' reviews and comments as well.

    Approximately 3 Bond films a month; I am flexible, though.

    NOTE: As we get genuine, confirmed news about Bond 25 ... this thread still stays 100% SPOILER-FREE. No mentioning of anything except the title. ;) Title is fine. When news breaks we will be on other threads reading and discussing Bond 25 news - or not. Personal choice. But we won't chat about Bond 25 on here, except I think a brief discussion of the title; that's quite all right.

    So here we go ... today is Thursday morning as I type this. I'll be posting on Sunday, June 2nd and I hope you'll join us here. And yes, we will go chronologically, beginning with the fabulous debut of this remarkable film series: DR. NO B-)

Sign In or Register to comment.